Future of the Current Tracks (with Poll)

[TokoTurismo]

I'm a bit confused, what do you mean by last generation tracks? PS3 tracks?

Basically tracks like Laguna Seca and Trial Mountain that was ported from GT4 I think?

 

[Brock5000]

Couldn't care less how many pixels or polygons make up the trees or dirt. Gameplay trumps graphics every time in my book. If GT6 let me play the lost tracks from past games exactly as they appeared on the old machines I still would.

 

[Gejabo]

You can never have enough tracks.
and I'm perfectly fine with the graphics of Trial mountain and Laguna seca.

 

[TokoTurismo]

You can never have enough tracks.
and I'm perfectly fine with the graphics of Trial mountain and Laguna seca.

I respect that, but... GAH!

 

[Gejabo]

Everybody it's own, but Trial mountain and Deep forrest are two of my favorite tracks.

Sure it would be nice it they got a touch up.
But if they don't I'd still enjoy them.

 

[bman1984]

I’m saying taking the tracks as is. Just about every argument I’ve read against the standard vehicles is make them premium or send them to the digital car compactor. Let’s face it, Polyphony Digital isn’t going to remake, at best, all of the unique cars and tracks in a short period of time. So yes I mean take it as is, like the cars. I still think sending the standards to a graphics design school for a semi-premium overhaul would be a nice project for students and allow PD to work on new, premium content.

I must say, I love when people say PD did “X” amount of cars between Gran Turismo 5 and Gran Turismo 6. I admit I do not know the process of car modeling, but I highly doubt much work went into for example the base models/prototypes and their livery counterparts (which are clones). Also, did they actually do a UNIQUE model of all three new Audi LMS R8’s? I can’t find a difference between the 2012’s and 2010, aside from the livery. Why not upgrade the two standards 2009 R8’s the same way? Would you complain about the car count if they made all the standard clones premium using a base model (example being the Miata’s)? My point, the number of cars they pump out isn’t exactly as high as it may seem. Tracks take quite a bit more time to do and it’s been proven. No “February Track”, but we did get the 80’s tracks, where it appears the only difference is the actual tarmac design (copy and paste the bulk of the work or environment). The only new track is the free Red Bull Ring, and my feeling is that’s where all the “Zahara” efforts went into, to meet that deadline ($$$).

Now back on.... track<--, as TokoTurismo stated, I did mean the tracks he mentioned and others like it. No Day/Night and no weather is like not having an interior (Vision GT’s). It’s not needed but defiantly gives a real life feel and is preferred. Plus, look at those old tracks from PS2 and now look at the Nurburgring or La Sarthe. Come on, the difference is there. If cleaning up the standards are bad, why is cleaning the tracks ok? Shouldn’t they be completely redone into premium like the cars? Look at the picture Toko posted. You’re ok with that track, that you will see all the time, but not a standard car that you see when behind? Stop worrying about a cars looks get to the front of the pack!!! That’s the point. That’s a double standard and that’s choice three in the poll.

That’s what is being asked, are you willing to commit to your stance on standard, old, assets all around? We don't know what a "PS4 Premium" is. For all we know is a cleaned up PS3 model. Toko has made it clear. Knowing how PD works, yes everything, cars and tracks needs to be redone, period. Low quality is low quality all around, not picking and choosing for his own gain. I appreciate and respect his opinion, as I do others who participated. Please, don’t over analyzes what’s being asked. Take it at face value. Again, I’m in the bring it back group, cars AND tracks. Shiny content is nothing without a way to use it, like shiny rims and stereo system (premium graphics) in a car that doesn’t start (lacking single player career mode/online). Looks nice right?

Look at it this way:

The “YES” choice is “The Forza” approach. Scrap and start over. Less content = Quality (Graphics)

The “NO” choice is “The Gran Turismo” approach. Continue to improve and evolve. More content = Quantity (Varity and Options).

If a reviewer thinks options are bad.... ok that’s their opinion. If they think graphics make the gameplay (career mode) better....alrighty.

If you (the player) are so worried about a review (on anything), and let it decide how to spend your money and dictate your life, well then I feel sorry for you. Just enjoy what you want enjoy because you want to, not because you were told you would or want to fit in with the cool group.

 

[Johnnypenso]

That’s what is being asked, are you willing to commit to your stance on standard, old, assets all around? We don't know what a "PS4 Premium" is. For all we know is a cleaned up PS3 model.

