F.I.T.T WSR/Senna F3 Challenge

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by Pete05, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. shaunm80

    shaunm80

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    Thank you for the review. I am glad that you enjoyed my tune and somehow managed to get the best time in it. Consistent times set for the entire field really so great job! Cheers :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
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  2. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    Thank you for all the time and effort you put into testing. I Will take your feedback under advisement and try to improve.
     
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  3. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Thank you for the time and work in the car. Great time it as well.
    I had the rear softer to let you get on the gas harder and sooner without it trying to ditch on you.
     
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  4. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Thanks, your car was first back on track, had to check my remarks and is solution so simple, for understanding my remarks you can try altering your car toe to -0.16 / +0.14, on my hands it cut out lot of time and added some stability more on car. That toe keeps your car traveling balance identical, but adds lot of mechanical grip on tires, if polishing around that out would take more out from time.

    Tthere is trap coming along with it, but truth inside.

    Tested your car against my remarks, first keeping just identical locking rate but changing timing of locking as LSD values 15/28/11, more stability, then reduced one from brake side to 15/28/10, both are feeling fine and making handling more stable. Something about locking ;)

    @MrGrado, tested your car also against my remarks, reduced rear arb to 3 and replaced that weight transfer reduction by adding one on rear dampers extension, to value 6, lapped 1:23 on first try on these, weight carrying side can now go over curb without losing tail. Rear is only slightly softer now, but arb is not anymore kicking both tires so hard when hitting curb.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2015
  5. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Thank you for the review and I'm glad you enjoyed the car :cheers:

    I think the suspension might be a bit stiff, probably as a result of the high load line I prefer to take through turn 1. Its a favourite corner of mine and I think I personalised the car too much to suit my own line which might have hampered it elsewhere and for other drivers :tup:
     
  6. xande1959

    xande1959

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    I feel that I will have a race car now in this category thanks for test
     
  7. Soren Jacquet

    Soren Jacquet

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    it´s me that say thanks to you guys for make those different tunes , it was a plessur to test them
     
  8. Motor City Hami

    Motor City Hami

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    @Otaliema I am building your tune right now and it lists a car wash. I don't remember seeing car wash in the rules. That has to be worth at least a tenth. :lol:
     
  9. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Clean is fast ;)
     
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  10. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    :lol: At least you won't have to chamois it dry. A full lap at speed should take car of that. Just try not to get any water on the seat :yuck:
     
  11. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Tried your car against my remarks, understanding your choice to reduce that 50, that would be really too much, as said in my notes "few kilos", that was close to right amount.
    First tried 10 and 15 more on front, ten told already problem, it will upset rear grip what is already running on limits. Tested few variations and ended on 569/704 , 14 kilos would grip front enough and 4 is enough on rear to stabilize it.
     
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  12. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    That's rather ironic, during my tuning final aero testing. I almost settled on a setting of 570/715 but felt it was too slippery to be consistently fast for a range of skill levels.
     
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  13. Motor City Hami

    Motor City Hami

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    The most fun thing about this F3 competition was seeing how each tuner approached the tune. I could sense what handling problem that they were trying to solve, what they were trying to tune around. Once again, differing approaches lead to very, very close lap time results. Every time that I test drive in a FITT competition, I see things that I didn’t even think about testing. So, every time that I test drive, my tuning gets a little better. Think about that for a moment if you have never test drove in a FITT event.

    This competition cost me 11,002,750 million credits for 11 cars and 11 oil changes. I wanted every car to be tested in the exact same mileage range for each tune. Each tune received ten clean laps, meaning that if I dropped two wheel or more off the tarmac, that lap didn’t count in the ten. I tried to create a focused driving environment; no music, wife and kid in bed. Only tire and engine noises were in the room. I like this car so much that I was tempted to wear my racing helmet, shoes and gloves just to get further into that zone.

    Test done with G27 wheel with Nixim brake pedal mod, FFB 7, sensitivity 10 and ABS 1.

