DiRT Rally 2.0 Hands-On Preview: Magical Stage Design, Tarmac Physics Need Work

[Wolfe]

Be interested to try your settings. Never been able to enjoy pcars 2 on a pad so would be keen to try it.

I got your PM but I'll share them for anyone interested.

Steering Sensitivity:   10
Throttle Sensitivity:   45
Brake Sensitivity:      45

Speed Sensitivity:      75
Controller Damping:     85

Driving Assists Menu
Opposite Lock:          ON

It's worth mentioning that I play the game with a more precise input style than in most other games, but it is far, far less tiresome than the very careful touch PCARS1 required. A handful of cars are still twitchy, but this is a one-setting-fits-all for the majority of cars across disciplines. The opposite lock "assist" is important, and hardly the crutch one might expect it to be.

The speed sensitivity of 75 is paramount -- it may seem overly sensitive at first, but after thorough testing I found it is the ideal setting for recovering from oversteer, because it gives you just the right amount of countersteer almost every time, in almost every car. I tuned the steering sensitivity and controller damping to compensate for it. Those can be adjusted freely.

I don't agree on this one. Codemasters are the undisputed kings (and maybe those developers of Forza Horizon too) on making controller handling feel epic at all times in all of their games, dr1 included...

...CM racing games dirt rally1 included on a controller feel soo good (with the exception of Dirt4. You know that game is that weird). Credit where credit is due.

See, here's what complicates this -- I was never interested in Dirt Rally because of the aforementioned stage recycling. After Dirt 3, I had enough of that. I really have a hard time believing DR handled better than other Codemasters games, because all their games always handle about the same, but I just don't know 100% for sure without trying it myself.

Of the Codemasters games I've played -- old CMR games, Dirt games (excluding Rally), Grid and Grid Autosport -- I cannot agree that they feel "epic". They feel nervous and hyperactive; needlessly punishing just to be "hardcore"; and floaty and disconnected, like the early 3D racing games of the late '90s. I've always thought they were over-the-top and old-fashioned on purpose, like the NFL Blitz of racing games. Just an oldschool arcade racer that isn't quite for me.

Which is why it puzzles me that Dirt Rally is considered to be a simulator. If it's true, what made them capable of that all of a sudden? Why wasn't Dirt 4 the same? Why are they doing it again now, but without the benefit of Your Stage? What the hell?

 

[MagpieRacer]

The separation of Dirt Rally from the numbered series should be a hint at the simulation nature of Dirt Rally. The casual gamer (people like my dad) couldn't get on with it but absolutely loved Dirt 4 as it was more accessible. It was clear during Dirt 4 development and release that it wasn't a sequel to rally and that DR2 would be separate to the numbered series. I think the reason they suddenly went for that is the loud demand there was within certain areas for a rally sim, which at that point we hadn't had since 2003 with Richard Burns Rally. There was a time where Dirt Rally wasn't being considered for a console release because it's a very niche market it was aiming for. Dirt 4 exists to keep the traditional series running and cater for the mass market (people like my dad).

I think they ditched your stage for the rally series to maintain the realism, think of it like if F1 games used fictional procedurally generated circuits. Breaks the immersion of realism. I'd much prefer having real stages in a rally sim and leave the fictional generated ones for the more casual game. Rally Sims historically have recreated real stages, Richard Burns Rally, Dirt Rally, Sebastien Loeb Rally Evo and Dirt Rally 2. Keeps the immersion and, in my opinion, increases the challenge.

 

[Rodger Davies]

I will say that they went all out trying to convince the DR crowd that it was for them. And it certainly was a ‘master of none’ outcome. So I completely understand scepticism of the new title, just don’t understand people who loved DR1 not having an open mind about this one.

I completely understand VR devotees holding out for DR, if not some of the nonsense spouted off by some people who clearly aren’t aware of how software branches work, and I really hope this feature is added in future so more people give it a chance.

