GT Mobile pictures (big update from reply #191)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo PSP' started by Fruitcake, Jun 2, 2009.

  1. Devedander

    Devedander

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    The logic that it's not that bad because it happens elsewhere is essentially saying it's only wrong if you are the first person to do it... that's not a very good argument.


    If you look at pretty much every unfair, unethical or unreasonable facet of life today that we have to deal with it probably started with this set of actions:

    Someone does it and protests arise. Some people defend it as being "not that bad" and site other previous aggreigious actions as something "you already deal with so you can't deal with this"?

    Arguments come out this will be come the status quo and that will suck. Defense arises that that is rediculous and you should be smarter anyway (oddly oxymoronic logic).

    Then more people start doing it, it does become the status quo, more protests arise and more defense comes along "this is how everyone does it, stop whining".

    Move on to next aggregious event ad naseum.

    I personally do not agree with the logic that because it's common makes it more acceptable... I don't care if everyone else on your block beats their kids, it's not going to make me any lesss unhappy that you do.

    Same here. We know bullshots exist and we know this isn't the only case. But while your argument is that bullshots is a common term and thus somehow legitimizes them and I guess makes them ok; my standpoint is that when something wrong and unethical gets so common it coins a term, that's a sign that things are getting really bad.

    I mean come on, cell phone commercials at least say that the screen is simulated when what they are showing really is what you will see on the screen, it would just be very hard to get a good shot of it for the commercial.

    When did we go from "you must disclose the truth" to "disclaimers aren't necessary, you should just assume everything is fake unless it's labled that it's not fake". Is that really what's considered acceptable now?
     
  2. Devedander

    Devedander

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    It may be, but if it is, it's not even accurately represented. The PSP cannot crank out video of that resolution at that clarity. Hardware limitation.
     
  3. FoolKiller

    FoolKiller Premium

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    Don't get me wrong. I don't like bullshots, but I am not going to stand here and act like PD is suddenly absolutely horrible and unethical and get all up in arms about it when it is how the advertising business works. I also won't suddenly be shocked that PD did this when I have been playing Gran Turismo games since GT1. I know better.

    I also understand how a free market works. If you don't like it, don't buy it. That is the only way you can make your voice heard in a way that will matter to them.

    If you find this to be some form of illegal false advertising report it. The Federal Trade Commission handles those things in the US. But what you may find difficult is getting them to agree with you, as there are also many pictures of in-game footage.


    And then of course, there is always the fact that until the game is in your hands you cannot, without any doubt, say that there is no functionality where this will be possible. As many have said, this could very well be a PS3/PSP cross functionality feature that will allow you to run your replays through GT5.


    Of course, this could also just be something as simple as HD upgraded images for the fans because PD knows that we love GT wallpapers and themes on our PS3s and PSPs.
     
  4. Devedander

    Devedander

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    I am not running off the FTC either, I am just trying to elighten those denying or defending these as bullshots...

    As for PS3 tie in, please see the screenshot above where I show the official GT page with these screenshots pasted right onto PSP screens.

    These may exist somewhere, but as shown are certainly not coming from anything less than a PS3. They are labled everywhere as GTM and as long as we are all on the same page that these are not what you will be seeing on your PSP... that's all I am trying to get at.
     
  5. Jay

    Jay Premium

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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  6. Peter

    Peter (Banned)

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    The others are real game pics, but edited to look much better, but that's definitely not real at all.
     
  7. Devedander

    Devedander

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    From the news page right here:

    Doesn't get more blatent than that:

    PD released? Check

    Screenshots? Check

    Showing off the games 3D model (while talking about GTM)? Check

    Beyond bullshot... blatent lying now.
     
  8. Devedander

    Devedander

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    Real game pics from what game? Not GTM... GTP or GT5 maybe... not GTM.

    And I don't get why people keep thinking these are all different sources somehow like some are game shots and some are some other kind of render. There is nothing that I can see that suggests they come from different sources... the cars are just obviously in different environments but appear rendered with the same engine and of about the same poly count with the same effects applied.
     
  9. FoolKiller

    FoolKiller Premium

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    I think people are talking about the ones that are obviously not doctored from previous releases, not these newer ZR1 shots, or saying that these may be images from GT PSP, but doctored to look like Prologue.
     
