Forza Motorsport 4 - General Discussion

[Bogie 19th]

I think the FM4 career will be O.K. Somebody suggested T10 should shift the focus from being forced to win every race more towards winning the individual championships on points tally, I think this would ease some of the grind feeling the game seems to have. Although racing will always be a grind if you intend to be top of your game. Nobody aspires to be mid-to-bottom table

FM3 did not require you win every race to progress through the championships. I have progressed and won them, and I haven't won every race. They do of course encourage top 3.

 

[HBK]

FM3 did not require you win every race to progress through the championships. I have progressed and won them, and I haven't won every race. They do of course encourage top 3.

The whole game is set up so that you *need* to finish first. In every event.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/forza-motorsport-3/achievement/33298-Solid-Gold.html

And it's not just a matter of obtaining this achievement. The whole feeling you get from Forza 3 when you don't come out first is the same feeling you get from "that other game", and can be easily summarized as "you just lost mate".

I doubt Forza 4 is going to evolve from that crap. But, in my humble and honest opinion, that will be the next revolution in racing games, games that acknowledge that finishing 13th out of a grid of 16 can still be pretty ****ing cool.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hasn't Dan said that FM4 will award a player with a choice of 3 cars instead of one car. So this will give more variation. Also that the AI will detect what your now racing and better compete? This could be flawed though as well.

My own concern is with races becoming boring and no matter what level or type of car you drive the AI are little challenge as we progress at being faster on the actual tracks. If anything having some races placing you in cars you simply just cannot win the race in could be entertaining. With the objective in having to defend or go like the clappers just to get into the top 5 or 10 places. More thought is needed in not having every race feel just like the previous one.

I found the problem with FM3 was that yes the AI didnt create enough challenge and then the driving experience with many cars in FM3 was too easy to correct. You wernt on the edge or getting enough satisfaction from the experience. Personally yes GT5 has similar AI issues but the driving experience feels more involving. I hope with the new tyre modelling and advances they have made FM4 more challenging and engrossing to play.

For me the "Rivals Mode" could be where most challenge could come and what's great is you don't have to be online in the same race to compete. Really it is an extension of "Time Trials" many forums have done in the past. Personally Im not a big online player and would relish more ways to still compete with others if indeed the games AI or challenges fall short. FM4 would also really benefit with later DLC and new challenges which seems something Codemasters are specialising in keeping a game interesting.

 

[FyreandIce]

Hasn't Dan said that FM4 will award a player with a choice of 3 cars instead of one car. So this will give more variation. Also that the AI will detect what your now racing and better compete? This could be flawed though as well.

My own concern is with races becoming boring and no matter what level or type of car you drive the AI are little challenge as we progress at being faster on the actual tracks. If anything having some races placing you in cars you simply just cannot win the race in could be entertaining. With the objective in having to defend or go like the clappers just to get into the top 5 or 10 places. More thought is needed in not having every race feel just like the previous one.

I found the problem with FM3 was that yes the AI didnt create enough challenge and then the driving experience with many cars in FM3 was too easy to correct. You wernt on the edge or getting enough satisfaction from the experience. Personally yes GT5 has similar AI issues but the driving experience feels more involving. I hope with the new tyre modelling and advances they have made FM4 more challenging and engrossing to play.

For me the "Rivals Mode" could be where most challenge could come and what's great is you don't have to be online in the same race to compete. Really it is an extension of "Time Trials" many forums have done in the past. Personally Im not a big online player and would relish more ways to still compete with others if indeed the games AI or challenges fall short. FM4 would also really benefit with later DLC and new challenges which seems something Codemasters are specialising in keeping a game interesting.

So far, the FM4 career has adaptable A.I i.e it upgrades the cars so they are at the top of the class. In FM1-3 there was only ever going to be 2, maybe 3 A.I cars that could even compete but thanks to the "hard" A.I not really being hard, they were easy to beat. In FM4, all cars in the field should stand a chance and they have 4 difficulty settings including "professional" which hopefully will give players a good challenge.

 

[HBK]

FM4 "professional" difficulty setting will likely be similar to FM3 "hard" difficulty setting. And FM4 "hard" difficulty setting will likely be somewhere in-between FM3 "normal" and "hard" difficulty setting, which is something a lot of people requested (FM3 "easy to beat" hard AI is actually pretty fast, or at least faster than most players out there).

