Forza Motorsport 4 - General Discussion

[Luminis]

More realistic or just harder to control?

99% of people can't tell the difference, I think.

And I must be of the few that thought the career in Forza has been good. FM3 for me I liked better than the previous versions. If they expand on that it'll be real cool

I liked it, too. Lots of events, using the career calendar or whatever it was called was optional, the races were quite diverse, the AI was at least not totally crap and the level system wasn't very intrusive and just gave you free cars. Dunno, seemed good to me.

 

[disinfected]

Unfortunately it appears by this point no game will ever 'master' a career mode.

 

[Luminis]

What exactly would a 'mastered' career mode look like? I think that'd differ from person to person.

 

[HBK]

Forza career system is in dire need of an improvement (which we will hopefully get with "world tour" mode). It's not *bad* per se. It's just somewhat ... maybe not "bland" but very, very repetitive. More variety is definitely needed. And not just "car soccer" variety, but some adaptive AI (check), variable tracks and class for any given event (we'll see), less races but longer ones, especially in low level classes (unlikely), stuff like that.

 

[Spagetti69]

Unfortunately it appears by this point no game will ever 'master' a career mode.

What benchmarks are you setting?

F1 2010 was excellent career wise.

 

[disinfected]

What benchmarks are you setting?

F1 2010 was excellent career wise.

Did overlook this one, I do have to agree with you here. Now if only a GT/Forza style game could do something similar.

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

F1 2010 was a great career, but I dont think it would work with a Forza type game when you have that many choices.
The world map will be fun in my eyes.

 

[Eric.]

ToCA 3 had the best career style, in my opinion. Haven't play F1 2010.

 

[cuco33]

I never got the complaint for FM3's career to be honest. You have options in the SP to either just go through the events list and pick whatever you want or follow a career that is catered to what you do in the game. 6 yrs (and more pending you don't want to replay year 6) for all the championships and the events mid week are cycled to your picking. Open and free and you can go from a small and quick E class quartermile event to a GT USA International event going through 5-6 longer races to an oval run with 400hp cars.

 

[JJ72]

Toca 3 has some story going on, which works fine however for FM I think it should be more reality based, they can keep the rivalry aspect (M.Rossi anyone?) but have a game structure closer to what real drivers are doing - entering races, fulfilling sponsor expectations and getting results to they can enter even bigger races. Instead of "hey you did awesome last race so this team is giving you a top drive for nothing" fast track way of progression.

I would like to see limitation in equipment, being forced to race with inferior machinery, and actual consequence to under performing etc.

 

[Luminis]

Dunno, maybe I'm a bit strange, but I really, really, really dislike story driven racing games. If I wanted story, I'd be playing RPGs... All I need is a nice list of events and maybe a nice and smooth way that they are presented in.

Oh, and some real life race series with a semi-realistic representation

 

[JJ72]

I never got the complaint for FM3's career to be honest. You have options in the SP to either just go through the events list and pick whatever you want or follow a career that is catered to what you do in the game. 6 yrs (and more pending you don't want to replay year 6) for all the championships and the events mid week are cycled to your picking. Open and free and you can go from a small and quick E class quartermile event to a GT USA International event going through 5-6 longer races to an oval run with 400hp cars.

The problem is it isn't a career per se but more a custom mix of events, an organized sandbox if you will, which doesn't reflect the reality of a racing driver's career.

 

[Luminis]

The problem is it isn't a career per se but more a custom mix of events, an organized sandbox if you will, which doesn't reflect the reality of a racing driver's career.

Which would be like, what? Karting, karting, more karting, then some moar karting. Afterwards, some manufacturer-backed amateur series?

I'd rather not have that...

 

[JJ72]

Which would be like, what? Karting, karting, more karting, then some moar karting. Afterwards, some manufacturer-backed amateur series?

I'd rather not have that...

um no, some drivers skip karting all together, and if you are good you won't spend more than two years in amateur events. you can be racing proper GT cars at the age of 16.

and bear in mind I am suggesting a proper career mode alongside the sandbox mode, not replacing it entirely.

the realism bit is mainly to create real stakes in your racing, and put you in situations where it is almost impossible to win, but you can only make do with what you get and out-drive the car.

