FIA Race Discussion [Archive]

[Roman_GT23]

Yesterday was the stupidest race ever and the penalties for not pitting should have been adjusted to either 40 sec or a minute. Stupid Stupid Stupid!!!!! I'd rather go play bumper cars in Tokyo! Even with me "cheating" I got in a room full of aliens and was only 14th.

 

[Pigems]

Yesterday was the stupidest race ever and the penalties for not pitting should have been adjusted to either 40 sec or a minute. Stupid Stupid Stupid!!!!! I'd rather go play bumper cars in Tokyo! Even with me "cheating" I got in a room full of aliens and was only 14th.

All penalties were served though, so how is it cheating? It would only be cheating if someone found a way to run softs only and not serve the penalty. It was just an alternative strategy, nothing more.

 

[Roman_GT23]

All penalties were served though, so how is it cheating? It would only be cheating if someone found a way to run softs only and not serve the penalty. It was just an alternative strategy, nothing more.

While this is true I personally think it should have been +20 per tire compound required that you did not use....or like someone said last night flat out DQ because that's what would have happened in real life. Guess PD has more work to do......

 

[jimihemmy]

All penalties were served though, so how is it cheating? It would only be cheating if someone found a way to run softs only and not serve the penalty. It was just an alternative strategy, nothing more.

I had a post race discussion yesterday about this. One racer called out the racer who finished P1 but dropped to P4 because of the penalty. He was called out for cheating and called it against the spirit of racing. I told them that while yes, it is against the spirit of racing it was not cheating. It is a loophole that almost worked....he finished 14 seconds behind because of the penalty.

I didn't use it because I didn't have the pace for it to have helped me. I still finished 14th (Q19).....

 

[chuyler1]

It's reading the rulebook and finding the right strategy, if you saw someone do it during your first race, adapt your strategy.

I am more offended by the nearly 3 second per lap difference between Gr.4 vehicles that allegedly have BOP applied. If the Atenza is going to be slow in a straight line at Monza...you gotta allow it to corner better at a track like Laguna Seca to stay on pace. Seriously, I "cheat" and delete an 18s pit stop AND I run two stints of soft tires falling off no more than 1.5s from my qualifying lap every lap...and I have no chance of winning the race against those who run the official strategy?

 

[CurbHog]

Race 9 - Laguna Seca
I had done a lot of practice for this race and I was feeling confident.
Got my lap time down to 1.37.1 in the McLaren 650s.
As I came in to this race I had 11 on the door and needed to be able to get in the top 3 spots to move the needle on points. The room offered 140 points for first place.
My qualifying went well, and on my second hot lap I secured a second place on the grid.
My strategy was S7/M7/H1.
At the turn after the first downhill things started to unravel a bit as I came into the turn awkwardly and bumped the leader, I was holding back not to gain an undue advantage and left the door open for the Chevy behind me to advance .. a BMW was bullying me into turn 5 and then up the hill we went towards the corkscrew... I was holding my breath as we were a tight cluster of 3 cars going in and I was bumped and went on the inside and off track but managed to stay with the group as we started lap 2 .... now I needed to focus and get back in teh game ... I knew I had the pace... Watch it !
The race edit show the first few laps that sets the stage for one of my best races when it comes to composure and comeback after a frustrating start...

 

[CurbHog]

I dont care what you say, but if it is stipulated that you have to use all 3 compounds, and you DO NOT do that, you are violating the rules. "Exploiting a loop hole" it is cheating in my book.

 

[theschledy]

I dont care what you say, but if it is stipulated that you have to use all 3 compounds, and you DO NOT do that, you are violating the rules. "Exploiting a loop hole" it is cheating in my book.

I think we're going a little too far out of the way to antagonize people for PDs error.

If a racing driver is hit with a drive-thru penalty, and still manages to win the race, are they a cheater too? Same goes with any major sport, there's fouls/penalties for rule infractions. There's a punishment for the infraction, and then the game moves on. I don't see how this is any different.

Ayrton Senna said it best: "If you no longer go for a gap which exists, you are no longer a racing driver."

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I dont care what you say, but if it is stipulated that you have to use all 3 compounds, and you DO NOT do that, you are violating the rules. "Exploiting a loop hole" it is cheating in my book.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...wn-2021-loopholes.4jPifLdt4Q0UKMw3v9VE2i.html

Edit: Senna's quote I used to justify all kinds of shady stuff. It was originally used to cover up that he on purpose rammed a competing racer of the track to secure his championship.
Not the kind of racer quote to use to justify something with rules IMHO.

