Gran Turismo 7 Rumored as PlayStation 5 Launch Title

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. YoBuck

    YoBuck

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    Can’t see it myself.
    Anyway next gen won’t make them make a different game - they need to go back to basics for AI hire new staff for that. The skill set has always lacked for AI. This day and age no excuses.
    Instead of GTS Gt7 Gt8 just make that base game with a future proof engine and build on it. There plenty of pc games 10+ years old that have done it.
    If the PS4 had 3 more years in it GTS could be an awesome game, super deep careers online and sp, bucket loads of cars and tracks
     
  2. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I don't doubt that GT7 has been targeted as a launch title, just as GT2000, GTHD and GT Vision all were.


    Which gives you an idea of PD's ability to actually hit deadlines and targets.

    You also seem to forget that the last three GT titles have been released in seriously unfinished conditions, in reality, the full list of features for GT6 never actually got released and we had to wait for two years after the title launched before the majority of features originally targeted for launch actually arrived. With GT5 we had a similar story, with the added 'bonus' of standard cars and tracks being thrown in at the last minute as PD clearly didn't have the resource to once again hit deadlines.

    Look at the current gen and we have the same scenario playing out again, a title released with a dearth of content that takes years to populate (with content that is mainly reworked from GT5 and 6)!

    In terms of real development times, PD is taking longer and longer to deliver the final product, they are simply now leveraging the post-launch period to add in content originally targeted for the launch. Now you may say that other devs do a similar thing, and that is to a degree true, but no one else comes even close to the extent that PD have done this.

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. This applies in spades for PD and GT development.

    What you have listed here is the exact same list of hopes that have come with every PD title since the PS1 days.

    Reusable assets? Promised in the move from PS2 to PS3, and again in the move from PS3 to PS4. To date, it never happened,

    Prettier Graphics? Aside from the nonsense that was Standard Cars and Track in the PS3 era this one they get, in spades.

    Larger Grids? See the original tech demo for GT HD, massive grids, end result has never made it to a GT title

    Advanced Physics? Class-leading physics have been promised and claimed for every release and to be blunt has never been achieved since the PS1 days. The GT series is an enjoyable enough drive, but in terms of physics has been a generation behind a lot of the genre for a very long time.

    The simple reason for this? PD has always prioritised graphics over everything else, and with the finite system resources on a console that has always and will always limit them in terms of physics and grid sizes, the claim of ray-tracing actually pretty much confirms that will be once again the case.

    As for T-10 can do it with Forza so PD can do it with GT, one has a track record of managing it the other doesn't.

    People raise the development timescales of PD with good reason, can you honestly say that GT5, GT6 and GTS were launched in anything close to a fully realised state?

    That first party development has switched to the PS5 makes no difference at all, PD we know, was one of the very first studios to get access to PS3 dev kits, that didn't result in a launch day GT, ditto with the PS2, ditto with the PS4.
     
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  3. abrahamx

    abrahamx

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    Sorry to shock you but its true. I did not play video games from about 2000 till just about a few months ago. So I have not been in a position to hear any rumors. I do know when it came out but thanks for the reminder. Twarly on.
     
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  4. symaski62

    symaski62

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    hello :)

    attention ! ;) PS4 & PS3

    https://www.playstation.com/en-in/legal/energy-efficiency/

    Active Power Consumption

    PlayStation®3 model
    • Active gaming: 76.3 W
    -------------

    Active Power Consumption

    PlayStation®4 Pro model
    • Active gaming: 146.4 W

    PlayStation®4 model
    • Active gaming: 78.2 W
    -------------

    Active Power Consumption

    PlayStation®5 model
    2019 or 2020 yaer
    • Active gaming: 100 or 150 W
    hummm
     
  5. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    Not at all. GG were at 250 while they were making Killzone SF and had Horizon in pre production. DLC does not require an entire dev team to support. Most studios have a small set of devs work on DLC while the rest move onto the next game.

    PD has. The technical expertise at PD is second to none. Sony regularly uses them to show off the latest system or features.

    1 year from launch is also a good idea.

    It's more like a list of what every racing game seeks to improve with sequels.

    Even more laughable is you trying to frame it as hopes when graphics, grid sizes and physics have all been improved in GT games up till now :lol:

    False.

    PD have already shown higher resolution assets.

    [​IMG]

    Grid sizes have been continuously getting larger and will continue as hardware becomes more powerful.

    GT3 was 1 year from the launch of PS2.
    Didn't happen with PS4 because it was decided that GT6 would be a PS3 title.

