Has GT6 been abandoned by PD?

[SlipZtrEm]

When PD implemented that horrible XP system, did I blame SONY or PD?

When GT5 had a paint shop that had no paint in it, did I blame SONY or PD?

When GT5 had awful looking shadows and particle effect jaggies, did I blame SONY or PD?

When GT5 had a Race Mod that was barely there, with almost nothing of a livery system at all, did I blame SONY or PD?

When PD produced a damage system that made everyone choke, did I blame SONY or PD?

Shall I go on, or do you geddit yet?

...wasn't it Sony (and the fans' uproar, IIRC) that "forced" PD to release GT "early"?

 

[Samus]

Now who's making things up?

When PD implemented that horrible XP system, did I blame SONY or PD?

When GT5 had a paint shop that had no paint in it, did I blame SONY or PD?

When GT5 had awful looking shadows and particle effect jaggies, did I blame SONY or PD?

When GT5 had a Race Mod that was barely there, with almost nothing of a livery system at all, did I blame SONY or PD?

When PD produced a damage system that made everyone choke, did I blame SONY or PD?

Shall I go on, or do you geddit yet?


I most certainly do.

GT6's sales numbers are apparently quite a bit behind where GT5 was at the same point in time. "Proof that the fans are disenchanted and running away from Gran Turismo."

GT5's sales numbers reach 10 million faster than GT4 did, and sell one million copies in 2010. "Sales numbers don't mean squat."

That's something else that gets under my craw.

You can't use sales numbers to prove someone likes a game, because the sale comes before the playing. You can use a lack of sales to prove people aren't interested in a game, however. It's quite easy, because they didn't buy it. What you can't prove however is why they didn't buy it. All you can say is there wasn't enough reason for them to do so.

 

[lGNAl]

I think we can only judge the sales number's when GT5 goes offline. To really see if people will get GT6 with all the bad reviews. At the same time it depends weather they'll add all the content promised by then, and that definitely will give a different result.

 

[Samus]

I honestly can't see that there are any large numbers still playing GT5 that are waiting for the servers to go offline before they move onto GT6.

 

[jimipitbull]

I think we can only judge the sales number's when GT5 goes offline. To really see if people will get GT6 with all the bad reviews. At the same time it depends weather they'll add all the content promised by then, and that definitely will give a different result.

There are more good reviews than bad ones. Check metacritic page that compiles them.

Outside of GTP, there really aren't too many bad reviews.

 

[HKS racer]

You can't use sales numbers to prove someone likes a game, because the sale comes before the playing. You can use a lack of sales to prove people aren't interested in a game, however. It's quite easy, because they didn't buy it. What you can't prove however is why they didn't buy it. All you can say is there wasn't enough reason for them to do so.

Another thing we should mention when we talk about sale figures is popularity.
Must of people buy stuff because of it, good or bad doesn't matter.
They don't wait reviews, it's "GT" so "let's preorder it".
And all those people keep buying COD / Battlefield not because they are awesome games because they are famous. New features? Almost nothing. But they always sell well.

For GT is no different, a good amount of sales of GT5 and GT6 come from the name, despite the quality.
This trend will probably continue with GT7 even if it might be a sligthly negative trend.
Eventually slightly more people will give up PD and will go pc.
But GT7 will still sell well. Maybe not as good as GT4 but still important figures... and yes, despite the quality, sadly.

 

[Tenacious D]

...wasn't it Sony (and the fans' uproar, IIRC) that "forced" PD to release GT "early"?

I'm not sure what that has to do with my post, at all, but what the heck.

I'm assuming that's in reference to GT5, and I'm sure all parties were growing tired of the ordeal, even Kaz and the team.

SONY, certainly, because they had been bankrolling a game that was in perpetual "soon" state. The word was late in 2009 or early 2010 that SONY had spent more than $80 million on GT5. Considering that PD worked on it several months more, who knows what the final bill was? But I'm sure SONY finally said, "Enough. Produce the darn game."

You were here in 2009, the GTP natives were definitely getting cranky. The crawl in spring towards E3 2010 was an ordeal, and there was a lot of unpleasantness because PD wasn't releasing squat as far as news. A bunch of posters kept repeating, "Please just release what you have NOW and patch it LATER!" And boy, did they. My GT5 install became so wonky in 2012 from all the updates, it was only good for three plays until it crashed.