Edit 2:. Curbhog, excellent racing!

 

[cfawesome]

Race 9 - Laguna Seca
I had done a lot of practice for this race and I was feeling confident.
Got my lap time down to 1.37.1 in the McLaren 650s.
As I came in to this race I had 11 on the door and needed to be able to get in the top 3 spots to move the needle on points. The room offered 140 points for first place.
My qualifying went well, and on my second hot lap I secured a second place on the grid.
My strategy was S7/M7/H1.
At the turn after the first downhill things started to unravel a bit as I came into the turn awkwardly and bumped the leader, I was holding back not to gain an undue advantage and left the door open for the Chevy behind me to advance .. a BMW was bullying me into turn 5 and then up the hill we went towards the corkscrew... I was holding my breath as we were a tight cluster of 3 cars going in and I was bumped and went on the inside and off track but managed to stay with the group as we started lap 2 .... now I needed to focus and get back in teh game ... I knew I had the pace... Watch it !
The race edit show the first few laps that sets the stage for one of my best races when it comes to composure and comeback after a frustrating start...

You ran a great race! Your win was much deserved. I was the driver of the Corvette behind you, and while I felt like my pace was okay I just had absolutely no answer for your consistency after your lap 1 mistake. Hope to race with you again!

 

[The359]

 

[Rangeraus]

Ayrton Senna said it best: "If you no longer go for a gap which exists, you are no longer a racing driver."

For the record... Senna said this two weeks after he deliberately crashed into his rival at 160mph to win the World Championship (which he only admitted one year later).

I wince every time someone uses this quote to try and justify anything.

 

[The359]

I'd also argue that people are not understanding what Senna meant.

Senna was saying that a driver that is cautious and does not attempt to fight for a position even if the opportunity is not the best is no longer a racing driver. This is completely different from exploiting a loophole, and obviously Senna used this justification to drive dirty.

Further, and this is a term the FIA likes to use a lot, although the infringment at Laguna Seca was not a technical violation as everyone served their penalties, it is against the spirit of the race and championship, at least in races where only a select few drivers used the exploit.

 

[Ashthebash]

I'm just glad yesterday's loophole came out in an exhibition series and before the update. Maybe they could tweak the penalty in the update to save all the debate as to whether it's cheating or not?

Saturday's Nations - what we thinking? I don't think the loophole will work here! Looking at 9S-9S-6M-1H or 12S-12M-1H myself with the three stopper being favourite. Hards are bloody useless and will only be on for a lap

Edit: Just ran the three stop (badly) but I think it's more than viable. There were some very good drivers in the lobby (a 73k 'TX3' driver being one) who were running a two stop and if I hadn't made a couple of daft mistakes while I was still waking up I would have been right with them at the end.

The big advantage to it I see (as well as being on the soft for longer) is you're spending more time in a lighter car, as you'll get about 18 laps out before you need to refuel while others are refuelling to the end on anything from L10 to L12

 

[MCL1974]

If you no longer go for a gap that does not exist then you are no longer a sim-racing driver

 

[Leggacy]

I came 3rd last night scoring 166 points, pitting lap1 and 6, I thought about going again. I hadn’t realised that it was possible to cheat but I start reading the chat and I decided not to go again. I think I could have got a better score if I cheated but I really don’t want to win that way. In real motorsport the penalty would be disqualification, and I think it should be the same here.

 

[theschledy]

For the record... Senna said this two weeks after he deliberately crashed into his rival at 160mph to win the World Championship (which he only admitted one year later).

I wince every time someone uses this quote to try and justify anything.

He's certainly not the only world champion to do that. And his documentary points out that he did that after the FIA swapped grid positions after he got pole.

But wasn't intending to turn this in to a Senna debate. My point is rules are bent all the time. If you aren't looking for advantages how badly do you really want to win? That's what I'm taking from that quote.

 

[CurbHog]

You ran a great race! Your win was much deserved. I was the driver of the Corvette behind you, and while I felt like my pace was okay I just had absolutely no answer for your consistency after your lap 1 mistake. Hope to race with you again!

@cfawesome Thank you very much ! I do hope we will race again. I looked at your tire wear and the Vette was using the tires quite a bit. You have to work with your pit crew as I think you lost the race in the pit

Hiortintexas Racing

 

[kjeldsen]

All penalties were served though, so how is it cheating? It would only be cheating if someone found a way to run softs only and not serve the penalty. It was just an alternative strategy, nothing more.

