DS4 snap countersteer lock (read OP)

MisterOne77
Can anyone upload a video demonstrating this controller problem? I've read the several explanations but I'm not too sure I fully understand what the problem is. I don't have the demo so I wouldn't be able to see what the problem is for myself.
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I apologise for the vertical videos but it's the only way the camera works on my phone, but hopefully the following videos will help.



 
Lord Protector
it's not so much about lap times.. they can be similar yes, but try going drifting with the M4 and not get killed..
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Ahhhh I see. I'm not too big on drifting that's probably why I don't see it as often. I will say though that even the littlest tire slip or oversteer will render unforgiving results. I been able to catch my rear at times but correcting oversteer on this game is vaguely remnant of PCars. Only thing is the cars tail end isn't as easy to lose as it was in PCars.
 
Manasseh257NSX
Ahhhh I see. I'm not too big on drifting that's probably why I don't see it as often. I will say though that even the littlest tire slip or oversteer will render unforgiving results. I been able to catch my rear at times but correcting oversteer on this game is vaguely remnant of PCars. Only thing is the cars tail end isn't as easy to lose as it was in PCars.
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Warning, this affects you whether or not you like drifting because once you lose traction from upsetting the car you will experience squirrely steering on a DS4, try driving the stock M4. That car likes to break traction at the drop of a hat, that car is a prime example of this DS4 bug in a worst case scenario. How many slides have you swore you should have been able to right but somehow couldn't in the Demo? I have a string of them which I assumed was just how things were and kept on driving but this thread made me go look into it. I'm not even a drifter, but loss of grip turns into suicide is no fun. PD needs to know this exists and it needs to be gone, else there will be a lot of angry casuals.


Eliminatorek
SavageEvil you seem to be most correct about some signals messing up. I played (DS4) with Rally RCZ and it works smooth and fine with AWD, you can roll the wheel like a baby toy, back and forth. Such a releif to feel wheel respond LOL
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I went head on with the issue because something bothered me when someone mentioned it. I knew something was up, but I didn't pay it any mind. Testing my car by drifting and purposely doing full throttle launches reveals basically the buffer system that dampens the steering of a DS4 simply cuts out when you start sliding and you basically get 1:1 steering which is catastrophic on tiny analog stick with less that 4 cm of travel in any direction. Just go attempt a drift, it will start out fine but once the tires completely break traction then all hell breaks loose with the steering. In the car you will see the the avatar go full lock even if you hadn't pressed the direction that long that's why I surmised the buffer/damper system PD uses cuts out but only when you break traction. It happens in AWD and 4WD cars as well, those cars are less affected but it still makes drifting a chore. I saved a replay of it so you can swap views to see what is going on the moment the buffer cuts out and the wheel goes full lock, external view shows the wheel suddenly locking at max angle. The buffer/damper system works fine all other times though, else no one would be able to drive at all with the DS4, first corner would have people all over the place.
 
Yeah, I'm now a wheel user for the most part but I like to use the DS4 at night when people are asleep. I mean, for me, it's not nearly as bad as PCars, in that I could hardly get round a few bloody corners. In GTS it's manageable and you can still go pretty fast but if you mess up you're done for. The issue makes it so you can't really push the car a ton, else you spin. On the wheel you can catch a slide and the wheel won't keep going in that direction like it does on the pad. You're able to push as much as you can. Fix that and we're in business. For the first time, the pad feels like the wheel (as much as it can anyway), but the big problem is really hurting it. And that huge delay before it returns from full lock is insane, that HAS to be a bug, surely? PD have usually been excellent in building the game for the controller, I'm hoping that this is just an oversight/bug.
 
To me this sounds like code for "I'm not used to the physics". Change up the steering sensitivity, get a feel what the car does and slowly start improving your lap times. Stop complaining, not every game is perfect from the first day that you play it.
 
CLowndes888
To me this sounds like code for "I'm not used to the physics". Change up the steering sensitivity, get a feel what the car does and slowly start improving your lap times. Stop complaining, not every game is perfect from the first day that you play it.
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I can set laptimes close to the top of the leaderboards and I've changed the steering sensitivity lots and I think playing with a DS4 is crap. Stop blaming users for something that is obviously not right with the game.
 
CLowndes888
To me this sounds like code for "I'm not used to the physics". Change up the steering sensitivity, get a feel what the car does and slowly start improving your lap times. Stop complaining, not every game is perfect from the first day that you play it.
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To me it sounds like BMW factory test driver claimes BMW M4 he is testing has an error on Steering Wheel - some adoptive steering mechanism locked or has a factory failure. Beacause it blocks Wheel when going full counter steer.
You randomly visit a factory and witness it saying, What a looser, this is just the G-forces and physiques.

Give me that car - I show you kids how to drive. Then imagine your face and thougths when you go from a drift right into the Wall :]

Edit:Sorry, I should have said couple of folks were testing on weekend track, not a pro testvdriver.
 
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Lord Protector
it's not so much about lap times.. they can be similar yes, but try going drifting with the M4 and not get killed..
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Not only this, but trying to correct a mistake, or trying to battle with it is a nightmare.


