Is anyone else disappointed with GT5?

[Uxi]

Ever try the online? You need to get involved in online racing with like-minded people. 2 or 3 hours of enjoyment can fly by.

This! Single player A-spec and B-spec should just be preparing you for the properly run online racing league.

Treat the special events, etc as candy.

Bad attitudes, that's what ruins experiences.

👍

 

[the Interceptor]

I understand that with the PS3, online gaming has become an integral part of the Gran Turismo experience. Nonetheless, the game offers the offline-mode A-Spec (and B-Spec), and there is no good reason to cut this mode short because there is online. It is perfectly acceptable to say that you don't care that A-Spec is not very substantial because you mainly play online, but it can hardly be an excuse.

Designing a purposeful A-Spec mode is not a matter of skills, time or manpower. I am sure that you could sit every person that has posted in this very thread down with a piece of paper and a pen, and they could, within one day, come up with a better-made A-Spec mode for GT5 than the one we have now.

 

[ac3h01e]

Stop just stop.
You're statements are all false and you know it.

I don't want to throw fuel on the fire here, but I hate when people do this. He clearly counters all your arguments and you, instead of a decent reply, just do this.

 

[Alex p.]

Designing a purposeful A-Spec mode is not a matter of skills, time or manpower. I am sure that you could sit every person that has posted in this very thread down with a piece of paper and a pen, and they could, within one day, come up with a better-made A-Spec mode for GT5 than the one we have now.

That is EXACTELY what comes to my mind when I think about the A-spec mode of GT5, thanks for this.

 

[Uxi]

Designing a purposeful A-Spec mode is not a matter of skills, time or manpower. I am sure that you could sit every person that has posted in this very thread down with a piece of paper and a pen, and they could, within one day, come up with a better-made A-Spec mode for GT5 than the one we have now.

Maybe, but 99.999% of the people in this thread can't get everything else that makes Gran Turismo, from the car models to the physics in an an engine that will propagate to the PS3. It's not static, though... maybe PD will improve on A-spec, maybe they won't, but the game doesn't really end when A-spec and B-spec are done. THAT is a first for GT.

More tracks, cars, and all that via DLC are almost certainly a given... whether they stay in special events or get reworked into A-spec should be interesting to see, though.

 

[niky]

While I though that this would be an interesting thread, seeing GT5 from the point of view of an older player, it seems to be degenerating into a general "Disappointed with GT5" thread. Will merge.

And to everyone: if you think a thread isn't appropriate, "waaaahmbulance" posts aren't a very constructive way of responding. There is always the "report" button. I'm sick of the meta-whining. If you don't like whining, don't whine about it.

 

[Sselecta]

At this point, I'm glad I never bought GT5. I have been playing it at a friends place quite a lot since it's realse and together completed nearly half of the game by now. Pretty much every aspect of this game bores me. There's nothing exciting, ''innovating'' or fun. Not even the wheel does it for me.

Perhaps another day. Till then, I'll keep myself busy with Dirt2 and the retards online.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

I understand that with the PS3, online gaming has become an integral part of the Gran Turismo experience. Nonetheless, the game offers the offline-mode A-Spec (and B-Spec), and there is no good reason to cut this mode short because there is online. It is perfectly acceptable to say that you don't care that A-Spec is not very substantial because you mainly play online, but it can hardly be an excuse.

Designing a purposeful A-Spec mode is not a matter of skills, time or manpower. I am sure that you could sit every person that has posted in this very thread down with a piece of paper and a pen, and they could, within one day, come up with a better-made A-Spec mode for GT5 than the one we have now.

I kind of wish that was true, but as of now, online is just as unfinished as everything else in the game.

 

[JGW]

Overall, I like this game and will keep it. PD promised patches, so we'll see where that goes. I have my gripes about it, as do others, and certainly think some things could have been done better.

It's a solid release, but I think it was a bit over-hyped. Like everyone else, I wanted it released sooner than later, but now that it is here, another 6 months in the studio may have been the better option.

 

[Alex p.]

Like everyone else, I wanted it released sooner than later, but now that it is here, another 6 months in the studio may have been the better option.

Not too sure about that here. Seriously think about it, the ONLY thing that justified their almost 6 year development are the premium cars, everyhing else in my eyes could have been developed in 3 years, looking back at earlier iterations of the series. They simply lost track of how to develop a decent GT, they lost themselfes in changing too much, making a lot worse than it was.