PS3 premium cars are already PS4 ready. Photomode shows you what they can look like on the PS4 on track, assuming they make that a priority. Premium tracks will have the same details if they aren't updated, but better resolution, hopefully no flickering lines, shadows should work properly etc.

 

[dQuim]

I don't get the question here. Do the OP mean having the tracks with last gen assets included for the PS4, or the old tracks are updated to current gen standards on the PS4?

I assumed tracks with last gen assets

 

[bman1984]

PS3 premium cars are already PS4 ready. Photomode shows you what they can look like on the PS4 on track, assuming they make that a priority. Premium tracks will have the same details if they aren't updated, but better resolution, hopefully no flickering lines, shadows should work properly etc.

I sure hope so. Especially on Mount Panorama. It defiantly catches my eye. Though, some of the tracks grassy and dirt areas look like they were smudged with a wet sponge. There’s no depth or detail like the grass at Eiger Nordwand’s Short Track. Watching the grass react to the car buzzing past is neat. It’s the little things I guess. Won’t the better resolution make the less detailed stuff stand out more if they are not touched up?

I’m not a huge photographer, nor really explored photo travel. I went back to a few of the photo travel locations, and I kinda see what you’re talking about. To me, the cars look vibrant and shiny compared to when they are on the track. The front fender and rear quarter panel arches and windshield area for example look quite similar in both a replay photo and travel mode photo, smooth and clean.

Why not use the PS4 version of a modeled car with Anti-Aliasing? Isn’t the point of Anti-Aliasing to adjust the details of the object when details are not required, in this case a car in the distance vs. next to you? Also, does the rotors and wheel (rim) count as the car model? This looks like Gemasolar, a photo travel location. The wheel (around the bead/wheel weight area) isn’t smooth and the rotor looks lifeless and flat looking.

I do have to laugh though, “Standards suck!!!”, and I see the Chaparral 2J as the go car for this weeks “Race Car Super Lap”, or Suzuki GSX-R from a few weeks ago. Standards can’t be too bad then. I know not everyone on the leaderboards are from GTPlanet, but still shows it’s not that big a deal. (Sorry for getting off topic, but I'm trying to stay out of the Standard Car War Thread(s)......

I suppose at this point we need to see some stuff in action to get a better idea of their direction. If some of the things we've seen like the latest Aston Martin teaser or the fog and water effects on the Nurburgring are small peeks at the future, it looks promising. I say this because out of ALL the things to comment on, Jordan randomly made it a point to point out the end of the Aston teaser. Hmm....

 

[Com Fox]

I say no. The tracks have been apart GT for ages and getting rid of them is like getting rid of Rainbow Road in Mario Kart. I don't see the issue of the tracks looking old and rusty, the driving of the tracks a still great.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I say no. The tracks have been apart GT for ages and getting rid of them is like getting rid of Rainbow Road in Mario Kart. I don't see the issue of the tracks looking old and rusty, the driving of the tracks a still great.

Hard to believe the directly ported Rainbow Road directly from Mario Kart 7. I guess porting old assets is more common than I thought.

I sure hope so. Especially on Mount Panorama. It defiantly catches my eye. Though, some of the tracks grassy and dirt areas look like they were smudged with a wet sponge. There’s no depth or detail like the grass at Eiger Nordwand’s Short Track. Watching the grass react to the car buzzing past is neat. It’s the little things I guess. Won’t the better resolution make the less detailed stuff stand out more if they are not touched up?

I believe it will, yes. Everything that's next gen will look much better, everything last gen will look basically the same as it does now.

I’m not a huge photographer, nor really explored photo travel. I went back to a few of the photo travel locations, and I kinda see what you’re talking about. To me, the cars look vibrant and shiny compared to when they are on the track. The front fender and rear quarter panel arches and windshield area for example look quite similar in both a replay photo and travel mode photo, smooth and clean.

Most definitely there is more detail available for rendering on the PS4 that the PS3 can't handle, other than in photo mode.

I do have to laugh though, “Standards suck!!!”, and I see the Chaparral 2J as the go car for this weeks “Race Car Super Lap”, or Suzuki GSX-R from a few weeks ago. Standards can’t be too bad then. I know not everyone on the leaderboards are from GTPlanet, but still shows it’s not that big a deal. (Sorry for getting off topic, but I'm trying to stay out of the Standard Car War Thread(s)......

When it comes to being fast, racers will use whatever is fastest, even if it looks like crap.

 

[Tenacious D]

You don't half like making things up out of what was said. I didn't say anything about "struggling with poor sales", I referred to the other first part Sony developers that make games with lower budgets than PD and sell less games but have more staff. Less, as in 4 million is less than 10 million. Not "struggling with low budget".

