Gran Turismo Sport: General Discussion

[sk8er913]

Why does this assumption keep showing up? That offensive material will just have to be left alone? Plenty of other games have livery editors where this is not a problem. There's a Report function in Forza. Even LittleBigPlanet allows you to report offensive content.

Or, more pertinently: GT6 already has a Report button for custom tracks that users deem offensive, and once reviewed, they're removed. There's no reason to think liveries would have to be any different.

A simple livery editor with just choosing colors for 2 or 3 tone bodies from a preset mix (similar to the Formula GT except able to repaint the individual colors). And writing text on the side in a preset fashion similar to how car numbers are would be great IMO. And very easy for PD to implement. It would also minimize "offensive liveries."

 

[JKgo]

...I have to say, I'd love to see livery editor show up in the game. Hell, at this point I'd be happy just to see larger pool of decals and logos.

A part of me is telling me to curb my enthusiasm, however - that FB reply has me slightly worried that the editor might be greatly limited in its scope.
I'm not really worried about a pimple faced teen coming up with something that he thought was funny, but rather some uptight self-important race teams taking issues with some users approximating the copyrighted logos and liveries without permission.
Usually, that wouldn't be a problem, since well, it's being done until now without anyone getting slapped with injunctions, but seeing that PDI is partnering up with FIA, teams could complain to FIA, thus complicating the future relationships.

I want to say there won't be a problem, but we are in the so-called uncharted territory here. Who knows what PDI will do, in order to play it safe?

 

[cutmeamango]

So you mean Driver number? Well why not say that in the first place, I mean its not like saying you can pick a colour and a number plate could possibly be interpreted in any other way now is it?

Driver/car numbers are placed in those things and they happen to be called number plates.

So someone else could get to pick a livery and sponsorship for a car by effectively paying for it? Interesting idea.

Seems like a natural way to further monetize the game with advertisements by replicating an existing structure, right?

Player sponsoring in competitive games is generally limited to shirts/gear and gametags, while during gameplay, which occupies most of the viewers' time, there's not much space.

So say a $200/season subscription affords you a customized livery (and other exclusive functions, sure). That would be a good revenue path while allowing the user to monetize himself too, i.e. I'm a great driver placing well and having screen time in whatever broadcasts, but I don't belong to a team. An existing team (Red Bull Gaming) could pull me in and have me run on their team with their livery (which they control further advertisements outside of the game, like uh Logitech paying them to run stickers in their car liveries) or I could pay up for my own custom livery and monetize that ad space myself, much like twitch/youtube streamers do.

Why not? After all if you float the idea you have above of outside companies/teams/people buying in livery designs then why could we not do it ourselves as well.
I'm not sure if I would be happy at having to pay to have a livery of my own design on a virtual car however, but then again we did get charged for single use paints in the past.

You certainly could as mentioned above. But by virtue of business (and it seems they do want to start one), I don't think they would or can allow users the freedom to run Gulf, Marlboro, Fina livery replicas or any other thing that may infringe copyrights or partner requirements especially if they, and I imagine they do plan to, broadcast their cup/season.

So with that you either limit customization by features (pre-made options), gate checks (like the subscription suggestion) or turn it all off in official competitions which I guess is the "sensible compromise" option.

It does indeed, but if you want to create an FIA eSports racing league (or leagues) then it falls well short (and was done by Sega way back in 2002).

I forgot there's the player/driver's name as well, so that's three codes for id function.
I think liveries offer a different layer to it all though, with its aesthetic values and potential symbolism.

But as far as my objections go, I'm not against its inclusion in any form, I just don't place any importance at all to further 'skin' customization and I don't value it as an option for personal artistic expression.

 

[Scaff]

Driver/car numbers are placed in those things and they happen to be called number plates.

If you wish to get technical on the matter, they are most commonly refereed to as plates when you are talking about karts or bikes, and backgrounds when referring to cars.

However the point I made was that it could (and was) interpreted as referring to a licence number plate.

Seems like a natural way to further monetize the game with advertisements by replicating an existing structure, right?

Player sponsoring in competitive games is generally limited to shirts/gear and gametags, while during gameplay, which occupies most of the viewers' time, there's not much space.