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

Not too sure about that here. Seriously think about it, the ONLY thing that justified their almost 6 year development are the premium cars, everyhing else in my eyes could have been developed in 3 years, looking back at earlier iterations of the series. They simply lost track of how to develop a decent GT, they lost themselfes in changing too much, making a lot worse than it was.

Too much focus on premiums. I mean it takes what, 6 months to make a car they say? Well I ask why? Why aim for something so ridiculously stupid that everything else will suffer because of it. Graphics are not everything. And the irony of the premium car's graphics is that because of it, the overall car graphics are lower given that they had to import PS3 graphics to make up the difference.

 

[Devedander]

Overall, I like this game and will keep it. PD promised patches, so we'll see where that goes. I have my gripes about it, as do others, and certainly think some things could have been done better.

It's a solid release, but I think it was a bit over-hyped. Like everyone else, I wanted it released sooner than later, but now that it is here, another 6 months in the studio may have been the better option.

I personally feel we had a few "another 6 months in the studio" over GT5's development cycle... ultimately I think PD shot themselves in the foot the moment they decided to shoot for the moon.

One major problem with super long dev cycles is that no matter how lofty your goals originally, over time it gets passed up...

A few years in, you will find your competition using new tricks and new game types that you can't put in because it means going back to the drawing board so late in the game...

I think GT5 suffered from this in a lot of ways... what we got might have seemed untouchable 5 years ago, but honestly a lot of progress has been made around GT that dulled much of the accomplishments.

 

[zorrofox]

I understand that with the PS3, online gaming has become an integral part of the Gran Turismo experience. Nonetheless, the game offers the offline-mode A-Spec (and B-Spec), and there is no good reason to cut this mode short because there is online. It is perfectly acceptable to say that you don't care that A-Spec is not very substantial because you mainly play online, but it can hardly be an excuse.

Designing a purposeful A-Spec mode is not a matter of skills, time or manpower. I am sure that you could sit every person that has posted in this very thread down with a piece of paper and a pen, and they could, within one day, come up with a better-made A-Spec mode for GT5 than the one we have now.

What he said. Except, online's all very well if you have a fast enough connection to support it, but I don't. A-spec has to work for me - and it doesn't. I won't even bother talking about B-spec, lol. Having said all this, they might as well have just shipped this game with only The Green Hell because that's where I always am. It's worth the admission price on it's own.

 

[TJ31]

Well i gotta say i've changed my opinion after playing for more, than 2 - 3 days.
Sadly, but this is 1st "normal" GT (GTPSP and all Prologues/Concepts/etc doesnt counts) where i don't have anything fun to do after like a 100 hours of gameplay, which took me about a month.

A-Spec (and everything where you need to actually play):

Special events are done mostly, licenses too, a-spec done everything, except FGT and endurance races. Will do FGT and some early endurances in some future tho, but won't even try any of 9 hours + ones.
Why i won't bother with 100%? Because 24 hour races are just a joke, no one driving 24 hours alone in the real life, so why the "real" driving sim is expecting me to do that? So i won't bother with getting the last few golds in licenses or special events, since i won't be able to get 100% anyway.

There's just nothing to do, 45 "normal" events in A-Spec, average races in each event is 3. Average race has 5 laps. Average race is easy as i don't know what. The only hard (by hard i mean it was actually a small challenge and (or) i didn't won from 1st try and with 1st car i've tried and (or) i had to get some better car than i had) that i can remember are: historic cup, some championship with "dream cars" like Mazda 797B etc and even tho i didn't tried it yet, i'll add FGT championship too.
That's it, everything else was too easy, i don't even think i've tuned any car to win those races. Gotta say tho, that are those seasonal events part 2 was fun to do (except nascar, it was easy and not fun, because nascar on the ring... that's just not right -.- ).

B-Spec:
It's a joke. It's everything, but not a game. Some may say that you need to give commands (wow, whole 4) to your driver, but he will win without that too (people who are grinding 24h endurance events in b-spec while they are sleeping/working have proved it).
Why would i watch how cloned AIs with different names (including Bob ) are racing, when i can actually play on PS3? You know, i don't have limitless time to play and when i get a few free hours that i can spend on a game, i actually want to play the game (GT5 or any other game, that's doesnt matter).
Maybe i would done it after some time, but it doesn't even has a 2x/4x rewind function. Yeah, it's so fun to watch... especially since it has 2x (and i heard that later it will be 3x, not sure tho) ammount of laps for the every race.