Naughty Dog - ~250
SCE Santa Monica Studio - 220+
Guerrilla Games - 270+

None of those developers have sold games in excess of 10 million each. So again, please tell me how it's Sony restricting staffing at PD? Are you going to suggest they're unique in being restricted by Sony whilst they allow their other studios to grow?

I know I'm late to the party again, but this week has been a struggle, plus we had our little celebration to work towards. Along with some other extracurriculars.

In any case, the one studio that sticks out is Santa Monica, another first party developer. I think the thing that counts is the budget, because I'm not sure any SONY partner has sold as many Playstation games as Polyphony. You also have to consider what that budget is for. I doubt that Naughty Dog has been licensing and laser scanning several hundred vehicles and aircraft for the Uncharted series, or Guerrilla Games making field trips to other planets. And this is most likely where a good chunk of the $80 million-plus budget for GT5 went, to car companies, owners of race courses, racing teams, racing leagues, and a whole slew of companies associated with motorsports. And most likely funded by SONY checks.

Things are as things are. Kaz isn't as rich as any Microsoft executive, so PD clearly aren't sitting on a Pike's Peak scale money pile like MS. Plus I have to ask, has this bothered you enough to make posts and cast a vote in the "will Polyphony get more staff?" questions in the Kaz Q&A forum?

 

[GTracer98]

It would be great if the "old generation" tracks stayed in the series. Even better if they get an overhaul as Apricot Hill and Autumn Ring did. Otherwise, expect lots of whining from the fans, just like they already whine about not having Red Rock Valley etc.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I know I'm late to the party again, but this week has been a struggle, plus we had our little celebration to work towards. Along with some other extracurriculars.

In any case, the one studio that sticks out is Santa Monica, another first party developer. I think the thing that counts is the budget, because I'm not sure any SONY partner has sold as many Playstation games as Polyphony. You also have to consider what that budget is for. I doubt that Naughty Dog has been licensing and laser scanning several hundred vehicles and aircraft for the Uncharted series, or Guerrilla Games making field trips to other planets. And this is most likely where a good chunk of the $80 million-plus budget for GT5 went, to car companies, owners of race courses, racing teams, racing leagues, and a whole slew of companies associated with motorsports. And most likely funded by SONY checks.

Things are as things are. Kaz isn't as rich as any Microsoft executive, so PD clearly aren't sitting on a Pike's Peak scale money pile like MS. Plus I have to ask, has this bothered you enough to make posts and cast a vote in the "will Polyphony get more staff?" questions in the Kaz Q&A forum?

I have been thinking about the economics of creating cars and tracks recently. How has SMS managed to create this track list and this car list and partner up with both LeMans and the Indy 500, and create an entire game, for less than 1/10th GT's game budget, assuming all published or rumoured figures are accurate? Admittedly most of the tracks are not laser scanned and a few are unlicensed, but still, 1/10th the cost?

 

[bman1984]

I say no. The tracks have been apart GT for ages and getting rid of them is like getting rid of Rainbow Road in Mario Kart. I don't see the issue of the tracks looking old and rusty, the driving of the tracks a still great.

Yep, it’s hard to remove the staple that is Rainbow Road. Wouldn’t be a proper finale to a Mario Kart game without it. For me... 👍:tup:N64 Rainbow Road remake > :tup:Wii U Rainbow Road.

When it comes to being fast, racers will use whatever is fastest, even if it looks like crap.

Yeah I get that. I think that’s kinda the problem. If PD keeps getting data that standards are used, they'll think "well they use them, so they want them". Eh.. to each their own.

I have been thinking about the economics of creating cars and tracks recently. How has SMS managed to create this car list and this track list and partner up with both LeMans and the Indy 500, and create an entire game, for less than 1/10th GT's game budget, assuming all published or rumoured figures are accurate? Admittedly most of the tracks are not laser scanned and a few are unlicensed, but still, 1/10th the cost?

I’m thinking Slightly Mad Studios feels they have a lot more to prove their competition. So they are doing the very best they can to make a great first impression, even if it means a lighter wallet and sacrificing extra hours in the office to get all this squared away and on time. Spend money to make money.

If I’m correct, nothing about Project Cars was carried over from their Need for Speed Shift days? You have to give that team credit for a heck of showing thus far, considering what their up against.