So say a $200/season subscription affords you a customized livery (and other exclusive functions, sure). That would be a good revenue path while allowing the user to monetize himself too, i.e. I'm a great driver placing well and having screen time in whatever broadcasts, but I don't belong to a team. An existing team (Red Bull Gaming) could pull me in and have me run on their team with their livery (which they control further advertisements outside of the game, like uh Logitech paying them to run stickers in their car liveries) or I could pay up for my own custom livery and monetize that ad space myself, much like twitch/youtube streamers do.

I have to be honest I can think of nothing that would turn a large number of people away, not that it makes it any less likely.

You certainly could as mentioned above. But by virtue of business (and it seems they do want to start one), I don't think they would or can allow users the freedom to run Gulf, Marlboro, Fina livery replicas or any other thing that may infringe copyrights or partner requirements especially if they, and I imagine they do plan to, broadcast their cup/season.

So with that you either limit customization by features (pre-made options), gate checks (like the subscription suggestion) or turn it all off in official competitions which I guess is the "sensible compromise" option.

Policing that would not be a major undertaking for player designed liveries, after all its currently done for tracks in GT6 and other titles as far as livery go (currently for anything rude/offensive - but that would be easy enough to expand).

I forgot there's the player/driver's name as well, so that's three codes for id function.
I think liveries offer a different layer to it all though, with its aesthetic values and potential symbolism.

But as far as my objections go, I'm not against its inclusion in any form, I just don't place any importance at all to further 'skin' customization and I don't value it as an option for personal artistic expression.

Personally I think that if they are going for a competitive eSport style environment then it become far more important to have a 'look' that is easily recognizable, and I just don't see a colour, driver number and name being clear enough for that.

 

[cutmeamango]

If you wish to get technical on the matter, they are most commonly refereed to as plates when you are talking about karts or bikes, and backgrounds when referring to cars.

However the point I made was that it could (and was) interpreted as referring to a licence number plate.

Getting technical, the backgrounds are the backgrounds and the numbers are the numbers of the number plates (which is the unit). There's no car/kart/bike separation. What you linked is that they are selling actual, physical, plastic plates for mounting, while racing cars utilize stickers/decals but they are still called plates. And I know you were referring to the license plates.
If you want links of companies selling "number plates" for cars: here and here.

I'll just call it signage from now on.

I have to be honest I can think of nothing that would turn a large number of people away, not that it makes it any less likely.

It certainly would be a feature for a small group as is any kind of sponsoring. Just a thought on how to monetize it inside a game, since the racing genre allows for a similar structure of what it simulates. As I said: "It'd surprise me if that was included in some form", that is, a monetized or not, in-game sponsoring/advertisement system.

Policing that would not be a major undertaking for player designed liveries, after all its currently done for tracks in GT6 and other titles as far as livery go (currently for anything rude/offensive - but that would be easy enough to expand).

It's largely done by the users and they understandably protect their interests. There's isn't a clear personal reward for reporting a Marlboro knock-off livery in comparison to an offensive one. And this policing is "after the fact". That is, you'd see a unlicensed Pennzoil (or Peen-oil) car racing before it gets removed.

You can even try to control behaviour by penalizing users that utilize anything that infringes rules.
As I mentioned, prohibiting/turning off liveries during anything official would be fire-proof while it allows users to do whatever they please outside of it.

Personally I think that if they are going for a competitive eSport style environment then it become far more important to have a 'look' that is easily recognizable, and I just don't see a colour, driver number and name being clear enough for that.

Certainly if you are going to watch X races, with the same Y participants, having an even more distinct visual would benefit these participants to create an identity with the viewers. And I'd believe if it works like any other sport or e-sport, you'll see most of the top players sponsored by some large company, so at that point it would probably work the same, with RBG/Logitech/RAZR/EG/Whatever players using their sponsors liveries.

 

[Scaff]

I periodically hear about this racing sim "evolution," and I'm at a loss as to what exactly people are talking about. Lots of cars and tracks? They've always tried to have that. Superb physics? Same. Now, if you guys mean console racer evolution, that I might understand. Whatever the case, I think the "evolution" Polyphony needs to do is broaden the focus of Gran Turismo to reflect Kazunori's experience on the track, something he has talked about attempting in GT5 and 6, and not quite made it. Like non-Horizon Forza is trying to do, be a fun racer and a sim at the same time, which F6 isn't too bad in that regard.

