GT Series could learn from Forza

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What they could learn?

Every HUD element is independent and can be turned on and off in single and multiplayer (splitscreen)
Every car available in arcade mode and full access to your garage
The AI (not the Xbone drivatards)
Put the lap time on the side of the screen instead of the middle, and both game should remove the hundredths and thousandths from the counter
More events, lots more
Livery editor
How to make a car thumbnail in less than 10 seconds
How to save a game in less than 10 seconds
I don't need an exact perfect replica of a car to enjoy it and future proofing is a recipe for disaster
I don't need an exact perfect replica of a track to enjoy it, although Forza is too far off
Don't re-do the whole graphical and game engine on subsequent release on the same system unless it's literally broken or those programmers wouldn't have anything else to do otherwise

And a proper HOOD VIEW!
I actually like timer location as when my league sets a qualifying lap I can easily see while driving what I'm doing in which sector. What does annoy me is the game save as you mentioned.

Mainly 2 things

1. SOUNDS
2. Cars that are relevant and popular everywhere not just in Japan.

This stereotypical thinking will get us no where, but there are many others on the forums willing to contribute other thoughts and ideas as to how things should be improved, and not just donned upon. Although you are right that they are pretty poor in comparison to other games of GT's age, what I want to hear and see is more information. I've never heard of a company so quiet and secretive as PD, which is what I think what kills them. I mean, c'mon, we aren't even on the GT6 forums.. (That's if they even have them)



You mean... ;)

Anyway, I really dig threads like this, especially when they're mostly flamebait free. While I'd include a few tidbits from the latest crop of PC sims, and most of the previous post's suggestions are worthy, I'll focus on a few things.

Physics. While I love GT6's physics and car dynamics, there is a certain quality in Forza 4 that is only rivaled by Live For Speed. Can't comment on iRenting as I haven't tried it yet, but I've seen car behavior in F4 that I haven't seen on much lauded PC sims. It's not perfect, but they did something right. And the tire sounds are spectacular, though I could live without the distorted Borla samples on every stock car.

Modifications. Oh yes, Forza is deep. Being able to bump a car's performance by selecting grades of electronics, fuel system and plugs, who wouldn't want to tinker with that if you could? Rim size as well as width for tires. Engine and drivetrain swaps... sure, why not? The selection of aero parts could be better, but it's far better than what we have in GT6 right now, though an update could change that completely. The mod system in Forza is essentially a Race Mod for every car. Which brings me to...

Livery Editor. Haters, get over it. Every pro racer gets to define his car with a custom livery, and to me, this is the one thing that puts Forza in the "gotta have it" category. I spent more time in Forza making race cars than I did racing, and that's not a bad thing. If you really can't stand to see cool custom liveries, just select Hide Custom Liveries in your online options, and you'll never have to see an awesome ride ever. I REALLY MISS this capability in Gran Turismo, and hope we get it and possibly Race Mod back in one of these updates, though GT6 goes very far in that direction with its own customizations. And when we get a substantial online update, custom liveries aren't necessarily going to be essential, but will be darn close to it. I have a post I really should complete on this topic.

Leaderboards. 'Nuff said.

And I would like to incorporate almost every car from Forza 4 in GT6's car list, along with all the classic cars from all previous Gran Turismos, but that's another story. But between the two series, give me Gran Turismo's car list any day. And by the way, the bots in Forza are reckless tards.

I honestly don't see why there are so many people who choose to bash the livery editor rather than to take it in. Me, I would love to have it. It would be great for some of the online leagues to design their real life counterparts, and the ability to express what they like in life. Saying "we don't want a bunch of flying di*dos around us" is a pathetic excuse.

Everyone learns sometimes :D Livery editor is not included simply because of resources . Adding custom liveries on top of car rendering is additional taxing on engine. I'd rather have some day/night transitions etc... than tons of "hello kitty" , "redbull" , "monster energy" supercars online :D Maybe PD could do some basic racing cars as they are and offers different liveries for them . Anyway , well have to wait till GT7 for that.

