Hybriding/save hacking arrives in GT6 - Public discussion

[Intronium]

To you guys having an absolute meltdown over hacks being the end of the world because they're ruining your precious online racing.
Here's a solution, make your rooms friends only or race with people that you know won't hack...

Also you's say even the realistic hackers should be banned, you're kidding right?
If that happened in GT5 about 90% of the drifting community would be banned

The only ones who should get banned are the 5yo's who make 100K hp beetles, fits, and who deliberately join racing rooms to win by cheating etc etc..

So if PD allowed basic engine swaps in GT6, would you's be having a go at guys who have an engine swap and you didn't?

YES AGREED. Is it really such a big deal? Just avoid hackers.

/thread

 

[jimipitbull]

Let me understand the question first. You've presented 3 scenarios that make it possible to enter the same car with the same PP into a race with no visible differences but possible slight performance differences without hacking and you want me to explain how to control this if the car is hacked?

These are quirks of the PP system that already exist and can already be exploited. Hybrids don't change or alter that in any way. It existed before hybrids and will exist after them.

I'd also venture to guess that car #3 will not outperform car #1. It has less HP, less torque and 3.3% more weight/hp, all indicators that it will be slightly slower. The torque is also less available in version 3. In version 1 the torque and HP peak are almost in the same spot and it's flatter as the revs go higher. In version 1, it falls off much more dramatically as revs increase, meaning less available torque and therefore less acceleration.

Car #2 with ballast on the rear (it's an FF after all) would be my first choice, but that set of tuning parameters is already in the game, has nothing to do with hybriding.

Hacking/hybrids will probably be different this time round - downforce does not effect PP in GT6

 

[dedwards252]

I said that reporting them does ban them, and in order for them to get back and UNBAN themselves they need another JB PS3, which arent being made anymore, those available are expensive, and rare... and the process of getting that ID is in itself tedious. . so while they have unlimited tries .... they will eventually STOP because those I.Ds will eventually RUN out one way or another. so keep on reporting them


And the PS4 is not hacked, that was my point ( and new PS3 models cant be hacked) . I dont know if its of any help to you but thats surely an option to avoid something that is the UNAVOIDABLE hacks already on certain PS3s.

And you better hope the PS4 doesnt get hacked. Its encrypted the same way credit card companies do ... so if they PS4 goes down, you have bigger fish to cry about LOL

See my signature..

I am seeing a few trends in replies that I feel the need to respond to.

"I Only use hacked cars off line"
"Blah,Blah,Blah, Single player"
"Something some thing something Offline,something something something Single player"

To the people in that crowd, The group that is anti Haxors aren't responding to you. What you do offline is your own business. Most people don't care what you do offline. The only person you are cheating there is yourself. If you aren't making someone else’s online experience worse, than we really don't care about you. It's the ones that go and cheat online. Some of us spend a lot of time working on our tunes, and skills.

"PD isn't giving me what I want so I'm going to take it"
That's kind of like saying. "Well She isn't giving me what I want so I'm just going to take it." Kind of an extreme, but it's still saying the same thing. Right Now GT6 isn't complete, we get that. Give them some time. They just may be working on doing an Engine/drive line swap option.

Maybe PD isn't giving you what you want because they really don't know what that is. Have you tried posting messages on their facebook wall? Send them an E mail? Or did you just hack the game and rape what you wanted?

Hacking doesn't hurt anybody

Did you happen to notice that after the hacking started, PD had started to force us to use whatever car they wanted for seasonal events? When the game gets flooded with hackers online, legitimate replicas or a real car, Realistic power upgrades, or full blown over the top hacks, what ever. PD had to take time out and put in measures to stop those from being used. That cost man power, and that cost money. Time and money taken from development of new features. Maybe GT6 is incomplete because you took that time from PD to have those features in GT6.

You are also destroying the integrity of the game. Am I losing to a better driver, or a hacker?
It's only a small percentage that hack, and of those it's a small percent that abuse it.

That is a load of ********, and you know it.



Personally I think that anyone that brings in a hacked car in any form to an online event, I don't care what you have done to it. If you made it slower, changed engine sounds, painted an unpaintable car, slammed it, swapped wheels, ect. Hell even if you open it in the hack program, and save it un altered. Your PSN should be instanly banned from GT servers. Zero tolerance should be how it should be handled.