    @Motor City Hami – lap time 123.735 - DC 9.5
    What can I say? I drove it like it was a time trial tune… because, well… lap time challenges are… uh… time trials. I would also choose this tune for a 3 hour enduro because it is fast and easy to put on any line that you want.

    @DolHaus – lap time 123.930 – DC 9.8
    So quick in the high speed sections. Nicely done. Great tune. Did everything I could to try to beat the time with my car. Ran them back to back, mine then yours.

    @Pete05 – lap time 124.321 – DC 9.2
    There is nothing wrong with being close to stock settings with this car. Noone else moved so few levers and found this much speed. I hereby nominate Pete as the “most efficient” tuner. The tune is great at getting to the apex. Turn in is really smooth - really perfect. It does need more mid-corner to exit grip as I could not get back to throttle as quickly as the tunes placing above this.

    @Bowtie-muscle – lap time 124.576 - DC 9.5
    Handling is spot on. No comments on improvements. You left a little on the table with the gearbox.

    @Otaliema - lap time 124.624 – DC 9.4
    Solid tune. You need to be right on the limit, right on the line to get a quick lap with this car. I did have to lift in Hawthorn Bend so maybe more aero would have pushed this car higher in the rankings?

    @MrGrado – lap time 124.711 - DC 10
    One of the easiest tunes to drive. Really not one single bad habit. I really liked the handling of this tune, thus the DC of 10. You can almost drift the rear a little with some trail braking. I could really feel the proper slip angle at the rear of the car. Hawthorn Bend was easily flat out, even on a sloppy lap. Handling wise, this tune should be on the podium. I think that the stock gearbox may have held this tune back. You cannot compete against this level of talent without optimizing the gearbox to the fullest.

    @shaunm80 – lap time 124.816 – DC 9
    Fantastic turn in. Flat out through Hawthorn Bend and the other high speed areas. With such a great turn in, I could use the brakes far less with this tune, more than with any other. Only one issue; I spun this car a few times while getting aggressive on corner exit. The outside rear wheel turned red, causing me to be easier on the throttle at exit in the high speed corners. Maybe test a few lower LSD Accel settings.

    @sinof1337 – lap time 125.683 - DC 8
    Good turn in. Needs more front grip on exit when pushed to the limit.

    @Ridox2JZGTE – lap time 125.770 - DC 7
    Gets down to the apex well, but has mid-corner understeer. The gearbox was ok, but not optimized for Brands Hatch.

    @xande1959 – lap time 125.861 – DC 8
    Good turn in. Needs more front grip on exit when pushed to the limit. The gearbox cost a bunch of time as 5th gear is barely used.

    @fordracer – lap time 125.864 – DC 7.5
    Great corner entry grip. Could use more front grip on exit. I would recommend giving up some of that front camber to get more exit grip. Keep taking front camber away until you get more front grip on exit, without killing turn in. Maybe try 1.5/3.0 and see if the corner balance improves.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  14. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    The gearbox uses real life ratios offered by Hewland specific for MK9, I could use tighter spread on the 2nd to 5th, but might need more gear changes as well :) The final drive option is very limited from Hewland, the next higher final will need a redo on all gear ratio. So it was my own doing to use limited range of ratios :lol:

    About mid corner understeer, the front aero could help lessened it as well lower front ARB ( I intentionally use stiffer front ARB to make it safer for racing ) Again, I was going for safer route than edgy ride :)

    Pretty happy with scores and lap times from all testers :cheers: Anyone who wanted more wild ride out of my submission, fit SM or SS tire :D
     
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  15. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    Thank you Hami for the reviewing the tunes and a special thanks for the notes about my tune, including my award for "most efficient" :bowdown: :lol: I was as brave as I dared to be with my very limited knowledge of tuning.
    Sorry to have cost you over $11 million though :scared: That's certainly one dedicated method there :cheers: Glad you've enjoyed driving the many ways of tuning the Ralt-Toyota. It's a great little car :) :tup:
     
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  16. shaunm80

    shaunm80

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    Thanks for the review. Glad you enjoyed my tune. I will take your recommendations about the LSD on board for this car too. :)
     
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  17. DolHaus

    DolHaus

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    Thank you very much for testing and the review, fantastic lap time, very happy you enjoyed it and that it could run so close to your own car, great job :cheers:
     
  18. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    Close and far, probably your harder spring rate resist so much at that low aero isn't giving enough pressure, if that aero is used on @Ridox2JZGTE car, it would understeer as hell, car starts to understeer if one click more on rear, and oversteer if front having one more, and if adding to both ends it still slams body too deep on ground and destroy car maneuverability.