Edit : And FM3 normal AI is not really competitive for most players. Or to put it in a simpler way, the performance gap between normal AI and hard AI is huge in FM3.

 

[FyreandIce]

FM4 "professional" difficulty setting will likely be similar to FM3 "hard" difficulty setting. And FM4 "hard" difficulty setting will likely be somewhere in-between FM3 "normal" and "hard" difficulty setting, which is something a lot of people requested (FM3 "easy to beat" hard AI is actually pretty fast, or at least faster than most players out there).

Edit : And FM3 normal AI is not really competitive for most players. Or to put it in a simpler way, the performance gap between normal AI and hard AI is huge in FM3.

I hope it's something like hard being a bit slower then the FM3 hard and professional being harder then hard.

As a player who has always raced against Hard A.I, it gets quite boring when the best "competition" almost comes to a complete stop while going around turn 1 at sunset infield.

 

[Luminis]

If "professional" isn't susbtantially faster than the FM3's "hard" AI, then I'd like another option, please... Dunno, maybe "Stiglike".

 

[GTP_Plato]

Release day must be coming so slow for you guys

The same faces seem to post on here everyday, why not leave it a week or two? You will have more car reveals and info to talk about then

 

[cuco33]

The whole game is set up so that you *need* to finish first. In every event.

http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/forza-motorsport-3/achievement/33298-Solid-Gold.html

And it's not just a matter of obtaining this achievement. The whole feeling you get from Forza 3 when you don't come out first is the same feeling you get from "that other game", and can be easily summarized as "you just lost mate".

I doubt Forza 4 is going to evolve from that crap. But, in my humble and honest opinion, that will be the next revolution in racing games, games that acknowledge that finishing 13th out of a grid of 16 can still be pretty ****ing cool.

It's a racing game. You're intentions in any racing game is to win races, and you do that by taking 1st place in an event or overall 1st place in a series. The all golds achievement is just that, an achievement. You shouldn't get a pat on the back for finishing 13 out of 16 in a racing game.


Also, anyone discussing AI and difficulty of any racer shouldn't setup races unfairly. When you get into the later races in Forza where the restrictions are tighter, you'll notice how the AI shines a lot more and the game's difficulty is noticed. Same holds true for most games. Sadly most stick a car with 300+ hp more than the competition on a track and expects a fair/close race.

I race with AI on hard like 99% of the time and all assists off (occasionally I'll leave driving line on tracks I'm not the best at like Sedona full with really fast cars, some reason I'm fine with cars under S class lol). I've had my share of close racing when the race is fairly setup. Too many people complain of too easy AI and too easy of a game when they come out in R1 class car racing a grid of B class cars

 

[HBK]

^ Confusing post is confusing.

1 / AI in FM3 is fine, not perfect but fine. And yes, it can lead to awesome heated races when events are set-up properly. Thing is, it shouldn't be up to the player to set-up races so that they will be "awesome".

2 / The game shouldn't give the player "a pat in the back for finishing 13 out of 16". But it shouldn't slap your face either with obvious and not so obvious "h4h4 loser lol" stuff.

 

[Luminis]

Also, anyone discussing AI and difficulty of any racer shouldn't setup races unfairly. When you get into the later races in Forza where the restrictions are tighter, you'll notice how the AI shines a lot more and the game's difficulty is noticed. Same holds true for most games. Sadly most stick a car with 300+ hp more than the competition on a track and expects a fair/close race.

I usually get responses of that kind when asking for a tougher AI
Anyways, even at a decent disadvantage (being down some 80, or 90 PI points on the AI), I usually don't have much trouble taking the lead within one lap around the 'Ring, even from last place. It gets troublesome when I don't know the track (like Fujimi Kaido), but that's about it... With even cars, it's pretty easy.

Anyways, I don't get why they couldn't just add some really, really fast AI settings. I know a lot of people have a hard time selecting medium or *gasp* easy difficulty, because "that's for noobs", but still... Nothin wrong with an AI one has to actually take seriously.

 

[jabofu]

If "professional" isn't susbtantially faster than the FM3's "hard" AI, then I'd like another option, please... Dunno, maybe "Stiglike".

I think you will find plenty competition online.

 

[Luminis]

I think you will find plenty competition online.