    In both cases PD released a title close to the launch of the next system. Sony and PD are not going to make the same mistake of GT6.
     
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  6. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot

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    What seems to be at a loss of other features like dynamic TOD and weather. It would be nice if they can have a better balance around that regard, instead of having to remove things in order to get their in a locked state. Which goes hand in hand with the mentioning of being overly focused on outright visual fidelity over much else.

    I think if there was a much more balanced approached with the game design decisions, than we could have even bigger advancements in things like grids and physics, while not having to remove features to get it done in the process.

    :odd: um.. that they've shown higher resolution pre-developed scenes means that the claim that they've said that assets are reusable plenty of times in the past, and it never happened, is false?

    Which basically proves his point.
     
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  7. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Indeed, however, I was talking about those areas in specific relation to the GT series and how they have dealt with them, so your attempt to move the goalposts isn't required.


    You missed the following in your eagerness to try and deflect.

    Graphics: I fully acknowledge that PD always make leaps forward in this area, it was quite clear so I've no idea how you managed to miss it.

    Grid Size: You utterly missed the point that in a tech demo PD showed off grid sizes that we have never seen before in GT titles (or for that matter any racing title on a console at the time), yet that never made it to a final product

    Physics: YOu missed that I acknowledged that each GT does have better physics than the past and that the claim I was replying to was in regard to advanced physics. The simple fact is that GT has, since leaving the PS1 era, had physics behind other titles in the genre.

    You also missed that I pointed out this has always been because PD has prioritised graphics over the other areas, its really not a difficult concept and one that I clearly stated and summarised (as I have once again done here) and you failed to read and understand in your eagerness to hit the reply button.


    That's a tech demo, PD has shown off a lot of things in tech demos, doesn't mean they become reality, so no it's not false and we will not know if it's false until the next GT title is actually released.

    What we do know is that every time the claim has been made to-date it has been proven to have been overly optimistic on PDs part, and it was the historic track record of released titles (not tech demos and promo pieces) I was clearly referencing.

    And still not match what has been shown in tech demos and likely still be sacrificed at the altar of overall graphics performance, as I have already said.

    Which means that none of them was launch titles, so thank you for so clearly illustrating that what I said was 100% accurate.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  8. QRacer_31

    QRacer_31 Premium

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    Pointless race to the highest resolution. Racing games need a stable frame rate more than a massive resolution boost. I’m going to stick with 1080p and hope the frame rate mode is a lot better than it is on the PS4. Should be based on the announced specs.
     
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  9. Hoopzah

    Hoopzah

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    HOLY @-@($)
     
  10. Auditore

    Auditore

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    I'm not giving them a pass,PD themselves realized their old ways were outdated that's why they started outsorcing their production.
     
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  11. queleuleu

    queleuleu

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  12. Auditore

    Auditore

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    The rumor also says Sony will have one month exclusivity for GTA 6 which is some bull:censored:,it also seems unreliable because it comes from a small third party developer which is weird(why would a third party developer know about next gen exclusivity deals and exclusive next gen games?)
     
  13. SUPRASTAR0003

    SUPRASTAR0003

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    There are so many standard cars that are not yet premium that they need to work on. There’s no way GT7 would be coming next year.
     
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  14. BrunusCL82

    BrunusCL82

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    I think PD is extremely stuck in its work. There are few employees and there is probably a conservative or old-fashioned mentality that can get in the way.

    If it were Sony, I would acquire Kunos Simulazioni and start PD Europe. It would be directly responsible for the production of European circuits and Italian cars.

    I do not know. I just know that I would like GT7 to come with many cars and racetracks. Perhaps acquiring the license of some championships would help bring a good cast of cars and circuits.

    Licenses such:

    - WEC (Hypercars, LMP1s, GTEs and circuits)
    - DTM (cars and circuits)
    - IndyCar (one car, but several American circuits).
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  15. HarVee

    HarVee

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    Why so all the work Kunos has put into creating a good physics engine and establishing itself as a high quality Sim race studio can go to waste because of Kaz's age old excuse of hardware limitations and obsession with having the most detailed muffler?

    Nah keep them separate. If Sony wants to create PDi Europe than they can do so without being an EA to Kunos.
     
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  16. AlanH49

    AlanH49

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    I take everything you say on board. But I’ve also closely followed this industry for over 30 years. The rate of change is accelerating to the point previous gens tell us very little about what’s happening today. Heck, Sony & PD themselves, have both made fundamental strategy changes in the past 2 years alone.