    If assuming at those wings now on Ridox car are "perfect" and were not counting other parts than springs, then your car should go pretty fine with 614(613.627) / 756(755.576) aero settings. Not tested, just counted. But will test on next time on ps3. Edit: tried quickly, it his close to good, there cones problem with your weight transfer reductions absence, your car suspension can't handle aero pressure much more than maybe 10 kilos more than those, actually that 10 would be too much, if there is such amount pressure your car will travel on nearly bottomed position on suspension, not capable to take hit, and when speed reduces it rises too much to chance behavior during speed change, waves on body.
    Didn't find (yet) optimal for those, because minor change on dampers would make it work well, but playing only on aero there were two different ends what tried, 616/760 (on heavy end) and 612/753 (light end), there is something..
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
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  19. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    Thanks for the kind review, was it individual gearing or do you think the final? Always appreciate the feedback, thanks for the effort and fast time :D
     
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  20. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    I'm not ready to post my full review yet but seeing as though I've already tested you tune, I'll jump in here & give you my thoughts about your gearbox.
    Because we don't use 1st, who cares really. I think your 2nd & 3rd ratios are ok but 4th & 5th could be a little shorter. Because of that, I'd leave the final drive ratio and adjust 4th & 5th individually :) :tup:
     
  21. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Thank you for the drive and feed back. I forgot to put a note to turn in early at Hawthorne and let it push through the turn at full throttle.

    I'll load times later tonight.
     
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  22. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    @Otaliema 616/759, IMO best balance if touching only aero.
     
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  23. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Tuners; @Bowtie-muscle @DolHaus @fordracer @Motor City Hami @MrGrado @Pete05 @Ridox2JZGTE @shaunm80 @sinof1337 @xande1959
    Testers; @biffa3 @macdog54 @Soren Jacquet

    Standings after @OdeFinn results added.
    BrandsHatch 80's GP Lap Time
    1 Motor City Hami 1:24.810 +00.000
    2 Otaliema 1:24.969 +00.159
    3 DolHaus 1:25.087 +00.277
    4 Pete05 1:25.200 +00.390
    5 Bowtie-muscle 1:25.321 +00.511

    BrandsHatch 80's GP DC Score
    1 shaunm80 9.53
    2 DolHaus 9.37
    3 Bowtie-muscle 9.33
    4 Ridox2JZTE 9.33
    5 Otaliema 9.17

    WSR BrandsHatch 80's GP
    1:23.644; Pete05's tune Driven By Soren Jacquet
    Most Consistent OdeFinn 1.217
    Fastest Average Soren Jacquet 84.629

    Current standings after @Motor City Hami results added.
    BrandsHatch 80's GP Lap Time
    1 Motor City Hami 1:24.541 +00.000
    2 DolHaus 1:24.798 +00.257
    3 Otaliema 1:24.883 +00.342
    4 Pete05 1:24.980 +00.439
    5 Bowtie-muscle 1:25.135 +00.593

    BrandsHatch 80's GP DC Score
    1 DolHaus 9.48
    2 shaunm80 9.40
    3 Bowtie-muscle 9.38
    4 MrGrado 9.35
    5 Otaliema 9.23

    WSR BrandsHatch 80's GP
    1:23.644; Pete05's tune Driven By Soren Jacquet
    Most Consistent OdeFinn 1.217
    Fastest Average Soren Jacquet 84.629
     
  24. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    Thanks @Otaliema for the invaluable help by keeping score :bowdown: :cheers:
    I have to say, with the limited amount of tuning I did, I never in my wildest dreams expected to feature in the results where I'm currently at :eek: :O
    As I submitted my tune, I was thinking it's be good to be close and a huge bonus if I wasn't last. To say I'm shocked is a huge understatement.
     