Online:
The ammount of idiots and rams, who thinks that is another NFS game is just too high. And i don't like playing to the racing games online anyway, that maybe a nice addition to a GT game if you love it, but that's not why me (and i think that the most of people who bought it) got the game. I got it for GT mode obviously.


Collecting cars and grinding:

Because there's such a low ammount of races (even with b-spec ones) there's no need to get most of the cars at all. Especially that goes to the old cars. Yeah, you can buy it, but will you use it anywhere (maybe online tho) ?
The 2nd problem is.. you can win a car only once. That leaves us with grinding the same events (ovals or endurance ones for some people).
GT4 had a better system i think. Of course there were an ultimate grinding event with max money for min time, but still, if you've decided to do some long and hard championship, then you would have got some good money in the end.
In GT5 if you wanna grind, then... read above. If you'll want to re-do some early race or even dream cars championship (or how it's called... lvl 24 one), you'll get nothing. Early races is a like 10k credits and 1k exp, lvl 24 one gives more, but if compare it to oval grinding, it's still not good. So no bonuses for doing hard races.
And there's no point of leveling after lvl 30, unless you want to race in 24hr races. I would grind (not so fast, because i don't have enough time, but still) if i had something to grind for. Now it's all the same, 30, 35, 39, just digits.

Final thoughts...

I still love GT5 and i even don't care about such things as standard cars or bad shadows or lack of <insert car model here>. I'm not that hardcore gamer or car lover, so that's fine, but i just don't know what to do in GT5 now.
Don't really remember how many total races were in GT4, but i got a feeling like a 10 times more and i could actually play to each one (only used b-spec there for the long endurance ones, since it had rewind button).

I hope PD will keep adding 5 new events every now and then, but even in 1 year there still won't be that much races as it were in GT4 by default. Let's not forget about those people who don't have internet on PS3 (or just internet at all), they will stuck with default events, not so nice...
Also i would like to hope that GT6 will be released on PS3, because if not, then 90% of the new 4 - 6 yeard development cycle will be spent on graphical/physical engines and new car models, instead of the game content.

Oh and it took about 1 year to reach the point " what to do now" in GT4, 12x faster in GT5.
So 3 days ago i've tried that birthday glitch for the 1st time ever. It'll keep me busy for the 2 - 3 more days, but that's not that fun, i would rather won those cars... and there's no place to use them. >.<

So yeah, i'm a bit disappointed with GT5, but not that much so i would say that the whole series just died tho. =)

 

[the Interceptor]

Too much focus on premiums. I mean it takes what, 6 months to make a car they say? Well I ask why? Why aim for something so ridiculously stupid that everything else will suffer because of it. Graphics are not everything. And the irony of the premium car's graphics is that because of it, the overall car graphics are lower given that they had to import PS3 graphics to make up the difference.

Thank you for making this very important point!

One can argue that GT5 might have its flaws because it was an enormous task to achieve, which is absolutely correct. However, a project like this needs proper planning. Kazunori said in an interview with UK's official Play Station magazine that “The level of precision we’ve achieved [in GT5] is actually more suited to the next generation of machines. The detail that goes into a premium model [has] gone beyond the level of the current PlayStation.”.

Now, this can be understood in several ways. On the one hand, you can congratulate PD for putting this extreme amount of detail into the premium cars on the PS3. On the other hand, it says that they probably got carried away a little when designing these cars. And this is a lack of project management. When you plan a project as huge as this, you set yourself a time frame, you gather the things you would like to do, you check whether these things can be done in the time and with the available resources. What PD did was design parts of the game in unparalleled precision to then just carry on and see where it takes them.

Interestingly, this is not unlike the long and complex development of the Bugatti Veyron. Remember how its release date was pushed back again and again because of several technical problems which emerged during development? This happened because the chairman of the VAG group at the time, Ferdinand Piech, insisted that the Veyron would have to fulfil certain specs (16cyl engine, around 1000hp, 400+ kph, looks like the prototypes) which the engineers then had to meet. That turned out to be extremely difficult, because the shape of the prototypes was not optimized for such high speeds, and the engineers had to clear a lot of hurdles in order to put the Veyron on the road with these figures.

If you look at Gran Turismo, you understand one day that this is Kazunoris child. He has this vision of the perfect driving simulation in his head, and he invests an incredible amount of time into the idea. This however means that now and then, decisions will be met on the basis of desperately wanting something specific, and not based on a review of viability. Premium cars are an example.

 

[Khoin]

Thank you for making this very important point!