I'm hoping GT Sport is the first step in that direction, giving us a Gran Turismo racing sim alongside old school GT. That's the evolution I want to see.

From my own perspective what I would like to see in terms of development in GTS is (and to be fair most of these have already been done in other titles and/or pat versions of GT):

• Improved physics. GT6 did more the game along, but not as much as was suggested and certainly not far enough at all in regard to tyres, suspension and in particular aero.
  
• Either a livery editor or a wider range of real and/or good made up liveries. Given the aim of GTS I personally see this as a must.
• Flag rules and penalties based on how motorsport actually works, including DQ's for the worst offences.
  
• UDP output. The ability to run outside dashes, real time telemetry and spotters, while removing the HUD makes a big difference in my opinion.
• A massive improvement in tuning, all areas, but with a good tyre model then tyre pressures is a must
• A more realistic structured 'race day/weekend' with practice sessions, qualifying and races that mix it up a bit (sprint and main races, mandatory pit stops, etc)
• Races that actually start like races, not the majority being rolling starts that are not done correctly
• Damage that can actually result in a DNF.

In these regards GT has quite a bit of evolving to do, but most of it is either straightforward or should be on the road map already.

As for "do or die time for GT," sure, people have only been saying that since GT4.

Regardless of what people say, the series has been on a downward sales trend for a while now, and this generation PD don't have a virtual market monopoly. So while it may or may not be 'do or die' they certainly should be bringing an A game along this time.

It certainly would be a feature for a small group as is any kind of sponsoring. Just a thought on how to monetize it inside a game, since the racing genre allows for a similar structure of what it simulates. As I said: "It'd surprise me if that was included in some form", that is, a monetized or not, in-game sponsoring/advertisement system.

I agree it would be surprising to see it introduced, certainly in an 'unproven' title (as in an FIA eSports series is unproven).

It's largely done by the users and they understandably protect their interests. There's isn't a clear personal reward for reporting a Marlboro knock-off livery in comparison to an offensive one. And this policing is "after the fact". That is, you'd see a unlicensed Pennzoil (or Peen-oil) car racing before it gets removed.

You can even try to control behaviour by penalizing users that utilize anything that infringes rules.
As I mentioned, prohibiting/turning off liveries during anything official would be fire-proof while it allows users to do whatever they please outside of it.

Oh its certainly a tricky area, personally I don't see turning off liveries during anything official as being a solution that would 'sell well' as an idea to a lot of players, particularity if the result was a single colour car. As such a wide range of real and fantasy liveries may well be a better bet. They could even get users to submit liveries, which would then allow them to be policed prior the fact, gets user involvement up and opens up the range of options available.

Certainly if you are going to watch X races, with the same Y participants, having an even more distinct visual would benefit these participants to create an identity with the viewers. And I'd believe if it works like any other sport or e-sport, you'll see most of the top players sponsored by some large company, so at that point it would probably work the same, with RBG/Logitech/RAZR/EG/Whatever players using their sponsors liveries.

Agree, but that may be something for further down the line, as I mentioned above with this being an unproven concept as it stands right now.

All I will say is that if the status quo is maintained from past GT title I for one will be disappointed and view it as a missed opportunity.

 

[super_gt]

From my own perspective what I would like to see in terms of development in GTS is (and to be fair most of these have already been done in other titles and/or pat versions of GT):

• Improved physics. GT6 did more the game along, but not as much as was suggested and certainly not far enough at all in regard to tyres, suspension and in particular aero.
  
• Either a livery editor or a wider range of real and/or good made up liveries. Given the aim of GTS I personally see this as a must.
• Flag rules and penalties based on how motorsport actually works, including DQ's for the worst offences.
  
• UDP output. The ability to run outside dashes, real time telemetry and spotters, while removing the HUD makes a big difference in my opinion.
• A massive improvement in tuning, all areas, but with a good tyre model then tyre pressures is a must
• A more realistic structured 'race day/weekend' with practice sessions, qualifying and races that mix it up a bit (sprint and main races, mandatory pit stops, etc)
• Races that actually start like races, not the majority being rolling starts that are not done incorrectly
• Damage that can actually result in a DNF.