I'd like to, but aside from hot lapping, my internet connection is not going to hold up to that... Stupid mobile internet device thingy.

 

[cuco33]

^ Confusing post is confusing.

1 / AI in FM3 is fine, not perfect but fine. And yes, it can lead to awesome heated races when events are set-up properly. Thing is, it shouldn't be up to the player to set-up races so that they will be "awesome".

2 / The game shouldn't give the player "a pat in the back for finishing 13 out of 16". But it shouldn't slap your face either with obvious and not so obvious "h4h4 loser lol" stuff.

At the end of the day it's a game and it's up to you how you want to play it. Most racers are like this. They usually start you off a bit easier with more open restrictions and eventually as you progress the restrictions tighten up making it more interesting and difficult. I'll agree that in most cases these games are easy to win but if you want serious competition without the AI acting stupid like braking way too early pulling slow lap times, you simply just need to go online and race competitively. That's when it usually comes down to the driver skill.

What would you want for finishing 13th out of a grid of 16 though? That's 3rd worst in a field of 16. Podium finishes in real life are usually top 3, and points based series usually gives points to only the top 10.

 

[jabofu]

I'd like to, but aside from hot lapping, my internet connection is not going to hold up to that... Stupid mobile internet device thingy.

That sounds bad, but I see that you come from Germany like me as well. So there might be the option to use a LTE-Connection. It is also mobile, but delivers a fast broadband connection.

 

[HBK]

At the end of the day it's a game and it's up to you how you want to play it. Most racers are like this. They usually start you off a bit easier with more open restrictions and eventually as you progress the restrictions tighten up making it more interesting and difficult. I'll agree that in most cases these games are easy to win but if you want serious competition without the AI acting stupid like braking way too early pulling slow lap times, you simply just need to go online and race competitively. That's when it usually comes down to the driver skill.

Of course. That was not my point. What I'm trying to say is that I want the SP part of the game to be 1 / more challenging overall, 2 / not demanding a mandatory 1st place in every event, in any explicit or implicit way.

What would you want for finishing 13th out of a grid of 16 though? That's 3rd worst in a field of 16. Podium finishes in real life are usually top 3, and points based series usually gives points to only the top 10.

I'm not saying I know a miracle solution. I just say the next revolution in racing games will be when SP "careers" will acknowledge the fact that racing does not always lead to finishing first. Just, you know, like in real racing. Or online racing.

Or to put it in another way, SP careers should stop spoiling players and put them against some real competition, and be fair about it by not asking to systematically claim 1st place.

 

[Luminis]

That sounds bad, but I see that you come from Germany like me as well. So there might be the option to use a LTE-Connection. It is also mobile, but delivers a fast broadband connection.

Hehe, I could get stationary internet if I wanted to, thing is, my mobile connection is free, so upgrading would be kinda annoying. I just don't feel like paying for an internet connection just to be able to play games online... Not yet, at least

Or to put it in another way, SP careers should stop spoiling players and put them against some real competition, and be fair about it by not asking to systematically claim 1st place.

Question is, how well would most gamers take to that? Us more hardcore players would appreciate that, but I do think such a "reality mode" wouldn't go very well with 95% of the player base.

 

[HBK]

Yeah, maybe.

 

[Bogie 19th]

The whole game is set up so that you *need* to finish first. In every event.

Nope.

 

[t.o.]

The adaptive AI thing is puzzling to me. I know the AI is going to bring beefier cars to party if need be. But I wonder about their ability. Will the AI adapt so much to the point that they are plain cheating? Will these guys be driving like their on rails breaking laws of physics just to make the game more challenging? Let's hope not.

 

[Hotspitta]

I want too see this in full hd Gamescom is near though

 

[t.o.]

Guys you know what's really hilarious? Here I am at gtplanet on a forza forum and I'm JUST NOW getting into the Top Gear show and understanding what the craze is all about but ONLY after seeing it hyped up in Forza 4. What is wrong with that picture. Why was it so weakly used in GT5? I don't understand. There was no strong "tie-in" for me. It was like GT5 just assumed you knew what was going on where as Forza is trying to explain it to you and THEN tell you "Hey, here it is. We got Top Gear". It's like GT5 found out Forza was going to get it and then got mad and said F it.

