"Daily" Race Discussion

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. GTPNewsWire

    GTPNewsWire Contributing Writer

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  2. BalsBrother

    BalsBrother

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    The issue with C for me is a bit like the recent wet spa race. This car seems to me all about keeping its weight balanced and being smooth in terms of throttle and brakes which requires a certain amount of patience to do right. Something I have noted several times is severely lacking in lower ranks. So while I have no doubts about myself keeping this car on track and at a reasonably competitive pace all that is null and void when folks just plow through and punt you off track.

    I just did a race C no q time so started at the back. I made 8 place going through that downhill section just before the uphill chicanes. It was like a Forza race you see on YouTube when half the field bin it one corner. However for the rest of the race I was acting as brakes and barriers for all those idiots as the barged and punted me to get past. No interest in racing clean, no interest in having a fun race and it was just must get place at all cost. One idiot had six seconds of penalties but still punted me on last corner before start / finish straight where the penalty zone is and I still of course went past while he served his penalties.

    Why would I want to keep doing that it's not fun. C might be fun in high lobbies as those folks at least make a token effort at clean racing but for me it's a nope (look at my DR it's not like I haven't given it a fair go but I have completely tanked my DR this morning trying to get a good race and just getting punted .)
     
  3. OJBrit

    OJBrit

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  4. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    You should practice evasive driving. Whennyou are ahead and you see one of those divers lining up you know what's coming. Delay your turn-in and he flies by and off ahead of you 9 out of 10 times.
     
  5. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,702
    I should think A race will be fun under this pen system.
    I’ve never been a Supra fan in this game. It’s very difficult.
    A sprint at Maggiore is always good. I think these races could be nice, just not C so much.
     
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  6. O604

    O604

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  7. Leggacy

    Leggacy

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    I keep getting an blue screen error every time I try do do anything in sport mode. Any ideas, is this happening to anyone else?
     
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  8. OJBrit

    OJBrit

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    And go to Fisherman's Ranch?
     
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  9. ii_Biggles_ii

    ii_Biggles_ii

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    I know exactly what you are saying and it's mainly as a result of the changes in the penalty system that it has gone to hell in a lot of ways. Ok it great that we are no longer getting silly penalties but the down side is that it is now been taken advantage of as lots of people who where not SR-S are now up there with the rest of us. I only did 2 races at RBR all week last week and it was yesterday, 1st race without qualifying and started 14th, let the madness happen at the start then moved up to 8th on second lap but the idiots then started trying to take out anyone in front of them to gain places. I had cleanly passed a guy twice and thought he was racing clean but 2 corners from home he went down the inside and used me as his brake and pushed me wide to get by, it was the first time in years I tried to spin him before that line because I was coming back at him and he started to run me into the pit wall, it didn't work for me as I have no practice at it but anyway I just couldn't be bothered if their racing like that all the time. The 2nd race I started 5th finished 8th through me playing clean as I always do but the dirty drivers still gained. I'm slowly losing the will to race at all.
     
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  10. Barra333

    Barra333 Premium

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    Doing that successfully is almost as satisfying as a clean pass under brakes.
     
  11. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    More I think
     
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  12. Little_Guppy

    Little_Guppy

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    That is a good approach. I also switch ghosts as even amongst the fastest times there is some variety with respect to lines and shift points. Once you mix it all in you have a lap that you can call your own.
     
  13. ii_Biggles_ii

    ii_Biggles_ii

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    I find that even in this weeks race B, the lines taken by the top driver vary and in some places I'm catching up because I take a slightly different line, what has been a great help is looking at the gears some use whereas I would have changed gear before watching the ghost sometimes you just need to lift of even short shift.
     
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  14. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    Thinking up these titles is the bane of my existence :lol:
     
  15. Little_Guppy

    Little_Guppy

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    Stating for the wider audience.

    The shift points are especially important for this week's B-Race as the META is the Supra. Like the Corvette, the torque peaks early and drops off rapidly. It strongly suggests earlier than normal shift points.

    The hood view does not have a tach and the HUD rev bar does not represent a "shift" bar for low torque cars. Temporarily switch to bumper view to calibrate the tach to the power bar, and say, shift when the bar hits the speed or gear indicator. Others have suggested this technique.

    There are good torque and RPM info curves in "Car Setting" | "Power Ratio" on the right panel that helps explain the "why".

    This will not work for auto transmission racers.

