I'm afraid guys... look at this clip!

[LucaT]

where is the "backflip" ... i have a picture of this in my mind...

I watched all the way to the end waiting to see it - I thought he might do a somersault over the line to win, but alas... no.

 

[AutoAki]

Hey AutoAki, have a look at this, shows a great reverse J turn at the end as well as some nice sliding around.

Well that backward part looked like it should! Nice donuts too at physics-wise. Looked like real.

 

[sumbrownkid]

I too would be very afraid of a person who can race like Schumacher backwards. Would not want to meet the person who did that online.

 

[terminator363]

Hey AutoAki, have a look at this, shows a great reverse J turn at the end as well as some nice sliding around.

Wow, those are some nice cone physics!

 

[LucaT]

So no one is afraid anymore?

 

[AutoAki]

So no one is afraid anymore?

Well I see this physics-bug might be only in Kart... now I'm afraid everyone who did not see that fail in there. Many guys without real-life driving experience at all here I see.

(just kidding)

 

[Pedal-Force]

Looks fine to me. The guy is just a good driver. It's not impossible to drive in reverse, just less stable than driving forwards.

You can tell he's having trouble staying on the track, he's all over the place in a few corners.

 

[AutoAki]

Looks fine to me. The guy is just a good driver. It's not impossible to drive in reverse, just less stable than driving forwards.

You can tell he's having trouble staying on the track, he's all over the place in a few corners.

No no no... there is something very wrong in that Karts behaving when driving backwards. It's like game just dont care about which tyres are steering ones, and which are powered, and that scared me. That another clip about BMW or DAF's shows how different it is to drive backwards and do even small steering-input.

 

[Stonemonkey]

I guess PD couldn't be bothered to put in marshalls to turn karts around or push them backwards if they get stuck, how lazy of them. So they gave the karts a reverse function which is basically the same ratio as forward. Big deal, not any bug in the physics whatsoever.

Turn the controller upside down, keep your finger on the look back button and drive it like a forklift.

 

[MidianGTX]

No no no... there is something very wrong in that Karts behaving when driving backwards. It's like game just dont care about which tyres are steering ones, and which are powered, and that scared me. That another clip about BMW or DAF's shows how different it is to drive backwards and do even small steering-input.

I can only assume you plan to spend a lot of your GT5 experience traveling backwards.

 

[AutoAki]

I can only assume you plan to spend a lot of your GT5 experience traveling backwards.

As much as I assume you to say GT5 is perfect in every way, even it would be re-packed GT1 with new graphics.

 

[MidianGTX]

As much as I assume you to say GT5 is perfect in every way, even it would be re-packed GT1 with new graphics.

You assume wrong. It's far from perfect, I'm just too grown up to pee my pants over little things like this.

 

[Johan]

Its not impossible to drive fast backwards. It's just harder, and the faster You go the harder it gets.
I have seen experts do all kinds of tricky stuff in reverse, including driving perfect racing lines in reverse while keeping the throttle just under cutoff. Now You could argue that a car is not very fast in reverse, but I believe these drivers could, and would learn how to master higher speeds if they were given the opportunity to try.
Driving backwards just as fast as You would facing the right way is another matter. But truthfully, I know I'm not several seconds faster than everyone else round a track. Yet in GT-universe, facing AI, that has been the norm for most of us, has it not?
A kart have quicker controls, and is inherently more delicate to control than the average car, but as most of us have the luxury of being, not a little, but a lot faster than the AI You can drift, brake too early, adjust the racing line several times per lap or even spin out and still manage to finish first in a two lap race. To me that seems like margin enough to learn how master a more instable vehicle, with backward controls, and still keep AI pace.
So. As it seems karts can be driven backwards in GT5:
Hats off for the kart artist.

 

[Andeekaii]

These cars had a Variomatic ... the DAF 44 .... it can go as fast forward as it can in reverse lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ipFApsFec

Enjoy !

(so nothing wrong with the physics ... great drivin')

That looks like so much fun!

 

[Scoop2004]

Due to the no differential and no inside driven wheel lift I highly doubt a kart would be driveable in reverse, it would suffer from mental understeer. This makes me wonder if the kart handling going forwards will be realistic, if its not 100% true to life it wont make me not play the game, but it will dissapoint me a smidge

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Due to the no differential and no inside driven wheel lift I highly doubt a kart would be driveable in reverse, it would suffer from mental understeer. This makes me wonder if the kart handling going forwards will be realistic, if its not 100% true to life it wont make me not play the game, but it will dissapoint me a smidge

Why would no differential effect reverse different than going forward when it comes to understeer?
There are no sim 100% true to life. Tire physics are extremely complex.

 

[Pedal-Force]

It probably would understeer like crazy since the rear (now front) wheels have to spin at the same speed. This would make it hard to turn.

However, a car in reverse has a lot of oversteer, so maybe these cancel somewhat and it becomes drivable.

 

[FooAtari]

Why would no differential effect reverse different than going forward when it comes to understeer?
There are no sim 100% true to life. Tire physics are extremely complex.

Because the wheels rotate at the same speed when turning. That's why a kart is setup so that the inside rear wheel lifts while going around tighter corners at speed, otherwise it would have to the corner at a much slower speed to hold it's line. Even if the revere gear gives the same speed as forward gear it would not be possible to race at the same speed in reverse because of the fixed diff. Skill doesn't enter the equation.

