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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Oct 14, 2019.
TPC ? New team
Yes Sir, fresh out the oven. A few of us from here started it last week.
Thanks, same to you my friend!
Zocker is live now racing at Tsukuba
Scored a little more in the MX5 while chasing Lester.
Is that one of the YouTube guys?
You know, I once thought that Tokyo East was good for cars up to Gr.3, but I rescind that statement. Even with Gr.4 cars, it's what I'd call one of the worst track designs (along with the entire series of tracks, even South) in GT's history. You can say that the lack of run-off areas "provides a challenge," but most drivers are on the lower-end of the bell-curve, so you get stuff where players don't give each other any space at all, and Race A this week ends up being a good place to tank your SR if you want to exploit the broken matchmaking for easy wins/poles.
You can call me salty, and why shouldn't I? GT Sport, at its very core, does a few things really nicely, but I'd say that it needs enough improvement at a basal level, insofar that I may as well wait for its successor rather than hope said improvements come in a patch. I don't even know at this point - I have too may suggestions to list here. If GT's appeal (and by extension, GT Sport) is truly its accessibility, then I can name a few places where GTS fails this goal, either by being unfair, overly-complex, or otherwise having frustrating game design elements. It's especially disappointing given how long GT has been around. I would've imagined that the staff at PD would've gained a lot of experience in game design by now, and learned some lessons in transparency to provide context and explanation to address fan concerns (outside of marketing events like the FIAGTCs) but who needs to improve your product when your budget is being covered by so many parties? PD being so close to Sony likely helps with each GT game's budget, especially since Sony wants them to be system-sellers. Then there's all the partnerships and publicity stunts that both make a GT game easier to reach profitable status and fool simple-minded audiences into thinking GT is something more than it is.
I do want to quit GTS (maybe even GT, and sim-like racing games as a whole) but I suppose I also want to potentially check out upcoming updates. But even then, if it's mostly just car and track additions - as nice as they are - then it won't address what I perceive to be some of the fundamental flaws at GTS' core.
There are just too many frustrating factors to GTS, the GT series as a whole, and PD. At this point, it just feels like a really, really glorified tech demo for various Sony products (whether it's the PlayStation itself, or their TVs) and a marketing vehicle for a bunch of sponsors like Red Bull and TAG-Heuer. You can say that I'm just "rage-quitting," and I'm not gonna argue otherwise. I feel like I have a lot to be frustrated about when it comes to GT. Games are not supposed to be stressful like GTS is. They're meant to be enriching, and I don't feel like I'm learning anything when I play GT. I'm not having fun, I'm not meeting people, I'm not being encouraged to be experimental and exercise critical thinking skills.
I don't feel like I am rewarded for improving in skill - in fact, I feel like I am being punished for improving. It's a Kafka-esque repetition of hovering around 26000 DR and never gaining poles/wins, despite what the trophy list ostensibly expects from players, let alone obtaining consecutive clean races. I'm not asking the game to blow me, but a win rate of under 2.5% between across 430 races doesn't sound normal for a racing game. It sounds like the symptoms of multiple broken systems. And there's no way for me to ask PD about this since they have no transparency, maybe a cryptic interview at some obscure conference or the FIAGTCs if you're lucky. No way to contact them. Nothing. It's honestly as if PD treats GT less like a game, and more like a passion project/tech demo for the PlayStation.
You can make fun of me, saying stuff like "u mad" but I'm just exasperated. It seems to me that PD isn't really a game developer. They're a tech demo developer. They don't make well-designed games, they make pretty games - ones that dazzle brainless NorCal tech investors and people who are otherwise too daft to know that there's more to a game than how well its animations/reflections/physics/lighting/particle effects are. PD may have impressive technology and visuals, but they seemingly continue to have serious difficulty with actual game design, and I think that's the only part of a game that truly matters the most. Everything else - graphics, story, music, etc. - can absolutely enhance the game design, but when you leave a lot of the game design to be desired, I think it can drag down the other elements a significant amount more, compared to if you did everything else well, but didn't do so well with something like the music. At any rate, if Kaz wants to play the Ferrari to somebody else's Lamborghini down the line, then that's his choice, as far as I know.
Can you take your helmet off for Race C to feel the wind through your hair?
So close, yet so far away.