    And if anyone has some good tips on how to drive the Supra or Corvette I am all ears. I cannot get those cars to work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  16. roamingbard13

    roamingbard13

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    The Supra should be shifted just a little past the halfway mark on the power bar.

    As far as the rest of it -- taming the turbo kick is the secret. I was not great at it...mostly forgettable races for me in the Supra when I drove it for manu. The only race I did well at was at Monza NC of all places...but only having one truly slow corner likely helped.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  17. Little_Guppy

    Little_Guppy

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    I will admit some ignorance here. In the plethora of GTS levers I have never considered Turbo vs Normally Aspirated. Group 4 FF cars are exclusively Turbo. I have used the Group 2 exclusively in Group 2. Never noticed a difference in Group 1 - way too much power and a whole bunch of other things that make the cars different.

    In Group 3, my worst group, I like the Genesis, the Beetle, and, the Nissan GT-R. So, I looked them up. The Genesis is NA and the GT-R and Beetle are Turbos. From my perspective I just shift at the max with no more thought.

    I have tried the low revving Supra (Turbo) and Corvette (NA) and done poorly. The Supra appears to be a special case as it is both a turbo and a low torque car. Typically turbos need high revs to stay engaged and the low torque nature suggests short shifting. So, there must be a rather narrow band to utilize that turbo?

    Am I overthinking this? What do I need to know to best exploit the turbo aspect of the Supra. Do I feather the throttle on turns/braking? Do I just need to be prepared for a power lag? When approaching corners I rev it higher vs adding an additional shift-up and shift-down.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
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  18. NoStopN

    NoStopN

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    In both this comment, which I've shortened, & your previous comment, you're on the right track. The Corvette, Mustang, & Supra are all notorious for low throttle wheelspin coming out of tight corners & Maggiore has plenty. Throttle control is the name of the game. If you wheelspin, back off the throttle & possibly shift up a gear to calm the tires down. Obviously, you won't be on the throttle at that time, which could leave you open to a passing car. I've win at Maggiore numerous times going in both directions. Check my replays on the game. Search "NoStopN" & "Maggiore". I also use whatever car I won the race with (Corvette, Supra, Mustang, R8, Viper, etc.).
     
  19. BalsBrother

    BalsBrother

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    This is probably a bad idea but going to try to do some DR repair races this evening. Who knows some of them might be fun probably not but you never know. If not I have plenty of beer in the fridge and rum in the cupboard to drown my sorrows so apologies in advance for any nonsense drunk posts that may happen. :cheers:
     
  20. Tidgney

    Tidgney Premium

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    Weekly race guide for you. Not a fan of road cars, but race B is one you don't want to miss!

     
  21. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,702
    To add: TCS 3 is GREAT IF you have a nice progressive throttle input because out of slow corners you can begin accelerating earlier.
    The Supra has the turbo, sometimes it’s good to hold a gear a bit longer on exit. That can help too.
    As a long time Mustang/vette fan I am ALL OUT ON ATTACK in ALL slow technical sections and hairpins etc. TCS is hugely advantageous IF you have throttle control. Exiting slow turns if you have the throttle bar rising up and there’s a HINT of TCS (a sliver) but not any more, you can be on throttle earliest with ZERO worries from wheelspin.
    Imo these cars are WEAPONS in slow technical areas but if you go no TCS you’ll be tiptoeing while I’ll be ATTACKING. JMO
    Those cars are powerful and you want that power to the ground.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  22. OJBrit

    OJBrit

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    First races back in B for a while so let's see how it goes.
    Race A.
    Bargefest. Qualified 9th. Was able to pass a few people having issues and then another Brit who had ghosted on the run down to the final hairpin barges past me and they car in front. A Portuguese driver was a bit dirty as we kept passing one another. This allowed the dirtiest Frenchman to catch up and continually knock people off. I sorta wanted him and the Portuguese driver to fight. They did and a couple of times this allowed me to slip past. However the Frenchman was having none of it. Everytime I was alongside he made to shove me onto the grass. I had to back down as with Tsukuba the next braking zone is never far away. Last lap I had enough and dived him into the last hairpin which put him into a skid I was able to pull away from. Wished I had got the Portuguese driver too but finishing ahead of the Frenchman was reward enough. Finished 9th which is where I started. Not touching this again.