I played the closed beta pretty extensively and never had an issue catching the car, or counter-steering, and now it feels like the controller is caked in some kind of mud... it's really odd, GT games have been about simulation type racing you can do with a controller and this change has made it very hard to play with a controller...
 
Aight I see what y'all are talking about. Yesterday when I was doing the 30 Lap Endurance mission, there were a couple times where one of the tires would slip and lose traction. Once your car veers off one direction you can't save it AT ALL. I was able to correct minor fish tailing but I had to damn near bring the car to a halt. Also, I'm seeing the delay y'all talk about as well. When the Porsche got up on the rumble strip, the tires lost traction and the cars tail end slipped out. When you try to correct it however, it's almost like it's overly delayed and you HAVE to turn the complete other direction to get it to respond. However once it responds, you find yourself fishtailing in the complete opposite direction of the way you were trying to correct originally. PD gotta fix this cause this damn near forces DS4 to have flawless driving if they want to have any fun in Endurance races..
 
To add to all the oddities that have people are identifying/researching, here's another one I think I've figured out now.

TRGTspecialist
There's also something a bit odd-feeling with steering when the stick is near-centred, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is yet (it's only a minor thing anyway).
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So it seems that the game adjusts steering saturation depending on your speed. Saturation is the %age input on your controller that translates to 100% steering in the game. It is like a deadzone setting, reducing the available input range of your controller stick, but at the far ends of its input, rather than at its centre.

At lower speeds, PD appears to have set saturation to be less than 100% controller input. You can see this if you stop your car, and slowly start moving your controller stick. You'll see the steering wheel in-game stop moving before you've moved your stick all the way to the right/left. This has the effect of making small steering inputs at low speeds more sensitive than they really should be. I don't know why PD have done this.

Additionally, I think this is combining with the game's overly low steering linearity in a bad way. Low linearity means that, normally, the steering is insensitive to small inputs (eg. moving the stick from 0-50% only moves in-game steering from 0-25%), but conversely, steering is sensitive to larger inputs (so moving the stick from 50-100% moves in-game steering from 25-100%).

Because of the saturation thing I'm not entirely sure that the game has overly low linearity, but I suspect it does because when I was driving the Gr.3 Jag round BB Raceway, on the banked sections, where you're at high speed and having to maintain a large, steady steering input, the car felt quite twitchy and difficult to manage.


If I'm correct about these saturation and linearity settings, then PD have managed to create a setting that is both sensitive at low speeds with small steering inputs, and high speeds with large inputs. This is very counter-intuitive - with other games I'm used to one or the other, but not both! I think it's this that's giving me the 'odd' feeling mentioned above, and combined with the game's slow steering speed, it's really making it more difficult to anticipate what the car is doing than it should be.

I mean these things aren't game-breaking or unplayable or anything, but I am in the bizarre situation where I now have better controller settings for PCARS2 (which actually has options to adjust all this stuff) than a for GT game..............no offence to SMS, but if you'd said that to me a month ago, I would have laughed at you!
 
TRGTspecialist
...if you stop your car, and slowly start moving your controller stick. You'll see the steering wheel in-game stop moving before you've moved your stick all the way to the right/left.
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Multiple people have mentioned that, even with videos, but no one has noticed that the wheels continue turning after the steering wheel stops!

Stop the car. Inside camera. Turn the stick until the steering wheel stops turning. Outside camera from the front. Turn the stick more and the wheels turn more.

Isn't it just the steering wheel showing its limited angle? I don't think this is relevant to the countersteer problem? But feel free to correct me.

I didn't have the time to think about your whole comment but it did sound reasonable. Just had to comment on this.
 
CLowndes888
To me this sounds like code for "I'm not used to the physics". Change up the steering sensitivity, get a feel what the car does and slowly start improving your lap times. Stop complaining, not every game is perfect from the first day that you play it.
Click to expand...
I agree to a point, but, those videos are nothing like my setup in terms of lag. That looks like a local issue with the combination of console/game/TV. However, as much as I get on with my controller, I have noticed that as soon as you lose the rear (a nudge or my own mistake), it's really hard to bring it back and you often get whipped into the barrier (where funnily enough, triangle to reverse is so unintuitive after playing so much GTAV, lol). I've found that slowing down or coasting (so just letting go of the controls) is better than trying to counter it. I don't bother with drifting modes though so it doesn't affect me too much. In a 30 lap race on 6-8, it happened maybe twice, and once was kinda' my own fault as I clipped a kerb wrong.

I might try the motion control later and see if that's any good, maybe switching the acceleration to the left stick.
 
Tikkaritsa
Multiple people have mentioned that, even with videos, but no one has noticed that the wheels continue turning after the steering wheel stops!

Stop the car. Inside camera. Turn the stick until the steering wheel stops turning. Outside camera from the front. Turn the stick more and the wheels turn more.
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Ahhh, ok - I never even thought to check, I just assumed the steering wheel would match the wheels. I'm still fairly confident about my conclusion (sensitive at low speeds with small steering inputs, high speeds with large inputs => sadness), but I'll have to rethink what could be the cause then. Even if it's just a visual thing that could be part of it, as I have a habit of looking at the steering wheel angle to help judge what the car is doing. Or maybe PD is mucking about with the linearity curve depending on your car's speed...........will look at it more when I get home.
 
