Body modding, custom tuning and GT5...

It'd depend on the track, it'd hammer one round a fast track like Rockingham speedway, but an F1 will no doubt about it slaughter the 12 round any and all bands you have to slow down for. I suppose if you took them to Monza but removed all the chicanes the 12 could win, but only without thoes chicanes would it be remotely possible due to the long straights and high speed sections.
 
live4speed
It'd depend on the track, it'd hammer one round a fast track like Rockingham speedway, but an F1 will no doubt about it slaughter the 12 round any and all bands you have to slow down for. I suppose if you took them to Monza but removed all the chicanes the 12 could win, but only without thoes chicanes would it be remotely possible due to the long straights and high speed sections.
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Sounds more like it. The 12's top speed is at least 20MPH more than an F1.
 
The 12 will out accelerate an F1 car as well, exept to 60, it'll beat an F1 car to 200, so will the Veyron.
 
live4speed
The 12 will out accelerate an F1 car as well, exept to 60, it'll beat an F1 car to 200, so will the Veyron.
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ummm... got any performance numbers to back that up?...
also, nothing on this earth will outhandle an F1 car... unless indy or cart does... but thats it, nothing else, cept maybe a space shuttle or other jetcraft
 
An Indy car or Kart won't out handle an F1 car, however a Go-Kart will ;) but out of proper cars, nothing will I know thats what you meant. As for F1 cars acceleration figures, you can only go off what is said off the record or do your own timing. It has been said by journalists that the Veyron will out accelerate an F1 car, obviousely the F1 teams never give away their figures but they do hit 60 in 2-2.5 seconds depending on the track and the conditions and the Veyron will hit 60 in 2.5 and 100mph in around 5 seconds and 200mph in around 18. F1 cars will keep ahead (again this is what I've heared so it might not be completely correct) upto about 130-140mph and then they will lose the lead they got from the 0-60 and 60-100 dash. Now bear in mind that the Speed 12 is supposedly faster than even the veyron in a straight line and while it may or may not be true regarding the acceleration (though I don't see how an F1 car will keep up with either a Veyron or Speed 12 over 150mph myself) theres not a huge difference across the board barring the speed 12's 0-60 which is a whole second slower than the Veyrons due to the differential being set for rolling starts.
 
When did the speed 12 become anything more than a high hp speeding bullet? All this talk of these high powered monsters, Veyron-another pointless car, guess it was built to make production car land speed records or something. When I first saw the speed 12 waay back when, I thought it was a race car or something and ugly to boot. Now I heard of theoretical top speeds around 250mph, with 805bhp it never made it, officially.

So I would like to see some links to this new information on this new SP12.
 
Everyone who's driven the car has raved on about it you can even get a feel of the speeds from the in car video that was done of it racing around Silverstone (yes I'm talking about the road car), I've spoken to the owner of the car online a couple of times. I was going to go and meet him and get some info off him once but I couldn't make it. I don't know when the Speed 12 was ever JUST a straight line performer, it's always supposedly been good on the track, now it's been driven by auto journaliss (John Barker is the one from Evo) who have confirmed that it is a stupidly good car, he did this driving it on worn tyres round Silverstone.

Don't forget that this car can produce THE SAME ammount of downforce front AND back as the Speed 12 GTS racer they entered in the FIA GT championship, thats a hell of a lot more than pretty much all it's rivals barring the Gumpert Apollo. Thats the same levels of downforce that Aston Martin DBR9's and Cheverolet C6R's that raced at LeMans and in the ALMS, that a lot, lot more than the Ferrari Enzo, Maserati MC12, Saleen S7 ect and we all know downforce glues a car to the road improving turning speeds and stability. It's this downforce thats reduced the cars top speed which I'll mention in after this point about the cars power.

The Speed 12 has never had 800bhp, 805bhp or 799bhp, all figures published by magazines but TVR never said, "this car has xxx bhp" for a long time, and when they did it was what the car has always had. It's always had 960 or 880 depeding on the cams fitted. It's theoretical top speed was over 250mph, quite a bit over, but as it is, it's not getting much over 230mph even though it now has more power, due to the extra downforce they've given the car. If you want info on the Speed 12, buy May 2005 edition of Evo magazine, where they claim it feels like the fastest car they've ever driven and that was with the ECU mapped the same as the race cars limiting power further to 770bhp and a 5750rpm limiter which they didn't realise until late in the run. Peak power comes in at 7250rpm if you were interested.