And Kaz began to look tired in a few interviews. I have a feeling it was reaching the breaking point for everyone.

So now, here we are, and I'm sure I'm not the only one that pokes at the News tab first thing. This is an uncomfortable place to be in, hoping that Kaz will bless us with some of those promised features, and regardless of whether a GT7 Prologue is coming or not, we hope that GT6 will have more than a bow to wrap around it before they move on to the vast power grid offered by PS4.

April is almost here, and it'll pass quickly. Something Big is due in May. And then before we know it, E3 will explode all over us. What will be, what will be...??

 

[Johnnypenso]

There are more good reviews than bad ones. Check metacritic page that compiles them.

Outside of GTP, there really aren't too many bad reviews.

I don't read many reviews but I did read a few of GT6 a couple of months ago on metacritic. IMO most of the reviews, outside of the obvious fanboys who just post that GT is the greatest thing since sliced bread, are a near exact mirror of what you find here.

Cars - check
Tracks - check
Physics - check
Graphics - check

Everything else..not so good.

I also noticed that many of the positive reviews contain things that aren't true like this:

GT 6 improves on most things from GT 5 with better physics, sound

A very good racing simulator with a huge number of cars (about 1200), good racing mechanics, weather system, proper career mode

To me the physics and tyre model feel even superior to the likes of iRacing and rFactor,

 

[Tenacious D]

Because I'm in such a warm fuzzy state, I just wanted to wish everyone here and at PD God's blessing and a good fun weekend to come. I sure feel good about something, so I hope it's good news soon.

 

[Imari]

I don't read many reviews but I did read a few of GT6 a couple of months ago on metacritic. IMO most of the reviews, outside of the obvious fanboys who just post that GT is the greatest thing since sliced bread, are a near exact mirror of what you find here.

Cars - check
Tracks - check
Physics - check
Graphics - check

Everything else..not so good.

I also noticed that many of the positive reviews contain things that aren't true like this:

GT 6 improves on most things from GT 5 with better physics, sound

A very good racing simulator with a huge number of cars (about 1200), good racing mechanics, weather system, proper career mode

To me the physics and tyre model feel even superior to the likes of iRacing and rFactor,

I remember the IGN review of GT5. 10/10 simulator, 5/10 game.

I thought, and still think, that was the most succinct and accurate summary of the game presented in it's early months.

How unfortunate then, that GT6 chose not to correct that, but to take it to an even greater extreme. We have a game that is a very good simulator for a console, one of the best. But that provides an entirely outdated and lacking gameplay experience.

For those who are naturally self-entertaining, it is no doubt a joy. For those who prefer goals and challenges, it is no doubt a bore.

 

[Chrunch Houston]

@Imari , don't ignore those that love it only online.

Most of us online lovers are very happy.

It is just the Shuffle Racers that I still feel bad for.

Other than that, GT6 online racing is great, as long as you have a good Internet connection.


The updates will come, you will all see. No company just quits without declaring bankruptcy and going out of business.

So much whining.

My opinion.

 

[Spagetti69]

The updates will come, you will all see. No company just quits without declaring bankruptcy and going out of business.

So much whining.

My opinion.

The last Guardian? Projects do get abandoned. Those guys make PD look professional.

 

[yabiggoose]

Well PD has gone all out with the seasonals today!

 

[TokoTurismo]

Hahaha. Man I just love seeing you guys argue, even @SlipZtrEm is jumping in. Keep it up, because it's entertaining.

 

[mister dog]

Well PD has gone all out with the seasonals today!

They must have brainstormed long and hard there in order to get you guys excited!

 

[elston87]

If anything, the FXX Super Lap was something, as the car was provided for you to use during your participation of the event; it also isn't a prize car if I remember correctly.

Other than that, the BMW event was boring and the Subaru event at Matterhorn was a nightmare; talk about a broken Start button. I was expecting an update tonight actually, but I forgot who I was dealing with here...

 

[Imari]

@Imari , don't ignore those that love it only online.

Most of us online lovers are very happy.

It is just the Shuffle Racers that I still feel bad for.

Other than that, GT6 online racing is great, as long as you have a good Internet connection.