But the accusation of not listening to the audience is patently untrue; almost every new bit of feature or content I can trace to some badgering on one forum or another over the last few years.

More focused? We’re down to two disciplines (and I’d happily see it be just one!).

More ‘exotic’ locations? Hello New Zealand and Argentina.

More strategy? Tyre wear.

Vary the stages more? Weather and surface degradation.

Not the ‘same old’ cars? About 20% are new, including the much requested 240Z and Fabia R5. Updated sounds for Escort and 208 T16. Porsche (and I’ll be able to pluralise that after DLC drops).

Back to handcrafted stages? Done.



Most importantly to me... Support and DLC programme (and more unique KMs of rally stage)? Minimum of 6 months and 2 packs, planning for more. Clubs being added shortly after launch.


Have they been able to listen to every request? Nope. I want to see a hot seat mode, VR, modding offline files, a Datsun 160J, a revised car class structure and more in-depth rally AI. But DR2 is clearly the result of community feedback, and long may that continue.

 

[Wolfe]

@MagpieRacer -- I get the distinction between the games, but why couldn't the "simulation" mode in Dirt 4 carry over Dirt Rally's handling model, since they bothered to include two modes that are as distinct as they are anyway? When I preordered Dirt 4, I was thinking, "great, now I can find out how great the Dirt Rally handling really is, in a new game that will without a doubt correct its predecessors' worst fault!" I was half right, at the very least.

I think they ditched your stage for the rally series to maintain the realism, think of it like if F1 games used fictional procedurally generated circuits. Breaks the immersion of realism...

I couldn't disagree more. Formula 1 is a official championship with a calendar of circuits. WRC is an official championship with a calendar of rallies. WRC is rally, but rally is not WRC. If not beholden to a WRC license, a rally game should be free to offer anything.

I do not conceive immersion in the sense you've described. I don't play simulators to imitate a sport; I play simulators for the joy of realistic handling dynamics -- that's the realism I'm after. I love driving, and a proper simulator with procedurally generated narrow, scenic, twisty roads in a variety of conditions would be an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Real stages are cool, but I see absolutely no reason to limit a game with realistic handling to only a finite list of real stages. I really don't understand why only serious motorsports-oriented games deserve a monopoly over realism, in general. You'd think the roaring success of Forza Horizon would prove a point, but no one else seems to have figured it out.

 

[MarcoM]

Resources do have their limits.

I understand that Horizon mimicks no limits. Still for my rally fix I prefer DR and hopefuly dr2 will expand on that.

 

[fernandito]

Resources do have their limits.

yeah, you cut the rallycross content that is occupying those sources you talk about allowing for a couple of countries more to be included for rally, you then no longer have to resort to that "resources are limited" automated line. It's that easy.

Why rallycross in a rally game that tries to allineate rally fans to begin with?, not to mention they have the official rallycross licence, so they could very well make their own separate rallycross game for rallycross fans, and make both crowds happy at long last; the rally crowd with our game full of rally content and for the first time in twelve years since the first Dirt not feeling lackluster for us, and then the rallycross fans with their full out licenced rallycross game. Just why you have to be the jack of all trades and master of none, resulting always on that feeling of lackluster, obviously?

Some excuses got old long ago.

 

[MagpieRacer]

@MagpieRacer -- I get the distinction between the games, but why couldn't the "simulation" mode in Dirt 4 carry over Dirt Rally's handling model, since they bothered to include two modes that are as distinct as they are anyway? When I preordered Dirt 4, I was thinking, "great, now I can find out how great the Dirt Rally handling really is, in a new game that will without a doubt correct its predecessors' worst fault!" I was half right, at the very least.


I do not conceive immersion in the sense you've described. I don't play simulators to imitate a sport; I play simulators for the joy of realistic handling dynamics -- that's the realism I'm after. I love driving, and a proper simulator with procedurally generated narrow, scenic, twisty roads in a variety of conditions would be an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Real stages are cool, but I see absolutely no reason to limit a game with realistic handling to only a finite list of real stages. I really don't understand why only serious motorsports-oriented games deserve a monopoly over realism, in general. You'd think the roaring success of Forza Horizon would prove a point, but no one else seems to have figured it out.