 

[Luminis]

um no, some drivers skip karting all together, and if you are good you won't spend more than two years in amateur events. you can be racing proper GT cars at the age of 16.

and bear in mind I am suggesting a proper career mode alongside the sandbox mode, not replacing it entirely.

the realism bit is mainly to create real stakes in your racing, and put you in situations where it is almost impossible to win, but you can only make do with what you get and out-drive the car.

Dunno, such a story mode would also imply being stuck with a single car for a whole season and drive the weaker cars for the field to try and place in the points for a few seasons... While that has its own appeal, I doubt that'd go very well with the overall design of Forza...

Also, while some driver skip karting and such, most don't. In most cases, it's a very slow way up, possibly with a few seasons of Spec Miata and such in there. Doing the whole career under the assumption that you're the new Ayrton Senna and skip most of the slow and tedious stuff, that's when the realism of the story goes righ out of the window again. Let's be honest, the realistic career of a driver wouldn't be what most people would want to play..

 

[JJ72]

It's a matter of balance. It just seems odd in FM3 that I am racing GT2 cars on weekend while also road going aston martins 3 days a week.

 

[Sele1981]

Forza career system is in dire need of an improvement (which we will hopefully get with "world tour" mode). It's not *bad* per se. It's just somewhat ... maybe not "bland" but very, very repetitive. More variety is definitely needed. And not just "car soccer" variety, but some adaptive AI (check), variable tracks and class for any given event (we'll see), less races but longer ones, especially in low level classes (unlikely), stuff like that.

With the FM3 career mode I was very dissapointed. Even though they got more races than GT5, it was very boring. Finish 1 race, go to the next, finish that, go to the next... finis that, choose another series, finish the race...

GT5 had at least some license tests, some special events, online events...

I hope FM4 will have a nice career mode, I dont give anything on online...

 

[zr1chris]

Dunno, such a story mode would also imply being stuck with a single car for a whole season and drive the weaker cars for the field to try and place in the points for a few seasons... While that has its own appeal, I doubt that'd go very well with the overall design of Forza...

I actually wouldn't mind the whole story mode and possibly having to use whatever car they give you and move your way up. They could always have it like FM3 where you have the options to either do the story mode (career mode in FM3) and progress through the career or go into the event list and run whatever races you want. 👍

 

[cuco33]

With the FM3 career mode I was very dissapointed. Even though they got more races than GT5, it was very boring. Finish 1 race, go to the next, finish that, go to the next... finis that, choose another series, finish the race...

GT5 had at least some license tests, some special events, online events...

I hope FM4 will have a nice career mode, I dont give anything on online...

Forza 3's career mode is either progressing through the seasons/years w/mix of events list or picking events directly from the events list. There are other modes throughout the game to keep you entertained just as there are in GT5. Leaderboard/time trials even along with the whole online thing. Special events in GT5 aren't any different than A/Bspec events as you are locked to a few tracks and certain cars.

I hope FM4 adds some licensing events even though I'm not particular fond of them in GT. Never was really.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The original idea of the license test in the GT series I thought was brilliant. You gain access to more events dependent on your skill not based on grinding. I hate XP systems outside in racing games...

 

[I'm Motarded]

It's a matter of balance. It just seems odd in FM3 that I am racing GT2 cars on weekend while also road going aston martins 3 days a week.

I would love to wake up tomorrow morning, look at my weeks calender containing the above and think "What an odd schedule this week" haha. I'd call that living the life.

I mean what do racing drivers do when it's not a race weekend? Usually promotional work, test driving or gym... I think I'd prefer the Astons during the week even in the real world.

I think the FM4 career will be O.K. Somebody suggested T10 should shift the focus from being forced to win every race more towards winning the individual championships on points tally, I think this would ease some of the grind feeling the game seems to have. Although racing will always be a grind if you intend to be top of your game. Nobody aspires to be mid-to-bottom table

 

[HBK]

Dunno, maybe I'm a bit strange, but I really, really, really dislike story driven racing games. If I wanted story, I'd be playing RPGs... All I need is a nice list of events and maybe a nice and smooth way that they are presented in.

