Forza 3 nurburgring reality check

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yeah... infamous and Bogie are repeat offenders as fanboys of GT and Forza, but I tend to enjoy their feuds... guilty pleasure I guess.:sly:

Anyway, no arguments there cuz' you would have to be picky as hell not to enjoy FM3 Ring. Its not as realistic as GT5 version but I don't care. At least I can impersonate Walter Rohrl with a Porsche GT3RS that does'nt sound like a vacuum cleaner. :lol:

But GT5 Ring is superior, no question about it.
 
I love being a fanboy of GT and Forza...Racing games ROCK. Oh, and I am a fanboy of Race Pro 09 as well. Guilty as charged!
 
yeah... infamous and Bogie are repeat offenders as fanboys of GT and Forza, but I tend to enjoy their feuds... guilty pleasure I guess.:sly:

Anyway, no arguments there cuz' you would have to be picky as hell not to enjoy FM3 Ring. Its not as realistic as GT5 version but I don't care. At least I can impersonate Walter Rohrl with a Porsche GT3RS that doesn't sound like a vacuum cleaner. :lol:

But GT5 Ring is superior, no question about it.

Agree,its down to the one you enjoy the most,I like the one from GT5 for its realism and how the LFA drives while blasting in the mountain range,which its quite awesome.

By the other hand there is the FM3 with the Audi TDI and that one is also quite awesome to blast,so in conclusion,is down to which one do you like the most.
 
My biggest issue with the Forza 3 ring is definitely the curbs, in particular the extra paved sections. They have been a part of the track for some time so I thought they should be there. Forza Ring is kinda fun to drive, though it takes a while to get used to the scenery and the aforementioned curb issues.

But being another person who has done the Real life, GT5 and Forza Ring GT5's is far superior especially since the times I've been there it was either a beautiful sunny day or gloomy so GT has it covered :-)
 
yeah... infamous and Bogie are repeat offenders as fanboys of GT and Forza, but I tend to enjoy their feuds... guilty pleasure I guess.:sly:

Speak for yourself; I'm no 'fanboy' of GT. I simply present the facts as they are, and it's no fault of my own that the facts point to GT5 being generally superior to FM3, much to the annoyance of the many real 'fanboys' in this section. If you take a look at my post history, you'll actually see that I've been quite vocal in criticising GT5's standard cars in the past.
 
Speak for yourself; I'm no 'fanboy' of GT. I simply present the facts as they are, and it's no fault of my own that the facts point to GT5 being generally superior to FM3, much to the annoyance of the many real 'fanboys' in this section. If you take a look at my post history, you'll actually see that I've been quite vocal in criticising GT5's standard cars in the past.


Here's a fact, presented as it is: You take yourself very seriously man...

And heres another: Exposing GT5 as generally superior to Forza is an opinion. It will never be more than an opinion. I don't know your driving background infamousDee, and I don't know how you play these games (controller, cheap wheel, quality wheel??) and I don't know if you ever drove on a track for extended time so I don't know on what you base your judgement on these 2 games.

What I know is that I've done my share of real life track time in a variety of cars and I will tell you that these 2 games are not as far apart in the way they depict driving a car on a track as you stated in the past. I will be happy to discuss it with you in a relaxed, openminded way my friend.👍
 
Here's a fact, presented as it is: You take yourself very seriously man...

And heres another: Exposing GT5 as generally superior to Forza is an opinion. It will never be more than an opinion. I don't know your driving background infamousDee, and I don't know how you play these games (controller, cheap wheel, quality wheel??) and I don't know if you ever drove on a track for extended time so I don't know on what you base your judgement on these 2 games.