Since then the car has been back at TVR's garages and the mechanics did some work on the engine to make it run smoother with the full 960bhp, however while they were at it they also worked on a couple of other parts of the engine including the ECU and have boosted power to a currently unkown figure above the 960bhp it originally had. You want proof about this new info, do a serach for it, read up on the car. Theres a lot of info unavailable unless you ask the owner but all the fixed stats I've given are spot on and a quick search will present you with them.

Don't get into a debate with me over the Speed 12, I know more about the car than the average knowlagable car enthusiast, it's probably the only car in the world I'd claim that about, and in this case, I don't doubt it.
 
That's alot of info on the speed 12 that I've never even heard about. It's realistic that it could out perform an F1 in the top speed/ long windy roads department.

Surprising to me, I just thought it was an expensive version of the speed six, equipped with a monstrous powerplant.

And we're a little off-topic, not to be a stickler, or anything.
 
Nice set of info there Live, I came across some info about the speed 12 and the cerbera speed 12. While I didn't see much about the car overall performance, but I do know it didn't make the LM, it look nice in race trim the original speed 12. Which speed 12 are you talking about that can generate high downforce, I think you may mean one with a rear wing attached, if it's not then that is really amazing. I have never seen nor read any rave reviews about the TVR speed 12 and track worthiness, as a matter of fact the Speed 12 has all but dissappeared.

When mags talk about supercars with great looks and performance, you'd hear Enzo, Carrera, S7, Maclaren...I have not once heard of the speed 12 in that light. I would really like to know where you have gotten your information, because it's scarce and old info laying around online, latest numbers on the Cebera speed 12 were 880bhp and it was at some unveiling in GB when GT4 was unveiled. And I did happen to see a Cerbera Speed 12 with a body kit on it, that looked real nice.

I'll look for it again, and post it when i get it. L4S, hook me up with that info.

EDIT
Found the official site Speed 12 site
 
Well theres only one road going Cerbera Speed 12, it originally had no wing on the back but still generated high levels of downforce from the underbody aerodynamics that it used, the same underbody work as the race cars. What happened TVR sold the first Cerbera Speed 12 to a member of the Prodigy, after the car was recalled from production because it was deemed unusable on the roads because it was just too fast (and it was Peter Wheeler who said that) TVR bought the car back at that time there were no other Speed 12's completed barring two GTS spec race cars that competed in the FIA GT championship, your right that they never went to LeMans, that was because there was never 25 or more road going examples of the 12 sold which you need to have to race at LeMans.

While all that was going the two GTS spec race cars were winning most of the races they entered and finished without technical difficulties. The team eventually got desperate for parts and since it was near the end of the last season they stripped the only road car and used what was in that to finnish the season. By the the time the season was over, the car had as Evo put it, "attained almost mythical status". The at that time TVR owner, Peter Wheeler had the road car re-built, but they used the race cars body, mainly because the original one had been damaged, but also because it had the benefit of improving the cars performance even further.

So now the only Speed 12 in existence looks like the GTS racers with a numberplate and has the same downforce as them only more power. Talking of power, at the time of the GT4 lauch that was before the Evo article was run, then it was running the "soft" cams and producing 880Bhp, with the "lumpy" cams it produced 960bhp. TVR got the 960Bhp figure by testing each bank of the V12 seperately, they had to do that because it broke the input shaft on the engine dyno (which was rated to 100lb/ft torque) and it climbed out of all the rolling roads it was put in. Since then it's been worked on by TVR to run the lumpy cams smoother, but they did some extra work as well which has resulted in a power boost, but as I said, the figure is unknown.

That site has loads of info on it, but it's not used anymore. I get most of my info direct from the owner but if you check the forums even though no one posts in them anymore theres still lots of info from him. Theres alos an in-car video clip of the owner (Mr G as he's called in magazines) driving round Silverstone called Red Rain, click on News then on the side theres a topic called Red rain at Silverston, click that, the vid's small but you can hear how loud the beat is.