And are happy to spend time to find a good room, or join a league and only race at set times.

Online is pretty useless for people like me who have limited time and just want to pick up and play. Or who want to play asynchronously and challenge leaderboards. Or who want some fun race modes beyond simple racing or drifting.

GT6 online is pretty limited. It's much the same story as the single player. I'm sure it's great if you want to jump into a room and race with your friends. But if you're not, or if you want a range of experiences, it's not going to do very well at satisfying that.

When I'm sober, I race exclusively online. (When I'm not I don't, out of courtesy to other racers.) You could describe me as an online lover, I certainly spend a lot of time racing there. But GT6 is yet to persuade me that it's worth spending any more than the hour I already have on it's woeful online service.

 

[eran0004]

Has GT6 been abandoned by PD?

Answer: Doesn't look like it.

Here's the history of version updates in GT5 (blue) and GT6 (red) during the first 112 days after release.
Looks pretty much like business as usual.

The real question is: Has people grown more impatient since GT5?
Answer: Probably.

 

[pyrates]

Answer: Doesn't look like it.

Here's the history of version updates in GT5 (blue) and GT6 (red) during the first 112 days after release.
Looks pretty much like business as usual.

The real question is: Has people grown more impatient since GT5?
Answer: Probably.

There are however some important differences that your stats can't reflect.

1) GT5 had a much more longer lifespan than GT6. I mean the time until the release of the next GT. With GT6's short life span, updates should come more frequently to actually finish it.

2) GT5 wasn't lacking that many important and advertised key features as GT6 does. Some of them were teased long before the release even.

3) With GT5 PD had the benefit of the doubt in terms of getting themselves up to speed with a new system. After all this time this is not an excuse anymore for delays.

So yes by looking at your numbers people do look more impatient. However, we have an entirely different context with GT6 than we had with GT5.

 

[eran0004]

There are however some important differences that your stats can't reflect.

1) GT5 had a much more longer lifespan than GT6. I mean the time until the release of the next GT. With GT6's short life span, updates should come more frequently to actually finish it.

No one knows anything about the life span of GT6. What we know is that the GT5 servers will close soon and that version 2.14 probably was the last update it got.

2) GT5 wasn't lacking that many important and advertised key features as GT6 does. Some of them were teased long before the release even.

That has no relevance as to wether or not the game has been abandoned.

3) With GT5 PD had the benefit of the doubt in terms of getting themselves up to speed with a new system. After all this time this is not an excuse anymore for delays.

The update pace is the same as for GT5. In terms of data size GT6 has got more than twice that of which GT5 had after the first 112 days.

So yes by looking at your numbers people do look more impatient. However, we have an entirely different context with GT6 than we had with GT5.

The context is different. And that's why I'm arguing that it's in fact the gamers that has gotten more impatient, not that the game has been abandoned.

 

[Imari]

Answer: Doesn't look like it.

Here's the history of version updates in GT5 (blue) and GT6 (red) during the first 112 days after release.
Looks pretty much like business as usual.

The real question is: Has people grown more impatient since GT5?
Answer: Probably.

Except that as I posted earlier, the GT5 patches largely added features while the GT6 patches largely added content.

Features tend not to be that large file size-wise, whereas content is almost guaranteed to be.

So your graph really shows nothing. GT6 didn't and doesn't need more content. What it does need are features, and those are not well measured by the file sizes of the patches.

 

[eran0004]

Except that as I posted earlier, the GT5 patches largely added features while the GT6 patches largely added content.

Features tend not to be that large, whereas content is almost guaranteed to be.

So your graph really shows nothing. GT6 didn't and doesn't need more content. What it does need are features, and those are not well measured by the files sizes of the patches.

My graph shows that the game is not abandoned, which is what I'm arguing. Unless you want to argue that adding "content" instead of "features" (whatever the difference is) is a way of abandoning a game.

 

[snowgt]

...
Other than that, GT6 online racing is great, as long as you have a good Internet connection.
...

So wrong. Online is the worst part of GT6. It's buggy as hell (pitstop changes laptimes? cars not visible anymore for some others in the room?, etc.) that on some nights you better call off race meets, because there's no way you will be able to hold a proper race. And we STILL have no proper way to see which tuning-parts someone has installed, or better ways to enforce individual restrictions. And let's not talk about buggy tracks like Bathurst where half the field has game freezes, if the race lasts longer than half an hour.