  10. Devedander

    Devedander

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    Well on the news page from the last batch one comment was:

    Then there is this recent post in this thread:

    Now the earlier real game pics (that look like PSP screens) don't look like they were edited to look better at all let alone much better... so not sure what he would be talking about other than trying to say some of these bullshots look believable while other don't... it sounds very much like he thinks the last round of shots, showing cars racing are legit but these recent redners are not.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  11. FoolKiller

    FoolKiller Premium

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    I wasn't aware you were referencing those.



    He is saying that some of the shots, like on PSP screens or showing racing, could be taken from the game and then doctored while this latest one posted here looks to be an obvious render. And while you have gotten so skeptical to doubt any of these recent images could even be related to the PSP, not everyone thinks it is so far fetched that they are the result of a PSP image that has been doctored for a week. Whether they are wrong or right does not play into whether they may think it possible.

    Personally, I am guessing that any of these ZR1 shots related to the recent anouncement of the cover art are all renders used for the B&W trailer and cover art.
     
  12. Devedander

    Devedander

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    Well I guess the poster would have to chime in to know what he was thinking, but again, the obvious PSP screens don't look like they have been doctored at all... so the comment doesn't really fit.


    I don't mean this in an insulting way, but anyone who thinks these are doctors PSP pictures either doesn't know enough about how games are rendered to understand how difficult that would be or are willing to accept pretty much an entire redraw as an original.

    This isn't like wiping a smudge off the mona lisa or airbrushing a mole of a supermodel... these are more akin to just painting a whole new picture over the previous picture of the same subject. I mean the basic list is:

    All backgrounds must be replaced. The PSP backgrounds are not that complex and with the exception of the crowd the backgrouds use higher level textures and more polys than the PSP could handle. The trees alone are beyond what the PSP could handle. So step one: Basically erase all backgrounds and replace them with different backgrounds.

    Step 2: The car models exceed the poly level of PSP but many fold. As I said before the wheels alone with the detailed 3d rims are probably more than the entire car on the PSP in terms of poly count. So step 2: Erase the car, replace it with a render from a completely differnet model. Note this is not just a higher resolution render of the PSP car, it's a whole different model. If you take a low poly model and render it at higher resolution, you don't get a sleek sexy curvy result, you get glaring corners and flat areas that should be curved. Higher resolution brings out the flaws in a low poly model, doesn't make them better. Wheels that looked blurry but kind of round before now look like octagons... a smooth curved hood now looks like 8 pieces of sheet metal welded together in a rough curve...

    Step 3: Effects - Motion blur... this is believeable to add in with a post process 2d filter rather than actually figure motion on 3d objects. Reflections? PSP does not do real time environmental reflections, so take the environment image, add transparency and draw it over your car render. Now add lighting and shadow detail.

    Basically... these are so "retouched" that the original has no bearing on it anymore. Literally if you somehow massaged a PSP screen to look this good, you could literally erase the original content and the picture would look the same as it would be 100% covered by the "retouch".

    It's not a retouch or a prettied up, it's a complete different thing.

    It would be like saying I took this picture

    [​IMG]

    Touched it up a bit and got this picture

    [​IMG]

    They are the same right? They are both women, they both have two eyes, two arms and clothes on... I mean if someone put that second picture on a dating site, it would be ok that they really look like the first picture right?

    That's about as much similarity as these screenshots have with what you will see on the PSP: They both have cars, probably the same makes and models, and you will be driving on roads with buildings and trees around.

    Aside from subject these pictures are not representative of what will be in the PSP game (outside of maybe just pictures as an art collection).

    These DEFINITELY could be the models rendered to do the cover art. That is entirely believeable... rendered on a computer somewhere and the final image used as cover art for the box.

    BUT that has nothing to do with what you see on the PSP screen and again, the GT site has it shown right on the PSP screen itself. Also on the news page right here it says that these are renders of the model used in the game... I want to know where in ths PSP game this model is used... the only place even remotely possible is maybe in making some 2d jpegs to add on as an art collection or something.

    I am not skeptical... I just know better.

    Skeptical is a new drug that lets you loose weight without excercise.

    Know better is I can turn iron into gold by twitching my nose.