    The transition to PS5 will be unlike any gen. While the hardware will set a much higher baseline performance benchmark, the actual developer & user experience, will be more akin to PS4 Slim to PS4 Pro. Neither can it be underestimated how big a leap the CPU will be, with huge implications for a title like GT7. PS3 to PS4 CPU gains were marginal. PS4 to PS5 will deliver over 4x the performance. An area PC gaming has had a massive advantage over consoles for well over a decade.

    As stated previously, 2020 would be the expected timeline for the next GT, with or without PS5. I’m pretty confident GT7 will be one of the initial PS5 showcase titles.

    There’s zero chance the vast majority on non-premium cars will return to GT. Most are neither historically significant or fan favourites.

    What’s more, cars/tracks built for GTS, will carry over to GT7.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  17. Snaeper

    Snaeper Premium

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    You'll have to forgive people like Scaff and I for being "We'll believe it when we see it" types.

    Because this is all stuff I've heard before and it's not happened yet.
     
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  18. HarVee

    HarVee

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    It wouldn't surprise me if PDi and Kaz already had went through the list and determined which cars they'll mesh again for newer titles. Chances are a select few of the higher grade performance models will make a return at some point in the distant future. But I don't see PDi spending time to mesh all those '90s and '00s Kei cars again. Lower grade cars in the next games will mostly be newer models.

    To be honest I think PDi should not spend as much time making the standard cars premium and instead spend more time on creating modern cars and modernizing the car list. I always liked how in the PS2 era each game had the latest models in them and had more of an emphasis on then-current goings in the automotive world than from the past.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
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  19. fordlaser

    fordlaser Premium

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    I totally agree with this below.
     
  20. o000o

    o000o

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    What? GT physics are left behind too? Maybe debatable against true hardcores like PCARS2 or AC that this is not made like them to make GTS more accessible, but better than Forza? I think only fanboys say that. Forza is widely claimed to be 'simcade' and Turn 10 said they don't want to make utra realistic game but make a passion for cars.

    @BrunusCL82 For all complaints about GT Sport, there were no first console GT that has many cars. GT1, GT3, GT5's Premium Cars also had 160-200 cars like GTS,

    @Snaeper If PD gave a news, ppl will say it's fake we haven't seen it. If PD hasn't gave a news, ppl protest where are they going this time. OK PD's always wrong. Sony should just close them back in the past.

    @HarVee You know how the PS2 era add so much of irrelevant past cars like Group Cs or Model T or Benz Carriages :lol: BTW When did Kaz complain for PS4 as hardware limitations? I recall them saying only PS3 for such and considering PS4 to be ideal work.
     
  21. HarVee

    HarVee

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    My posts were about the main series or aka pre-GTS. I have not played GTS--won't until they remove the online requirement--and don't consider it a main series title but rather a spin-off.

    I'm aware that PS2 era games had older models and I am in no way saying the series should not have older cars. But rather put the primary focus on modern cars alas how the PS2 and PS1 eras were. You seem to think I'm against having old cars. I personally love Group C cars, but I would also love for the series to return to its roots philosophy of "driving your car on the television". Kaz's words, not mine. And to do that the series needs to let other modern brands and model line ups take precedence in GT7.
     
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  22. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Fair enough, but it's very early days in that regard to see exactly how well that plays out.

    I've followed it since I got a ZX81 in 1981, it developed my love of tech and IT and part of the reason why I now work in the Automotive IT sector.

    The rate of change has always increased, that basic tenant has been known and in place since Moore's law was proposed back in '65. What that exponential increase in power brings with it is an increase in the complexity of development, which is why software development times have not been reducing, quite the opposite. This has given rise to the need for larger dev teams, greater dev costs and greater time (the basic project management triangle, to be able to reduce the time element the other two much increase), which is why for the likes of the CoD series to release annually they now need three separate and very large dev teams, which is why Rockstar no longer are able to churn out the GTS series and associated titles with anything like the frequency they did, which is why the Forza series needs two studios to alternate between the two titles releases.

    Yes, PD is starting to adapt to this demand, but they have done so rather late in the game, having vocally resisted doing so for a long time, and these kind of structural changes in development cycles are rarely smooth and right first time.


    See above that only makes PD's task of hitting a launch window release more difficult, regardless of how good the toolkits and middleware that Sony provides is. Your point here actually argues against them being able to do it, not for them being able to do it.


    The timeline would at best be for a without PS5 release, the added complexity of a new system to develop for adds to this development time, it doesn't reduce it. The with PS5 scenario adds to the timeline length unless Sony has broken every industry trend ever and provided a complete set of middleware and tools from day 1 that PD and other studios got hands-on with the dev kit, which is highly unlikely.

