Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[PzR Slim]

If you can take a broken suspension model, apply the numbers to a real car and set a fastest lap, there has to be something that went right. Either that or the other GT3 drivers were sleeping that VLN.

Or.....they didn't actually use the numbers and Kaz stretched the truth for marketing purposes

 

[MisterWaffles]

Or.....they didn't actually use the numbers and Kaz stretched the truth for marketing purposes

Ok, that's getting a little tinfoil-hatted there. I don't think it's THAT hard to believe.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If you can take a broken suspension model, apply the numbers to a real car and set a fastest lap, there has to be something that went right. Either that or the other GT3 drivers were sleeping that VLN.

I honestly can't tell if this is serious.

 

[PzR Slim]

Ok, that's getting a little tinfoil-hatted there. I don't think it's THAT hard to believe.

You really think that a racing team took all the years of knowledge they had gained and mountains of data they had accumulated from running the car in testing and previous events, threw it all away and relied on the settings a simcade computer game, which has been shown to be wildly incorrect, gave them?

Honestly, forget which game it is or who is involved in this discussion for a second and just read that sentence again.

 

[NixxxoN]

You really think that a racing team took all the years of knowledge they had gained and mountains of data they had accumulated from running the car in testing and previous events, threw it all away and relied on the settings a simcade computer game, which has been shown to be wildly incorrect, gave them?

Honestly, forget which game it is or who is involved in this discussion for a second and just read that sentence again.

People should stop using the word "simcade", GT is a driving simulator, just not a hardcore one.
In more or less accurate simulators you can test tons of different settings without spending any money (real car testing is expensive) so it may well have been the case.
Also GT6 having so many cars, obviously some must have more accurate and realistic physics than others, and surely the GTR's should be some of the most accurate since Nissan is very involved in it

 

[MisterWaffles]

Although unrelated mechanical issues and a lengthy rain delay eventually soured the team’s race, it does appear their efforts to prepare the car using Gran Turismo 6 paid off: the Schulze GT-R became the first Japanese car to ever sit atop the time-sheets during a qualifying session at the 24 Hours of Nurburgring, eventually securing the 26th grid position for the race.

They might go more in-depth with this topic in the 2014 Gran Turismo documentary. There must be some validity to Gran Turismo's suspension model if this claim is true.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

They might go more in-depth with this topic in the 2014 Gran Turismo documentary. There must be some validity to Gran Turismo's suspension model if this claim is true.

All that proves is that the team topped the timing sheets. It's a testament to the skill of the drivers, if anything.

Look at most any of the big modern sim-style games, and there are various racing drivers tied to them, in various capacities.

 

[MisterWaffles]

All that proves is that the team topped the timing sheets. It's a testament to the skill of the drivers, if anything.

Look at most any of the big modern sim-style games, and there are various racing drivers tied to them, in various capacities.

@Jordan wrote that article, so I'd love his opinion in this discussion.

 

[PzR Slim]

People should stop using the word "simcade", GT is a driving simulator, just not a hardcore one.
In more or less accurate simulators you can test tons of different settings without spending any money (real car testing is expensive) so it may well have been the case.
Also GT6 having so many cars, obviously some must have more accurate and realistic physics than others, and surely the GTR's should be some of the most accurate since Nissan is very involved in it

Simcade is a perfect way to describe games such as GT and FM that sit somewhere between a pure arcade game and a pure simulation game. So no, people should not stop using it. I think what you actually mean is, 'I wish people would stop using it.'

 

[Suzumiya]

I heard from Joest that the best way to setup the car is 0.0 degrees camber on both ends of the car and raise the car's front end to the highest it can be

 

[Johnnypenso]

People should stop using the word "simcade", GT is a driving simulator, just not a hardcore one.
In more or less accurate simulators you can test tons of different settings without spending any money (real car testing is expensive) so it may well have been the case.
Also GT6 having so many cars, obviously some must have more accurate and realistic physics than others, and surely the GTR's should be some of the most accurate since Nissan is very involved in it

The physics don't change from car to car, all that changes are the parameters assigned to each individual car. Given that many major elements of car setup are missing as I noted above, and others are either inaccurate or backwards, I'd really like to know how may well have been the case.

They might go more in-depth with this topic in the 2014 Gran Turismo documentary. There must be some validity to Gran Turismo's suspension model if this claim is true.

So in spite of all that is missing in the game on top of all that doesn't work or is backwards, you still think it's possible the claim could be true?

 

[Tassie_tiger]

It's certainly possible but I'd be surprised..

And you would be right to be surprised.

I still feel fairly confident that I've heard a driver (other than Kaz) talk of inputting data into GTS and then testing it on the track.
But I cannot find it, so perhaps I was dreaming there.

But I can find talk of using the M6 telemetry from real life and using that data for GTS.
So I guess that's some sort of consolation.
(You will probably need to activate closed captions)

So in spite of all that is missing in the game on top of all that doesn't work or is backwards, you still think it's possible the claim could be true?

Apologies for the snipped quote.
But I just wanted to say with regards to tuning, that I'm happy to hear (crosses fingers) of no reports regarding backwards or "negative" settings affecting GTS so far.
One of my greatest fears was that tuning would once again rely on knowing the quirks, instead of simply responding as it should.
This gives me some sort of relief and encouragement.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I heard from Joest that the best way to setup the car is 0.0 degrees camber on both ends of the car and raise the car's front end to the highest it can be

I remember the Schulze GT-R TT from the Nurburgring quite well. My ride height settings were Max Front/Min Rear and zero camber. I believe I finished in the top 100 as well.