It's not a matter of adding a story (which is a bad idea, I agree with you on that one). It's just a matter of adding some kind of, I dunno, some kind of "linkage", for the lack of a better word. Some gameplay mechanics tiyng events altogether in some kind of a logical way. I'm not speaking of imposing some kind of order or anything, on the contrary. But in FM3, it's way too much like someone already said :

Finish 1 race, go to the next, finish that, go to the next... finis that, choose another series, finish the race...

 

[Luminis]

The original idea of the license test in the GT series I thought was brilliant. You gain access to more events dependent on your skill not based on grinding. I hate XP systems outside in racing games...

That's why I liked Forza's level system... It wasn't required to meet a certain level to buy cars or enter events or like. I, at least, don't remember anything of that sort.

It's just a matter of adding some kind of, I dunno, some kind of "linkage", for the lack of a better word.

That's what I meant when I said "a smooth way to present those events"

 

[HBK]

Almost all events are locked by driver level in FM3 (all except starting ones, basically). It's just that the required driver levels are somewhat low, and therefore events can be entered pretty quickly. All events are unlocked at level 20, with the exception of two which are unlocked at level 35 (R2 championship) and level 50 (R1 championship).

 

[Luminis]

Almost all events are locked by driver level in FM3 (all except starting ones, basically). It's just that the required driver levels are somewhat low, and therefore events can be entered pretty quickly. All events are unlocked at level 20, with the exception of two which are unlocked at level 35 (R2 championship) and level 50 (R1 championship).

I never even noticed that
I guess the level requirements are easier to meet than to get the cash for the cars you'll want for those events...

 

[ZSPaulus]

I hated the thing in FM3 where you could only choose three races at a time. So i always went to the grid shown in the posted by HBK, and did my races there. No one telling me which race is next; I decide..

But i loved the fact that you could race really fast cars early on in the game..
And I HATED the fact that i could see a really nice car in the UCD, even have enough money to buy it, but didnt have the level to be able to buy it.

I really hope those are things that T10 have kept the way they are..

 

[HBK]

I never even noticed that
I guess the level requirements are easier to meet than to get the cash for the cars you'll want for those events...

That's pretty much it, yeah

Edit : Level requirements for car acquisition should be a thing of the past (if I remember right, such requirements exist in Forza 2, but it's way less restrictive than in GT5).

 

[theotherspongey]

That's pretty much it, yeah

Edit : Level requirements for car acquisition should be a thing of the past (if I remember right, such requirements exist in Forza 2, but it's way less restrictive than in GT5).

I disagree. I wouldnt want a level 2 newb ramming me with a Veyron. GT5's car buying levels are pretty fair IMO.

 

[HBK]

level 2 != newb

 

[Griffith500]

ToCA 3 had the best career style, in my opinion. Haven't play F1 2010.

Toca 3 has some story going on, which works fine however for FM I think it should be more reality based, they can keep the rivalry aspect (M.Rossi anyone?) but have a game structure closer to what real drivers are doing - entering races, fulfilling sponsor expectations and getting results to they can enter even bigger races. Instead of "hey you did awesome last race so this team is giving you a top drive for nothing" fast track way of progression.

I would like to see limitation in equipment, being forced to race with inferior machinery, and actual consequence to under performing etc.

I think there's something to be had from this idea. In Forza and GT, you're kind of this omnipresent force (in terms of the kinds of races you enter), so it's more (realistically) like you're some sort of broad-reaching racing outfit, rather than a single racer with one hell of a mission.

Clearly, a lot of people would relish a motorsports management game, but that shouldn't detract from the main mechanic of prior games. So we're probably talking about (yet) another game mode; just another way of playing, where money is more scarce, you need drivers, licences, cars, spares etc. and you have to play out a season, ideally accelerated. I imagine this is what GT's B-Spec is heading for, to some extent - love it or hate it; or ambivalent towards it, sure.

As for the driver "story mode" from the ToCA games, I agree that it was a bit arbitrary, but how liberating was it to know that you weren't expected to win on your first time out? That's not to say it was easy. A mode like that in Forza / GT where you still get rewarded for doing well relative to expectations would be superb. Just think how much closer races could be, and the replay factor (for a given series) would (could, if done properly) be great.

Just a note: technically, this is ToCA 3. I presumed you were both referring to ToCA / DTM / Pro / V8 Supercars Race Driver 3, though. I never played ToCA WTC.