👍

 

[Mike_grpA]

Regardless of what people say, the series has been on a downward sales trend for a while now, and this generation PD don't have a virtual market monopoly. So while it may or may not be 'do or die' they certainly should be bringing an A game along this time.

While I agree 100% with the rest of your post, the downward trend is only one game (GT6) selling poorly compared to the rest of the series, and that's likely got a lot to do with the casual buyers, who would have made up the vast majority of sales of previous GT games, that probably weren't interested in GT6, considering it came out for PS3 after the PS4 had already been released. This will have had a big impact on sales.

Also, GT6 released with a lot of bugs, major online stability issues, a lack of new content over GT5, and a watered down career mode. The news of these kinds of things puts off potential buyers, you just have to look at how poorly Pcars has sold after the initial massive sales spike (due to the insane hype), thanks to the news of it's enormous number of bugs and issues spreading like wildfire.

Before GT6, PD had nothing to worry about regarding sales. GT5 was the second best selling installment in the series, outselling GT4 by a fairly small margain. If you count GT4 and GT4: Prologue sales together, the total is over 13 mill, but if you put GT5 and 5: Prologue sales together, it totals over 17 million!

So out of the over 75 million units the GT series has sold worldwide, around 22 million of those were sold on PS3, despite the relatively poor sales of GT6. For comparison, GT sales on PS1 totalled just over 20 million, and on PS2 totalled a whopping 29 million, thanks to two of the top three best selling GT games being on PS2.

If the sales of GTS are more in line with GT6, then it will surely ring alarm bells at PD, being the first GT on new hardware, but I'd be very surprised if it sells so poorly. Considering the massive install base of the PS4 already, and the hype and anticipation around the first GT games on new systems, I'd expect it to sell very well.

But again, I agree completely with the rest of your post, especially this:

From my own perspective what I would like to see in terms of development in GTS is (and to be fair most of these have already been done in other titles and/or pat versions of GT):

• Improved physics. GT6 did more the game along, but not as much as was suggested and certainly not far enough at all in regard to tyres, suspension and in particular aero.
  
• Either a livery editor or a wider range of real and/or good made up liveries. Given the aim of GTS I personally see this as a must.
• Flag rules and penalties based on how motorsport actually works, including DQ's for the worst offences.
  
• UDP output. The ability to run outside dashes, real time telemetry and spotters, while removing the HUD makes a big difference in my opinion.
• A massive improvement in tuning, all areas, but with a good tyre model then tyre pressures is a must
• A more realistic structured 'race day/weekend' with practice sessions, qualifying and races that mix it up a bit (sprint and main races, mandatory pit stops, etc)
• Races that actually start like races, not the majority being rolling starts that are not done incorrectly
• Damage that can actually result in a DNF.

In these regards GT has quite a bit of evolving to do, but most of it is either straightforward or should be on the road map already.

 

[Scaff]

While I agree 100% with the rest of your post, the downward trend is only one game (GT6) selling poorly compared to the rest of the series, and that's likely got a lot to do with the casual buyers, who would have made up the vast majority of sales of previous GT games, that probably weren't interested in GT6, considering it came out for PS3 after the PS4 had already been released. This will have had a big impact on sales.

Also, GT6 released with a lot of bugs, major online stability issues, a lack of new content over GT5, and a watered down career mode. The news of these kinds of things puts off potential buyers, you just have to look at how poorly Pcars has sold after the initial massive sales spike (due to the insane hype), thanks to the news of it's enormous number of bugs and issues spreading like wildfire.

Before GT6, PD had nothing to worry about regarding sales. GT5 was the second best selling installment in the series, outselling GT4 by a fairly small margain. If you count GT4 and GT4: Prologue sales together, the total is over 13 mill, but if you put GT5 and 5: Prologue sales together, it totals over 17 million!

So out of the over 75 million units the GT series has sold worldwide, around 22 million of those were sold on PS3, despite the relatively poor sales of GT6. For comparison, GT sales on PS1 totalled just over 20 million, and on PS2 totalled a whopping 29 million, thanks to two of the top three best selling GT games being on PS2.

If the sales of GTS are more in line with GT6, then it will surely ring alarm bells at PD, being the first GT on new hardware, but I'd be very surprised if it sells so poorly. Considering the massive install base of the PS4 already, and the hype and anticipation around the first GT games on new systems, I'd expect it to sell very well.