    Would I love a release day racing title for the PS5? 100% yes, and I would have no issue if it was a new GT (ACC would be my personal wish list one), however, PDs track record is firmly weighed against them in that regard. A new platform (with most likely incomplete toolsets and middleware), being a late arrival to the concept of outsourcing, a history of late/incomplete releases, and a historic over-optimistic view on the ability to transfer assets across generations are all factors PD would have to overcome to achieve this. To overcome all of these challenges (and most likely others that have slipped my mind) is a rather high bar indeed, and one that I personally don't see happening. I would rather PD don't aim for a locked date and actually work on delivering a feature complete title that is stable at launch for the first time in two generations!


    Fan favourites differ massively, many people dislike that Kei cars have been included in the GTS updates, while I love the things and have my fingers crossed for the AZ-1, a point clearly illustrated by another member I reply to towards the end of this post.

    You are still ignoring that this has been claimed twice before by PD and never happened.

    OK, Forza and GTS are bedfellows in the place they hold on the sliding scale from pure arcade to full blown sim, GT as a series does somethings better and FM as a series does other things better, but both (as you wish to use the term) fall into the 'simcade' catagory.

    One example of this from the FM side is that Forza has had a more complete and details tyre model than PD for over a decade.

    Nor is it debatable in comparison to PC2 or AC, it's clearly demonstrable. I enjoy playing GTS, I do so pretty much every night, as I do with AC and/or PC2. I enjoy it in the same way that I enjoy the F1 and WRC titles, that I enjoy the Dirt Rally series despite SLRE being a better sim. I enjoy GTS knowing full well that it has issues with its tyre model, damper model and its aero model that put it behind AC and PC2; that its track surface modelling is behind the other two or that its implementation of such systems as TC, ABS, hybrid systems etc. is basic and also contains flaws. It's not a subjective area for discussion, but a quite objectively demonstrable area.

    PD haven't provided this news, its a rumour from an unknown source.

    Group C cars are irrelevant past cars?

    So some of the fastest and most iconic cars to ever race at one of the most famous races on the planet are irrelevant? The very first car and the very first mass production car are irrelevant?

    For someone so eager to defend PD you seem to have missed one of the stated aims of the GT series that has been consistent throughout the series entire life span, which is to provide a history of the automobile and motorsport.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  23. TheNuvolari

    TheNuvolari

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  24. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Unless the licencing fell through and given that we have had a TT title since then it does seem unlikely, much as I would love to see the mountain course in a driving title as well as more bike titles.
     
  25. ArR29

    ArR29

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    I don't think Gran turismo primary focus is about modern up to date or popular cars. GT3 for example is full of obscure and outdated models with some new and modern cars added into the mix.

    When I think about Gran Turismo this picture comes to my mind. I'm not saying they shouldnt add up to date cars but if people really wants PD to go back to their roots then they should let them focus on those normal everyday car that most people haven't heard before.
    IMG_20181130_054235.jpg
     
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  26. Walkinshaw

    Walkinshaw

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    Ok my two cents and all just hypothetical

    Could GTSport have been a clue (also testing the market) to there now being two types of Gran Turismo games.
    GT7 could be about, diverse list of cars, car customisation, an open world element, fun etc.
    GTSport will now be the title for online sim style racing, strict rules, proper tracks, skill etc.
    Both showcasing the beautiful graphics that GT is known for.

    Think Forza and Horizon, for Sony not to copy this successful concept onto the Playstation is a wasted opportunity imo. People were skepitcal of Horizon at first but it’s now arguably the most popular Forza series. It’s a console seller. And before people say it will split the GT community, I really think it won’t, most will buy and play both styles of game, just like most XBox owners have both Forza and Horizon.

    Kaz has spoken of open world before. Great opportunity to implement it.
     
  27. o000o

    o000o

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    (mistake)
     
  28. o000o

    o000o

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    (screwed up)
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2019
  29. Nexus

    Nexus

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    It's a nice idea, but I don't think PD has the manpower to do this. Forza Motorsport and Horizon have their own dedicated teams, and those games are released with an alternating release schedule. PD (presumably) has only one team working full time on a single game, and it takes them a few years to release each game. And even then, their games are often released incomplete.
     
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  30. GTV0819

    GTV0819

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    If only GTS had been released earlier like 3 years ago and PD has been developing the new next-gen game already after it was immediately released, then by 2020 it should be finished. But that's not the case. Who knows though..