I've often speculated as to why, as have many others, and based on my feelings playing the two models. I think the DR/2 model is.completely different to the model used in Dirt 4. My reckoning is they led with the gamer handling mode and then decided to add the sim mode to appease the DR fans. But instead of trying to shoehorn a completely different physics setup inthey simply toughened up the gamer mode setting. You can feel this with the braking and the way the cars oversteer, there's a lot of overcompensating when driving the sim mode that you don't get with DR. Other aspects were improved somewhat like aerodynamics, benefits of which we should see on DR2. Just my 2 cents on what I feel on why they didn't use the sim physics. It's my belief that there was never meant to be 2 modes, rather just what was later known as gamer handling should have just been the game and they could have avoided the whole sim backlash.

Again it will come down to individual preference, real stages add a new level of immersion for me personally, WRC license or not, if something wants to simulate a sport i.e. rallying then it should do so as faithfully as possible and that includes stages. No it doesn't have the WRC license but it has a full R5 class and more besides. But I do agree to point with your comment about procedurally generated stages, if the sim aspect came together with tight, scenic roads with nice variety I think that would please a lot of people. That's why your stage has a long, long way to go. It's a great premise but I got bored of the stages, they all look the same in each location, too many recycled sections and not enough variety or challenge.

 

[MagpieRacer]

yeah, you cut the rallycross content that is occupying those sources you talk about allowing for a couple of countries more to be included for rally, you then no longer have to resort to that "resources are limited" automated line. It's that easy.

Why rallycross in a rally game that tries to allineate rally fans to begin with?, not to mention they have the official rallycross licence, so they could very well make their own separate rallycross game for rallycross fans, and make both crowds happy at long last; the rally crowd with our game full of rally content and for the first time in twelve years since the first Dirt not feeling lackluster for us, and then the rallycross fans with their full out licenced rallycross game. Just why you have to be the jack of all trades and master of none, resulting always on that feeling of lackluster, obviously?, yeah they have to make money and blahblah "insert automated quote nº23634547/g" here.

Some excuses got old long ago.

I really don't think you get it. If you honestly think by cutting Rallycross we would magically get more rally countries then I've got news for you. Far easier to build circuits than rallies, especially when you can borrow assets from F1 (Silverstone and Catalunya) and already have a majority of the content built ready to go from the 2 previous games that have featured it.
I also don't see how they are already trying to alienate rally fans before they even add Rallycross such an odd statement.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Rallycross has been part of this series since 2007, it's not a sudden appearance that should surprise people. It's part and parcel of the Dirt series and will continue to be.

 

[Wolfe]

...your stage has a long, long way to go. It's a great premise but I got bored of the stages, they all look the same in each location, too many recycled sections and not enough variety or challenge.

That goes back to your post about never pleasing everyone -- no matter how familiar I am with the tiles in Your Stage, as underdeveloped as it is, it is nowhere near as repetitive or boredom-inducing to me as an (unjustifiably) small number of fixed stages. Whenever I revisit Dirt 4 I am still impressed by it.

 

[jake2013guy]

That goes back to your post about never pleasing everyone -- no matter how familiar I am with the tiles in Your Stage, as underdeveloped as it is, it is nowhere near as repetitive or boredom-inducing to me as an (unjustifiably) small number of fixed stages. Whenever I revisit Dirt 4 I am still impressed by it.

Agreed. This is one of the reasons I'm not really interested in DR2. If they worked on Your Stage a bit more and improved how it worked, they could add more tiles and create more varied ones.

Alternatively, they could have created a xkm by xkm area and the routes would go around that. It would allow for creativity in an area and not mean you'd only have 1 really long stage per location chopped and reversed.

 

[kikie]

Interesting!



This could mean that Dirt Rally 2.0 is going to be even better.