True, but I would balance that with generation on generation sales are down and what also should be considered is that development costs for the PS3 titles were higher than for the PS2.

If GTS hits the kind of figures GT5 did then yes it should be considered a great success, and as the first GT on the PS4 it has that as a driver. However it may not be seen as a 'core' GT title (I say 'may' because we don't yet know 100% exactly what it will be as a package) which has always had a hit on sales (if he casual market sees it as more of a Prologue/Concept title rather than a full one) and the market for sims on console is now has much more competition.

On a personal note it will still be only the second GT title I haven't pre-ordered (GT6 was the first), yet I have two other sims on pre-order for the PS4 as it stands right now. GT has gone from being a default purchase to one that has to prove itself. How widespread my kind of thinking is and how that is countered by 'new fans' is almost impossible to say, but as I mentioned earlier I think it means PD have to get GTS right, and do so from launch.

 

[NivekRJ]

I'm not going to pre-order GT Sport, either. After all, I haven't seen any in-game footage or played the beta, yet.

 

[Mike_grpA]

True, but I would balance that with generation on generation sales are down and what also should be considered is that development costs for the PS3 titles were higher than for the PS2.

If GTS hits the kind of figures GT5 did then yes it should be considered a great success, and as the first GT on the PS4 it has that as a driver. However it may not be seen as a 'core' GT title (I say 'may' because we don't yet know 100% exactly what it will be as a package) which has always had a hit on sales (if he casual market sees it as more of a Prologue/Concept title rather than a full one) and the market for sims on console is now has much more competition.

On a personal note it will still be only the second GT title I haven't pre-ordered (GT6 was the first), yet I have two other sims on pre-order for the PS4 as it stands right now. GT has gone from being a default purchase to one that has to prove itself. How widespread my kind of thinking is and how that is countered by 'new fans' is almost impossible to say, but as I mentioned earlier I think it means PD have to get GTS right, and do so from launch.

Well from three generations of GT, the PS3 gen has the second highest sales, and you also have to remember that the PS3 got soundly beaten by it's competition in unit sales. The PS2 had an enormous install base. Thanks to it being such a hot seller, it became the must-have console of it's gen. The opposite was true of the PS3, it was the Wii that was the must have for casual gamers with no brand allegiance, and the X360 also sold better than the PS3, so there is that to consider also when comparing sales of GT games on PS2 to PS3.

I agree with you on the fact that people may not see it as a 'core' installment, but that is also assuming that we don't know everything about the game before it comes out. I think PD are doing the right thing offering a public beta, because it will give everyone an idea of what the game is like. If the beta plays well, and we're given enough info to know it won't be a prologue sized game, then it should easily outsell FM6, Pcars, and AC combined.

I too won't be pre-ordering GTS, but I also won't pre order any other games, as I was taught a valuable lesson from GT6 and Pcars. I think we're in the minority though, as die-hard sim racing fans. I think GT's main audience is more than likely to buy into any and all pre-release hype, and buy the game just because it's Gran Turismo, it's PS4 exclusive, and they own a PS4.

It has to be considered a failure if it sells less than 5 million, even GT5 Prologue sold 5.4m, on a poor selling console, and it was a glorified demo. That just goes to show how a starved GT fan base can react to the tiniest crumb of new GT 'ness. Lol.

 

[Tired Tyres]

PS3 out sold the Xbox360 in the end mate so that that part of your argument doesn't hold water.

• Improved physics. GT6 did more the game along, but not as much as was suggested and certainly not far enough at all in regard to tyres, suspension and in particular aero.
  
• Either a livery editor or a wider range of real and/or good made up liveries. Given the aim of GTS I personally see this as a must.
• Flag rules and penalties based on how motorsport actually works, including DQ's for the worst offences.
  
• UDP output. The ability to run outside dashes, real time telemetry and spotters, while removing the HUD makes a big difference in my opinion.
• A massive improvement in tuning, all areas, but with a good tyre model then tyre pressures is a must
• A more realistic structured 'race day/weekend' with practice sessions, qualifying and races that mix it up a bit (sprint and main races, mandatory pit stops, etc)
• Races that actually start like races, not the majority being rolling starts that are not done correctly
• Damage that can actually result in a DNF.