And you would be right to be surprised.

I still feel fairly confident that I've heard a driver (other than Kaz) talk of inputting data into GTS and then testing it on the track.
But I cannot find it, so perhaps I was dreaming there.

But I can find talk of using the M6 telemetry from real life and using that data for GTS.
So I guess that's some sort of consolation.
(You will probably need to activate closed captions)

Marketing can say whatever they like. Common sense tells you that if the game physics to a significant extent are backwards and/or broken and several important parameters are missing, their statements are untrue.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Marketing can say whatever they like. Common sense tells you that if the game physics to a significant extent are backwards and/or broken and several important parameters are missing, their statements are untrue.

Yes, agreed.
But I think you'll find my reference is regarding collecting data for GTS, not for the tuning fails of GT6. 👍

 

[Greek]

Simcade is a perfect way to describe games such as GT and FM that sit somewhere between a pure arcade game and a pure simulation game. So no, people should not stop using it. I think what you actually mean is, 'I wish people would stop using it.'

"Simcade" is an oxymoron.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

@Jordan wrote that article, so I'd love his opinion in this discussion.

If you want to really get to the bottom of exactly how much transfer happened between a "special development version" of GT6 and the Schulze car in 2013, the people to talk to would be the mechanics, especially the three that were brought in from Japan for the race that year.

Needless to say, that's a bit unlikely. It'd probably be quite fascinating, however.

Many of us would probably agree that many of the modern sims can provide a good, basic foundation of knowledge for driving/racing. I have no doubt that Yamauchi-san — with a very in-depth understanding of the GT6 physics engine — was able to glean info from testing in-game, and work with the mechanics to make changes to the real car based on these findings, as necessary. But note how the original article on GT.com is worded: there are no specifics.

 

[PorscheHD]

That M6 is a widow maker in this game undriveble without TCS and i dont like TCS hehe

 

[PzR Slim]

"Simcade" is an oxymoron.

Which is why it works so well to describe this genre.

 

[NixxxoN]

Simcade is a perfect way to describe games such as GT and FM that sit somewhere between a pure arcade game and a pure simulation game. So no, people should not stop using it. I think what you actually mean is, 'I wish people would stop using it.'

Yes, I wish you and everybody stop using this word too. GT is nowhere near an arcade. Arcade is a mario kart type of game.
Its much much closer to being a simulator.
Therefore "simcade" besides being a nonsense word, is also quite innacurate aswell.

 

[PzR Slim]

Yes, I wish you and everybody stop using this word too. GT is nowhere near an arcade. Arcade is a mario kart type of game.
Its much much closer to being a simulator.
Therefore "simcade" besides being a nonsense word, is also quite innacurate aswell.

Arcade is mario kart. Hardcore sim is RF2 Pro. GT and FM sit very firmly in the middle of that so....simcade. A perfect description whether you like it or not.

 

[OdeFinn]

Thx.

And yes I understand that not everyone wants them in a game.

Graining would be one I don't know and have to look up. Are these bubbles or hairlines on the tiresurface?

I have been understanding at those often used terms "graining" and "blistering" are looking like following, first graining and second blistering (in "early" stages of it on picture, collected rubber from track hides bit of actual blisters). If I'm wrong, please correct me.

Edit: corrected Android autocorrect typo error.

 

[NixxxoN]

Arcade is mario kart. Hardcore sim is RF2 Pro. GT and FM sit very firmly in the middle of that so....simcade. A perfect description whether you like it or not.

lol disagree
Hardcore sim snobs always exaggerating

 

[PzR Slim]

lol disagree

Great comeback!

 

[NixxxoN]

Great comeback!

No need for another comeback as you will still say something like "my favorite game is a billion times more simulator than yours, ha ha!" sort of response. Yawn

 

[PzR Slim]

No need for another comeback as you will still say something like "my favorite game is a billion times more simulator than yours, ha ha!" sort of response. Yawn

My favourite racing games of all time were the PGR series of games, those were very simcade games or even close to arcade. Your problem is that you see simcade as a derogatory term when applied to a game. I use it as a good word to describe what genre a game fits into. It's not necessary to have defend, defend, defend as your mantra.

 

[super_gt]

No need for another comeback as you will still say something like "my favorite game is a billion times more simulator than yours, ha ha!" sort of response. Yawn

Мy favorite game is the real world so it really is a billion times more simulator than yours.

 

[NixxxoN]

My favourite racing games of all time were the PGR series of games, those were very simcade games or even close to arcade. Your problem is that you see simcade as a derogatory term when applied to a game. I use it as a good word to describe what genre a game fits into. It's not necessary to have defend, defend, defend as your mantra.

Not derogatory but wrong, because GT has nothing to do with an arcade game. I dont know about you but I'm more than 30 years old and I know what the word "arcade" means. I used to play the real arcade games when I was a little kid.

 

[PzR Slim]

Not derogatory but wrong, because GT has nothing to do with an arcade game. I dont know about you but I'm more than 30 years old and I know what the word "arcade" means. I used to play the real arcade games when I was a kid.

Which means I was doing it 14 years before you

 

[NixxxoN]

Which means I was doing it 14 years before you

You still dont seem to have the "arcade" concept very clear anyway.
"Light simulator" or "user-friendly simulator" for example would be more appropiate to describe GT.

 

[PzR Slim]

You still dont seem to have the "arcade" concept very clear anyway.

It's a word. Get over it.