 

[fernandito]

I really don't think you get it. If you honestly think by cutting Rallycross we would magically get more rally countries then I've got news for you. Far easier to build circuits than rallies, especially when you can borrow assets from F1 (Silverstone and Catalunya) and already have a majority of the content built ready to go from the 2 previous games that have featured it.
I also don't see how they are already trying to alienate rally fans before they even add Rallycross such an odd statement.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Rallycross has been part of this series since 2007, it's not a sudden appearance that should surprise people. It's part and parcel of the Dirt series and will continue to be.

Or perhaps it is just you the one that won't get it at all, unless you are trying play dumb for the tenth time which I suspect you are doing on a persistent manner.

They add rallycross content precisely because of the reason you have said, avoiding the work it takes to create two long rally stages (for then just create multiple routes), sparing those sources the lazy lazy way. And what you cannot pretend after doing that for twelve years in a row already (and without changing engine and still working on such outdated one as ego is, which was mean to make arcade games don't forget), is telling rally fans in all directions that you are trying to cater them all in a rally game where 35% of its content is about rallycross, in other words not rally.

Rallycross is rallycross, whereas rally means rally. If you want to allineate rally fans and bring the very very well earned in twelve years skepticism on CM to an end, then bring a full-fledged rally game at long last. Scrap the rallycross content and make your separate officially licenced rallycross videogame.

 

[MagpieRacer]

That goes back to your post about never pleasing everyone -- no matter how familiar I am with the tiles in Your Stage, as underdeveloped as it is, it is nowhere near as repetitive or boredom-inducing to me as an (unjustifiably) small number of fixed stages. Whenever I revisit Dirt 4 I am still impressed by it.

We'll just differ there . I enjoy Dirt 4 immensely but I much prefer the real stages.

Or perhaps it is just you the one that won't get it at all, unless you are trying play dumb for the tenth time which I suspect you are doing on a persistent manner.

No I totally get it. You don't like Rallycross, I get it. Loud and clear. Does RALLYcross belong in a RALLY game. Yes. There are enough people who DO like the Rallycross content that it can justify it's position in the game. I know people who might not even touch the rally content.

 

[fernandito]

No I totally get it. You don't like Rallycross, I get it. Loud and clear.

Oh nice switch from the "making rally tracks is very expensive and resource costly, hence that's why they add rallycross". Getting really tired of your evasives for any argument you are given.

Does RALLYcross belong in a RALLY game. Yes.

NO, It does not belong in a pure rally game that is aimed toward rally crowd. You don't get it yet that most rally fans, in other words the ones that should be interested in an spin-off game like dirt rally and now dr2, don't want rallycross at all, because this the culprit for the lackluster rally content. Not only because most find that discipline as a big MEH!, not to mention its track design and how short races are.

There are enough people who DO like the Rallycross content that it can justify it's position in the game.

More lies. The people interested in rallycross content are the ones who buy the standard Dirt game series, not the dirt rally spin-offs. The people interested in rally want rally, only, as we could have it no other way.

I know people who might not even touch the rally content.

The ones that buy the normal Dirt games you mean?, in other words the ones who don't play DR spin-offs?, well that very well deserves some captain obvious merits. However, reality is that those who buy the dr spin off want things, precisely, to be the other way around.

 

[doblocruiser]

It does not belong in a pure rally game that is aimed toward rally crowd.

I have to agree here with @fernandito

DIRT 2.0 should be a rally purist title and not have RallyCross thrown into the mix because of marketing and sales reason. Rallycross has in my opinion nothing to do with rally. I find it more a toned down kind of destructionderby in which I am simply not interested. I find it a huge waiste of resources and time to put rallycross in and if they officially license rallycross they should make it a separate title and not a kind of add on to sell their hardcore "rally" game.

I understand the reasoning behind it but I am not happy with it.