In these regards GT has quite a bit of evolving to do, but most of it is either straightforward or should be on the road map already.

That would get a pre order from me!

 

[Nico_Ble99]

Interesting.

 

[RaY29rus]

Interesting.

Wow, Regera is coming to Driveclub

 

[Nico_Ble99]

Wow, Regera is coming to Driveclub

Lol Although, if the sounds was scanned specifically for DC, I think it would have said "We had some guys from Evolution Studios here earlier this week."

 

[Imari]

Wow, Regera is coming to Driveclub

Pretty much. There's a Sony first party driving game with two Koenigseggs in it and it isn't Gran Turismo.

 

[Ameer67]

Koenigsegg isn't the biggest deal for me personally but it would be pretty neat seeing one in GT one day.

 

[Nico_Ble99]

And on another note, somebody has posted a link in the comments referring to DC and sound capturing (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014...the-most-realistic-sounding-racing-game-ever/) where there is this quote:
"We used upwards of 16 mics in each car, and in some cases a lot more – 26, even 27 in one of them"

 

[fortbo]

I can't believe we've only had one trailer for this game.

 

[pikes_peak]

Well PD, just give us a maintenance announcement

More serious note, only two weeks till the start of Geneva Motor Show. Let's hope it's one of Jordan's pencilled calendar entries for 2016.

 

[Nico_Ble99]

Well PD, just give us a maintenance announcement

More serious note, only two weeks till the start of Geneva Motor Show. Let's hope it's one of Jordan's pencilled calendar entries for 2016.

@Jordan

 

[05XR8]

Interesting.
View attachment 516019
View attachment 516020

And on another note, somebody has posted a link in the comments referring to DC and sound capturing (http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014...the-most-realistic-sounding-racing-game-ever/) where there is this quote:
"We used upwards of 16 mics in each car, and in some cases a lot more – 26, even 27 in one of them"

14 mics as opposed to 16-27? Yep, seems like it's GTS bound.

 

[queleuleu]

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a783955/self-driving-cars-being-made-with-gran-turismos-help/
Bla-bla-bla that's great for them, I just want my simple game. I don't know if it's just PR things.

 

[cutmeamango]

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a783955/self-driving-cars-being-made-with-gran-turismos-help/
Bla-bla-bla that's great for them, I just want my simple game. I don't know if it's just PR things.

For some reason the link is a dead end for me [Working now] but here's the IGN article.
http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/02/...lf-driving-cars-will-arrive-in-next-few-years

 

[ron86]

14 mics as opposed to 16-27? Yep, seems like it's GTS bound.

Those 16-27 microphones doent seem to be that effective when i listen to the unspectacular sounds in Driveclub...

 

[GTPorsche]

Those 16-27 microphones doent seem to be that effective when i listen to the unspectacular sounds in Driveclub...

You're either trolling or you have bad speakers.

 

[ron86]

You're either trolling or you have bad speakers.

I use a good enough 5.1 Onkyo System to be able to transfer good engine sounds. And i am not trolling too.

Just listen to that Koenigsegg Agera video - yes, you can hear that they use the samples of an real Agera but it definitly lacks many things to sound as great as an real Agera does (At least in Youtube Videos, never heard one).

I have Driveclub at home and play it here and there, heard that it has great sounds before i bought it and was everything but impressed as i got it. Sounds rather dull?!

 

[TS050]

I use a good enough 5.1 Onkyo System to be able to transfer good engine sounds. And i am not trolling too.

Just listen to that Koenigsegg Agera video - yes, you can hear that they use the samples of an real Agera but it definitly lacks many things to sound as great as an real Agera does (At least in Youtube Videos, never heard one).

I have Driveclub at home and play it here and there, heard that it has great sounds before i bought it and was everything but impressed as i got it. Sounds rather dull?!

You were everything but impressed, despite the fact Driveclub has (arguably) the best sounds out of all the games in racing genre?

 

[ron86]

You were everything but impressed, despite the fact Driveclub has (arguably) the best sounds out of all the games in racing genre?

Well, at least not for my ears.

But i have to say that i havent played it at a very loud leve yet (because i have an 20 month old baby son ) and maybe thats the cause of the unimpressednes (...)

 

[TS050]

Well, at least not for my ears.

Well, damn, you must be one of the only people who thinks DC has crappy sounds.