Anyways, race mods that were brought up.
I'm not sure if PD should spend the time making that all over again, or spend time with a livery editor allowing all parts added from the mod to the editor. That way I can add (or take away) racing cockpits in a normal prudctio. Car to take out weight rather than to just do a multiple amount of upgrades worth only for a re skinned seat.


Livery's & Editor.
Yes please. Possible to do, but I think there were some other issues regarding that. I don't think Kaz wants certain things in his game.
Manufacturer Races Remember Carvalho Ferrari challenge ?.
In career mode, there is none really. Would be great if there were. But in GT5, there was manufacturer races in the seasonal events.
The Sound of the cars.
Working on it. Some of them are good, but overall, improvement is welcome. The Red Bulls sound great.
DLC packs worth buying Porsche pack for example. (Forza maybe had too many)
Porsche... there is EA on the way. I remember reading that there is possibility that Porsches might make it into GT6 in the future. Or we might just have to wait for GT7. But don't forget, we will be getting bunch of concept cars that you will only be able to drive in GT6.

Dev's racing and talking to the community and rewarding players with rare cars and even DLC for beating them or just driving with them and for even watching one of them create a custom livery.
You know... Kaz has been making real race drivers out of his player base among many other things. Forza could learn from Gran Turismo in this area. GT academy, First love campaign, Red Bull X, Vision Gran Turismo...

Manufactures racing. Yes. I also wish one day we will see it fit that cars which raced against one another race against again. I hate having to race with a jaguar from 66 or whenever, a TS020, a 908, with a BMW 2002 turbo thrown in as well, while I'm in my R8 LMS . A better class leveling system is sincerely needed...
Another thing you mentioned is communication... Having to rely solely on GTPLANET while they prod PD up their 🤬 to get the tiniest bits of info out is ridiculous. The GT 5 news section hardly ever was used except for info regarding maintenance times and updates. And the occasional GT TV ad. We definitely need to get them on some sort of level ground with the consumers as to what in the hell goes on in PD's labs...
 
I agree with the class leveling. They have the ability to do that but they don't implement it for spot races/arcade mode.
So in essence I'd like to be able to customize more my opponents so that they make more sense to be on the track the same time.

I also would like to see AI cars upgraded as well. I like that in Forza I can race cars with maxed out PI leaving up to me to find a suitable vehicle and upgrade it to how I think would yield the best result. This is lacking in GT and I'd like for it to be in there.
 
I think GT could learn from the cars Forza picks to include. I still really like the oddball cars GT adds but I'd like them to have a bigger mix. I think more visual customization would do GT good but not to the extent that Forza has it.
 
Aside from all the things already mentioned; i liked the auction house a lot in FM4.
Just being able to auction or sell your cars to other people online was very nice. In the end it turned out very addictive as i was scrolling through the cars seeing if i could find bargains, and then sold them onwards with a profit.

Used car dealer i was in FM4 and it made me rich :cool:

Also the career mode was great; you feel like racing an old muscle car? The event changed to a muscle car race. Wanna drive a LMP1 hup the LMP1 event on that same track.
That way it was very diverse as you could always make your particular grids.

The events themselves were a lot more appealing also; Porsche 959 vs Ferrari F40 events, Old classic british sportscar events etcetera...
 
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And now Forza should learn from GT with increased payouts;)
Turn10 announced before PD that they will change the payouts and other stuff.
I don't agree with livery editor which is that extended because I don't want to see anime drift cars everywhere
The best thing with games is that they have options. You can easily deactivate liveries.
Hahahahaah! No they didn't! They went for the option that would make them the most money.. Release half of what they intend to at launch, and then charge us for the rest (that, let's be honest, is probably already developed and just sitting waiting to be released) in DLC. It's exactly what they did with FM4 and FH, and they've done it even worse here... less than 200 cars and 13 tracks is absolutely atrocious for a racing simulator. Whether it was for 'quality' or not, it's pathetic and damn right disgusting for a developer to be allowed to release only half of it's content.
GT3.
 
