Gran Turismo - Open World Freeroam? (Read OP)

[Omegator24V]

Ummm, Pälzer-Gebiet? That sounds a lot like where I'm from. And, then, there's the crazy half-French neighbours from Saarland. (If anyone here played the game "the Saboteur," they'd understand.)

There's always some kind of "War" going between Pfalz and Saarland... ;-D

 

[Flaco13]

There's always some kind of "War" going between Pfalz and Saarland... ;-D

The "Pfalz" (Palatinate) isn't exactly 'cool' with any of its neibourghs. Be it Baden, Saarland, Elsass (Alsace),Kurpfalz (Cur-Palatinate) or Rheinhessen (Rhine-Hassia).

We are going way off topic guys

 

[Griffith500]

Briiliant Idea. Lets copy FORZA Horizon

Sarcasm detected.

I've got a genuinely brilliant idea, how about engaging brain before dismissing something?

As has been said, "free roam" has this bizarre, negative connotation from recent open-world games (I suspect it's pure snobbery, knowing or otherwise), but there is absolutely no reason to think that adding a little more spatial freedom in the context of a Gran Turismo game will make it like Forza Horizon, or Burnout Paradise, or TDU etc.

It will make it GT with more freedom, which is what a lot of us do want - probably you too, if you gave it some thought.

 

[Flaco13]

Sarcasm detected.

I've got a genuinely brilliant idea, how about engaging brain before dismissing something?

As has been said, "free roam" has this bizarre, negative connotation from recent open-world games (I suspect it's pure snobbery, knowing or otherwise), but there is absolutely no reason to think that adding a little more spatial freedom in the context of a Gran Turismo game will make it like Forza Horizon, or Burnout Paradise, or TDU etc.

It will make it GT with more freedom, which is what a lot of us do want - probably you too, if you gave it some thought.

+100 to this ^^ 👍

 

[snowgt]

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced about this free-roam-but-no-racing-idea.

Reason 1: GT5 is a racing game. It's not a social network. Online functions in GT5 have one purpose and one purpose only: bringing together people who want to race each other. If you want to do something else - I say try Facebook. If you want to cruise around in your gold-chrome abomination and earn some "street cred" (hey, an oxymoron!), GT5 is not the game for it.

Reason 2: One of GT5's features is the detailed scenery on the side of the tracks. Now, how long do you think it would take to model anything close to that standard for a sufficiently large area that you could call it "free roam"?

The only purpose for a large scenery with no fixed track that I can imagine makes sense, is to lay a variable course into the scenery. That would in essence be an enhancement to the course maker (fixed scenery, but player-directed track definition).

Disclaimer: This is just personal opinion. I just think GT5 should stick to what it does best and then try to do it even better instead of ending up doing everything average.

 

[ITCC_Andrew]

There's always some kind of "War" going between Pfalz and Saarland... ;-D

The "Pfalz" (Palatinate) isn't exactly 'cool' with any of its neibourghs. Be it Baden, Saarland, Elsass (Alsace),Kurpfalz (Cur-Palatinate) or Rheinhessen (Rhine-Hassia).

We are going way off topic guys

Ummm, Pälzer-Gebiet? That sounds a lot like where I'm from. And, then, there's the crazy half-French neighbours from Saarland. (If anyone here played the game "the Saboteur," they'd understand.)

All of the half Frenchies! Saarland, Alsace etc. Always a war? Something about Austria's involved in that too. And yet Germany's reputation takes the hit, because an Austrian started being a 🤬.

 

[Griffith500]

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced about this free-roam-but-no-racing-idea.

Reason 1: GT5 is a racing game. It's not a social network. Online functions in GT5 have one purpose and one purpose only: bringing together people who want to race each other. If you want to do something else - I say try Facebook. If you want to cruise around in your gold-chrome abomination and earn some "street cred" (hey, an oxymoron!), GT5 is not the game for it.

Reason 2: One of GT5's features is the detailed scenery on the side of the tracks. Now, how long do you think it would take to model anything close to that standard for a sufficiently large area that you could call it "free roam"?

