GTPFIA Touring Car World Cup Round 1 4/4/12

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I always thought negative toe was toe out. That;s how I always learned it...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_(automotive) Wikipedia agree with me, though you can;t always trust wiki, lol

It is, what I meant was the effect of toe out. On the real world when you're looking for sharper turn in you go with toe out in the front and toe in on the rear in very minimal icrements, 1/16ths of an inch at a time. On GT5 is the total opposite for everything!
 
I'm looking for the tune that allows the rear wheels on high power cars, to not spin at high rpm's. I have to baby any car that has over 450hp thru the turns, or the tires light up on me. I'm on the verge of ruducing my overall hp limits just so I can get on the gas earlier. I thought the initial torque setting was the fix, but I've max this setting out and still had wheel spin issues'

The other option is a low setting on yur Acc.Sentvty @ 5.With Initial Torq low @ 10 (If high numbers aren't working) This was my quik fix to similar problems & worked every time until i learned to run with higher LSD settings. Hope something helps.
 
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Jav
It is, what I meant was the effect of toe out. On the real world when you're looking for sharper turn in you go with toe out in the front and toe in on the rear in very minimal icrements, 1/16ths of an inch at a time. On GT5 is the total opposite for everything!

Hay, isn't that how the X1 in the game is set up. Let me check.
 
Yup , the X1 has a -50frnt + 50 rear standard set up. So Jav, do u think that PD isn't doing ther homework? What u got to say now buddy boy? lol
But I know what u mean, ive felt the opposite effects too.
 
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Tao
Yur right Joe, Initial Torq will do the job.Through trial & error I found that a 10 point difference between Initial Torq & Acceleration Sensitivity(example Int.Torq @ 40, Acc.Sent.@30) worked out 4me in my case with Camero.Braking Senstvty I'm still working on.But Torq. has to be higher then Acc.Sentvty.Just try different 10 point ratios.
You also could be maxed out on the cars capabilities & feathering yur car through tuns is what u have to do @ that Hp.Your choice to cut back yur hp may just do u a faster lap time (Are u talking about 1 particular car or every car u drive? not sure.)

Thankfully I'm only experiencing this issue with high horsepower applacations. I fill that I understand the accel & brake side very well. But when I joined the ICGTC Series (super-jgts) @ about 518hp I was having tire wear problems, so when I adjusted the initial torque setting to a higher setting it stop the tire wear indicator from going red hot as often, plus I could lay more power down too. So when I ran the LMP's I figured the more I turn it up the more i would be able to get back on the gas, but that didn't happen with the LMP's. So then I went to toe in the rears as much as 40pts but still this thing lights up as soon as I get to the good part of the rpm band, I'm sideways. I dont know how freshseth does it with a Ds3 but I will have to get to the bottom of it? I'll try ride height & rear spring ratios next. :nervous:

Also do you guys think aggressive rear camber helps the light up factor coming out of turns, or just aids more drift because of the scrubing effect high rear cambers due in real world touring car racing?
 
We'll joe i can pass on this to you. If your looking to save tires 1 other option is changing gears @ lower rpm consistently throughout a race.Real racers do it to save tires & so do are guys during GT1. Braking & weight distribution helps to.Camber can add to tire ware ,keep it low @ 1's.Thers less surface area for grip, may make problems worse.
Dont 4get the low LSD option i mentioned to.Like to know if it helped or anything else.
 
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Jav
It is, what I meant was the effect of toe out. On the real world when you're looking for sharper turn in you go with toe out in the front and toe in on the rear in very minimal icrements, 1/16ths of an inch at a time. On GT5 is the total opposite for everything!

They way i under stand it is the opposite, positive toe up front and negative in the rear will make it turn better. As weight shifts to the outside tire, positive front will have an effect of the tire turned more, and the rear will steer out rotating the rear.
 
Tao
We'll joe i can pass on this to you. If your looking to save tires 1 other option is changing gears @ lower rpm consistently throughout a race.Real racers do it to save tires & so do are guys during GT1. Braking & weight distribution helps to.Camber can add to tire ware ,keep it low @ 1's.Thers less surface area for grip, may make problems worse.
Dont 4get the low LSD option i mentioned to.Like to know if it helped or anything else.

Yea, my usual LSD setups are like this

Initial Torque: I used to run 5 (burning rubber often), but now I'm around 10 at the lowest to 25 at the highest. At this setting I have increased my tire wear by the tires not lighting up as much with each higher value

Accel Side: Of course 5-6 is peg legged inner wheel, but In my case anything over a setting of 12 makes my outside wheel pull me into a drift except cars with lower hp numbers. I can run a higher accel setting with 300hp or less cars. I usually set this somewhere between 8 - 11 depending on car.

Brake Side: I usually run 15 - 20, unless we are talking about the ACR Viper! In that car 5 is not even enough to get that thing to turn in, lol'
 
They way i under stand it is the opposite, positive toe up front and negative in the rear will make it turn better. As weight shifts to the outside tire, positive front will have an effect of the tire turned more, and the rear will steer out rotating the rear.

Exactly, toe out=possitive toe. That works on the real world, in GT5 is the opposite effect.

Wait! No! Now you got me all confussed!! I've never called it possitive or negative before GT5... Toe out up front, toe in out back. That's the way it works on the real world.
 
Positive toe is inward (toe in), negative toe is out.

Toe out on the rear will help induce oversteer. On the front, not sure. I add a touch of toe in to add stability in braking and assume it makes turn in sharper due to the outside tire facing more in the direction I'm turning, could be wrong though.
 
Positive toe is inward (toe in), negative toe is out.

Toe out on the rear will help induce oversteer. On the front, not sure. I add a touch of toe in to add stability in braking and assume it makes turn in sharper due to the outside tire facing more in the direction I'm turning, could be wrong though.