    All I am saying is there is no excuse, no rationalization, no fuzzy logic that lets you get from these being shown plastered on PSP screens on the official GT site, and from these being released by PD to show of the model used in the game all the way to an honest representation of something. ANYTHING is possible... heck maybe PD will pack in some kind of crazy hardware upgrade in the box with GTM that puts PSP on processing par with the PS3 and they will include a hi def screen relpacement and then you really will actually see races exactly like this on your PSP! It's POSSIBLE!

    But I think we can all agree there is a point you have to draw the line of reasonable... and this side of reasonable, there is no explanation for what the obvious understanding by the common person of these images is - that this is what the game will look like while playing. The comments and responses empiracly show that is a common belief.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  13. MarcoM

    MarcoM

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    the extreme over analyzing continues. The screenshots are being analyzed to death. Stop it. No use. GTM will be one of the best looking en playing psp games ever. We know it all.
     
  14. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake

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  15. Devedander

    Devedander

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    I would like to take a momen to analyze your comment...
     
  16. dancardesigner

    dancardesigner (Banned)

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    BULLSHOT, i mean gt5p doesn't even look that good, at least in the wheel area and general anti aliasing. If this is even remotely close to the quality of GT mobile then GT5 or at least prologue should be looking a hell of a lot better than it does. I mean come on, PS3 is like basically 30x more powerful than PS2 which is similar to PSP. I know it's much lower resolution screen but GT mobile screens have been putting GT5p to shame imo, considering the inferior hardware capabilities. I know some smart a** will try and use the excuse well how can you improve on photrealism, but the fact is gt5p is not photorealistic, plenty of areas can be improved and that includes the car models, even though they put the environment to shame. Lol i bet PSP would struggle to render that image alone with nothing else going on. I must say though that engine decal looks crap, it's fine for PSP but if the GT5 version isn't a 3d model of that bit, then that's a shame cos even on the trailer i noticed that it really degrades the quality of the models.

    Edit: WTH, looking back at the first page of ingame screens, what on earth were PD thinking to publish this as a PSP screen. I bet it's a GT5 asset, or just a showcase of how well they have modelled the ZR1, i bet it has nothing to do with PSP graphics apart from the front box art. This has me wondering about the GT5 trailer as well, i bet that was bull marketing crap aswell. But hey it's not to be unexpected, we all keep getting dragged into this crap with every game that's released, crysis was the exact same. I guess the proof will be in the pudding as it were but i aint getting my hopes too high.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  17. Northstar

    Northstar Premium

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    1) You are obviously new here as you still don't realize we over analyze everything.

    2) Nobody is saying it will look bad, we are just saying it won't look as good as what they are showing.

    Sadly the claim that these are screenshots of GT:M make T10 look like saints, at least they show screenshots of the actual game.
     
  18. UnoMOTO

    UnoMOTO Premium

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    I thought PD had a pretty good history of watermarking any shots that they "offically" released. Why are these void of any evidence of origin?
     
  19. G.T.Ace

    G.T.Ace

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    They were released from Sony for the press, listed as GT PSP pics together with the boxart, i can confirm that "officially".
     
  20. MarcoM

    MarcoM

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    I just think it is waste of time to overanalyze these obviously bullshots. But hey, maybe it's also komkommertijd outside the Netherlands.

    (Komkommertijd translates to cucumber time. In Holland it is used for indicating the time during summer when there is not much really important news to talk about.)

    Maybe my reaction was initiated by the fact that a lot of people outside the GTMobile forum only react badly when GT Mobile news is announced. Many people want GT5 to arrive. Me too. But I also am very much in anticipation of GTM.

    Hoping for more real GTM screenshots soon :)

    New is a relative. You sound as if new equals bad.

    I cannot see why people are afraid of T10. I mean let the X360 people enjoy their own racing games. Nothing wrong with that. We (GTPlanet junkies) all know that GT games are the real stuff.
     
  21. MajorZero

    MajorZero

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    That ZR-1 is from GT5. Check out the Z06 from GT5P official site. Same rendering, jaggies, wheels, modeled interior. Maybe they can't promote GT5 know but they adveristing it by GTPSP.