One can argue that GT5 might have its flaws because it was an enormous task to achieve, which is absolutely correct. However, a project like this needs proper planning. Kazunori said in an interview with UK's official Play Station magazine that “The level of precision we’ve achieved [in GT5] is actually more suited to the next generation of machines. The detail that goes into a premium model [has] gone beyond the level of the current PlayStation.”.

Now, this can be understood in several ways. On the one hand, you can congratulate PD for putting this extreme amount of detail into the premium cars on the PS3. On the other hand, it says that they probably got carried away a little when designing these cars. And this is a lack of project management. When you plan a project as huge as this, you set yourself a time frame, you gather the things you would like to do, you check whether these things can be done in the time and with the available resources. What PD did was design parts of the game in unparalleled precision to then just carry on and see where it takes them.

Interestingly, this is not unlike the long and complex development of the Bugatti Veyron. Remember how its release date was pushed back again and again because of several technical problems which emerged during development? This happened because the chairman of the VAG group at the time, Ferdinand Piech, insisted that the Veyron would have to fulfil certain specs (16cyl engine, around 1000hp, 400+ kph, looks like the prototypes) which the engineers then had to meet. That turned out to be extremely difficult, because the shape of the prototypes was not optimized for such high speeds, and the engineers had to clear a lot of hurdles in order to put the Veyron on the road with these figures.

If you look at Gran Turismo, you understand one day that this is Kazunoris child. He has this vision of the perfect driving simulation in his head, and he invests an incredible amount of time into the idea. This however means that now and then, decisions will be met on the basis of desperately wanting something specific, and not based on a review of viability. Premium cars are an example.

Difference is though, that with the Veyron, they pulled it off. Afaik, all the demands Piech made were met, and the result is an amazing car, or as Clarkson put it, a "concorde moment". Might not be your cup of tea, but there's no denying that it's miles ahead of anything comparable.

With GT5 it's a bit different, while the game has some amazing features, it also has some obvious flaws.

Of course, VW is losing money on each Veyron they sell, whereas PD will earn a lot with GT5. For the comparison to be correct, PD would've had to make all the cars premium, even if it meant hiring five times the programmers and therefore losing money on the whole project.

I keep reading that Kaz is supposedly a perfectionist, but I'm not so sure... While, for instance, the level of detail in the premium cars is simply staggering, a true perfectionist would not accept that this only aplies to a fifth of the cars in game. A true perfectionist would also not accept some of the other shortcomings in this game. Rather, he would design the game in such a way that every tiny little bit of it was "perfect", where perfect is not "as shiney as humanly possible" but "the best possible within reason".

I think Kaz isn't a perfectionist, he is an idealist, striving for an ideal, even if it means sacrificing other things for it. He'd rather have 200 cars that are prettier than the PS3 can even show off, combined with 800 that are far behind what would be possible, then 1000 cars that are on the limit, or as near as makes no difference, of what the PS3 is capable of. In this, the comparison with Piech is probably correct, however, Piech had the means, Kaz didn't.

Still, there's a lot of great stuff in GT5 and we have him to thank for that. I think the game would've probably been better if he'd been a bit more of a realist, or even a perfectionist, though.

 

[CaliBoy1990]

A little bit..........some of the license test portions are a little too challenging, no Max Speed Tests + Test Course, not enough classic American cars, too many Skylines{don't get me wrong, I like GT-Rs.}, and you can't earn any more money on the Special Events once you've Golded them all.

But other than that, not really.

 

[Nielsen]

I gave the game an 8/10 after just a few days of playing and about 40 days later that is still how I would grade it. I'm satisfied with a lot of things while some other but less important things just remain as a big questionmark inside my head.

I'm disappointed that the game doesn't have permanent leaderboards like Prologue had as it was my favourite feature to test myself against the best in every car on every track. Hopefully it will be added soon. Otherwise I'm very pleased with the things I had high expectations for before getting the game.

 

[the Interceptor]

Difference is though, that with the Veyron, they pulled it off.

That's true. And I'm sure that if you had given PD a few more years, GT5 would be close to perfection as well. Only problem being that almost noone would be willing to wait that long.

I keep reading that Kaz is supposedly a perfectionist, but I'm not so sure...

I do believe he is a perfectionist, but at the same time I think that a lot of people understand the term "perfectionist" too literally. A perfectionist doesn't distinguish himself through only producing perfect results. Ironically, quite the contrary is the case. A perfectionist loses himself (and the bigger picture) by fiddling with the tiniest details all the time. Perfectionists can be extremely valuable within a project, but they need an opposing force in form of a controlling body, say a person. Said person can then channel the efforts of the perfectionist and make sure his unusual dedication is being applied at the right positions with the right amounts.