Teal ... everything you have stated is undeniably correct. Your detractors will deride you, as they always do, but they also know that you are right in what you say, regardless of all the garbage they spew to deny what they know to be true. Save your breath on them and relish in the fact that the vast silent majority is with you.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Hacking/hybrids will probably be different this time round - aero does not effect PP in GT6

This is a potential issue for sure but it remains to be seen how it will affect things. Aero affects top speed and acceleration now so just adding aero isn't necessarily going to make you faster. We also don't yet know if adding aero on cars that don't already come with aero is possible to begin with or whether it does affect PP. I'm sure we'll know soon enough though..

I won't leap to any conclusions like I did in GT5 before the testing is done and we can say for certain whether it provides an advantage on the track.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

We can do simple test, use S2000 for example, tune it to 450PP without flat floor ( consider flat floor is added aero ), run it at short track like Tsukuba on comfort soft tire to get the best effect when aero added later. Take a note of the lap time without flat floor, now install flat floor, and leave it as is, pretend it's still 450PP ( a hybrid ), run it again, and see if the lap times improve.

I know flat floor is not really accurate as it gives effect even on low speed, while aero values ( downforce ) only works above certain speed ( I think roughly above 60mph/100kmh - medium speed and high speed ) - depend on the value too. But, it should give rough idea of what to expect from cars with added aero.

 

[Johnnypenso]

We can do simple test, use S2000 for example, tune it to 450PP without flat floor ( consider flat floor is added aero ), run it at short track like Tsukuba on comfort soft tire to get the best effect when aero added later. Take a note of the lap time without flat floor, now install flat floor, and leave it as is, pretend it's still 450PP ( a hybrid ), run it again, and see if the lap times improve.

I know flat floor is not really accurate as it gives effect even on low speed, while aero values ( downforce ) only works above certain speed ( I think roughly above 60mph/100kmh - medium speed and high speed ) - depend on the value too. But, it should give rough idea of what to expect from cars with added aero.

Apples and oranges. The effect of flat floors isn't the same as aero so this test will give skewed results especially on a track like Tsukuba that's less dependent on top speed for lap times.

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Please tell me at you are just joking, or are you seriously just plain stupid?



Sorry but discussion with you is not having any success, you may save your face by telling at you have some brain tumor or just trolling.

Very mature replies - nice man

On a serious note, throwing childish insults around because someone disagrees with you, won't earn you respect. It will how ever do the opposite. Grow up.

 

[subsist]

425 PP
1700 HP
200 kg (or whatever the lightest car with weight reduction is)

Now all cars must conform to 425 PP and no one can overload HP to generate a false 425 PP. Though you can make the restrictions tighter if you wanted since no 1700 HP car would be able to enter 425 PP anyway, so 700 HP should be fine.

I didn't even know GT6 allowed PP + HP/weight after PD never bothered adding it to GT5. This already makes the issue being discussed tiny in comparison to GT5.



They fail the PP restriction.

Or they keep their 10% and slow their car down by adding weight. By the way, does GT6 even allow you as a host to control ballast settings?




Then I hope when someone comes in and drives backwards or rams people you don't do anything about it. Someone breaking the rules shouldn't require any attention from you right?



There is no reason to ban them. Only cheaters need to be punished.


Then what is the point of this racing league? Also, how are you enforcing that someone isn't playing with PP/tuning under the regs? Is it not a problem if people cheat without modding?


What unfair advantage was gained to constitute cheating?


I'd honestly say get over it. It sounds like these people would throw controllers against the wall in disgust if that same person, with a normal car turned out to be a rammer. People cheat online, it's no surprise. It has nothing to do with modding. Whoever is host just kicks E and they get on with it.


Also add to this hypothetical that the mod car user joins in on the laugh the whole room is having with an F1 fast Subaru 360, says it's a joke and tells them all about modding. They get interested and start their own private modding league which adds to their enjoyment of the game.




No, you solve those by setting room restrictions.



It's obviously not fair, but the situation doesn't make much sense to me either. The room doesn't even appear to be about competitive racing.


Why are you kicking someone who is following the rules? That makes no sense. Yes people liked the comment, because modding or not the restrictions serve the same purpose. Keep racing fair. If you don't want a fair race, then by all means avoid using restrictions. Just know there is no reason to complain when a 12000 HP car enters the room, it's abiding by the rules.




