Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'GT6 Drifting' started by SmokedBump, May 15, 2013.
new gtp is weird on my phone and i was at work when i typed it so i didnt have time to look it over
I have to agree, could not tell you how long it takes to find the best person on a 900 degree wheel frantically searching the boards.
Can only wish that they would implement the same sort of reward system as GT PSP. Kinda wish I could get some credits for drifting at least... Even though people would probably exploit it in some way...as always. Quite enjoyed the seasonal event drift events and getting a reward for it. But it still doesn't feel as rewarding as GT PSP's system of doubling your total score during your session in credits.
In terms of mechanics, same as GT5.
In terms of the scene, I'd expect a lot more people wanting to learn and a lot more people in general. I reckon it will be just the same as GT5, but with more people except with more SlapTrain wannabes and more kids thinking they are tsuchiya.
You know what? That sounds like it'll be a lot of fun. More people to "bring back down to earth"
I expect massive skids
This is just wishful thinking but I'm fairly certain that it's possible.
Like you guys, I too am wishing for an organized, systematized, balanced, and hassle-free drift mode. There isn't much to drifting on GT5 tbh, it's just all about points farming. And organized drift events has to be supervised by an assigned official. For GT6, I want an instant drift tournament done through matchmaking and the ability to create proper drift events with the Online Event Builder or whatever it's called. I'm also expecting for Seasonal Events to stay in GT6, especially the drift leaderboards in this case.
I also want to propose a new points system. Rather than the old points system where all you have to do is gather as much points as you can, I'm thinking of adopting something based on D1GP 2013's judging methods. They are using the DOSS system after all, so a virtual counterpart would make sense.
For solo drift, you'll be graded by speed, angle, and line (using GRID's clipping point system should take care of this aspect). The layout gets divided into a number of parts (let's say 5). Each of these parts have their own clipping point, and for each part you'll be scored according to speed, angle and how close you are to the clipping point. The 5 scores will then be added up for your total score.
It's kinda hard to explain, but this video can explain things:
though it is in Japanese, I think you can still get the general idea of the system.
For tandem, each of the two drivers will be judged individually. However, proximity will also affect the scoring - I'm thinking of having three "areas" between the two cars. Between these two is some sort of safe zone that makes the proximity score even. Fall back from it and the leader gets extra points. On the other hand, being very close to the opponent will give the chaser bonus points.
Everything's done "manually" back then during the GT5 days, but if you think about it, creating a new game mode to systematize all of these isn't that hard, is it?
Also, if a room can accomodate 16 players, perhaps we can add a few extra slots, maybe 1 to 3 (or 4 if you're OCD and want it to be 20, lel). These "extra" players will be the official judges and if ever one of the competitors file a protest, these judges who will override the game's decisions accordingly. Of course, this works well for organized events.
PD can either study the DOSS system or use this formula I made on a whim: x+y+(100-z), where x = speed, y = angle in degrees, and z = distance of the car from the clipping point. So let's say that the layout has 3 parts,
part 1: 120 km/h, 30 degrees, 3 cm off clipping point = 120 + 30 + (97) = 247 pts
part 2: 90 km/h, 32 degrees, 1 cm off clipping point = 90 + 32 + (99) = 221 pts
part 3: 100 km/h, 35 degrees, 2 cm off clipping point = 100 + 35 + (98) = 233 pts
total points: 701 pts. We can stop there, or we can use the mean of all 3 parts, so 413/3 = 233.67 pts. I think we should use the mean instead of the total to level the playing field, and the clipping point should have a safe zone of some sort, maybe like +2/-2 cm.
Note that x+y+(100-z) is for the solo runs. For the tandem runs, the formula will be the same, though proximity will be taken in consideration instead of closeness to the clipping point. x+y+z, where x = speed, y = angle, and z = proximity score (given to the leader if the chaser falls away from the safe zone, given to the chaser if close enough to the leader). Here's a sample scenario:
1st run - car A leads, car B chases
part 1: 120 km/h, 30 degrees, proximity score of 1m = 120 + 30 + 1 = 151 pts
part 2: 90 km/h, 32 degrees, proximity score of 0m = 90 + 32 + 0 = 122 pts
part 3: 100 km/h, 35 degrees, proximity score of 2m = 100 + 35 + 2 = 137 pts
final score: 318.67
part 1: 116 km/h, 31 degrees, proximity score of 0 = 116 + 31 + 0 = 147 pts
part 2: 92 km/h, 33 degrees, proximity score of 0 = 92 + 33 + 0 = 125 pts
part 3: 101 km/h, 36 degrees, proximity score of 0 = 101 + 36 + 0 = 137 pts
final score: 317.67
advantage goes to the car A. we may consider it a tie if the difference is too small to warrant a definite advantage.