 

[Luminis]

I guess PD was content to slap the TopGear logo onto GT5. It's rather well known, so being able to say "we got this covered!" was probably all they really cared about, in the first place..

 

[Hotspitta]

I'm JUST NOW getting into the Top Gear show and understanding what the craze is all about but ONLY after seeing it hyped up in Forza 4.

Huh? Where are you from? Jezza thinks "Ferrari's are a scaled down version of GOD". Captain slow likes like his name says slower cars. Although he owns a 430. Hammond aka 'Hamster' loves his Porsches

Here's a couple of vids you shouldn't mis


This is classic topgear stuff




Some say.....best of

 

[t.o.]

Huh? Where are you from? Jezza thinks "Ferrari's are a scaled down version of GOD". Captain slow likes like his name says slower cars. Although he owns a 430. Hammond aka 'Hamster' loves his Porsches

America. lol. Well there isn't a HD BBC channel over here so that kinda rules out the possibility of catching the show for me. I only stay in the HD channel range . Alot of people don't know about the show over here.
But I've been catching youtubes of it for a while now. When I say I'm just now getting into it I don't mean like last week. lol

 

[Luminis]

But I've been catching youtubes of it for a while now. When I say I'm just now getting into it I don't mean like last week. lol

I assume you've got a broadband internet connection. If you really wanna catch up on TopGear, and I'd recommend you to do just that (the British one, that is), I'd suggest FinalGear. You can download basically all the episodes there, the recent ones are available in high def, too.

You gotta catch the lates one, episode 6 of season 17. Aventador

 

[JJ72]

Question is, how well would most gamers take to that? Us more hardcore players would appreciate that, but I do think such a "reality mode" wouldn't go very well with 95% of the player base.

You wouldn't know though, I seldom hear people complaining about that in F12010, probably because you have a teammate as a yardstick and if you out race him it is a personal victory.

I am really longing for such a game, the only one coming close is Shift 2, but it still depends on what cars the AI brings to that particular race, sometime they are very competitive, sometime not.

In FM3 I have to give the AI at least 60PI advantage to really challenge myself, if the gap is down to 30 in FM4 I will be very happy.

 

[cuco33]

Of course. That was not my point. What I'm trying to say is that I want the SP part of the game to be 1 / more challenging overall, 2 / not demanding a mandatory 1st place in every event, in any explicit or implicit way.

I'm not saying I know a miracle solution. I just say the next revolution in racing games will be when SP "careers" will acknowledge the fact that racing does not always lead to finishing first. Just, you know, like in real racing. Or online racing.

Or to put it in another way, SP careers should stop spoiling players and put them against some real competition, and be fair about it by not asking to systematically claim 1st place.

I still don't understand the complaint here.. The option is there for more difficulty. You are open to pick any car that suits the class and have the option to modify the car to be competitive/best in class. You could easily have it the lowest in class and you won't be blowing by the competition. It's racing. The purpose is to win and you win by finishing in 1st place. An achievement that is to get gold in every event is just that... something for you to get gold in everything.

If you don't finish in 1st you have the option to replay the race/series in order to finish in 1st. Just like every single racing game with a single player mode in existence. Take F1 2010... I have it and when I was playing it I didn't finish 1st. If I finished the season in 4th overall I can redo the season to finish 4th overall, or keep redoing the season until I finished 1st in every race giving me 1st overall. I still don't get what you are looking for if you finish 13th out of a 16 car grid. You don't deserve much in terms of a prize, money, xp or a pat on the back.

 

[JJ72]

I still don't get what you are looking for if you finish 13th out of a 16 car grid. You don't deserve much in terms of a prize, money, xp or a pat on the back.

Getting 13th in a car that should only be finishing 16th is immensely satisfying and some of the best drives come from being in a poor car.

Finishing first as the end goal is the norm in racing games for several decades and I am a bit tired of it, you can reward players relative to their car performance, it's in the game design. Like A spec points really? (i haven't play much GT4) if you over perform you get more exp., and can progress to better drives faster etc.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

I just pre-ordered F4 on Saturday. I also decided to get the limited collectors edition. Which is something I NEVER do with any game. But there are a lot of great benefits to being a VIP member in Forza. I wasnt a VIP in F3 but I am in F4. Bring on the free cars and free goodies. Plus being a VIP puts you at the top in the Auction house so people see your cars first, which I didnt know until recently.