What I know is that I've done my share of real life track time in a variety of cars and I will tell you that these 2 games are not as far apart in the way they depict driving a car on a track as you stated in the past. I will be happy to discuss it with you in a relaxed, openminded way my friend.👍
Car & Driver
GT5 is marketed as a simulator, and its physics model is extremely realistic. The behavior of the cars is startlingly faithful to their real-life counterparts, and so they respond accordingly to poor driving and when you miss critical braking and turn-in points. In contrast, Forza is extremely forgiving, and provides a much larger margin of error.

the racing is excellent—credit the finely tuned physics engine and attention paid to individual cars’ handling characteristics—and isn’t that what the game is supposed to deliver?

And so Forza is much more of a game than a hard-core simulator, but for the impatient and those less interested in absolute realism, this is hardly a demerit. Forza may feel slightly less realistic than GT5, but that just means inexperienced players can dive right in

Lapping Laguna in both games supported our conclusion that Gran Turismo 5 is the more challenging of the two, punishing players (especially the less-skilled) with its slavish adherence to real-world physics and handling, and both drivers turned in higher lap times than in Forza. Forza, conversely, made us look like pros, its vehicle-dynamics model allowing for often unrealistic cornering speeds. In Forza, for example, the GTI absolutely refused to exhibit anything resembling bad behavior—you’ll notice our less-experienced player turned the faster lap in the VW—turning in crisply no matter the entry speed, while GT5’s VW faithfully recreated the real car’s penchant for tossability, responding to midcorner throttle lifts with a progressive rotation of the back end and a balanced feel. Cooking into corners with the VW in GT5 also sent us realistically understeering through them.

Forza’s physics engine, however, does not feel as comprehensive, as if it were using the one that was employed in Gran Turismo 3 A-spec or GT4 (10 years or so ago!). The experience, to me, is more of an arcade game; easier to jump in and start playing with less of a learning curve. With the GTI, you simply get somewhere close to your braking marks, turn in, and the car zips around the corner under throttle. GT5’s GTI is far touchier, with the front end washing out more dramatically if you carry too much speed. You must be much more precise and have greater finesse to master GT5. I noticed several corners that were particularly tricky in GT5, yet were surprisingly easy to ace in Forza.

Power oversteer, however, is much easier to manage and thus more entertaining in Forza. The M3 frequently slides around under power, but it was easy to catch and modulate. Again, more arcade-like. GT5, conversely, can get pretty wild if you like to go sideways; the drifting events are the most difficult in the entire game because it’s so easy to get crossed up. You really have to be on top of the car’s behavior and it can get away from you very quickly.

the properly warmed sport tires in Gran Turismo felt about the same as the normal tires in Forza.

Going off track in Forza was less detrimental to vehicle speed and control (less realistic) than in GT5.

Overall, they’re both great driving games. But Forza is the game, while GT5 feels more like an actual simulator, with a steeper learning curve, more opportunities for error, and greater configurability.

Forza is what you play with your friends when hanging out; GT5 is what you attempt to master in solitude—and what makes you end up throwing the controller across the room, because it’s more difficult than it looks.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q4/gran_turismo_5_vs._forza_motorsport_3-feature


I always thought that FM3 Ring is too wide, but also GT5 Ring is a bit narrow. There are places where I remember seeing photos where there could easily be 4 car width on some parts of track, which doesn't seem to be the case in GT
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5168253#post5168253


I don't know how people are coming to the conclusion that FM ring is wider than the real ring. I don't see a damn difference at all.
FM3:
4121336968_606685781c_tudb.jpg


Real:
4904859513_1efd4112f6_q7ws.jpg


GT5:
nrburgringnordschleifej76z.jpg
 
To see if the track is wider overall, you need to check across the whole track and not just the carousel turn. I do think GT5's 'ring layout is more accurate but that's not saying Forza's is bad at all. Both do a pretty good job at representing the 'ring.

And zero, your reference to C&D's article is from a new writer who, based on his biased writing style, is a big Sony/GT fan. In the article has a picture showing a wheel that doesn't work on the 360, and the 2 reviewers playing Forza with controller, yet they say they compared both games with wheels. Many asked which wheel was used on Forza and no response.
 