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Some really good points and no flaming :)

Both games are good in there own way and if some aspects were looked into i feel they could improve both party's.

Gameplay

I prefer GT for the feel of the game and realism and i also like FORZA for the pick up and play and you can do more than just race.

Communication and Feedback Turn 10 hit the nail on the head in regards to this.

I went onto a race night met a couple of the Dev's and got racing, After a while they asked how long i had been playing and i advised only a short time in FM4.

The next night to my surprise i was gifted a couple of the rare cars & DLC pack and put onto forza rewards beta,
also one of them asked me what i thought about the game and gave me feedback, later on that week i was also invited to watch one of them create a livery on twitch and gifted another rare car and DLC.

Im not saying PD should throw DLC at us but they could have race nights and talk to there community rather than the occasional news feed or details being passed on to sites.

Auction House / Livery Editor

Some like some don't however it would bring people on each night wheeling and dealing or just painting there cars


DLC

Being of the older generation of gamer's i hate DLC we used to make it and share it with the community for FREE !
However i do realise that the licences need to be paid for and the work involved is time and money consuming.

I would pay for packs but only if they were cars that were worth getting and tracks worth getting too
Forza went a little crazy with the packs and from what i have heard about FM5 they have gone too far.

Give me the race versions of Ferrari's,Porsche,Lambourghini, and more current / old race cars and ill buy them all
(Just no more GT-R & Skylines)
 
Aside from all the things already mentioned; i liked the auction house a lot in FM4.

...Also the career mode was great
Career Mode in Forza is interesting, because from game to game, it was such a moving target. Each game was a little different. I'm not a big fan of the branching "Choose your own career" in Forza 4, but it did allow you to pursue things that you liked and define preferences. And at any time, you could jump out and just select any race you were qualified for out of the entire list.

But there were two BIG things I completely forgot about, and one is mister dog's mention of the Auction House, and along with it, your very own Store front. Yes, you could load your Store with decals, national flags, tunes, liveries, cars, etc, and rake in a few credits, or even offer stuff for free. I bought a TON of decals from people when I didn't want to get bogged down making my own.

The other is Forza's damage build. In F4 it wasn't absolutely perfect, but it was very well done, both visual as well as mechanical. I'm curious as to what T10 have done with Forza on The One, as it's a beastly powerful machine.
 
lets-beat-that-horse.jpg
 
I agree with the class leveling. They have the ability to do that but they don't implement it for spot races/arcade mode.
So in essence I'd like to be able to customize more my opponents so that they make more sense to be on the track the same time.

I also would like to see AI cars upgraded as well. I like that in Forza I can race cars with maxed out PI leaving up to me to find a suitable vehicle and upgrade it to how I think would yield the best result. This is lacking in GT and I'd like for it to be in there.
Gt1 and 2 had this. Don't know why they don't implement it back in =/
 
While I agree that both series could learn a lot from each other, I think Forza 5 stands to learn the most from Forza 4... ;)
Not only that, but also go back to its roots of FM1 and FM2. FM5 has changed too much to the point I can't call it Forza anymore. Just add new ideas and stick with your old self, that's pretty much why I still love GT so much. Stick with the old and add some of the new, I miss old Forza and old Turn 10...
 
What GT could learn from Forza? Well graphics, nothing... Cars, we could have some of the more desired cars (F12, E30, P1, etc). Tracks, GT has a better line-up of tracks right now.. About the AI, the Forza 5 AI, for what I saw in one vídeo, is not that good, maybe due to the difficulty, but still ridiculous when you have na Audi TT RS that can keep up with Mclaren P1, Veyrons and a bunch of other hypercars, the driver of the Audi managed to get 3rd place in a race full of P1s... The sounds in Forza are definitely better, but still far from real since the cars have the same type of sound. The livery editor, it's a nice addition but nothing too complex, a simple livery editor would be enough (some stripes, two tone option for specific cars, sponsors, etc) nothing like hello kittys and stuff like that.
Because absolutely nothing like that hasn't been present in past GTs, right?
 