I think it will be hard to all agree on but personally I would like to see it gone completely from a rally game and instead they should use the WRX license to the more casual DIRT player which throws in different kind of series or as said a separate WRX game.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Oh nice switch from the "making rally tracks is very expensive and resource costly, hence that's why they add rallycross". Getting really tired of your evasives for any argument you are given.

NO, It does not belong in a pure rally game that is aimed toward rally crowd. You don't get it yet that most rally fans, in other words the ones that should be interested in an spin-off game like dirt rally and now dr2, don't want rallycross at all, because this the culprit for the lackluster rally content. Not only because most find that discipline as a big MEH!, not to mention its track design and how short races are.

More lies. The people interested in rallycross content are the ones who buy the standard Dirt game series, not the dirt rally spin-offs. The people interested in rally want rally, only, as we could have it no other way.

.

Making rally tracks is expensive and costly. What does that have to do with your very clear dislike for Rallycross? This isn't an argument my friend, this is your opinion vs my opinion which are different. Quite simple. You can't just attack people be sure their views don't align with yours.

It comes back to my point that everyone seems very keen to remind me of. Keeping everyone happy.

The contradiction comes from people saying they want more rally content so Rallycross should be ditched and have its own game. Who's gonna make that game? Codemasters will, so the workload will be the same, the game might get fleshed out a bit more and the rally game will end up with the same amount of content it would have had whether Rallycross was there or not!

 

[MarcoM]

It is Codemasters' decision to include what content they want and it is our decision to spend money on it or not.

@fernandito , it is clear that you won't like DR2. Perhaps it is time to do something positive with you time.

Oh and for those who say DR has pinpoint physics, you probably mistake it with Rally 2000. Now that has some serious pinpoint physics. And it was considered very good for its time

 

[doblocruiser]

Thanks for that video @MarcoM back to memorylane....👍

 

[bogani]

After a week with the pre-release in my own rig I have to say I'm pretty much blown away with how the cars handle on gravel. I'll go a far as saying it's a HUGE step up from the original Dirt Rally that I know so many of us loved.
FWD's and 4WD's feel splendid, but RWD's are now truly amazing to throw around. I was slightly concerned with the inclusion of the Mustang and Camaro but they don't actually feel as shoe horned in as you might think when actually driving them.

And if you thought Dirt Rally had great sound, well, hold my beer.

Good times ahead

 

[doblocruiser]

I have to say I'm pretty much blown away with how the cars handle on gravel

Can you describe your feeling on the tarmac handle as well?

 

[bogani]

Can you describe your feeling on the tarmac handle as well?

It's better than DR/D4 but still needs some attention.

 

[Jimmy B]

@bogani looks like we're in agreement then!

 

[fernandito]

Can you describe your feeling on the tarmac handle as well?

Best straight up answer you can get on that matter:


I mean. I don't think that would be possible to do with the real car even by setting the angle of acceleration differential, or power ramp if you wanna call it to its tightest mark, which would be a minimum value of at around 20º (almost fully locked accel diff). Impossible to drive this car like that due to its engine position and nature of the chasis.

Not to mention the car would become undrivable after a couple of minutes or even less due to way too high carcass temperature and excessive tyre internal pressure, specially on the rears. In other words because of tyres burnt out very fast and on the brink of puncture.

And yeah gravel driving looks nice, but oh well so was DR1 gravel racing too. So what are the actual improvements over dr1?, the surface degradation only?

I'd also like to remind everyone that the guys behind dr2 are the same from dr4, yes the ones that appear in that video posted one page back apologizing for the handling of D4 (just lol), but only after you of course purchased it The original Dirt Rally team was no more after console release, so remember that well and keep that in mind before purchasing. I very much suggest trying the game with the typical friend who can't control himself and always end up buying these kind of games (the dirt games basically) day one, for then judge for yourselves and eventually making your decision to either purchase it or not. That is what I'm doing this time; no more risks with CM games, as the DR1 surprise didn't last long when DR4 was released and realized they once again had gone for the quick cash grab, as usual with these guys and their Dirt series.