As cuco stated, that C&D review was a bit off in terms of information about how they conducted the review, although its a magazine that I respect a great deal so there is alot in the review that is relevant.

I'm not leaning toward one game or another here guys. I just wan't to point that when somebody states that GT5's driving physic is soooooooo superior to FM3 I think its not that clear.

Example: FM3 is not that realistic with RWD cars. Your driving have to be pretty sloppy to loose a ZR-1 in a corner, even the most off-camber of them. In real life I'm sure you have to be on top of your game with a 600+ HP in these situations. :scared:

GT5 on the other hand is a sinner on the other side of the spectrum. There is no way a 300hp Nissan 350z on stock tires is THAT difficult to drive around a circuit. No way you have to feather the throttle that much exiting a corner. The TopGear Lotus Elise event is another example. Its like its got 300pounds of sand in the rear bumper with over inflated rear tires... you know they don't handle like this in real life.


People tends to lean toward GT5 when they pick the more ''realistic'' driving model because its the most difficult game to master. I don't completely disagree with them but its not always that black or white...
 
This is a silly discussion...

Forza 3's Nurburgring Nordschliefe can't hold a candle to the GT5 version...

And this is coming from an Xbox fanboi.


What's the big deal? It's at least nice to see that the FM3 version isn't too far from reality though. There are major problems that needs to be addressed, but still it is a decent version of the track. It's not as bad as some other games that I have played...
 
To see if the track is wider overall, you need to check across the whole track and not just the carousel turn. I do think GT5's 'ring layout is more accurate but that's not saying Forza's is bad at all. Both do a pretty good job at representing the 'ring.

And zero, your reference to C&D's article is from a new writer who, based on his biased writing style, is a big Sony/GT fan. In the article has a picture showing a wheel that doesn't work on the 360, and the 2 reviewers playing Forza with controller, yet they say they compared both games with wheels. Many asked which wheel was used on Forza and no response.
I would not put the Forza's Nurburgring on par with GT5. It's modeled with gameplay in mind not accuracy, GT4 ring was a lot more accurate and even Shift 2 is. Is like they were still tweaking the old PGR rendition since Forza 1.

All that about C&D was discussed time back:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=4556950#post4556950

Anyway I don't know what is so strange, they as a professionals are only confirming what much people experienced with both games, is not like an isolated opinion.


GT5 on the other hand is a sinner on the other side of the spectrum. There is no way a 300hp Nissan 350z on stock tires is THAT difficult to drive around a circuit. No way you have to feather the throttle that much exiting a corner. The TopGear Lotus Elise event is another example. Its like its got 300pounds of sand in the rear bumper with over inflated rear tires... you know they don't handle like this in real life
The Top Gear event was locked with the worst tyres possible, at least three grades below(comfort hard) than the stock ones(sport hard/medium). Try with the same tyres that it has in RL and you will see how the handling changes radically.

About the 350z I would be concerned about the game realism if I not have to take care with the throttle on a high torque 300cv RWD car with no aids and stock tyres.


@infamousDee: link
 
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The Top Gear event was locked with the worst tyres possible, at least three grades below(comfort hard) than the stock ones(sport hard/medium). Try with the same tyres that it has in RL and you will see how the handling changes radically.

Sports tyres are actually described in the game as semi-slick tyres, which would be very different to the Elise's stock tyres. Additionally, upon buying a car equipped with sports tyres in GT4, you're told something along the lines of "if you wish to experience the car in its factory spec, feel free to purchase normal tyres."
 
This thread is in grave danger of going off-topic.

Either get it back on topic or risk it being locked and those ignoring the staff end up taking a holiday from GT Planet.