As I see the situation, Kaz is such a perfectionist, but he works without a controlling body. This means that some of the things he's behind are as good as it gets, but the overall product lacks refinement. Also, time management is not the thing of a perfectionist, which also shows at PD.

 

[ShaneG]

At first, I was really baffled by how it took 6 years to come up with what we have now,
I was expecting a GT1-->GT2 type evolution from GT4-->GT5,
but as long as they release the proper updates to correct the main problems listed here,
I'll reserve my disappointment for something that deserves it.
It's clear that a lot of work went into this product, it's just a little odd that so many
things were left out, while others were included, but only half realized.

My main dread at this point though, is that GT will head into the world of paid for DLC.
I think that will ruin the series for myself, and maybe a few others.
To intentionally leave out content, in order to make a few extra bucks by selling it as DLC later would suck, in my opinion.
I don't know about everyone else, but just shelling out $60 for a game is hard enough right now in the current economy.
Limiting initial content, for the purpose of charging players to keep it interesting, seems to be how most games are now.



As a whole, it's half of what I expected, and a quarter of what I wanted... so far.

 

[Elstro]

I got GT4 for my 22nd birthday and after almost 2 months I've mostly been impressed with it. However, here's my say on the few things that I wasn't too happy with:

Car Content: Seriously guys, stop whinging about "too many crap slow cars" etc etc. One of the USPs of the whole GT series is the mixed bag of cars (which GT3 didnt have, hence I didnt buy it)...what other racing game could you have the opportunity to recreate the Love Bug and smoke Lambos and Ferraris in a '49 VW Beetle? Or pit a Citroen 2CV against Accord Type Rs? If you cannot stand the slow cars, don't buy them and stick with your Zondas and Veyrons. Or maybe Burnout is more your style.

I do think it was a bit of a copout that the majority of the content was a straight GT4 import, and I'd like to have seen more representation of marques like MG, Rover etc as opposed to a million MX5s and GTRs, but you can't have everything. My car isn't (and never has been) in the game, didn't put me off playing it. Also, some cars such as the XKE and DeLorean, which IIRC were tough (for me) to obtain in GT4, I now got a chance to try out. You lot are a tough crowd to please.

Standards Vs Premiums: I do think more (or at least more variety of) cars should have been premium, but I mainly drive from "bumper-cam" anyway so it doesn't bother me too much.

My only Standard gripe is the much-repeated one - (I wish you could change the rims, and the choice of wheels for premiums is rather limited) - Especially after the 'used wheels' feature from GT4 - I remember running a Zonda with the steel wheels off a Mk1 Golf GTI, VW Bora with the wheels off a 787B, amongst other weird combos because I was so impressed with this feature.

A-Spec & B-Spec: I think it's rather annoying having to build up B-Spec Bob's career (my Bob is utterly imcompetent, I've given up on it) rather than the B-Spec option from GT4. Perhaps a few more A-Spec races wouldn't go amiss.

Inclusion of NASCAR and F1: I may get shot for this, but why on earth did they bring these into the GT franchise? When there's a ton of dedicated games for each of these series out there?!

Lack Of Tracks: I have to agree that there could be room for more tracks there - I miss Montegi (or rather its dusky setting - great for Photomode), El Capitan, the old-style Fuiji Layouts from GT4.

Licences = Irrelevant: I personally prefer the "level" method because not everyone can be bothered to sit and do licence tests.

Prize Cars: I do find it irritating that you can only win them once (I have a lot of unused machinery in my delivery box and garage) but I suppose it encourages you to try out more races rather than just the same old "cash cows" - I was so guilty of this in GT4.

To sum up, I don't feel GT5 is an enormous improvement over GT4, but as long as there's a decent variety of cars and races there, I'm happy.

 

[Mac K]

I'm not disappointed, I think the only reason a lot of people are disappointed are because everyone expected something extraordinary since the game was being made for a very long period of time..

 

[panjandrum]

I'm not disappointed, I think the only reason a lot of people are disappointed are because everyone expected something extraordinary since the game was being made for a very long period of time..