Good train of thought, but i think you are mistaken with the toe-in = better turn-in premise. This is assuming the inside front wheel is off the ground, however since racecars want to limit weight transfer and roll, the inside tire remains planted on the tarmac and has plenty of weight remaining on it.

A better view of front toe is to look at the plane the centerline of the tires makes perpendicular to the road. So when viewed from above, this plane becomes a line. On a car with toe-in, the lines from the left and right tires would intersect in front of the car because the tires are pointing inward to each other (..//....\\..) This inward facing brings the car to attempt to move each side of the car in toward itself. Likewise, if there is a small steering input (due to bumpsteer or wheel input) the outside tire will move in that direction, but the inside tire will still be trying to move the center of mass inward or maintaining direction (..||....\\..). This geometric property is what give the car stability with toe-in. Since the wheel on the inside follows a sharper radius than the wheel on the outside, it needs to be turned more into the corner than that of the outer wheel. This causes a small amount of scrub which will prevent the car from turning as much. (We are talking fractions of degrees here, not much). It is only when steering the inside tire past its straight position and into the turn, do we get any actual turn-in.

On a car with toe-out, the lines at the centerlines of the tires would intersect behind the car because the tires are pointing outward away from each other (..\\....//..). This is a much more unstable side of toe, and that is why you will only see toe-out in racecars, and not in passenger vehicles. The idea behind toe out causing straight-line instability is actually false, in theory. Any toe will create a more stable environment than no toe because doing so will create opposite forces being applied on the car and will prevent chatter from forming due to tracking of the tires. However, that is only in theory. In practice, we find that toe-out causes some straight line instability whereas toe in does not. We already saw why toe in would be beneficial since you need an amount of steering to get the car to turn. In toe-out situations, that is not always necessary. This is due to the phenomenon of bump steer. An uneven track surface will cause compression in one side of the suspension and not the other. The compressing of the shock will usually cause that side to create a toe-in sensation. This means that both wheels are now turning the same direction, or at least closer to it. You can see how this would disrupt you on the straight. Luckily, if you have toe-in in the rear, which has more of an effect on the car, it will counteract that and give you some stability.

Now let's look at toe-out approaching a corner. Once you begin to even think about steering, the car enters the corner. That is because once you turn the wheel a fraction of a turn, the tires begin to follow their arc around the corner. Since, as we learned before, the outside tire follows a wider arc around the corner, once we turn the wheel a bit, the inside tire turns but the outside tire straightens out (..\\....||..). You can see that if we had a sufficiently wide car, we would actually be following the perfect path around a corner with much less steering input and scrub as compared to the toe-in version. The geometry used to design ackerman steering is the same as with toe-out. This is why it causes quicker turn in.



I think too much, lol
 
Indeed, you do. Good information though Veloci.
 
Veloci I'm sure that is the way it is in real life, but according to GT5 would you say toe in, or toe out induces more turn in? From your passage I'm getting that your description is warrenting the turn in to a toe out setting, but I feel on GT5 when I toe out vehicles they seem to have less turn in & vice versa. I could be wrong so whats your take on this? 👍
 
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Ah that makes more sense.. I add a little toe in up front for stability mainly, but thought it helped turn in as well, but i am mistaken.
 
I just drive the car and try to make due. I haven't really tried the toe angles to their extremes. I guess that could help out with some steering inputs.
 
extremes are never good for the car. You never want to run anything to the extreme because its not really intended to be run as such and there is most likely a way to make the car better some other way. Toe should only be messed with in small increments as anything too large will accelerate tire wear, which is never wanted.
 
Kinda doesn't matter when there's no tire wear. That's why I don't do -40 or +40 on the toe. And Camber angle I never really go over 2.5, so I'm not in light with the extent of those either. I've been trying out the IS-F and the IS-200, they are about equal but the rotation of the 200 is much easier. It just comes naturally it seems.
 
Kinda doesn't matter when there's no tire wear. That's why I don't do -40 or +40 on the toe. And Camber angle I never really go over 2.5, so I'm not in light with the extent of those either. I've been trying out the IS-F and the IS-200, they are about equal but the rotation of the 200 is much easier. It just comes naturally it seems.

Yea my most aggressive settings are about the same. I never go pass 2.5 on the camber (most common setting is 2.0 on the front & 0.0 on the rear), and my toes stay within 10 degrees at most. I tend to toe in my front wheels because it seems to give me more toe in, or at least It feels that way to me' :crazy:
 
Mid-day & Late night P1 Session going down today @ 5pm PST & 10pm PST'
 
hey guys can some one tell me when next race is just joined leauge?????
 
hey joe im in socal as well, will i be able to get to your room from the online rooms or do i need to add you as a friend.
 
Next race is tomorrow at 5 PDT. Room opens at 4-430 PDT

I'll be unable to make it to tomorrow's race as I have dinner commitments with fellow classmates. Sorry guys.
 
Thers so much talk about TOES you'd think some of us have a foot fettish.
I on the other hand have a fungus on my toes.Its getting better as long as I keep appling the cream my fine female doctor prescribed.
I've induced ringworm so that i have a reason to see her again. I like it when she applies the cream.She so good at it.
Hope this helps some of u's in setting up yur cars good luk :D
 
Lol!! No Tao! Not those toes!!! LMAO!!
 
hey joe whats the room# so i can join thanks
 
hey joe im in socal as well, will i be able to get to your room from the online rooms or do i need to add you as a friend.

definitely just send one over, or I'll send you one tonight' 👍
 
Can i race again please?
 
I'm running 52's, I hope that's competitive
 
I don't think I'll make it either...
 
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