The only purpose for a large scenery with no fixed track that I can imagine makes sense, is to lay a variable course into the scenery. That would in essence be an enhancement to the course maker (fixed scenery, but player-directed track definition).

Disclaimer: This is just personal opinion. I just think GT5 should stick to what it does best and then try to do it even better instead of ending up doing everything average.

Gran Turismo is and always has been about the cars. The racing was only ever arcade-like. It's a driving game - what people take away from driving is a very individual thing, so the better GT can cater to that individualism (something Kaz is very keen on), the more people will get a satisfying driving experience from the game.

On Reason 1: GT5 has plenty of "social" features already. It is a social game, in as much as people have been playing GT socially as long as it's been around. Again, individualism is the key here. And, once again, "free roam" is not necessarily NFSU2.

On Reason 2: One of GT's historical "weaknesses" has been its focus on the cars, to the detriment of the scenery. "2D trees", low-res textures, missing props etc. You are putting up limitations where limitations don't exist - the course creator themes have dynamic scenery superimposed onto a few pre-made fixed terrains with a bit of fixed scenery on them. Look into procedural generation, it's been a feature of computer games practically since their inception.

What GT "does best" is clearly not the racing, unless, perhaps, if you go online, at which point it's more-or-less a social feature.

 

[Flaco13]

Gran Turismo is and always has been about the cars. The racing was only ever arcade-like. It's a driving game - what people take away from driving is a very individual thing, so the better GT can cater to that individualism (something Kaz is very keen on), the more people will get a satisfying driving experience from the game.

On Reason 1: GT5 has plenty of "social" features already. It is a social game, in as much as people have been playing GT socially as long as it's been around. Again, individualism is the key here. And, once again, "free roam" is not necessarily NFSU2.

On Reason 2: One of GT's historical "weaknesses" has been its focus on the cars, to the detriment of the scenery. "2D trees", low-res textures, missing props etc. You are putting up limitations where limitations don't exist - the course creator themes have dynamic scenery superimposed onto a few pre-made fixed terrains with a bit of fixed scenery on them. Look into procedural generation, it's been a feature of computer games practically since their inception.

What GT "does best" is clearly not the racing, unless, perhaps, if you go online, at which point it's more-or-less a social feature.

+100 to this ^^ (again, lol)
GT is about driving. Let us experience every possible aspect of driving virtually. With racing playing a leading role, no doubt. But theres other ways to enjoy and celebrate the whole Automotive Culture, and that is what Gran Turismo really is about.
Think of photomode, museum cards. Cars like Schwimmwagen and others wich are obviously not made for racing...

 

[Earth]

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced about this free-roam-but-no-racing-idea.

Reason 1: GT5 is a racing game. It's not a social network. Online functions in GT5 have one purpose and one purpose only: bringing together people who want to race each other. If you want to do something else - I say try Facebook. If you want to cruise around in your gold-chrome abomination and earn some "street cred" (hey, an oxymoron!), GT5 is not the game for it.

Well, that's not necessarily true. When I first went online in GT5 I spent alot of time just driving around the Nurburgring in "free run" with various other drivers in various different cars. I Remember there being one popular room that was very social. The guys would park their cars right outside the Nurburgring pits, talk about their rides, then they'd go run a lap around the track and stop again. After that they'd change cars and do it all over again.

Such car meetups would work much better on an open road then the Nurburgring. There's definitely always been an audience for it.

 

[JBanton]

I'm sorry, but I'm not convinced about this free-roam-but-no-racing-idea.

Reason 1: GT5 is a racing game. It's not a social network. Online functions in GT5 have one purpose and one purpose only: bringing together people who want to race each other. If you want to do something else - I say try Facebook. If you want to cruise around in your gold-chrome abomination and earn some "street cred" (hey, an oxymoron!), GT5 is not the game for it.

When did anybody say there would be no racing?