One last point, you don't hear about the 12 in magazines because it ISN'T the definitive supercar, it's a single road going example, it's like you don't hear about the Dauer 962, everyone who knows about the car knows it can do over 250mph and will whoop an Enzo in a race, but it's just too low volume. It doesn't class as a production car, so anything it does doesn't go down in history. They've also rarely been tested, or driven by anyone, the test in Evo was from memory, the second time the Speed 12 was driven by a journalist. The first was in TopGear magazine a few years back.
 
crimson_menace
And we're a little off-topic, not to be a stickler, or anything.
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I apologise, my fault, I tend to rabbit on a bit about TVR's :lol:.
 
I can see some body stuff.
Like spoilers, diffusers, etc.
But full on body kit... eh
Only way I think anyone would accept that is if it's like you buy a mustang, and you can goto saleen in the village and buy the body parts from saleen you want. Or Roush, steeda, etc...
As for neons, I think not.
But stuff like hood pins, chin spoilers, etc stuff that has function, hey it's cool with me.
And painting cars would be nice.
And logos is kinda pushing it, but real race cars have em so why not?
Look at grand-am, d1gp,and other forms of racing.
These cars have sponsors, and show it.
So body mods are okay, but only if tastefull and functional.
THings like cowl hoods and fiber glass body's should be in too.
Look at the drag racing scene.
Alot of guys run chevelles or Novas and they have a cowl hood and they don't look like arse.
And heck lets even paint or chrome the rims.
Not like outrageos colors.
But have the shades of chrome that are really out there. And a black and a white option for rims. Plenty of non-ricers have painted rims...
Lastly here are rims to back up my opinions so you can see what I mean:

http://photos.e46fanatics.com/data/500/11842new1.jpg
(car is supercharged, makes about 385 rwhp)

http://www.casadenico.net/albums/Jeffs-Car/Picture_003.sized.jpg
(not sure on mods, but it's a fricken cobra, def not rice)

http://www.netcarshow.com/saleen/2006-ford_mustang_s281_scenic_roof/1024x768/wallpaper_04.jpg
(saleen mustang, again, no rice, but there is a body kit...)

here are a few race cars:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/images/stoptech_tms_m3_2.jpg
http://www.speedquestracing.com/i/cars/cal200.jpg
http://www.grandamerican.com/CONTENT/Photos/Gallery/2005/mspt race 6 lg.jpg

In the racing pics I tried to stay away from the stangs, but they did very well in thier first season so they are all over the place in the pics.
But you get my idea.
Either feature those cars, or let us make them!
Like when you buy the part, you go into the paint shop and that company's logo is there in a few versions for you to use.
I think it would be pretty cool.
 
why do we care about a car that never saw production? why, when the only one that exists, is modified, why do we care? since it's been modified, anything, anybody ever says about its original version doesnt matter, as we can't see it or test it... so why do we care? unless TVR is going to say exactly what it could do... and even then, we'd have to ask, why didnt they say or do road-tests before? once again, this car is unimportant, as it no longer exists... the only one's modified.... modifi... mod... mo...................it's gone now
 
why no outrageous colors? people can use any color they want in real-life, if they build their own race-car... there's no logical reason I cant paint a miata hot-pink if I want, or make a lime-green truck... with any stickers, or sponsers I can get
 
The Speed 12 was tested before it was re-built by TopGear magazine, also the fact the car was re-built from the ground up made the current Speed 12 a new car, it does not go down as modified, the recent work on the engine for the cams is work that had been planned before the car was sold and put up for sale. Also the fact that the Speed 12 ended up one off means the factory can do whatever they like with it and it won't class as a modified car regardless of the ground up re-build or not.

As for caring, why do people care about any car, why do people care about the Dauer 962, thats not a production car but you see people raving on about it in forum topics about that car. Why do people rave on about the Enzo, so what if thee was more than one built, theres still so few theres not much chance of anyone seeing one outside of a show let alone driving one. I've been closer to the Speed 12 than I've been to an Enzo, and I've stood a couple of feet from an Enzo. The Speed 12 was set to be the best value performance car ever, 250mph, 960bhp and £166k price tag. It didn't not go into production because no-one wanted one, TVR had deposits for nearly every model they planned to make of it, but Wheeler didn't want such a powerful car on the streets after driving it himself. What the Speed 12 did, was make people realise that TVR were serious competition for the likes of Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, even the McLaren F1 (which was what the 12 was set to beat) and even though it never saw production, the one car that was built, has left no doubt in peoples minds that have been close to it, or driven it, that it certainly is capable of what it was intended to do.
 