Not very useful or constructive. People with more than max HP aren't cheating, and people with less than max HP aren't immune from cheating. What PD needs is some sort of mod integration that allows people to easily use and filter mods in the game. Along with this the host needs to be able to enforce an integrity check that would allow what parts of the game can be modded and by how much. Failure to comply with the integrity check either sends a warning to the host or denies the failed player room access.




It held true for GT5.

It also seems like the only hacking you can do is to save files.

The way you hackers try to justify yourselves is almost reprehensible.

You use words like "it seems" PP can't be hacked, or it "seems" only save files can be changed, when in reality you have no idea how deep hackers can go into the code, how much they can change with hex editing if they find out a way. I used a hypothetical in that situation to explain a certain point, and you go and try and twist a "hypothetical" to suit your own argument. The very reason for a hypothetical situation is too not twist it, that is why it is "hypothetical". You concentrate on the task at hand in the question, not look for excuses and other hypotheticals to try and justify it.

You can come up with a million hypotheticals to support your argument, but in the situation I proposed it is hard to believe anybody would think that was fair, and only a hack supporter would say something like "get over it", like it is my job to get over people cheating online and not my job to try and actively stop it?

Get real......

lol i feel the need to mention to all the people who hate hackers... GUYS they arent here ( if they are then who cares). LMAO seriously, you wont change their mind either. Im telling you your opinions matter nothing. ( youre only cheating yourself and all that nonsense sounds like an 80 year old telling a 13 year old not to eat candy, the 80 year old should know better) Hackers wont let sony tell them what to do , wont let PD tell them what to do, and they sure as hell wont let some nerd raged fan on a thread tell them what to do.



Im not sugar coating anything, im telling you they WILL BE PRESENT. They will be there and they will own you, and you will get mad. BUT im also telling you how to counter that, and that is by REPORTING THEM TO PSN. that is the only way. And if anyone here admits to hacking and they have their PSN ID up and out in the open the feel free to report them. SONY then investigates the profile and the amount of reports and will ban them. Thats how it works. Whining and crying wont help, we know you dont like hackers online, youve made that clear, who cares.. now its time to act like an adult and see things for what they are. Who cares if you dont like that they hack, they dont care about you... with that said REPORT THEM. that is the only way you can counter fight them !!! im telling you for a reason

This is such a submissive view, do you just let people walk all over you in life and let them get away with it without saying anything? Do you get bashed in life in the street then walk away saying to yourself... I'm not going to try and do anything about, it won't change them. Going to the police just will make me look like a 13 year old complaining... really, is this your way to try and stop people complaining about hackers?

I will voice my disgust at it, no matter what you think I should do. You can try and justify your hacking all you want, it falls on deaf ears for pretty much anyone who is on my side of the fence.

My opinion is hackers should try and stop justifying yourselves, just like most minority groups you guys have the biggest voices of them all and will try anything to justify your views while trying to put down anyone who tries to stop you from breaking the rules. Well, welcome to life buddy, because there is a whole army of us on this earth dedicated to keeping the peace and follow certain rules and try not to break them on purpose, we are not going away.

And to say, "guys, they are not here", they are here, some have already admitted in this thread they actively go online with hacked cars, can you not read, or do you have a comprehension problem, because I have certainly seen them "here". I will report them like you mentioned, but I will also voice my opinion on a public forum, the very thing a forum is made for.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Please tell me at you are just joking, or are you seriously just plain stupid?

Sorry but discussion with you is not having any success, you may save your face by telling at you have some brain tumor or just trolling.

There's no need for insults buddy, I gave you a perfectly good, well thought out response. Perhaps you should respond directly to the points I made and explain how you disagree with them by using logic and factual information, rather than calling me stupid and a troll. I'll let the insult slide once, not again.

I repeat, the scenario you presented is already in the game without hacking. Having hacking present in the game will not change the fact that it's already possible to manipulate weight/ballast/engine limiter to your advantage.

You're not mad about us beating you at the Olympics today are you buddy? There's always third place...the guys on the bench are priceless!!!

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Apples and oranges. The effect of flat floors isn't the same as aero so this test will give skewed results especially on a track like Tsukuba that's less dependent on top speed for lap times.