TRGTspecialist
To add to all the oddities that have people are identifying/researching, here's another one I think I've figured out now.



So it seems that the game adjusts steering saturation depending on your speed. Saturation is the %age input on your controller that translates to 100% steering in the game. It is like a deadzone setting, reducing the available input range of your controller stick, but at the far ends of its input, rather than at its centre.

At lower speeds, PD appears to have set saturation to be less than 100% controller input. You can see this if you stop your car, and slowly start moving your controller stick. You'll see the steering wheel in-game stop moving before you've moved your stick all the way to the right/left. This has the effect of making small steering inputs at low speeds more sensitive than they really should be. I don't know why PD have done this.

Additionally, I think this is combining with the game's overly low steering linearity in a bad way. Low linearity means that, normally, the steering is insensitive to small inputs (eg. moving the stick from 0-50% only moves in-game steering from 0-25%), but conversely, steering is sensitive to larger inputs (so moving the stick from 50-100% moves in-game steering from 25-100%).

Because of the saturation thing I'm not entirely sure that the game has overly low linearity, but I suspect it does because when I was driving the Gr.3 Jag round BB Raceway, on the banked sections, where you're at high speed and having to maintain a large, steady steering input, the car felt quite twitchy and difficult to manage.


If I'm correct about these saturation and linearity settings, then PD have managed to create a setting that is both sensitive at low speeds with small steering inputs, and high speeds with large inputs. This is very counter-intuitive - with other games I'm used to one or the other, but not both! I think it's this that's giving me the 'odd' feeling mentioned above, and combined with the game's slow steering speed, it's really making it more difficult to anticipate what the car is doing than it should be.

I mean these things aren't game-breaking or unplayable or anything, but I am in the bizarre situation where I now have better controller settings for PCARS2 (which actually has options to adjust all this stuff) than a for GT game..............no offence to SMS, but if you'd said that to me a month ago, I would have laughed at you!
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Speed adjusting sensitivity is ok imho. It's just the responsiveness of steering that laggy.
 
I maybe missing something, but wheel animations have little to do with the responsiveness of the steering.

On a basic level GT Sport feels very similar to Assetto Corsa. Difference being, it's near impossible to drive with the visible wheel in AC as it's flirting left to right and looks ridiculous. In GT Sport I can make similar corrections, and while the steering similar, the wheel animation is far more stable, in fact it could pass for someone using a wheel. I was worried about not being able to remove the visible wheel in GT Sport for this very reason. But it's become a non-issue.
 
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TRGTspecialist
To add to all the oddities that have people are identifying/researching, here's another one I think I've figured out now.



So it seems that the game adjusts steering saturation depending on your speed. Saturation is the %age input on your controller that translates to 100% steering in the game. It is like a deadzone setting, reducing the available input range of your controller stick, but at the far ends of its input, rather than at its centre.

At lower speeds, PD appears to have set saturation to be less than 100% controller input. You can see this if you stop your car, and slowly start moving your controller stick. You'll see the steering wheel in-game stop moving before you've moved your stick all the way to the right/left. This has the effect of making small steering inputs at low speeds more sensitive than they really should be. I don't know why PD have done this.

Additionally, I think this is combining with the game's overly low steering linearity in a bad way. Low linearity means that, normally, the steering is insensitive to small inputs (eg. moving the stick from 0-50% only moves in-game steering from 0-25%), but conversely, steering is sensitive to larger inputs (so moving the stick from 50-100% moves in-game steering from 25-100%).

Because of the saturation thing I'm not entirely sure that the game has overly low linearity, but I suspect it does because when I was driving the Gr.3 Jag round BB Raceway, on the banked sections, where you're at high speed and having to maintain a large, steady steering input, the car felt quite twitchy and difficult to manage.


If I'm correct about these saturation and linearity settings, then PD have managed to create a setting that is both sensitive at low speeds with small steering inputs, and high speeds with large inputs. This is very counter-intuitive - with other games I'm used to one or the other, but not both! I think it's this that's giving me the 'odd' feeling mentioned above, and combined with the game's slow steering speed, it's really making it more difficult to anticipate what the car is doing than it should be.

I mean these things aren't game-breaking or unplayable or anything, but I am in the bizarre situation where I now have better controller settings for PCARS2 (which actually has options to adjust all this stuff) than a for GT game..............no offence to SMS, but if you'd said that to me a month ago, I would have laughed at you!
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An excellent analysis. A couple of standard presets for controllers combined with a wealth of options to control linearity, dead zones, speed sensitivity etc. sounds like it would do the trick. One of the problems with "one size fits all" presets is that one size doesn't fit all.
 
10
I apologise for the vertical videos but it's the only way the camera works on my phone, but hopefully the following videos will help.



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That's definitely your TV. Are you sure that game mode is enabled? Do you have a 4K tv?
 

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