It could be so good, but (currently) it's not.

 

[Imari]

My graph shows that the game is not abandoned, which is what I'm arguing. Unless you want to argue that adding "content" instead of "features" (whatever the difference is) is a way of abandoning a game.

If that's all you're trying to show, then you don't need file size on the graph at all, just date of release. So why show file size? What were you trying to show with it?

 

[pyrates]

No one knows anything about the life span of GT6. What we know is that the GT5 servers will close soon and that version 2.14 probably was the last update it got.

When GT7 really comes out before the end of the year, then we have a good idea of the life span for GT6. A new version usually marks the end of the older one not long after. People switch, online services are abandoned etc.

That has no relevance as to wether or not the game has been abandoned.

True. It does however explain the impatience of the fans.

The update pace is the same as for GT5. In terms of data size GT6 has got more than twice that of which GT5 had after the first 112 days.

The data size says absolutely nothing. It is important what is in those updates and it wasn't all that much in GT6 so far. As @Imari said especially the lack of new features is the problem.

The context is different. And that's why I'm arguing that it's in fact the gamers that has gotten more impatient, not that the game has been abandoned.

Yes but the impatience comes from the fact that GT6 is at the end of the PS3 era and time is running out much quicker for GT6 than it did for GT5. I think this is what influences people's perception a lot and creates impatience.

 

[eran0004]

If that's all you're trying to show, then you don't need file size on the graph at all, just date of release. So why show file size? What were you trying to show with it?

Don't tell me that if those had all been 1MB patches you wouldn't have used it to show how abandoned GT6 is

The data size says absolutely nothing.

It does, see above.

It is important what is in those updates and it wasn't all that much in GT6 so far. As @Imari said especially the lack of new features is the problem.

Content-wise it's about the same development rate as GT5. So no support for the "abandoned"-hypothesis there either. It seems more like it's the usual pace by which PD is working.

 

[Zlork]

Answer: Doesn't look like it.

Here's the history of version updates in GT5 (blue) and GT6 (red) during the first 112 days after release.
Looks pretty much like business as usual.

The real question is: Has people grown more impatient since GT5?
Answer: Probably.

Good job!

The problem is that people believe that GT7 will be release this year. So they are stressed.

GT7, this year, it's very very very unlikely unless Sony wants to kill Drive Club.

 

[Imari]

Don't tell me that if those had all been 1MB patches you wouldn't have used it to show how abandoned GT6 is

I'm saying how abandoned GT6 is with the file sizes on there. Your file sizes show nothing.

Content-wise it's about the same development rate as GT5. So no support for the "abandoned"-hypothesis there either. It seems more like it's the usual pace by which PD is working.

No, content-wise it's very, very different to GT5. We had no content at all for GT5 until Spec 2.0 when the first DLC arrived. With GT6 we had some on Day 1. We had more up through the end of January when the second part of the Red Bull challenges was added. We've had no content since then, despite a number of indications from PD/Sony that there would be some.

Feature-wise is also very different to GT5, but reversed.

 

[eran0004]

Good job!

The problem is that people believe that GT7 will be release this year. So they are stressed.

GT7, this year, it's very very very unlikely unless Sony wants to kill Drive Club.

Thanks! It's all thanks to Jordan and the rest of the staff for keeping the news posts properly tagged

The stressed thing sounds plausible. Suddenly there was a month with no update and people got nervous. Well, GT5 had an even bigger gap between 1.05 and 1.06 (eight weeks, to be precise) and it got supported up until last summer.

 

[Zlork]

Thanks! It's all thanks to Jordan and the rest of the staff for keeping the news posts properly tagged

The stressed thing sounds plausible. Suddenly there was a month with no update and people got nervous. Well, GT5 had an even bigger gap between 1.05 and 1.06 (eight weeks, to be precise) and it got supported up until last summer.

👍

Look at DLC for The Last of Us

It had been planned before release and they took more than six months to develop.
The Last of Us is one example among many others ! I can quote Bioshock Infinite or Battlefield 4....

We must let Podi do their job. I am persuaded that they will keep their promises, at least the vast majority