2nd run - car B leads, car A chases
part 1: 118 km/h, 40 degrees, proximity score of 0m = 118 + 40 + 0 = 158 pts
part 2: 93 km/h, 37 degrees, proximity score of 0m = 93 + 37 + 0 = 130 pts
part 3: 99 km/h, 32 degrees, proximity score of 0m = 99 + 32 + 0 = 131 pts
final score: 331.67
part 1: 114 km/h, 20 degrees, proximity score of 2m = 114 + 20 + 2 = 136 pts
part 2: 90 km/h, 27 degrees, proximity score of 4m = 90 + 27 + 4 = 121 pts
part 3: 93 km/h, 32 degrees, proximity score of 2m = 93 + 32 + 2 = 127 pts
final score: 293.33
car A wins. we can multiply the proximity score to make it a more decisive factor in scoring, though to find the right multiplier would take some trial and error.
What do you guys say?
EDIT: fixed calculations, added formula for tandem runs
It's a great idea but I don't think kaz cares enough about drifting to implement such a formula.
It's a shame, because the silly points system in GT5 was a joke.
I think it's possible with enough support from us players. If Kaz truly never cared enough for drifting in the first place, GT5 wouldn't even have such a game mode to begin with.
I have trust in PD. I'm sure they'll take note if we can bring the message across. After all, now that today's racing games like GRID and FM also featured drifting game modes, it's safe to say that drifting is also a crucial part of a videogame like GT.
Given the Gran Turismo Sun Screens on the windscreens of all the tasty japanese D1GP cars in recent times, I'm EXPECTING a D1GP DLC. I'll be genuinely p--'d off if we don't get one - like really crestfallen to the point where I might fly to Japan, go see Kaz and say, "OK, GTR's and Nurburgring, yeah I get that, but come on man, some of us might aspire to be competitive racers, but some of us just wanna have fun with our mates." It's not like we're just messing about playing bumper cars is it? I live in hope.
I expect the drift scene to be
"oh yeah brah nice JDM man siiiicccckkk"
yeah, we only have Nomuken's ER34. I want cars like Kumakubo's C33 and Taniguchi's HKS86.
No off set wheel option No engine swaps No drivetrain swaps No livery creator point systems probable still going to suck
hopefully the engines sonud and i could careless about driving clubs
Im not really expecting much to be honest. I know that PD are going to make a lot of promises of what they are going to include in the game but thr game will turn out to be disappointing like GT5 was.
I would like to have some touge races (narrow width layouts on the street) or downhill touge drift tracks. By downhill touge drift tracks, I mean the ones you would see in FM4. With the touge races, as an example, I mean more like the ones that they have in Best Motoring International with Keiichi Tsuchiya. Here's to hoping the "Course Maker" will have something like that. Kaz should know a lot of people like to drift in racing games (more so than they do drag racing) so I hope to expect to see something implemented to let us have drift oriented track layouts in the "Course Maker".
Man that is how it's done. Could someone forward this page to Taku Imasaki as I'm sure Kaz is a bit busy, and his twitter is loaded with enough requests. This is diamond-quality stuff compared to most of that coal. There has to be someone else at PD that we can communicate with on a more useful/helpful level.
I am not a big drifter- but would like to see the popularity of Gran Turismo make a tangible jump with such attention paid to the fastest growing motorsport on earth.
GTPlanet... **** yeah!
This will never happen. If it does, I really dislike it. 1: Speed should be judged as least important factor, not the most important one. 2: Proximity isn't hard. Slap on some Sport tires and being close is the easiest thing there is.
And Tsuiso runs definitely require a solid clipping point judging too, otherwise lead car can go off line a lot and chase car never gets a decent chance at following.
This is a good idea, but before you contact PD about it, work it out a LOT further/better imo.