Also the last time I checked the phrase was "The Real Driving Simulator"

 

[bzking23]

i personally don't like the idea, gt is a racing game not a free roam game. they would be spreading a little too fart wit making a free roam game, it might sound like a cool concept but i could see a lot of people getting bored of it like in a month

 

[Flaco13]

i personally don't like the idea, gt is a racing game not a free roam game. they would be spreading a little too fart wit making a free roam game, it might sound like a cool concept but i could see a lot of people getting bored of it like in a month

I respect your opinion, but there are certainly people who will enjoy a free-roam a very long time and about what GT is...

...GT is about driving. Let us experience every possible aspect of driving virtually. With racing playing a leading role, no doubt. But theres other ways to enjoy and celebrate the whole Automotive Culture, and that is what Gran Turismo really is about.
Think of photomode, museum cards. Cars like Schwimmwagen and others wich are obviously not made for racing...

...and I think manys a share this opinion with me.

 

[nickparke22]

I think that having a free roam would be a great addition to Gran Turismo 5. If they were to do that I think they should take the actual world and put it in the game. Think of driving up and down slopes of Pikes Peak. Wouldn't that be great. I think that PD should also create a system in which there could be upwards of 100 people on a map. Of course these maps wouldn't be small. But what if you like car shows, usually there aren't enough people in one room that will actually cooperate with you for your car show. If you had 75 people in one free roam map. 25 to 45 of them might want to have a car show. Also I think that pd needs to add more cars because you wouldn't want a room full of GTRs. Give me feedback. Thanks

 

[JBanton]

I think that having a free roam would be a great addition to Gran Turismo 5. If they were to do that I think they should take the actual world and put it in the game. Think of driving up and down slopes of Pikes Peak. Wouldn't that be great. I think that PD should also create a system in which there could be upwards of 100 people on a map. Of course these maps wouldn't be small. But what if you like car shows, usually there aren't enough people in one room that will actually cooperate with you for your car show. If you had 75 people in one free roam map. 25 to 45 of them might want to have a car show. Also I think that pd needs to add more cars because you wouldn't want a room full of GTRs. Give me feedback. Thanks

It sounds like a good idea, having various different real world locations, say pikes peak, german autobahn, heathrow airport, Ibiza coast stelvio pass etc.

As for 75+ people in one room, on current hardware that may be difficult, unless we have the free-roam as a separate title, but IDK, my brain can't compute techincal capabilities at this point in time

 

[Flaco13]

I think that having a free roam would be a great addition to Gran Turismo 5. If they were to do that I think they should take the actual world and put it in the game. Think of driving up and down slopes of Pikes Peak. Wouldn't that be great. I think that PD should also create a system in which there could be upwards of 100 people on a map. Of course these maps wouldn't be small. But what if you like car shows, usually there aren't enough people in one room that will actually cooperate with you for your car show. If you had 75 people in one free roam map. 25 to 45 of them might want to have a car show. Also I think that pd needs to add more cars because you wouldn't want a room full of GTRs. Give me feedback. Thanks

If PD was really working on it, the easiest way to make a free roam would be they take Toscana and Aso Mountain from the course creator into a Map, add many roads, passes and just cross them. Add intersections and crossroads.

If you look at the start/finish straight at Toscana you see a dirt road leading somewhere. Connect this dirt road to get you to Eiger... for example.

Or take an exit and end up on Route 7...

Might take some time loading, they could pop in some kind of demo, instead of a boring loading bar?

 

[Griffith500]

This idea of several people online, with a linked "total, singular" world sounds awfully MMO-like.
It could be done, but the problem with driving games is that things need updating very often, so latency and bandwidth are king.
When you've got 75 cars in one area, all that updating would be killer without some sort of scaling (which GT5 already does, watch any online replay and focus on any car that is far ahead of / behind your car). The problem really is that a player's connection would be hammered in busy areas, so the scaling would be used to the extreme, making everyone look like they're lagging.

Staying with the "total" world idea, you could use shards with a total player count around 16 for each (sub)area, so that as you enter a new area, you switch "server" to one that has space for you. That could make meeting up with friends very difficult, though, and requires PD to really beef up their server infrastructure and distribute it better across the globe, even if they stick with a peer-to-peer model somehow.