If a higher speed track is used, flat floor will kill the acceleration and top speed ... maybe pretend the flat floor = too much aero added Maybe use street cars that have no aero stock but can be upgraded with front + rear aero values ... if there's such a car.

 

[Vagabond]

I'll let the insult slide once...

We will not, however.

One last time, guys. Please keep the conversation/debate civil or we will just put a stop to it and issue the appropriate warnings. This is not a personal matter but many of you are taking it as such.

 

[Johnnypenso]

If a higher speed track is used, flat floor will kill the acceleration and top speed ... maybe pretend the flat floor = too much aero added Maybe use street cars that have no aero stock but can be upgraded with front + rear aero values ... if there's such a car.

True again. I just want to avoid looking at test results that may or may not reflect what is possible with hybriding. If they show that aero doesn't help, the anti-hybriders will just say the tests are bogus. If they show aero does help, the anti-hybriders will just jump up and down as if it's a foregone conclusion that hybriding will give you a hidden advantage. Either way you can't win, so I'd rather just wait for the real thing.

 

[jimipitbull]

I would like to see PD give the hackers a taste of their own medicine - use the mini ninja patches to handicap these hacked cars. ie. give them moon buggy physics, shrink them down to 1/10 scale, reduce fuel capacity to 1 litre

 

[Johnnypenso]

I would like to see PD give the hackers a taste of their own medicine - use the mini ninja patches to handicap these hacked cars. ie. give them moon buggy physics, shrink them down to 1/10 scale, reduce fuel capacity to 1 litre

That would be awesome:tup:👍

 

[Intronium]

I would like to see PD give the hackers a taste of their own medicine - use the mini ninja patches to handicap these hacked cars. ie. give them moon buggy physics, shrink them down to 1/10 scale, reduce fuel capacity to 1 litre

Soooooo I shouldn't be allowed to mess with a game I paid $60 for in single player by myself? I understand not wanting hacked cars online, that makes sense, but in the end I paid for this game, at least the single player portion of it.

 

[subsist]

I started out against it like a lot of people here but people like @Exorcet and @Griffith500 kept responding with rational, well reasoned discussion and so I tried it for myself. At first I set out to try and break the system, find a hidden way to build a car better than anyone else could, not to win more than I already do, but just so I could prove to myself whether or not you can gain an advantage by hybriding. So I built about 50 cars all of which were great cars and fun to drive, but none of them were any faster than the Elises, NSX's, LFA's etc that dominated PP racing. In fact none of them were as fast unless I used the Elise etc. chassis and dropped a different body on it. And I used downforce, grip multipliers, engine swaps, drivetrain swaps, every tool at my disposal and nothing made me any faster than the fastest cars. But I could compete at 500 PP with a 69 Vette, or rip around the track in a Camaro SS '10 and it sound like a real V8. I had a 427 Cobra body and motor with the chassis of an Elise that was incredible at 550PP, not quite as fast as an LFA or NSX, but so much fun!!

My belated apologies for buying into the hype before checking it out for myself in GT5

So.. Because you cannot break the PP system, it cannot be done? Is that your view on this? Maybe you just do not have the correct skills in this field to proper editing of game files under the hood and hex editing to change values, but from experience in many online games over the years, and from competitive play in the FPS genre, I can say, any game can be altered and hacked any way it wants if the person doing it has the proper knowledge.

And PD not having an anti-cheat system installed, if and when someone does find out how to change values under the hood, all hell will break lose.

 

[jimipitbull]

Soooooo I shouldn't be allowed to mess with a game I paid $60 for in single player by myself? I understand not wanting hacked cars online, that makes sense, but in the end I paid for this game, at least the single player portion of it.

Sure, you can mess with the game. But if you connect to internet while playing GT6 with hacked save file, PD can mess with your game.

 

[Not_A_Guest]

Can't we just lock the thread and take the conversation on a more private level?

 

[JDM_Tuning_S3OZ]

Here's a solution to all you guys having a absolute meltdown trying to defend your precious hacking, supposedly because the game doesn't have the feature you want and it's the end of your world, go play another game. You can make all the realistic RWD swapped Honda's and AWD Vipers and F50 GT's with ridiculous engines stuffed in all kinds of cars in that other game and you don't even have to hack to do it.

Think I'm done with this thread and this debate. It boils down to selfish people that don't care about anyone else thinking they can create whatever rules they want as they go, while selectively enforcing others rather ironically. None care that this stuff ruins online and TT. All about them and their need to have what they want in the game no matter the effects on others. As if others don't have long lists of stuff we think should be in the game.