Please don't take this the wrong way. Most of your posts are like reading a book complaining about the game. We all know the shortcomings of the game and nobody is forcing you to play it. I've found that coming on here and complaining about penalties and whatnot are not going to change anything. If you're not having fun playing the game, don't. I don't do as many daily races as I used to due to several reasons. I find I get just as much enjoyment out of hotlapping or creating liveries or anyone of the number of things the game has to offer. You should check out @Pigems lobby on Sat nights. It's good clean racing with friends that just want to have a good time racing.
Race A about as dirty as I expected. Starting out as a SR S lobby quickly changed to mostly red SR As by the end. I somehow was the only one with a blue SR. The sad thing was people congratulating the SR A winner. I don't know about you guys but I'd rather a win a race fair and clean than through dirty driving.
The only positive was a diverse grid although no Sciroccos in sight.
I think I'll just play something else - I have a lot of games on my backlog.
Meanwhile, I'm going to do some personal writing, on some hypotheses that I had regarding GT and its appeal as a series, and some bits of admittedly light analysis. Perhaps even begin to think of how a hypothetical racing game could do what GT does, except cheaper, and with enough innovation insofar that it's not just another racing sim in the vein of Project CARS, Assetto Corsa, etc. But overall thinking about game design, as I think GT has unfortunately been ostensibly unable to genuinely evolve and learn from its errors in game design.
I remain unconvinced that GT isn't simply just a series of (albeit impressive) tech demos - intended to sell the latest PlayStation - which happens to have a game attached. Until shown otherwise, I believe PD is all tech, with an insufficiently smaller emphasis on game design - maybe UI at most, which I'll admit can be quite nice at times.
It's just frustrating when I can clearly see a lot of potential in something like this.
chicane of death indeed , started 11th in a mixed room of S/A+/A , 7 drivers in front of me ALL eliminated themselves at that chicane .....just keep it clean at this section you are guaranteed to make places
I am going to say that Race B is probably going to wipe out my SR is week, but I am determined to figure it out. Struggled mightily last night, started in back half of the pack, never made it through lap 1 without an incident. If I can clear lap 1 I think I have a chance but not sure as so far I am finishing that lap in last after getting punted every time. Once was my fault as I had to slow down for the sweeper chicane when I drifted wide, as I came back on track just got blasted, but also had nowhere else to go other than complete stop. No one got a penalty for that though. Usually get booted or shoved into or out of that first hairpin. I am still making up places as people keep trying the chicane of death 2 wide but I need to figure out how to stay in line without geting losing it or getting booted lap 1 to have a chance.
Did actually have a good clean race with a guy for a lap last night before we caught a Black Knight ahead who took both of them out with one of their crazy blocks. Oh well, going to learn or get to next week. On the plus side my SR is still at 97 as most incidents don't seem to penalize people so bad. Or at least punting me in the lobbies I have been in doesnt penalize others.
I know it won't stand up but I'm currently 9th in NA for Race C with a 1:11.296. Six Canadians in the top 10 right now, no doubt due to the holiday.
Race B is a load of fun. Just had a race with @Sven Jurgens and now I regret having qualified. I managed to pull off a good time, but he seemed to have so much fun coming through the field, starting from the back.
Race A is also ok, but a borderline SR-killer race. From Tuesday on, skipping it might be a good idea.
@MIE1992 u mad? Jk.
Yes, GT Sport can use many improvements. However complaining that a 2.5% win ratio is low means you need to get more realistic about your expectations of online gaming. There's always someone faster, especially in the max SR.S lobbies where the fastest people live since they face no challenge outside of SR.S.
There are still over 30K daily players in sport mode, 80K weekly out of over 600K active players every week. It's niche compared to Fortnight, yet what other racing game attracts an active crowd like GT does?
There are many ways to enjoy daily sport races. Set yourself other goals than victories or meaningless trophies. Everyone has to deal with the same broken system after all. It's what you make of it, no point waiting for PD to fix it. Hopefully next gen PD will completely overhaul the DR/SR matchmaking system after all the experience they collected with GT Sport. SR calculations are fundamentally flawed, not helped by a broken penalty system, both undermining the DR calculations and matchmaking.