  25. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    @Bowtie-muscle this is not exactly on same line as my earlier suggestions to other tuners, tried to keep base feeling on same on your car, altered only LSD, maybe just because I hate locks where decel side is over accel. That made most of your car "fails" on my hands.
    Here's video where I tested widened lines with it after change, and early throttle opening. So bad lap, but not so slow. 10/13/12 used there.


    ^ this car I would take to races!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  26. Bowtie-muscle

    Bowtie-muscle

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    Thanks for the video, the line I was running was the same but slower. Will try it with lower decel LSD.
     
  27. OdeFinn

    OdeFinn

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    My lines on video were quite terrible, made it go wide, and tried to shake suspension and lock. Smooth good lines and it definitely clock under 1:23.

    I replaced that braking side with higher preload, it will affect during braking too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2015
  28. Otaliema

    Otaliema

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    Three tunes left to go. :tup: But the munchkins are awake time for me to head off to chase them around. Promised to help them make rolls today. So gotta go get the kitchen ready for a disaster of epic portions. :odd: :lol:
     
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  29. coryclifford

    coryclifford

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    Sushi rolls? Lobster rolls? Cinnamon rolls? Spring rolls?
     
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  30. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    Hey guys, it's review time :)
    All testing was conducted using the buttons on a DS3 with manual transmission & gear changes made at the redline on the tachometer . I did 5 clean laps as a 'getting to know you session' and that was followed by 10 clean laps that were timed. The results are as follows:

    @Motor City Hami
    Lap time: 1:22:882 DC: 10.0
    Impression of the tune:
    It's almost as if this tune is in another world it's so damn fast. My first timed lap was a 1:23:256! It has excellent power down traction out of turn 2, is solid, stable, inspires confidence and invites you to push harder. You can really trust the front end but the rear will let go if you get too brave & try cornering over the limit. Although it's a little short on the gearing, I'm not paying for the engines so send the bills to the guy with the sweaty brow :D
    The timed lap had sector splits of 16.7, 11.5, 13.5, 19.5 & 21.6. The best sector times I managed were 16.6, 11.4, 13.3, 19.4 & 21.5.

    @Pete05
    Lap time: 1:23:151 DC: 9.0
    Impression of the tune:
    A lot faster than I thought it would be. As I've said, it's as good as I could make it with the limited tuning experience I have.
    The timed lap had sectors splits of 16.8, 11.6, 13.4, 19.7 & 21.6. The only sector I had a better time on was sector 2 at a 11.5.

    @DolHaus
    Lap time: 1:23:589 DC: 9.4
    Impression of the tune:
    This one's fast but a bit more on the edge. If you step over that edge it's hard to bring it back. I had to work hard to get a smooth run out of turn 2 and I felt the gear change points to be very similar to my tune.
    The timed lap had sector splits of 16.9, 11.6, 13.6, 19.6 & 21.7. The best sector times I managed were
    16.9, 11.6, 13.4, 19.5 & 21.5 so it has the potential to go faster if you can pull it all together.

    @Otaliema
    Lap time: 1:23:665 DC: 9.5
    Impression of the tune:
    I felt this one was fast considering the downforce levels you have to work with. It's got very good high speed stability, good power down traction out of turns 2 & 4 and I liked the spacing of the gear ratios.
    The timed lap had sector splits of
    16.9, 11.6, 13.3, 19.7 & 21.8. The best sector times I managed were
    16.9, 11.5, 13.3, 19.7 & 21.6 so again, potentially faster times are there for the taking.