The problem with this "cheat" is that it's not the spirit of the game nor meant to be a penalty that can be used as a strategy. Everyone that got that penalty did not really complete the race according to the rules and if it was a real FIA race the penalty would be fixed so that those that followed the rules wouldn't be punished for that.

 

[Canucks_9419]

Either way, it's too late now to fix anything, and it's now on PD's lap to see what happened and come up with a solution for this coming update before the 'new' official season starts so this doesn't continue. Whether that's even more penalty time or full on DQs, who knows.

 

[watto79]

And his documentary points out that he did that after the FIA swapped grid positions after he got pole.

Sorry, Senna nerd here. That's often a miss-reported fact. Pole was always on the "wrong" side of the track before qualification even started. In fact pole was on that side the year before.

It was certainly the wrong side to put pole position and Senna did complain about it, but the FIA didn't change it after Senna recorded the fastest time.

If you no longer go for a gap that does not exist then you are no longer a sim-racing driver

Made my day. Thanks! 👍

 

[stpatty]

The problem with this "cheat" is that it's not the spirit of the game nor meant to be a penalty that can be used as a strategy. Everyone that got that penalty did not really complete the race according to the rules and if it was a real FIA race the penalty would be fixed so that those that followed the rules wouldn't be punished for that.

If it was a real FIA race the situation would never have arisen, because the conditions would have been tested properly, the exploit noted, and a necessary change implemented.

Ed - plus what The359 said below

 

[The359]

If it was a real race, the penalty would have been befitting the crime. The real exploit here is that the game only assigns 20 seconds, when the time should have been longer.

 

[watto79]

If it was a real FIA race the situation would never have arisen, because the conditions would have been tested properly, the exploit noted, and a necessary change implemented.

The FIA can make mistakes too. Schumacher once served a stop go penalty by going into the pits on the last lap, finishing the race in the pits and not losing as much time as he would have done if serving the penalty on any other lap. The rules were changed after that.

It's a shame it happened and hopefully will be rectified either with bigger penalties or the penalty being 20s per compound not used. Or just speed up the pitstop at Laguna Seca. Nearly nodded of waiting to get to the pit box

 

[Rods]

There's a big different between a "cheat" and an "exploit".

Penalties are created to disincentivize an action or behavior. The penalties were simply not big enough here and people chose to take them.

No cheating involved and, to be honest, barely something that should be frowned upon.

 

[Groundfish]

All penalties were served though, so how is it cheating? It would only be cheating if someone found a way to run softs only and not serve the penalty. It was just an alternative strategy, nothing more.

After the fact I should have taken the pen.
I got upset having to pit on tires that were fine.

 

[SmokeyMR2]

Sorry, Senna nerd here. That's often a miss-reported fact. Pole was always on the "wrong" side of the track before qualification even started. In fact pole was on that side the year before.

It was certainly the wrong side to put pole position and Senna did complain about it, but the FIA didn't change it after Senna recorded the fastest time.

Yep in fact Senna said to the officials the pole was in an unfair position benefiting 2nd place and if they didn't swap the pole to the other side he wasn't going to back out into T1 and so there would be a crash, they refused so he followed through on his promise! I think these days he probably would have been given a penalty although I doubt that would have stopped him anyway, he wanted to prove a point and he did.

 

[Rods]

Yep in fact Senna said to the officials the pole was in an unfair position benefiting 2nd place and if they didn't swap the pole to the other side he wasn't going to back out into T1 and so there would be a crash, they refused so he followed through on his promise! I think these days he probably would have been given a penalty although I doubt that would have stopped him anyway, he wanted to prove a point and he did.

Wasn't it common practice for P1 to decide the side he wanted to start in?

 

[milehighmadd]

Before yesterday's race, I got a black screen when trying to qualify. Couldn't set a time since everything was black except for my car indicators. Quitting qual and re-entering didn't do anything.

Has this happened to anyone before?

 

[kjeldsen]

If it was a real FIA race the situation would never have arisen, because the conditions would have been tested properly, the exploit noted, and a necessary change implemented.

Ed - plus what The359 said below

It's a bit like knowing how to put a penalty on another player. It's an exploit but not a cheat?

Honestly I couldn't care less about it i just think it shows how we as players are more than what we may claim to be.