PD was never any good at AI, so no wonder they're struggling with assigning penalties correctly. The enjoyment comes from driving vastly different cars around all different kinds of tracks. Naturally one DR value can't even begin to capture the abilities of different players with such a range of cars and tracks. It is what it is, one week you're up, the next you're down. Unless you carefully chose your races and times to race, stop worrying about 'results' and enjoy the ride.
Finally got it! 1:28.6 in the ‘08 GTR, BB-2
Not a clue how people are getting into the 27’s yet, but it’s only Monday, lots of time left to learn still.
First ever Sport Mode race with a wheel..happy with that
First penalty today, same as usual.
Forced a wall bouncer off the road, 2 sec since he cut over the red.
Clean streak reset, doesn't matter, too much fun zipping through the bus stop in GR.2!
Finally a fast race on a fun track!
First race i had a 2 sec lead. I braked there for 3 laps. Didnt want to screw the win. Rest of the 3 races i lifted most of the time and only went flat out for 4 laps.
It really is a gamble going flat out there. Slightly here and there and you are a goner.
Where are you on the SR ladder? I’ll be coming out shortly, I’m down in SR B(48) right now though.
Do something else.
I think I was in that race. And I think I was punted by that same NSX.
Well, got nailed again next race... 3 sec, totally my fault.
Plus another SR Down from a dive bomb, down to 90 SR currently.
Time for a break for me, still got to do some stuff outside, might as well while the sun is briefly out. Get back to SR.S!
11 ball, corner pocket!
I can accept that there are many people faster than me. What I am rejecting is that the design of the trophies and in-game achievements do not acknowledge this. I am very content with trophies that are indeed remarkably difficult, like the "Beat Zico" and "Zone Zeus" trophies in WipEout HD, but in GTS, obtaining its hardest trophies (for wins/poles especially) is a subjective experience that solely depends on who you are matched with. It's like if you had an exam, but your score depended only on who else was in your class - there's no stationary goalpost.
My issue is that PD has been making games for over 20 years. They've released a successful series of games in GT. They aren't seemingly tied up with tons of projects other than GT. And yet, from my view, they are continuously failing to further enrich their audience and evolve their game design. The more I look at it, GT is just a series of tech demos. This isn't about penalties or AI in GTS. It's about GT as a whole and GTS as being part of that. I am just so immensely frustrated with GT and PD. There is so much potential for GT, but not only is PD seemingly not evolving, but there's no way to ask them about things. There's no way to learn about their design process. I think they're just there to make glorified tech demos for the PlayStation and I'm yet to be convinced otherwise. It makes more sense that PD wouldn't be trying to actually improve their games when you view it from the perspective of GT trying to dazzle techbros and sell consoles. GT had most of its appeal, after all, when it was the most realistic racing game on the market, for both its visuals and physics. Now it's caught in a weird arms race with itself, where it always has to make the most of the PlayStation hardware, game design be damned.
I don't even know where to begin. I'd have a better idea of what to suggest if PD wasn't as opaque as they are, and perhaps if they could tell me what their goals are with various features/elements/etc. but I'm just frustrated with anything related to GT right now. I don't even want to be an employee of PD - I just want to talk to someone. I think it'd be better for me mentally if I just quit the whole GT series, maybe even quit being a car enthusiast. It's clearly wasted energy on my part.
And I think I will.
Some guy drove into the side of and into a wall on daily race A mid corner and has the cheek to call me a dirty idiot after the race for trying to overtake him. Some people.
Out of the cars available in Race A this week, which one do you think is the best all-around car?
I don’t have any of these cars and would like to do buy one to run around in arcade mode first. It seems this isn’t the first time this group of cars has been selected, so I might as well buy one to practice for future races as well.
You are clearly taking this way too serious. It's a game. PD can be as transparent or un-transparent as they like. And it should make little difference to us.
You are right about the trophies being hard to get. Yet we have at least one member here who earned the win trophy in just a few weeks. Not by being a supreme race driver but by using the system to get it.
You should, for your own sake, stop viewing the game as something that you are to interpret and see it as a mean to have fun. If you don't enjoy the game, you should step away from it.
A car enthusiast is something totally apart from the game. If you enjoy that, don't stop.
And I have 4 wins on 400+ races. I will never get the trophies. But I am enjoying my time in game. If I wasn't I would uninstall it.
You are going too fast there i think. Should have slowed down to avoid.