    @shaunm80
    Lap time: 1:23:692 DC: 9.3
    Impression of the tune:
    Good stability in all corners although it's a little edgy on the brakes into turns 2 & 4 and then you have to work hard for clean power down traction. It's easy flat at turn 5, if you kiss the kerbs at turns 6 & 7 it won't throw you off, has a good spread of ratios in the 'box and if you attack turn 9 with a little too much gusto, you can feel the rear end do a little steering for you. Splits over the timed lap were 17.1, 11.7, 13.5, 19.6 & 21.5. The best sector times I managed were
    16.8, 11.6, 13.4, 19.6 & 21.5 so dipping down to a 1:22:9xx isn't dreaming.

    @Bowtie-muscle
    Lap time: 1:23:846 DC: 9.2
    Impression of the tune:
    This is a tune with a trustworthy front end & crazy good turn-in but if you stray onto an outside kerb, you're going for a wild ride. It's got very good power down out of turn 2 and is solid everywhere else. As I've mentioned previously, the final two ratios in the gearbox are too long & that has cost it time in a field as closely stacked as this.
    Split times over the timed lap were
    17.1, 11.7, 13.4, 19.8 & 21.6. The best sector times I managed were 16.9, 11.6, 13.3, 19.6 & 21.6.

    @MrGrado
    Lap time: 1:24:321 DC: 8.9
    Impression of the tune:
    I found this tune to be the edgiest of the whole field. It has a front end so endowed with grip the rear can't keep up. When it oversteers it's very hard to catch the slide. I had turn-in oversteer at turns 1, 5 & 9. A little more grip in the rear & it would be almost perfect. Like Motor City Hami's tune, it's got short gearing that had the tachometer in the red into turns 1 & 5. The timed lap had sector times of 17.0, 11.8, 13.6, 20.0 & 21.8. The best sector times I managed were 16.8, 11.6, 13.5, 19.5 & 21.6 so it's potential is much better than I could produce over one lap.

    @fordracer
    Lap time: 1:24:739 DC: 8.5
    Impression of the tune:
    This tune has a rear end that's more planted than an old growth forest! Unfortunately the front is too prone to understeer with the front tyres cherry red in the turns. As someone who doesn't play well with a vague front end, this had an effect on my times. It puts it's power down really well at turn 2 but the understeer meant I had to wait at turn 9 before I could get back to the throttle. The same can be said about turn 4 which ultimately affected speed down the long straight towards turn 5. Sector times from the timed lap were 17.1, 11.7, 13.7, 20.0 & 22.1 with my best sectors being 17.0, 11.6, 13.5, 19.9 & 21.9.

    @Ridox2JZGTE
    Lap time: 1:24:921 DC: 8.8
    Impression of the tune:
    I can only describe this tune as a case of what could've been. I tried really hard to stitch together a quick lap but when this one gets away from you it's gone forever. The front end is good in slow to medium speed corners but falls into understeer in the high speed stuff. I had to be really patient with the power down out of turn 2 & I feel it's hurt by the low downforce levels meaning it can't carry a high corner speed. The timed lap produced sectors of 17.3, 11.7, 13.6, 20.1 & 22.0. The best sector times I managed were
    17.0, 11.6, 13.4, 19.9 & 21.8.

    @xande1959
    Lap time: 1:24:940 DC: 7.9
    Impression of the tune:
    This tune, more than any other here, was hurt by the choice of gear ratios. It was hard to decide wether to use 2nd or 3rd at turn 2 and 3rd or 4th at turns 4 & 8. Adding to the woes was the fact 5th gear was too long for this track. On the positive side was it's power down traction out of turn 2, it's consistency, the ability to save a slide and the way it is unaffected by riding the kerbs. The timed lap had sector split times of 17.2, 11.8, 13.5, 19.9 & 22.3. The best sectors I managed were 17.2, 11.7, 13.5, 19.9 & 22.0.

    @sinof1337
    Lap time: 1:25:427 DC: 8.0
    Impression of the tune:
    This tune has the lowest combined downforce of all the tunes. If it understeers, it's of the terminal variety & lifting off the power won't rescue the situation. That made it very hard to commit & trust the front end and be consistent. The timed lap had sector split times of 17.4, 11.7, 13.7, 20.2 & 22.2. The best sector times I managed were 17.2, 11.7, 13.4, 19.9 & 22.0.