*By the way, and it’s not a big deal, but your Track list and Car list links are mixed up. Figured I say something before someone gets on your case for it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I’m thinking Slightly Mad Studios feels they have a lot more to prove their competition. So they are doing the very best they can to make a great first impression, even if it means a lighter wallet and sacrificing extra hours in the office to get all this squared away and on time. Spend money to make money.

If I’m correct, nothing about Project Cars was carried over from their Need for Speed Shift days? You have to give that team credit for a heck of showing thus far, considering what their up against.

*By the way, and it’s not a big deal, but your Track list and Car list links are mixed up. Figured I say something before someone gets on your case for it.

I don't believe anything was carried over from Shift, it's all new from the ground up.

PCars budget is rumoured around $5million IIRC. To model 75 cars, all with multiple liveries + 40ish tracks, how do you do that on that budget? Even if the entire budget were used for licensing it would only amount to $45k/track or car. Assuming 1/4 of the budget was for licensing it would only be $12K per unit for licensing. Either there is some part of the equation I'm missing or licensing cars and tracks is much, much cheaper than I thought it would be.

Thanks for the tip on the link mixup:tup:

 

[karelpipa]

The original tracks of Gran Turismo 1 and 2 are the best of any game I've played, bar none. I would like to see them remain in the series as I don't think track designs created fresh would be of the same standard. However for me, if they're not re-done to PS4 quality then they have to go.

Agree 100%. But they should not change their off track appearance too much. You know like missing hills or buildings.
Of course time and weather changeability too.

 

[Epic B]

I say keep the old cars and tracks. Assuming disc space isn't an issue (I doubt it), might as well keep them. But they should get some kind of graphical update to make them look like they belong on PS4, not just lazily ported from a PS2 game or something like that. That is, assuming they don't already look okay. I'm not sure. Just make them look good somehow.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I say keep the old cars and tracks. Assuming disc space isn't an issue (I doubt it), might as well keep them. But they should get some kind of graphical update to make them look like they belong on PS4, not just lazily ported from a PS2 game or something like that. That is, assuming they don't already look okay. I'm not sure. Just make them look good somehow.

When you say, "Just make them look good somehow" , do you realize you could be talking about hundreds or thousands of man-hours modeling time, depending on how many tracks are touched up and how much they are improved? As with standard cars, this all takes time away from modeling new premium content.

 

[Epic B]

Fair enough. I don't really care about standards as long as it allows old cars to stay.

 

[Tenacious D]

I have been thinking about the economics of creating cars and tracks recently. How has SMS managed to create this track list and this car list and partner up with both LeMans and the Indy 500, and create an entire game, for less than 1/10th GT's game budget, assuming all published or rumoured figures are accurate? Admittedly most of the tracks are not laser scanned and a few are unlicensed, but still, 1/10th the cost?

While the track list is admirable, we just don't see eye to eye on the car list. I'm hoping those one-make racing videos are in the minority. But it also looks like street cars are in the minority too, and the game is heavily slanted towards supercars and racing machines, which is fine. I'd be up for racing in machines that offer more than LMP and Formula 1 road rockets.

But this is why I'm addicted to Gran Turismo - and the dreaded Standard car list, because I like a game with car depth which allows me to dig into it for more than a few months, and find something unique to experience over the course of more than a year. GRID Autosport was a mere speedbump for me. Forza 5, besides coming out on a system I'll buy when I have several hundred to just blow, is made with some very poor decisions from Turn 10, and possibly Microsoft too, who knows. Drive Club looks like PGR, so meh on that. Which leaves P CARS and Gran Turismo for my racing fix, and I'm not sure what my reaction will be - Career Mode, what is it? And if it has 10 cars I love and the rest are okay, I'll be spending a lot of time in GT6 too, especially if they give us some of those goodies we've been asking for. Much more than sounds.

I know you're the P CARS evangelist here, but court hasn't even convened on it yet, so we have yet to see if it's more than 1/10th the game for millions of gamers.

 

[Johnnypenso]

While the track list is admirable, we just don't see eye to eye on the car list. I'm hoping those one-make racing videos are in the minority. But it also looks like street cars are in the minority too, and the game is heavily slanted towards supercars and racing machines, which is fine. I'd be up for racing in machines that offer more than LMP and Formula 1 road rockets.