There are other hosting options, but I think MMO-ifying GT is probably leap-frogging the "free roam" idea and really taking it somewhere else. You could keep the 16 player rooms and still roam free in a large "network" of roads, helped by the inclusion of a map, say, which shows where everyone is and allows players to pick their starting point (e.g. Toscana gas stations, etc.).

Failing that, a few "course generator"-like areas (or Special Stage City), e.g. a couple for each theme, with branching, different kinds of roads etc. would be fine. It'd be much better if you could drive off those themes and into new ones, follow signs for real-world locations such as circuits and photomode locations, but that's again several steps ahead. Loading isn't an issue, because of streaming, however blending the themes is, and even more so, blending from the theme into the "location" - tunnels might work, or similar.

The smaller player count doesn't really matter, either, because it's fun enough with only a few of you if you stay close, especially if you're friends.

 

[JBanton]

Snip

Thanks for shedding some techincal light on the situation. 👍

It's really interesting because this then opens up the discussion as to whether such a game, or game mode would be suitable for current-gen hardware.

I'll support larger session sizes (more than sixteen) if it doesn't compromise online performance and other qualities in the process.

 

[Foxiol]

This is the most close that you can get to realistic free roam.

 

[Earth]

In terms of development time I wouldnt mind if most of the road looked like this

 

[shirakawaa]

That looks almost like SSRX without the barriers.

 

[Earth]

That looks almost like SSRX without the barriers.

Yes yes. No barriers and narrow road = much higher sense of speed and freedom.

Mountains in the background = sense of actually going somewhere even if you cant really reach them.

And the picture isn't just referencing the layout of a freeroam road, but the fact it's pretty featureless (no trees etc alongside the road) and should be easy to program many square miles of it.

Free roam adds so much more a traditional circuit cannot offer.

 

[analog]

This is the most close that you can get to realistic free roam.

That looks indeed a lot like what I envisioned when Kaz first mentioned that traffic mode, and what a free roam environment with traffic would be like without it becoming a streetracer kind of game.
For me, it would be the perfect antidote to what GT already offers (and make use of the cars in a different context) even though to many it probably appears too clinical or dull.

 

[Slash]

This is the most close that you can get to realistic free roam.

I'd pay a lot of money if GT5 had a version of that

 

[Foxiol]

Thanks Analog and Slashfan to take notice about it. And agreed with both. If it is something like that i´ll like it.

Other video making crazy things with a BMW M6 in the highway with traffic (turn down volume because of the music):



That looks fun. (i have this game now lol, not that great physics but fun as hell if you take it as a challenge)

 

[TokoTurismo]

I'm still wanting a GT Free Roam game. It'll be like the cars are going on vacation to meet players in a whole new open world area. Track games are fun too but to me, they're starting to become boring.

Yeah, yeah track racers are cool but I'm starting to dig on open world stuff now.

 

[CDOTJ89]

Free roam would be awesome... ive read some of the posts on this thread and the main thing that was highlighted to me was the fact it would be a great opportunity to meet new players.

I don't think a complete roam feature should be added as such because you might as well play "Test Drive Unlimited".

But maybe if there was a free roam option in the present lobby and GT made some more cruiser friendly tracks such as the tarmac ones for DLC, but on a larger scale so it didnt feel like you was just going in a circle ever 90seconds. I feel that could be easily added to GT5 and keep a lot of roamers happy for now.

I also added this idea for trading, see what you think...

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=259665

 

[machschnel]

Free roam?

Wouldn't you guys prefer it if, you know, Polyphony finish GT5?

 

[Patrick]

Free roam?

Wouldn't you guys prefer it if, you know, Polyphony finish GT5?

That will take a long long time.

 

[jason.clark47]

In my opinion kaz and PD should concentrate on getting the fundamental basics like SOUND right first before they try anything else

 

[Earth]

Its amazing how far behind GT appears to be falling... Any feature GT adds like 16 cars or day night cycles Forza adds it as well like a snap of the finger. Meanwhile we're still waiting for a Forza paint editor half a decade after Forza got it...

Free Roam in Forza Horizon is going to be amazing. If this generation wasn't ending I'd likely get a 360

• Gas Stations
• 65 terrain types
• Day Night Cycle
• Heat affects handling