    Only fools (sorry) believe that screens are from GTPSP and I think PD knows it. Everyone know that PSP can't do this.
     
  22. Jay

    Jay Premium

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    I never said we were :)
     
  23. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake

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    I know, you're just the messenger ;)
     
  24. paskowitz

    paskowitz

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    Veyron
    [​IMG]

    Enzo Ferrari
    [​IMG]

    Citroen GT
    [​IMG]

    Nissan GTR Spec-V
    [​IMG]

    Lamborghini Countach LP400 '74
    [​IMG]
     
  25. G.T.Ace

    G.T.Ace

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    At least these look like high res PSP models. :lol:
     
  26. jonjwlee

    jonjwlee

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    First of all, those Corvette ZR1 screenshots are 100% PS3/GT5 - PD really can't mask it up any other way. But the rest of the screenshots are not that far off.

    Look at this pic:
    [​IMG]

    Yes, the image looks too good to be on a PSP, but surely, if they really wanted to produce a screenshot with no relation to the actual mobile game, wouldn't they use better models/textures? Those cars and tracks (look at those pillars holding up the railway tracks!) are definitely from the GT4 era, not something fresh from a PS3 (like the Corvette). Okay, so the 3D wheels are a bit too much, but everything else seems relatively, ahem, 'low quality'.

    And if you actually took the jaggies out of the early E3 shots (caused surely by outputting directly from an actual PSP), the graphics aren't actually too bad.

    So no, these screenshots aren't created from PSP machinery. The cars and tracks were likely rendered with a PS3, replacing lighting, shadows, reflections and wheel models with those from the GT5 engine and given some motion blur. Which is kinda pushing it as far as 'PSP' screenshots go, but they're not exactly 'bullshots'.
     
  27. Tomaz

    Tomaz (Banned)

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2009
  28. Devedander

    Devedander

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    I beg to differ... they are pretty much exactly bullshots...

    I mean if they aren't what is a bullshot? The models are too high poly to be PSP models (the wheels are obviously and while some body parts aren't as high poly as GT5 is likely to be, the curves are way to smooth to be PSP models), the rednering engine is not what the PSP will render, the effects are not what the PSP will do in terms of effects... at the very least it is WAY more stuff that is NOT from a PSP than stuff that IS from a PSP.

    I mean we all agree that pre rendered FMV is a bullshot right? Well what is that? It's a higher quality rendernig engine, with more and higher quality effects, rendering a different and higher quality model than what is actually in the game.

    Ummm... that's exactly what's going on here... I mean to get LESS GTPSP you would have to render a tricycle in a kiddie pool or something as really the only tie to GTPSP in these shots is the content (ie the type of car and the type of surroundings).

    Again look at my pictures of the girls above, one is the same as the other right? They aren't bullshots... the prettier one is just the ugly one but with new flesh, new skin, new eyes, new hair, new figure, new teeth, new musculature in better looking clothes with better lighting in a nicer environement... it's the same thing, not a bullshot...

    Come on...

    I mean yes you could go FURTHER and make an even LESS honest bullshot raytracing some super high polygon model on an ILM super computer rendering farm or something, but as far as being a bullshot, these are absolutely bullshots.

    Now as for why they didn't make a higher quality bullshot if they were going to bullshot anyway, who knows? Maybe they didn't use actual GT5 shots because they don't want uneducated people comparing GT5 screenshots with alleged GTPSP screenshots and saying "that's all GT5 can do? Not impressed!" Maybe they just don't want anyone to see how stunning GT5 really is until right up at release date, maybe they want the impact to be huge (I mean if you saw the same quality pictures 6 months earlier, it would steal some of the thunder of the release pictures - in short they don't want to take the wind out of their own sails) maybe they just hammered out a quick render on some existing engine and went with it as a quick and dirty... who knows... it's like saying "If Barry Bonds was going to take steroids, why woulnd't he take all the steroids out there in stead of just one kind?" Who knows, doesn't change what is though...
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
  29. Strittan

    Strittan Premium

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    I don't get why that ZR1 is considered a PSP screen. It's obvious it has the same level of detail as GT5, and the background looks the same as GT5P's showroom.
     
  30. FLASH48

    FLASH48

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    Does anyone know what track, the cars are on?