I don't want a livery editor in GT. Everyone driving pink Hello Kitty Ferrari's is not appealing to me.
Then there should be an option to turn them off. Not wanting a livery editor just because someone has a different taste than you is stupid. I don't give a hoot about what people do to their cars.

Regardless, why is it that PD tries to pass off these Base Model cars as "increased player customization". These cars just don't look real in a regular line up offline in my opinion.

However it's been 2 weeks and I'm already getting bored of this game. I can't do online racing because I'm the worst driver ever and because I don't want to sign up for an event that I can't guarantee to go to. The oddball cars like Mario's Hudson are nice but for like 15 minutes and then they're put in the garage never to be driven again and it all comes down to their use ability. You can take pics of them, tune em, free run, and attempt to race some of them but that's it.

What I want is for PD to stop going for cars that have little use and start giving cars the community will actually use. Give them the E30, Premium Supra, or cars they've been asking for more than 5+ Years. Sure the R8 Gordini and BAT1 are historical masterpieces but useless in a game focused on racing.
 
The biggest lessons I can think of right now are to:

- Exploit the players efforts, in terms of having new content and variety for free. Examples are the livery and track editors, but there's so much more.
- Once again embrace the great national cars, tracks and overall part of the car culture that is popular worldwide. The PS3 generation GT games surprisingly have very little of that (beside the R35 GTRs).
- Have a wider car variety, again an oddball considering this is a lost aspect in the "premium" transition. FM4 DLC is fantastic in this regard; really can tell the devs are car nuts instead of only releasing must haves or of easy availability for scanning.
http://www.xboxplayers.com/forum/threads/forza-motorsport-4-dlc-and-unicorn-car-list.2862/
- And of course, acknowledging 2004 content is unacceptable in a PS4/Xbone game, despite criticism.
 
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Typical, weak argument against a livery editor. :rolleyes:

Weak why? I play a fighting game (Tekken Tag 2) that allows all kinds of ridiculous customization. The results are garish and consistently annoying. The game would be better off without it.

Similarly, I watched the first career race in Forza 5 and every car was covered in crap. I was instantly turned off.
 
Typical, weak argument against a livery editor. :rolleyes:
It's a valid point though. What the demands are here are exactly what makes Forza... well, Forza. Go buy Forza if you want a Auction House or a Livery Editor. It would be awful to see GT turn into a Forza clone. Is this too weak of a argument stand for you?

To be honest, i'd rather PD dig back and make a modernized system of exactly how GT2 was laid out. What can GT learn from Forza? Don't be Forza.
 
It's a valid point though. What the demands are here are exactly what makes Forza... well, Forza. Go buy Forza if you want a Auction House or a Livery Editor. It would be awful to see GT turn into a Forza clone. Is this too weak of a argument stand for you?

To be honest, i'd rather PD dig back and make a modernized system of exactly how GT2 was laid out. What can GT learn from Forza? Don't be Forza.
It's not even an argument.
 
Weak why? I play a fighting game (Tekken Tag 2) that allows all kinds of ridiculous customization. The results are garish and consistently annoying. The game would be better off without it.

Similarly, I watched the first career race in Forza 5 and every car was covered in crap. I was instantly turned off.
You can turn off the liveries.
To be honest, i'd rather PD dig back and make a modernized system of exactly how GT2 was laid out. What can GT learn from Forza? Don't be Forza.
Don't be a racing game?

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Will people defend the bad sound an AI in GT like this in the future? We don't want it, because PD shouldn't copy forza?
We are all racing an gaming fans and want to play the best games out there. In this industry are many talented people and they can inspire themselves to make better games. Why would any gamer want that they don't look at the competition and inspire themselves to improve their product?
 
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Weak why? I play a fighting game (Tekken Tag 2) that allows all kinds of ridiculous customization. The results are garish and consistently annoying. The game would be better off without it.