Scaff
 
A few small things to fix as far as the track is concerned. Plenty of things to update in order to get the scenery right. Overall, not bad. It's closer than I originally thought too. I am pleasantly surprised

I haven't seen a racing game yet, at least on consoles, that had it exactly like the real thing. The scenery has always been some sort of approximation; some closer than others. From all the comparison videos I've seen, FM3 looks closer to the real thing than GT5. Granted, GT5's actual track is closer, in both scale and the uneven surface of the track, but visually FM3 beats the crap out of GT5 hardcore. It curb stomps GT5, in regards to looks.

Tje is way to smooth, compared to real life one, which has a lot of bumps

In terms of lap time comparison between the same car, it's quite far out....In Forza the straights are too long and the corners aren't sharp enough/can be taken at a higher speed.

They got the layout right, but some of the curbs are too tall and the track as a whole is too wide.

From what I've read in the past, Polyphony has done laser scans of tracks like this, while Turn 10 has not. That would make a big difference in getting the exact scale right and even more so on getting the bumps and unevenness down right. It's been my understanding that laser-scanning tracks is a very expensive ordeal and PD has an advantage in that their games sell several times as many copies as Forza games do.

I've seen strong evidence in the past that the issue with Forza's Nurburgring is that the whole thing, the entire track map, is scaled wrong. It's too big. What that means is that the straights are too long, the curves to large (consequently not as tight), and the track is too wide. I forget how far off the scale was, but it added something like two or three total miles of length to the track. From what I gathered, if they simply shrunk the map down a little bit, all these things would be basically right, to proper scale. Then they'd just need the little bump details and they'd have a pretty accurate map.
 
Polyphony has done laser scans of tracks like this
Nope, just photographs, GPS and maybe some laser measurment, but no scans.

FM3 looks closer to the real thing
Nah, trees are wrong (in shape and sheer number) and the curbs are also wrong in some places.
GT5 even features the correct fan towers in the correct places.
 
Nope, just photographs, GPS and maybe some laser measurment, but no scans.


Nah, trees are wrong (in shape and sheer number) and the curbs are also wrong in some places.
GT5 even features the correct fan towers in the correct places.

I agree...while it sucks that FM3 doesn't have a more accurate version Nurburgring, FM3's physics are more accurate when driving/racing the ring. I prefer the more accurate physics to be honest.
 
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Wow, I am still surprised to this day you haven't been banned for your consistent trolling and derailing of the Forza section. We got it..ad nauseum, you don't like Forza, and you insist on posting in Forza threads 90% of the time you post.

If you want to do a post list war, I would be more than happy to. But lets take it to PM so you don't continue to derail threads any more than you already have in the short time you have been a member with us. We understand you don't care what the mods have to say, but some of us do. So maybe you need to think before you post, or contain yourself to sections other than the Forza section.

Sound good?
 
We understand you don't care what the mods have to say, but some of us do.

That's the single most ironic statement I've come across on the internet. :lol:

Either back up your arguments with proof or back away. While we allow debates with a lot of leeway on these forums, this is getting rather silly.

When you are asked to show proof on GTPlanet, proof is expected. The incessant run-around is getting borderline spammy.

Thank you.

Already did back up my argument by explaining my experiences with my games. Thank you. Now move along.

It's clear that if you won't listen to staff when they tell you to stop this ridiculous insistence that your "opinions" on FM3's physics are reasonable without anything in the way of proof to back it up, then you sure as hell won't pay any attention to me. Consider this the last time I reply to one of your posts, for the good of everyone that uses this forum.

I recall that you said earlier in some thread that you didn't play Forza 3.

I'm not entirely sure who this post is directed at, but I never said anything of the sort.
 
He meant Bogie 19th, who did say somewhere in this subforum that he doesn't own Forza 3, if I recall correctly.
 
infamousDee
I'm fairly certain that he was being sarcastic.
No, I'm not being sarcastic, and that post wasn't directed at you. The post was a response to Bogie 19th, who did say that he did not own FM3, or any of the earlier entries in the franchise.
 
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