The Dauer 962 is famous because of it's Lemans appearances, and Stephan Bellof laying down the fastest lap on the Nürburgring in the Porsche/Dauer 962. The Speed 12 has done what exactly, aside from list hp figure and theoretical numbers. It's not a completely bad car, but there are no official numbers that can be attached to this car.

Is Wheeler the owner of TVR? I what you say is true, then that guy is part idiot. I'm sorry but if you built a car out of lightweight parts and then sturr an 800+ hp engine in it, do you somehow expect it to not be ridiculously powerful for public roads? Soo stupid his logic is.

It didn't not go into production because no-one wanted one
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There is something to be said about that statement, this may be the car that goes down in history as the super car that could...theoretically. While it was in FIA, it's power was reduced to 600bhp. It was winning, but winning usually is a good thing and would mean money coming in and demand for the road going model. Not sure what happened.

I understand your love for the car and why you defend it, but even you can admit that of all the claims made, which of them have been substantiated officially and not based on what TVR states.
 
Wheeler used to own TVR, it wasn't that he suddenly decided that 960bhp was too much, it was that the delivery of the power was so strong. He basically changed his mind after driving the car, it was a great idea for a car, then the first one was built and he drove it and he said it scared the **** out of him and he cahnged his mind about the car. It's not stupid logic and the Speed 12 wasn't a mistake because it raised peoples awareness of TVR no-end.

As for the claims, all the actualy numbers and everything I posted in the last few posts are true, they're facts unless otherwise stated and everything TVR said about the car that was later confirmed was either correct or TVR understated it much like they do most of their cars. Then theres the 250mph top speed, it could theoretically do it, but it's not been taken anywhere a car can go that fast, without the rear wing and front splitter I don't doubt it'll hit it. The 0-60 is 3.5 seconds, the owner won't give any dead figures out yet because of the Evo article but he knows what it can do upto certain speeds, he's had it tested himself and the words "faster than the Veyron" have been spoken more than once but actualy numbers won't be shouted around until after the Evo test.

I'm currently waiting to hear about the next Evo test and it's appearence on a UK TV car show ie TopGear or Fifth Gear, it has to be one or the other since theres no other UK TV car shows. Evo are doing a full performance test of the car soon, so that should prove to be very interesting.

With regards to the Dauer comment, what you said was true, but I was thinking more along the lines that a car appeals to an individual, you either like it or not, that can be regardless of price, numbers built, history, performance ect, most people like a certain car for reasons hard to explain, it just appeals to them. The Speed 12 just really appeals to me and the fact it's perfomance is blatantly astounding does it for me even more despite not having hard figures, I'm a self professed TVR nut though.
 
MY OPINION

If it's in initial d, then it's okay :)
For example when the RX7 got the body upgrades, that was cool. Not only did it look better, but the body added racing value to the car.
 
what would make it faster than a Veyron? is it geared to 250? what are it's gear ratios? and I've seen an Enzo... in Sarasota, FL - Driving, my brothers seen it quite a few times also... I can easily find out what an Enzo can do 0-60- 0-100 -1/4 mile- top speed - 100-0 -60-0 -skidpad G's -slalom speed....etc what do I have for a TVR? a theoretical speed ( its crap till its verified) and a slow 0-60 time... for 900hp on a car supposed to be faster than a Veyron... that aint looking too good
 
Not top speed, it's got that huge wing now creating too much drag. It's top speed was theoretically over 250 without the wing but currently they reckon about 235mph. It's faster in acceleration, not counting the 0-60 which is simply down to the cars differential, the Speed 12 has hit 200mph in under 20 seconds that is fact, again though, my point here is that all this info comes from people that have driven the car, I can get the gear ratio's for you but it'll have to be another time because I'm a: heavily hung over right now and b: not at home. Theres little point in continuing to debate over it, I've seen the Speed 12, I have a good idea what it's capable of, but your not willing to accept facts from people driving the car without recording the specific figures which is fair enough for someone that doesn't know much about the car in the first place. When Evo do their full performance test I'll send you a pm with the article in it.
 