But this is why I'm addicted to Gran Turismo - and the dreaded Standard car list, because I like a game with car depth which allows me to dig into it for more than a few months, and find something unique to experience over the course of more than a year. GRID Autosport was a mere speedbump for me. Forza 5, besides coming out on a system I'll buy when I have several hundred to just blow, is made with some very poor decisions from Turn 10, and possibly Microsoft too, who knows. Drive Club looks like PGR, so meh on that. Which leaves P CARS and Gran Turismo for my racing fix, and I'm not sure what my reaction will be - Career Mode, what is it? And if it has 10 cars I love and the rest are okay, I'll be spending a lot of time in GT6 too, especially if they give us some of those goodies we've been asking for. Much more than sounds.

I know you're the P CARS evangelist here, but court hasn't even convened on it yet, so we have yet to see if it's more than 1/10th the game for millions of gamers.

Not bad Mr. D, not bad. I quite agree, the PCars car list is relatively small and for anyone that's mainly played Forza and/or GT for most of their sim racing it's probably off putting. I think it's their one major weakness to be honest but at the same time, small developer, small budget, first time out of the gate and all that. It's not an issue for me mind you, I'm more concerned about racing, feel, FFB, sounds, liveries, unique tracks, the feel of a real career etc.

GT will still be the king for at least one more version of the game, but it remains to be seen if they can reach the dizzying heights they once did.

Edit: Haha, you almost had me you sly dog! I didn't mention the PCars track and car list to gloat over how wonderful it was, I was trying to figure out how they could model 75 cars and 40 tracks and license LeMans and the Indy 500, on such a relatively small budget. It makes me think the licensing fees for cars and tracks aren't all that high. I suppose it's possible they offered a cut on the back end of the game if it sells.

 

[Tenacious D]

Maybe racing venues isn't the licensing bear for a racing game, though I'm thinking it isn't cheap, and why racing games have fantasy tracks. The cars are certainly a factor, as SMS had to deal with 25-ish car companies including racing guys, while Polyphony has to negotiate with something like 80. 175 some odd models for P CARS versus several hundred in Gran Turismo. And cars are the marketable commodity in motorsports, so the margins might be wider.

But since this is the legacy track thread, I'm thinking that the old GT tracks like Midfield and Red Rock Valley would fit well into some of those racing leagues I want to see in GT7. Both asphalt, city and offroad, I love 'em all and think they should all be brought over to PS4, as well as whatever we can get in GT6.

But here's another question. After racing for a couple of weekends in GRID, I've noticed that the tracks and cars both aren't all that wonderfully detailed. The cars in particular seem down towards the Standard side of the scale. And I don't mind. Having new tracks to learn or re-learn is part of the fun of a racing game. Now I know that incredible detail is what we'd love to see in a PS4 Gran Turismo, but would lesser detail be okay so we could get a few more tracks in? Those racing leagues require some iconic venues to race on, and aren't in Gran Turismo yet like Donnington and Hockenheim. And Kaz wants to squeeze in as many racing groups as possible in upcoming games, according to the latest Eurogamer interview. I'm thinking some generic detail and shortcuts would be okay in order to get in as many locations as possible.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Maybe racing venues isn't the licensing bear for a racing game, though I'm thinking it isn't cheap, and why racing games have fantasy tracks. The cars are certainly a factor, as SMS had to deal with 25-ish car companies including racing guys, while Polyphony has to negotiate with something like 80. 175 some odd models for P CARS versus several hundred in Gran Turismo. And cars are the marketable commodity in motorsports, so the margins might be wider.

But since this is the legacy track thread, I'm thinking that the old GT tracks like Midfield and Red Rock Valley would fit well into some of those racing leagues I want to see in GT7. Both asphalt, city and offroad, I love 'em all and think they should all be brought over to PS4, as well as whatever we can get in GT6.

But here's another question. After racing for a couple of weekends in GRID, I've noticed that the tracks and cars both aren't all that wonderfully detailed. The cars in particular seem down towards the Standard side of the scale. And I don't mind. Having new tracks to learn or re-learn is part of the fun of a racing game. Now I know that incredible detail is what we'd love to see in a PS4 Gran Turismo, but would lesser detail be okay so we could get a few more tracks in? Those racing leagues require some iconic venues to race on, and aren't in Gran Turismo yet like Donnington and Hockenheim. And Kaz wants to squeeze in as many racing groups as possible in upcoming games, according to the latest Eurogamer interview. I'm thinking some generic detail and shortcuts would be okay in order to get in as many locations as possible.

You can't go backwards with graphics, especially when moving up to a new console. Grid works for me because it has the atmosphere of a race weekend and extremely fast and competitive AI, the best on the PS3 IMO. It's because of this I'm willing to put up with lesser graphics. If the AI in grid resembled anything like GT's AI, I would have turned it off first night and never put it back in.