I just made that formula on a whim lol, so yeah of course some refining needs to be done.. If I were to work with PD on this, I'd pretty much tell them to use the DOSS method of scoring instead. Though I don't think speed should be the least important factor- I'd try to revise all the formulas for something that won't give you much of a good score if you run slow despite having good angle.
This formula could add "grip" multipliers for tire choice, or the rules could be one tire type only. Besides, if the leader was drifting CH tires, and the follower was drifting with ANY sport compound, even CS, the grip would be much too high for the follower to maintain any decent angle or consistent proximity. Not to mention the high likelihood of collision.
There would still need to be a line scoring system, much like how Drift Mode works in GT5 now (I absolutely hate it, imho) but if the "best line" itself could be altered like a lobby setting, it might actually be somewhat useful in judging how well somebody can drift.
I will say 2 words. IDC > Formula D. Judging wise, rules wise... Everything. Formula D, like a lot of things in America, has been too commercialised and too much aiming for speed.
Yes, but the point I'm trying to make is that whatever you do with the scoring calculations... True skill will never come out of it. The most consistent drifting and the least amount of corrections... That's what people should be looking for. Good luck implementing that.
It's all just angle/speed/proximity in relation to a car/line/clipping point.
It can be done. There is a formula that would accurately judge how many corrections, how consistent somebody is. It all depends on the weights given to the formula and the formula itself. I'm sure a math-wizz could create one given enough time and thought.
Whether or not it will be done is another question.
I was under the assumption that the room has tire restrictions in place. Multipliers could work too if people use different compounds.
The way lining is scored can be done by measuring the distance from the clipping points. Which is why I pointed out GRID in the first place lol, that game give you bonus points for being near the red pole things
lol maybe you do have a point about speed being the least important factor because even 5 km/h isn't a huge difference IMO. though it probably is important for the solo runs.
consistency = skill, good point, but I think it's a different story for tandems. for me, skill in tandems = using the metagame to your advantage. which is why I made proximity a decisive factor in my scoring formulas. being able to "cut off" your opponent so that he'll fall back a little, WHILE maintaning good speed and angle is the ideal lead run for me.
and plus, the sections aren't really that long lol- notice that in the video, Ebisu Minami is divided into 6 small sections, with the straightaway being null. each section gives you like 10-20 points, then everything gets added up.
scoring in a nutshell
About the same, maybe slightly improved...
On the topic of consistency, if you really wanted to get down to the nitty-gritty tiny details, you could factor in steering consistency, acceleration, braking, shift count, but none of that seems too practical. The biggest problem with a formula is that it doesn't really judge the overall "look" of a run, which is the exact opposite of how we judge tandem runs in lobbies now (simply by the way the run looked).
VERY wishful thinking, but the main thing I want in GT6 (that is also the reason why I am getting Forza 5) is the ability to actually make the cars look like drift cars! Being able to have each rim be a different color or a completely different type of rim (Like what you could do in NFS Prostreet) and a somewhat livery editor. Also engine/drivetrain swaps. Just anything that lets us make our cars look like drift cars. Maybe the ability to remove front/back bumpers before entering a lobby/race.
I think the amount of options for drifting is fair for GT5, maybe add an option to be able to host drifting online sessions.
lol that would be too much. I don't think formulas don't judge the overall look of a run though, tell me why RaceLogic Driftboxes are used in D1 haha
if there's a need to judge a run by its looks, we can add at least one more slot to a room and reserve it for a judge- he will give additions/deductions to the score. Though I wouldn't recommend it for random matchmaking rooms.
Yeah, and that's why I am not a huge fan of letting Math do the work. Drifting should be about the 'what the ****' 'holy **** that was an amazing run' 'look at that angle! oh my god what a skill'... That's what drifting should be about imo
I definitely agree to an extent. It would take part of the soul out of drifting, however it would still serve as a good baseline to judge a run, like a play-by-play analysis.
Not sure if people missed this, but it's not been mentioned in the thread yet.
With a new tire model and some updated physics, I want to believe drifting will be better and more realistic. Other than that, I don't really know what to think here. I'm not a good drifter anyways. I was fortunate to even crack the 10K point mark early in playing GT5 for that Trophy.
Only thing I do wonder is how many people will try to spam up all those drift points with that TVR Cerbera Speed 12.