I hate extravagant tuner body kits and jellybean rear spoilers. I do think it is a good idea to add more race car style rear spoilers and front chin spoilers and splitters. I think they should move depending on their downforce settings. Bringing back race car conversions from GT2 would be cool. Or maybe you could add numbers and sponsors to a car to make it look like a race car. But no retarded body kits. No spinner rims, no stupid fad stuff. I think they should get rid of trucks and SUVs. Nobody even races them.
 
keef
I hate extravagant tuner body kits and jellybean rear spoilers. I do think it is a good idea to add more race car style rear spoilers and front chin spoilers and splitters. I think they should move depending on their downforce settings. Bringing back race car conversions from GT2 would be cool. Or maybe you could add numbers and sponsors to a car to make it look like a race car. But no retarded body kits. No spinner rims, no stupid fad stuff. I think they should get rid of trucks and SUVs. Nobody even races them.
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while I agree with you, 5 people will scream now about the truck/suv comment
and I must say, I dont mind the trucks, if they give you the top models, instead of a 4-wheel drive ram with a hemi, how about the ram srt-10?
also remember that in GT1, the spoilers moved depending on downforce, so, why'd they get rid of that?
 
what they need for the tuning is instead of going to the company tune shop to buy the parts, they should have some sort of "catalog" that you get when you buy the car and you can "order" the parts from the catalog. if you wanted to buy more from your garage, you would just then go to the vehicle and there would be an icon next to the "get in" and "sell" icons where you would buy stuff from. also, aside from body kits they should have retro muscle car add-ons such as blowers, side pipes, rear louvers, etc.
 
I have not read this entire thread, but what about including some tunning work shops in the game or a tunning guide when you buy parts that would be based on the car you have and the track or tracks that you want to run at. It could ask questions like how much do you want to spend, what type of tracks you want to race at etc. Basically it would be a novice guide to buying parts. Then maybe as you tested the car, a sort of mechanic would ask you questions about the laps that you just ran, and make suggestions. Granted the info would be basic for the most part, and the advice would only help you so much. Just think this would be a nice feature to get more involved with the game.
 
keef
I hate extravagant tuner body kits and jellybean rear spoilers. I do think it is a good idea to add more race car style rear spoilers and front chin spoilers and splitters. I think they should move depending on their downforce settings. Bringing back race car conversions from GT2 would be cool. Or maybe you could add numbers and sponsors to a car to make it look like a race car. But no retarded body kits. No spinner rims, no stupid fad stuff. I think they should get rid of trucks and SUVs. Nobody even races them.
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I agree 100%. I got sick of seeing that kind of stuff in NFS, I mean 3 games with it is enough. The real GT doesnt have bodykits or vinyl. It has downforce adjustable wings (new yes, but still its realistic) and the only option to make you car look better, wheels. IF you like tuning, stay with NFS, because that series has been lost to tuning.
 
AJ F.
I agree 100%. I got sick of seeing that kind of stuff in NFS, I mean 3 games with it is enough. The real GT doesnt have bodykits or vinyl. It has downforce adjustable wings (new yes, but still its realistic) and the only option to make you car look better, wheels. IF you like tuning, stay with NFS, because that series has been lost to tuning.
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The good news is visual tuning is absolutely not obliged in the latest NFS, no reputation points involved at all.

But still, indeed we don't need such tuning in GT. However, there should be some more options then just a selection of rims and a few different wing models. As said a billion times already, race conversion as seen in GT2 would be a nice idea.
I'm still making up my mind about customizable images and such as in Forza, might be a good idea.

But no further than that. I'd vomit if I saw a neon light under my SLR McLaren or TVR Tuscan, let alone equip it with some incredibly ugly roof scoop. Luckily I'm quite certain PD isn't going to include any of that.
 
i like to tune the outside of the car, but it does have its limit, i would like to see in GT5 to be able to paint the car and spoiler different colours, but within limit! Body kits would be cool, but i dont want them crazy like in NFS, maybe just a little body molding would be nice. Also, i want to be able to put spoilers on any car (apart from race cars). Im really annoyed with GT4 not letting me put a spoiler on my Ruf!! :ouch:
 
I think GT5 should have bodykit but they must be from the original factory
sorry bad english if you don't know what i mean here is an example
mazda only using mazdaspeed areokits
Honda only using mugen aerokits
nissan only using nismo aerokits

what dio you guys think?
 

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