Every game has some give and take but you can't go backwards with visuals. Rest assured GT7 will be even more detailed than GT6. Whether they can do this and create some competitive, state of the art AI, remains to be seen.

I think you missed the point, again, on the licensing fees. It's not an attempt to compare to GT to PCars, I didn't mention GT in my original post on it. The larger point was, how expensive can it be to license, tracks, cars and series, if PCars can do all that on a few million bucks?

 

[Zuku]

I respect that, but... GAH!

I didn't know Trial Mountain was ported from GT4 that's just turrible.

Anyways looking at that car and looking at the scenery you can tell something doesn't match up. I'm just saying if you're making a game on PS4 make it next-gen not a mix of past/current/next-gen

I still classify PS4 as next-gen seeing as I don't have one .

Anyways there shouldn't be tracks that don't have some kind of Day/Night Cycle and Weather System. Honestly I wouldn't even say much about the tracks in general if PD made them more dynamic to begin with. I say that because driving around certain tracks is a bore like watching paint dry. Trial Mountain was one of them.

Adding onto that if 75% of the tracks had dynamic elements and more life into them then one track not having it wouldn't be a problem for me it's the fact that virtually every track feels barren.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I didn't know Trial Mountain was ported from GT4 that's just turrible.

Anyways looking at that car and looking at the scenery you can tell something doesn't match up. I'm just saying if you're making a game on PS4 make it next-gen not a mix of past/current/next-gen

I still classify PS4 as next-gen seeing as I don't have one .

Anyways there shouldn't be tracks that don't have some kind of Day/Night Cycle and Weather System. Honestly I wouldn't even say much about the tracks in general if PD made them more dynamic to begin with. I say that because driving around certain tracks is a bore like watching paint dry. Trial Mountain was one of them.

Adding onto that if 75% of the tracks had dynamic elements and more life into them then one track not having it wouldn't be a problem for me it's the fact that virtually every track feels barren.

Indeed. PD needs to add more life into GT7. When I play GRID: Autosport, the tracks all have life in them. When I mean by "life", I mean the tracks are "alive", not a ghost town seen in many of GT6's tracks, like RBR. GT7 will also need balloons and helicopters in the air, so the sky gets love like the tracks as well.

Whaaat? PD doesn't have the time for that because their too small of a company? Well I guess they have more time to import tracks rather than update them, I mean since standard cars are coming back, why should they waste time aiming for quality? Oh wait! Maybe there'll be updated in a "future update", since Kaz quote on quote -

"It's technically possible"

 

[Tenacious D]

Grid works for me because it has the atmosphere of a race weekend and extremely fast and competitive AI, the best on the PS3 IMO.

Oh good Lord... those bots have managed to be worse than the bots in Forza. You must really like coming up on a car careening back and forth for no reason.

As for how SMS managed to produce P CARS on an $8 million budget, that is pretty impresive. Assuming the game doesn't come out like Live For Speed with curious issues that a bigger budget would fix. But so far the early builds have impressed people, so I'm hopeful about the release on PS4 this fall.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh good Lord... those bots have managed to be worse than the bots in Forza. You must really like coming up on a car careening back and forth for no reason.

As for how SMS managed to produce P CARS on an $8 million budget, that is pretty impresive. Assuming the game doesn't come out like Live For Speed with curious issues that a bigger budget would fix. But so far the early builds have impressed people, so I'm hopeful about the release on PS4 this fall.

The only time I've seen a car weave is when it comes out of the corner after taking an agressive inside line and gets a little too much oversteer and wheelspin on exit...you know, kind of like what happens in real life sometimes. If that's the only flaw you can point out...well what can I say. For those that aren't familiar with the game, here is a race against the AI in the endurance class. Judge for yourself. It's not perfect, but it's a damn sight better than GT by a country mile.

 

[Tenacious D]

It occurred to me when I saw those Prototypes that I had done all my racing in the Touring Car section so far, and I'm thinking they really wanted you to feel the bruising of a BTCC race. I have yet to try the other disciplines, but I'm too distracted by GT6 to progress very fast. I race part of a "season," then get tired of it and run back to GT6. Or I fire up Forza to create a race car.

Hopefully, the bots in the other race types are as disciplined as these guys.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Tracks, cars, features, nothing should be removed from game to game IMO. I guess I am just burnt out beyond belief that developers keep performing the practice of releasing unfinished games or deleting previous features to get their next game released.

I am clearly not alone because the poll is currently at 66% agreeing with what I said.