Similarly, I watched the first career race in Forza 5 and every car was covered in crap. I was instantly turned off.
There are so many creative GT6 players. Do you think that GT6 players are only comprised of people who put macabre designs on their cars? Because that's a very limited point of view.
It's a valid point though. What the demands are here are exactly what makes Forza... well, Forza. Go buy Forza if you want a Auction House or a Livery Editor. It would be awful to see GT turn into a Forza clone. Is this too weak of a argument stand for you?
No one is saying that GT should be a Forza clone. What people are saying is that there are good things from Forza that can be translated into Gran Turismo. Be it a livery editor, auction house, or a recipe for a good career mode. These are things that can make a game much better, and making a Forza clone is not going to be the only result.
 
It's a valid point though. What the demands are here are exactly what makes Forza... well, Forza. Go buy Forza if you want a Auction House or a Livery Editor. It would be awful to see GT turn into a Forza clone. Is this too weak of a argument stand for you?

To be honest, i'd rather PD dig back and make a modernized system of exactly how GT2 was laid out. What can GT learn from Forza? Don't be Forza.

It's already not a Forza clone as it's too busy being lodged somewhere in 1998.

I was already mildly fatigued with the game two days in, not even an entire week. Why? Because it is fundamentally the same exact game that GT5 was with modest improvements. Things such as astronomical simulation have absolutely no longstanding impact on the longevity of gameplay appeal; it's fantastic for those who are into photomode (such as myself and a great many others) and it's a fantastic novelty for all of 10 or 15 minutes but beyond that it does nothing to advance, improve or deepen the breadth of gameplay.
 
It would be awful to see GT turn into a Forza clone. Is this too weak of a argument stand for you?
How does having a Livery Editor make GT6 into a Forza clone? Forza is already a clone. Besides, so many other games have some sort of livery customization, and have already. Did they copy Forza before Forza even existed?

Just to reiterate, the reason I want a Livery Editor is because every pro race driver has their own custom livery in real life. Many other racing games give you this opportunity, and with Gran Turismo being structured in Kaz's words to make these cars your cars, this is the one thing lacking to take it to that ultimate level. To walk in the footsteps of people like Colin McRae, Ayrton Senna, and now Lucas Ordoñez and Nick McMillen, who get their own cars with their own liveries.

Please don't tell me what to do with my game. It isn't right. If you don't want your own liveries, don't have them. If you don't want to see them, turn them off in the options, and every game with custom liveries lets you do that. We're both happy. Problem solved.

And oh, heaven forbid we could sell or gift cars or tunes or whatever we made through a shop of our very own. What a terrible idea. ;)

I was already mildly fatigued with the game two days in, not even an entire week. Why? Because it is fundamentally the same exact game that GT5 was with modest improvements.
I can see that the upcoming Rewinds are going to be fun reads. :D
 
First off i am not trying to start a fan boy war or to say one is better than the other they are two different aproache's to a driving based game.

Having played both games from early versions there is some things in Forza that could really improve GT.

Livery's & Editor.

Manufacturer Races Remember Carvalho Ferrari challenge ?.

The Sound of the cars.

DLC packs worth buying Porsche pack for example. (Forza maybe had too many)

Dev's racing and talking to the community and rewarding players with rare cars and even DLC for beating them or just driving with them and for even watching one of them create a custom livery.
I think you got that last one a bit mixed up pal. Last time I remember, it was Gran Turismo that gave us Kazunori's GTR that he drove in the 24hrs at Nürbürgring. Does anyone from the Turn 10 actually race professionally? Or have special partnerships with professional race car drivers such as Mario Andretti, Ayrton Senna, Sebastian Vettel, or any other professional race car drivers from past installments of the series? Not trying to be rude or anything. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I think you got that last one a bit mixed up pal. Last time I remember, it was Gran Turismo that gave us Kazunori's GTR that he drove in the 24hrs at Nürbürgring. Does anyone from the Turn 10 actually race professionally? Or have special partnerships with professional race car drivers such as Mario Andretti, Ayrton Senna, Sebastian Vettel, or any other professional race car drivers from past installments of the series? Not trying to be rude or anything. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
No, he made a valid point that there is a lack of communication between PD and us consumers. They live a quite life not explaining a pinch of what actually is going on. Relying on leaked images to be able to see what is coming up is ridiculous.