 

[Scaff]

More lies. The people interested in rallycross content are the ones who buy the standard Dirt game series, not the dirt rally spin-offs. The people interested in rally want rally, only, as we could have it no other way.

That's a rather bold claim to make, I do hope you can back that up.

Regards, a long time fan of both Rally and Rallycross going back to the 70's and 80's who is rather well know for his love of seious rally sims over the more accessible titles.

 

[cjr3559]

Frankly I’m surprised tarmac locations exist with the surface degradation feature in 2.0..

So will tarmac change too, meaning it starts dusty with increasing grip as rubber gets laid down? I’m guessing yes, but should be interesting how this develops.

Still can’t believe no snow locations at game launch.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Best straight up answer you can get on that matter:


I mean. I don't think that would be possible to do with the real car even by setting the angle of acceleration differential, or power ramp if you wanna call it to its tightest mark, which would be a minimum value of at around 20º (almost fully locked accel diff). Impossible to drive this car like that due to its engine position and nature of the chasis.

Not to mention the car would become undrivable after a couple of minutes or even less due to way too high carcass temperature and excessive tyre internal pressure, specially on the rears. In other words because of tyres burnt out very fast and on the brink of puncture.

And yeah gravel driving looks nice, but oh well so was DR1 gravel racing too. So what are the actual improvements over dr1?, the surface degradation only?

I'd also like to remind everyone that the guys behind dr2 are the same from dr4, yes the ones that appear in that video posted one page back apologizing for the handling of D4 (just lol), but only after you of course purchased it The original Dirt Rally team was no more after console release, so remember that well and keep that in mind before purchasing. I very much suggest trying the game with the typical friend who can't control himself and always end up buying these kind of games (the dirt games basically) day one, for then judge for yourselves and eventually making your decision to either purchase it or not. That is what I'm doing this time; no more risks with CM games, as the DR1 surprise didn't last long when DR4 was released and realized they once again had gone for the quick cash grab, as usual with these guys and their Dirt series.

I can't even be bothered anymore. You've clearly got a very negative view for whatever reason.

 

[kikie]

More lies. The people interested in rallycross content are the ones who buy the standard Dirt game series, not the dirt rally spin-offs. The people interested in rally want rally, only, as we could have it no other way.

BS! @MagpieRacer is correct!

I'm very much interested in rallycross and less in rally and I'm very, very interested in Dirt Rally 2.0. I'm probably not going to play the rally part that often. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person on this planet that prefers rallycross over rally and I'm very interested in Dirt Rally 2.0.

 

[bogani]

@bogani looks like we're in agreement then!

Indeed. It's a shame they don't provide the best possible environment for you to test it out when it comes to hardware(overly strong FFB etc) but the loose stuff feels really really good. It was in a very good state when we ended our handling prototype 6 months ago, but it's even better now. I mostly credit Jon and Ryan for that.

Yes, it will be light on content, I would love much more stage kilometers. Hopefully they will expand upon it if the reception is good.

 

[bogani]

That's a rather bold claim to make, I do hope you can back that up.

Regards, a long time fan of both Rally and Rallycross going back to the 70's and 80's who is rather well know for his love of seious rally sims over the more accessible titles.

Couldn't agree more. I love rally but I enjoy RX as well.

He also throws around the claim that many of the people that worked on DR has been 'fired' a lot. Wonder if he can back that up too?

 

[MagpieRacer]

Frankly I’m surprised tarmac locations exist with the surface degradation feature in 2.0..

So will tarmac change too, meaning it starts dusty with increasing grip as rubber gets laid down? I’m guessing yes, but should be interesting how this develops.

Still can’t believe no snow locations at game launch.

Yeah I don't know if the tarmac side of that has been expanded upon. Be interesting to know.

Snow can do one hated Sweden in the first game.
In all seriousness I am also surprised, would have thought snow would have been the ideal surface to push the degradation to the max. Snow and ice down to slush and gravel. Would make it really interesting.