    Race B.
    Last time we raced this I got a 5th in the Lambo so decided to dust her off. Had a good couple of laps in qualy; and then as @RacingGrandpa knows she turns. :nervous:
    Started to loose her back end randomly. Also through a few of the corners midway around it was as if there was a string attached to the front which kept pulling me into understeer. Despite all this I still managed to knock a couple of seconds off my time before the matching started.
    Surprisingly qualified 7th. (I'm miles off the aliens.) The car felt better in the race and thanks to the misfortune of others I was up to 5th. Then in the last righthander she went again. Of course she had to face the barrier and I had to creep off the grass and onto the track. Now DFL. A few people including an overambitious Russian had incidents. I managed to catch a German in Aston a couple of times as he was slow coming out of the esses. However he did really well positioning me on the outside into BBB everytime and got me underbraking. (Shoutout to Blackrac62, good clean racing.)
    Thankfully on the last lap there was a pile up and I managed to cross the line 10th for some minor recovery. Though top 5 might have been on the cards. Will try a few cars here. Lambo feels good but she's annoyed I haven't used her much.

    Race C.
    Didn't know what to expect here. Luckily I had won a 20 Supra on the wheel a few weeks back. Thinking it was a dupe I was going to send it to the crusher. Thankfully It wasn't and I didn't. So I dressed her and took her to the track. It took a while to get used to the car. Initally it seemed to be the epitome of @GOTMAXPOWER's alt. The braking was horrendous. Then I realised it can take more of the brake pedal without spinning and my laps improved. Qualified 7th, nope 6th as someone quit. I seemed to be better at braking into turn 1 and caught the guy ahead through the corner. They wobbled in the esses and I was able to slip underneath into 135R. Next a car had ghosted and slid wide in the same corner. I was now up to 3rd. 2nd had got a corner cut penalty and decided to pit. Now 2nd I set a purple but was going roughly the same pace as the leader. My thoughts drifted a little and I broke too late into the chicane and hit the wall. Thankfully reset and the drivers behind had mucked up too. I lost about 5 seconds but was still in 2nd. Couple of laps later the leader came in so I got into the lead for a lap before my stop. (Racking those up recently) Down into 3rd as the guy who had pit from 2nd early was ahead of me. Not sure how close it would have been without my stupidity. He pulled further away as I got nervous as the cars behind on the contra strategy were catching. I was quicker through the last section it seemed and they were quicker in the esses. So it kept going from 0.6 seconds to 1.3 seconds across the lap. Luckily he started fighting with a car behind and I was able to secure a podium.
    [​IMG]

    A good race when you manage to get to grips with the car.
     
  23. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    TCS isn’t helping you get any more power to the ground, it’s just feathering the throttle for you is all. In reality is pulling more power back than need be though, you could be going faster without it if you take the time to learn the throttle control. You also lose a small amount every shift as well, even in a straight line. :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  24. O604

    O604

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    2 race A attempts. Finished but probably should have quit both, wouldn't have made any difference. Shame I usually like the competition at Tsukuba.

    If you chose not to qualify on Tsukuba (B/S grid) and then take people out on lap 1. You are the problem. It couldn't be any clearer than that. If this very basic concept can't be understood, how can anyone expect any penalty system to work? :lol:
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  25. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    Sure, over one lap, the maximum potential is there no tcs.
    On a difficult technical section or slow turn in a vette gr3 or Stang gr3, over one lap or that one from 20 you MIGHT gain a tenth or two IF you drive it perfect.
    Over one lap, no tcs has potential to be a bit faster.
    Imo for the rest of the times, in race, battling, tcs default will get those lower times in many cases.
    I’ve learned throttle control, I’m just faster using the tcs in many cases. If I start rolling on throttle too soon, I feel it. Without tcs in race conditions my average times are slower because I drive conservative a bit to keep margin for error, cautious.
    With tcs I can focus on racing the track and my opponents and not my own car.
    It’s just a preference. It’ll be horrible though for people who lack throttle control imo.
    In my racing, it’s not fun for me to go maxed out every lap, if a guy does that and executes and is a top guy he will most likely beat me, but I can often beat them by consistency...
    I admit I rarely go full out in race, only if trying to break slip or catch on a big push....
    It’s jmo.
    I suggest it because I’m probably one of the few who do it and tbh if a guy isn’t at least mid high A it might be something for them to look at.
    You can learn to drive right by spinning and crashing or by paying attention to what tcs shows you.
    :)
     
  26. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    I get what your saying, and you are correct in saying that using TCS is the best way to learn throttle control. That way you don’t spin out, and only slip and lose a few tenths. :cheers:

    But, what I’m saying is, at some point in the learning process, the learning curve will rise beyond the point where TCS is helpful, and at that point it actually starts to become a hinderance, and actually makes you slower(even over a whole race, since a whole race is just a bunch of individual laps strung together). If a person can’t make it through a whole race without looping it, TCS is the way to go, hands down. But, if they’ve gotten to the point where they can finish a whole race without spinning out(and we’re using medium tires in near all dailies now, this isn’t the old RH days anymore, there’s PLENTY of grip now), then moving on from TCS is the move to make. It may take a couple weeks to a couple of months to fully make the jump, but in the end that’s the way to keep getting faster/better. So in short, TCS only helps up to a certain point, after that, it’s on the driver to learn how to survive without it if they want to continue improving. :cheers:
     
  27. redbullfix

    redbullfix

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    90
    Use to use TCS all the time with DS controller
    Took the training wheels off for wheel use, unless racing in the rain, then TC2 is about right
     
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  28. PoisedPenguin

    PoisedPenguin

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    Hi all,

    I've been lurking around this topic for a while now, so while watching Tidgney's track guide I decided to create an account, and behold: a memorable race happened.

    I went for race A without any expectations, a decent albeit unimpressive qualification lap gave me the 7th spot on the grid. Took in the last tips from Tidgney during warm up, moved over to the inside for turn 1 to gain a position and courtesy of the number 2 taking out the leader I found myself in 4th approaching turn 2.

    Surprisingly it was a very clean race from there, gained a place, lost two, gained one again to get back into fourth, but nothing dirty at all, even hardly any door banging. Well, until the bloke in 3rd slammed up the inside of 2nd place in what I believe to be turn 4 (the sharp left). That in turn sent the leader off-road, and with two laps to go I found myself in 2nd place, behind the dirty driver. My pace wasn't there to overtake him, so coming into the final hairpin on the last lap I was happy to have maintained second place, until... the previous leader who got taken out by the dirty driver decided it was time for revenge, going full throttle from way back into the side of the dirty driver, sending the front end of his car into the shadow realm and the rear to Narnia and beyond, handing me a completely unexpected victory.

    If I'm racing you'll find me in a B/S-lobby, cruising around, working to improve my braking while sliding off once every other race. Not very consistent yet, and not good at overtaking, but being patient has given me the best results and a couple of wins so far.

    I don't like the dirty race(r)s, but do notice I actually learn a lot there. Monza Gr.3 once cost me my SR, but at the end of that week I somehow found myself back at S with an improved DR.

    Happy racing!


    Oh, if anyone has a link to a brilliant explanation on Brake Balance I'd be more than happy to hear. If there's one topic I've so far failed to understand...
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  29. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,702
    Right if you mess up it only slows you down, but the key point is being aware of what’s happening, having it piss you off to get power cut, and be better next lap.
    Tcs default ALSO teaches much better steering it teaches you minimum steering angle, because crank the wheel too far and it cuts power too. So it helps with the line and coming off brake well also because that helps you minimize the steering angle.
    The key thing is tcs default gives you PAIN mentally lol by slowing you down when you have made input errors. That’s instant negative reinforcement to mistakes, great for learning.
    That’s kinda my whole gig and I know you get it.
    The idea is instead of turning it off learn what’s happening to cause it to slow you if that’s the case and there’s a big slowdown if you use it.
    Make better inputs, but yeah highest possible level like world tour level I don’t think those guys use it.
    Good call :)

    Edit re fr cars yes I have diamond on Interlagos LH using tcs3. You just gotta drive well.
    To finish first, first you have to finish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021
  30. Pigems

    Pigems Premium

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    You’re not getting it. Yes, it’s a really great learning tool, but at a certain point, if one wants to continue improving, it’s time to take off the training wheels, because they can only get you so far. That’s the point your not understanding. I am no wear near WT level, not even remotely close, when I end up in their races, I’m 30-45s behind them by the end, or more. But, at no point in time do I ever find myself wishing that I’d had TCS on, not even when I end up in the grass at times. You have SO much more control over your car without it(in GTS), so much, it’s not even close. These are the skills that TCS robs you of learning, to fully control your throttle, and your car, in all situations, and at all times. This is something you will never be able to learn with TCS on, because it doesn’t allow you full freedom of throttle at all times.

    Now, if someone isn’t willing/able to put in that kind of time, that’s cool, everyone is free to play/enjoy the game the way they want to, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But this notion you have of TCS being faster no matter what, is not in any way shape or form true. You are just not willing to put in the time to continue learning, and that’s totally fine. But don’t hide behind false notions, just be honest. :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2021