You gave insight as PD giving away cars on a world wide basis. That is no different than free DLC. What we are talking about is being able to go into a room where we might come across a DEV and talk a one on one conversation. Regarding that they may speak only Japanese, but there are some who could possibly translate or whatever.

The fact of the matter is, it's a cold world on GT and no one knows what happens. You bring up T10 however, but what are they different from any other game out there right now? It is a logical point, as PD was the ones who reached out to the 30 plus manufactures and other design shops. And that is what really sets them apart. The first vision trailer had the words "From people who love cars" "For people who love cars" And that's what I think it is really about. If you are not passionate about something then what are you wasting your time on. Now of course, that's where communication needs to play in because 300+ devs will not buy 70 +million copies of something to say what they want, but rather us the community. There needs to be a direct link for us consumers and the producers.

every pro race driver has their own custom livery in real life.

now be that the car or their helmets, there needs to be the ability to express one's appeal for something.

For those who can not handle walking outside and seeing a green house next to a white house, or a blue car next to a silver car, be the bland one who wants nothing more from their lives other than fake processed everything. Because what you are saying is you would prefer everyone to be symmetrical with everything. And that isn't how life works my friend.

It's a valid point though. What the demands are here are exactly what makes Forza... well, Forza. Go buy Forza if you want a Auction House or a Livery Editor. It would be awful to see GT turn into a Forza clone. Is this too weak of a argument stand for you?

To be honest, i'd rather PD dig back and make a modernized system of exactly how GT2 was laid out. What can GT learn from Forza? Don't be Forza.

I hope you and others whom agree with you is that there are more than just one racing simulation game out there with the ability to customize a car. This exclusive battle is quite annoying for those who have the ability to think beyond that of just Forza or GT. It may be bringing in from lesser accomplished games, but do whatever it takes to be the best you can be. Do not just settle for something less of something better.
 
I think you got that last one a bit mixed up pal. Last time I remember, it was Gran Turismo that gave us Kazunori's GTR that he drove in the 24hrs at Nürbürgring. Does anyone from the Turn 10 actually race professionally?
Can you expand of how Kaz being a "pro" driver makes GT a better game and forza a worse game cause they have no pro driver on staff? Can you show me how GT has gained anything from Kaz being a "pro"?
tHanks...
 
I think you got that last one a bit mixed up pal. Last time I remember, it was Gran Turismo that gave us Kazunori's GTR that he drove in the 24hrs at Nürbürgring. Does anyone from the Turn 10 actually race professionally? Or have special partnerships with professional race car drivers such as Mario Andretti, Ayrton Senna, Sebastian Vettel, or any other professional race car drivers from past installments of the series? Not trying to be rude or anything. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

Forza have worked with professional drivers across the entire series, and true professional drivers (as in people who make a living from racing alone), Kaz is not a professional driver and would be better described as a 'gentleman racer'. That's not a dig by the way, but a far more accurate statement of his status as a driver.

Oh and GT6's partnership is with the Aryton Senna foundation, not with Aryton Senna (as that would be truly remarkable to manage).

However what was being talked about here is that the T10 dev team actually take part in on-line events and races with the community, gifting cars to those that participate. Its an area (community involvement) that regardless of opinion on the titles in question T10 manages far better than PD do at present.

As for not having a livery editor in GT, I see that all the same (rather weak in my opinion) arguments are coming out again. Sorry but liveries are an essential part of racing and for any strong on-line series a much needed addition. Be it recreating real world liveries that we don't have, to new ones of your own. Yes you may get the occasional tasteless one (just as you do in the real world to a degree), the vast majority are perfectly fine.

Hell, 30 seconds in the GT drift sub-forum will show that people are already capable of making cars that are far and away ugly enough without a livery editor, yet it seems some think that the following would be a bad idea to be able to create?

 
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