Well, that is certainly part of it. But I think a lot of us are disappointed because it is so much worse than GT4 at so many things. There is also a glaring lack of quality control throughout the product. It really does feel very much like the obsession with the premium cars ruled over everything. We ended up with a product that does indeed have some stunningly impressive premium cars, amazing lighting on some tracks, fantastic weather effects on some tracks, etc. etc. But in the end the sheer number of oversights, flaws, and omissions completely overshadow the good points. I keep hanging around here hoping there will be good news regarding GT5 and some updates, but at this point I'm 100% bored-to-death with it. That's after a few months of play. But I can go back to GT4 every day and still have a great time (or go to Dirt 2, or rFactor, or or or or...).

I also feel that PD fell into the same trap that most of the video-game industry fell into about 10 years ago: the "graphics are everything" trap. Then they failed to leave enough time to actually create a good game. Slapping a (quite flawed) online mode on top of a poorly made game doesn't fix the fundamental issues. It does some things beautifully, I expect I'll probably put it in from time to time to run the ring in something I like driving, but that's about it. It just isn't good enough for much else, and after only a few months I just can't find anything enjoyable to do with it. Maybe if online racing were fixed... but there are so many obstacles to overcome there that I don't feel we can hope that it will be fixed.

I'm not sure PD or Sony understand quite how much they've let us down with this one. But as an example, out of my racing group of 8 GT4 racing/LAN friends, 6 waited for GT5's final release to decide on whether or not to finally buy a PS3. Of those 6, not one of them is going to buy a PS3. The 2 of us that are using GT5 at all are doing so because we already had a PS3....

 

[jonboy1066]

It just isn't good enough

Although I can't say I agree with everything you've said, I think your sentence above is pretty much spot on.

Although I'm enjoying and playing GT5 a lot at the moment, it's not the revellation that I expected it to be...by a long way.

As a racing Game F1 2010 is better

As an offline car culture game FM3 is better

Online hosting options and damage GT5 is the best at the moment

From the looks and sounds of it for striking a happy medium between a car culture semi collector game and a propper racing game Shift Unleashed is looking like it'll be far better than FM and GT put together...but I will reserve judgement on that as Shift was such a major let down.

The disappointment of FM3 and now the disappointment of GT5 has now taught me that I think I've outgrown these sort of car culture games like FM and GT are all well and good but they are beginning to focus on too many things that get in the way of what I want !RACING!

I'll not be getting FM4 or GT6 but thankfully with the very high possibility of SimBin releasing GTR3 on the Consoles, Codies Keeping F1 until at least 2012 and maybe...just maybe.......Shift 2 turning out to be up to all of the hype I'll not miss these sort of games.

 

[calan_svc]

Two words (ehhh... three words):

Massive project creep.

 

[Destinkeys]

I'm not disappointed, I think the only reason a lot of people are disappointed are because everyone expected something extraordinary since the game was being made for a very long period of time..

Not quite true, at least for me. I am disappointed, not because it failed to be light years better than GT4, but because it failed to even be as GOOD as GT4.

Car and lighting detail doesn't compensate for a poorly designed GAME.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Not quite true, at least for me. I am disappointed, not because it failed to be light years better than GT4, but because it failed to even be as GOOD as GT4.

Car and lighting detail doesn't compensate for a poorly designed GAME.

Oh yea! 👍

 

[Evil-Cybrosis]

The only things I don't like about the game are:

*Cape-Ring
*The number of B-Spec races
*The unreliability of online racing from time to time (i.e. startline glitches etc).

Other than that I'm pretty happy with it. I could sit here and pick out just as many things I didn't like about the other GT games (maybe more) so I still believe that it was money well spent

 

[BTBAM]

Licences = Irrelevant: I personally prefer the "level" method because not everyone can be bothered to sit and do licence tests.

Are you serious?
You think getting through license tests which take very little of your time (i'd say you can bronze all licenses in under 3h combined) is worse than running multiple endurance (in B-spec it's 12 24h races from lvl35 to 40) races in order to get to the next race?
Yeah that is clearly less boring

This game managed to be byfar the worst GT game ever. There is not one competetitive race in the whole game where you all start from the same line with similar cars and power, the A.I might be the biggest fail of all.
All in all every change they made was for the worse from GT4, it's pretty unreal when you think about it.

 

[JGW]

All in all every change they made was for the worse from GT4, it's pretty unreal when you think about it.

I agree with this completely.

Now that I understand DLC will be on a pay basis, I think the king may be dead.

I have to wonder if perhaps PD fell into a "everything we do is great" mode and really just lost their focus.

I don't believe anyone can deny that there were boatloads of bad decisions made in GT5.