Why would I go and buy a terrible console to buy a terrible game just to have engine and drivetrain swaps?
You clearly have no logic.

RWD swapped Honda's ?
S2000 is already RWD
A Viper is RWD why would I make it AWD?
And if a F50 GT is that fugly looking Ford ute well, nuff said...

Your reply has got to be one of the most stupidest things I've ever read on GTP.

 

[JDM_Tuning_S3OZ]

Would you have a go at the postman if he changed the numbers on your letterbox?

PD can do whatever they want with their intellectual property.

My bad double post..

Can you even read?

 

[Brend]

There's no need for insults buddy, I gave you a perfectly good, well thought out response. Perhaps you should respond directly to the points I made and explain how you disagree with them by using logic and factual information, rather than calling me stupid and a troll. I'll let the insult slide once, not again.

I repeat, the scenario you presented is already in the game without hacking. Having hacking present in the game will not change the fact that it's already possible to manipulate weight/ballast/engine limiter to your advantage.

You're not mad about us beating you at the Olympics today are you buddy? There's always third place...the guys on the bench are priceless!!!
View attachment 115907

Hey, at least their team is full of badasses and don't have Crybaby Crosbaby.


In regard to hacking in-game, it will become unavoidable if you choose to play online, it's unfortunate but you simply cannot 'avoid it' so long as you play in public rooms. Playing in private rooms is not a solution either, it will be interesting to see how PD deal with the issue, and I can bet they will. It seems to be one of the very few things they try their utmost to fix as of recent times.

 

[Snej97]

I dont know if i should post it , but you can't drive those hacked cars online in GT(no comment why^^)
i tried with my second psn account.(i never hack online)
And btw don't ask me about how you hack on GT6.
I just want to say: Relax, drink your tee and wait for the new GT6 Track

 

[Teal]

Soooooo I shouldn't be allowed to mess with a game I paid $60 for in single player by myself? I understand not wanting hacked cars online, that makes sense, but in the end I paid for this game, at least the single player portion of it.

I already said that the ones that keep the hacks offline aren't the problem. It's the ones that take them online that are the problem.

 

[jimipitbull]

Can you even read?

Slowly, but it's heaps faster if I speak the words out loud. I've been using Tony Abbott's voice for your posts.

 

[Intronium]

Sure, you can mess with the game. But if you connect to internet while playing GT6 with hacked save file, PD can mess with your game.

I already said that the ones that keep the hacks offline aren't the problem. It's the ones that take them online that are the problem.

Gotcha. I'm against online public lobby hacking as well, but I think private lobbies with hacked cars should be allowed.

 

[JDM_Tuning_S3OZ]

Slowly, but it's heaps faster if I speak the words out loud. I've been using Tony Abbott's voice for your posts.

Anyway....

 

[Teal]

Gotcha. I'm against online public lobby hacking as well, but I think private lobbies with hacked cars should be allowed.

Maybe if PD could detect that you have a hacked save file, then only let you online in those lobbies sure.

 

[Rod Carvalho]

A simple solution to car modding hack is give the people the power to see other drivers car's specs on online rooms.

 

[Griffith500]

I took mine online, and specifically looked for rooms intended to show off or experiment with hybrids. It was a fun time, similar to when the game was first released. It literally was like a rebirth of sorts.

What's needed is a filter, nothing more - a simple database query can determine if a given car is achieved through "vanilla" means or not (although that database might be large because of all the permutations, and there will be a lot of queries to transfer if it's to be held remotely somewhere to prevent abuse).

Visible car specs, as above, implemented optionally again, are probably a good idea in general.

 

[JDM_Tuning_S3OZ]

I just can't understand why all you guys are taking this 'destroy all hackers attitude', you do know this is a GAME...

Let people play how they want, yes there is the very small majority who cheat, if you play with people you know who won't cheat.
eg. Setup a racing series on here and reserve spots for each race, you'll find that cheaters will not bother you then.

Don't put drifters and people that just go to cruise lobbies into the same 'cheater' group as the guys who do it to win races.

We do it to make the game more enjoyable by making copies of our own cars, by saying we're cheating would be like saying any real life drift car with an engine swap is 'cheating'.