As the OP said, I agree there is something fundamentally wrong about how the kart moves in reverse. And it shouldn't have anything to do with having to model cars to drive in reverse. A correct and advanced physics engine should have realistic effects in both directions without separate modeling.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Because the wheels rotate at the same speed when turning. That's why a kart is setup so that the inside rear wheel lifts while going around tighter corners at speed, otherwise it would have to the corner at a much slower speed to hold it's line. Even if the revere gear gives the same speed as forward gear it would not be possible to race at the same speed in reverse because of the fixed diff. Skill doesn't enter the equation.

As the OP said, I agree there is something fundamentally wrong about how the kart moves in reverse. And it shouldn't have anything to do with having to model cars to drive in reverse. A correct and advanced physics engine should have realistic effects in both directions without separate modeling.

So if reverse was possible the inside rear wheel wouldn't lift if going backwards but will lift if going forward?

 

[Jason_B]

Who cares, it was fun to watch!

But my question is, what track was it? In game or created?

 

[Stonemonkey]

Because the wheels rotate at the same speed when turning. That's why a kart is setup so that the inside rear wheel lifts while going around tighter corners at speed, otherwise it would have to the corner at a much slower speed to hold it's line. Even if the revere gear gives the same speed as forward gear it would not be possible to race at the same speed in reverse because of the fixed diff. Skill doesn't enter the equation.

As the OP said, I agree there is something fundamentally wrong about how the kart moves in reverse. And it shouldn't have anything to do with having to model cars to drive in reverse. A correct and advanced physics engine should have realistic effects in both directions without separate modeling.

Why would the karts inside rear (now at the front) not lift when cornering if it had been set up to lift when cornering while going forwards?

I could see that turning while braking would be different with the weight shift forward onto the fixed axle.

 

[FooAtari]

So if reverse was possible the inside rear wheel wouldn't lift if going backwards but will lift if going forward?

I guess it could be made to, but wouldnt be any point. The front wheels (now the rear going in reverse) are not on a fix diff, so roll independantly, no need to raise a wheel off the ground when turning. So going backwards the fixed diff rear wheels become the front wheels and that is going to cause problems when turning as both wheels move at the same speed.

This article should help understand things

 

[Jason_B]

Why would the karts inside rear (now at the front) not lift when cornering if it had been set up to lift when cornering while going forwards?

I could see that turning while braking would be different with the weight shift forward onto the fixed axle.

Physics, the rear is a fixed axle while the front is on two spindles that are twisting and turning. Not to mention the rear is at 54-55" and the front around 46". Caster is applied to the front king pins only and it adjusts chassis roll to the back of the chassis by how much or how little the chassis grips getting into the corners.

Looking at his problems in cornering he's having the correct issues. It's just a glitch in programming. The engine only has 1 gear, think of it as direct drive, PD just didn't implement anything for not having reverse.

Once again, the guy did a great job 👍

 

[mr_VOLCANO]

Cant belive so many of you thinks that kart video look realistic....
Doesnt take much understanding of physics to see that is impossible IRL.

 

[Pedal-Force]

Cant belive so many of you thinks that kart video look realistic....
Doesnt take much understanding of physics to see that is impossible IRL.

Wow, what a well thought out and compelling argument you make. I totally see where you're coming from and I have to agree.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

I guess it could be made to, but wouldnt be any point. The front wheels (now the rear going in reverse) are not on a fix diff, so roll independantly, no need to raise a wheel off the ground when turning. So going backwards the fixed diff rear wheels become the front wheels and that is going to cause problems when turning as both wheels move at the same speed.

This article should help understand things

Thanks that's interesting. This would suggest GT5 Kart physics doesn't take in account Kart doesn't have a differential either.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Cant belive so many of you thinks that kart video look realistic....
Doesnt take much understanding of physics to see that is impossible IRL.

No doubt since Kart IRL doesn't have reverse.

 

[Pedal-Force]

No doubt since Kart IRL doesn't have reverse.

I think it's pretty clear that PD knew that but decided to put a reverse gear in to avoid people getting stuck.

Otherwise they have to either let you get out and pull the car back (strange looking and really slow), have a marshall come spin you (on Nurburgring? Yeah right), or do the Mario Kart put you in the middle of the road blinking kind of thing.

I think reverse was the simplest and best choice.

 

[FooAtari]

Thanks that's interesting. This would suggest GT5 Kart physics doesn't take in account Kart doesn't have a differential either.

That's quite likely.

I don't have a problem with the kart having a reverse gear, as above it's the best solution to problems of getting stuck. It's how the kart appears to handle when moving in reverse that's the problem. Like Zoom said, it's a bit like they have not accounted for a fixed rear diff.

 

[Stonemonkey]

Physics, the rear is a fixed axle while the front is on two spindles that are twisting and turning. Not to mention the rear is at 54-55" and the front around 46". Caster is applied to the front king pins only and it adjusts chassis roll to the back of the chassis by how much or how little the chassis grips getting into the corners.

Looking at his problems in cornering he's having the correct issues. It's just a glitch in programming. The engine only has 1 gear, think of it as direct drive, PD just didn't implement anything for not having reverse.

Once again, the guy did a great job 👍

I might have this wrong but the adjustments to caster make the front wheels cause roll when the steering is set to turn? The steering isn't on a flat plane?

If that's the case then the caster will lift the inside rear when the kart is going either forwards or backwards.

I don't think the reverse is a glitch though, what happens in karting IRL if you end up facing a wall?