Is everything just faster?

[fporto_br]

Driving in cockpit view is so strange now... the wheel used to copy quickly your reactions to inputs on the analog stick, but now it feels a lot slower. Even the act of centering the wheels while correcting a drift now seems to take an eternity.

So strange...

 

[DGXR]

BTW: F1 2017 is like 2-4 seconds faster than F1 2016... are F1 2017 cars easier to drive?! NOPE...

Excuse me...
The Formula 1 rules changed dramatically in 2017. The cars have a wider track, the tires are wider (bigger contact patch) plus more downforce in the aero package. Result? The cars are considerably faster this year and a number of track records were broken around the world.

Please read up on these links:
http://f1.wikia.com/wiki/Lap_Record
https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/inside-f1/rules-regs/2017-season-changes.html

It specifically says that lap times are expected to drop by 3-5 seconds due to the rules changes. So you may be correct that the F1 cars are not "easier to drive," It's very possible since the lateral Gs were already extreme and now have been pushed even farther, maybe that would make the cars harder to drive. I'm not a F1 driver so I don't know. But the cars certainly are faster this year, and should be faster in any decent simulation.

 

[Inzyman]

To be honest I'll agree that games in general are becoming easier in order to appease new gamers or pull more casual gamers into games previously only played by enthusiasts. But, I still think that driving in this game should stay challenging. I would argue and say that driving in Project Cars 2 is a lot more challenging than here, but that's because PC2 is targeted more towards steering wheel set-ups rather than controller.
I hope PD keeps this game challenging enough for people like us who want more of a challenge.

Absolutely but just because the update has apparently improved handling, unless your completing laps in Alien time there is always a challenge. I have PC2 as well, drive with a Thrustmaster T300RS and yes very bloody challenging, chasing seconds over there, GT Sport easier and chasing tenth's but the challenge is the same.

I'm feeling slightly frustrated because it seems I'm the only one having a negative experience with the new handling system.

Reading the forum feedback, it seems this new handling system is much forgiving while before it was hard and punishing. I'm experiencing the exact opposite.
I enjoyed the previous handling, if anything, I found it to be so much easier. Now however, it's incredibly difficult to drive. Throttle feels like an on/off switch, braking distance have increased, and occasionally my wheel becomes loose, having now to turn 90 degrees on corners that rarely need a 45 degree angle.

Feeling the same, my experience though, the cars actually feel better and easier to drive so my happy face is on, then I see my times are slower by 1 - 2 seconds. WTF.....

 

[ynot]

AC has the best physics of any sim I've played, and the cars in that are definitely "easier" to drive than they were in GTsport. It's not so much down to the actual handling physics (weight transfer, downforce all that jazz) but down to the tyre model. The tyre models even for racing tyres were not good in GTsport before this up date.
People really need to stop thinking difficult equals realistic.
The Stig (Ben Collins) said if driving was as difficult in real life as it was in sims he'd have been dead a long time ago.
My lap times in the same cars in AC are a lot quicker than they are in GTsport, no one ever accused AC of being easy.

Not trying to argue with you here but just wanted to say I think Assetto Corsa is the worst driving game I have played. Bought the digital version so I could not even take it back. It just goes to show you how difficult it is to please so many different people. Very hard to make a game, movie, or even lunch that will please everyone.

 

[DesertPenguin]

They didn't adjust racing tires at all, just sports?

 

[ststav01]

I hate those fast Meganes Just finished Manufacturers on Dragon Trail and the first guy was constantly hitting 1.45 while the rest of us were on 1.46-7s - I'm not saying that this is due to car (the guy definitely had skills) but compared to my Cayman the Renault seems really really fast - not ranting, just saying - the race was really great everyone had a blue S at the end - I did just one stupid mistake missing the right racing line on the chicane and that cost me a few places

 

[CJammer883]

I think this aspect of the new update is a load of you know what. I'm turning laps 1-2 seconds faster than I previously was on every track. All this was was an attempt to bridge the gap between the people who have put in the time to become a better driver and the people who don't and complain that the game is too hard. But, I mean was that even an issue? Were people complaining about the game being too difficult? This is just out of left field to me and has taken out a lot of the fun I was having with this game. The cars are wayyyyy to easy to drive now IMO, especially Gr3 which is what I primarily race.

 

[danardif1]

I think this aspect of the new update is a load of you know what. I'm turning laps 1-2 seconds faster than I previously was on every track. All this was was an attempt to bridge the gap between the people who have put in the time to become a better driver and the people who don't and complain that the game is too hard. But, I mean was that even an issue? Were people complaining about the game being too difficult? This is just out of left field to me and has taken out a lot of the fun I was having with this game. The cars are wayyyyy to easy to drive now IMO, especially Gr3 which is what I primarily race.

From my quick session this afternoon, they might drive more 'easily' but for me they drive more realistically. There is less of the skating effect the tyres used to give when in low speed corners, and the tendency for the rear to snap out for lots of cars has gone, replaced by a feeling that you can actually use the throttle now, rather than breathe on it until you have the car absolutely straight.

 

[CJammer883]

From my quick session this afternoon, they might drive more 'easily' but for me they drive more realistically. There is less of the skating effect the tyres used to give when in low speed corners, and the tendency for the rear to snap out for lots of cars has gone, replaced by a feeling that you can actually use the throttle now, rather than breathe on it until you have the car absolutely straight.

But you should not just be able to go full throttle in 2nd gear coming out of a corner in a 600+ hp race car. That's where the term "throttle control" came from and is a big aspect of what seperates good drivers and great drivers professionally and on games like this. I actually thought the way it was before was far more realistic than it is now.

 

[TenderLoins]

I think this aspect of the new update is a load of you know what. I'm turning laps 1-2 seconds faster than I previously was on every track. All this was was an attempt to bridge the gap between the people who have put in the time to become a better driver and the people who don't and complain that the game is too hard. But, I mean was that even an issue? Were people complaining about the game being too difficult? This is just out of left field to me and has taken out a lot of the fun I was having with this game. The cars are wayyyyy to easy to drive now IMO, especially Gr3 which is what I primarily race.

If you’re turning laps 1-2 seconds faster just because of thr update, the same will apply to anyone else. I don’t see how it’s going to bridge the skill gap at all.

 

[danardif1]

But you should not just be able to go full throttle in 2nd gear coming out of a corner in a 600+ hp race car. That's where the term "throttle control" came from and is a big aspect of what seperates good drivers and great drivers professionally and on games like this. I actually thought the way it was before was far more realistic than it is now.

Depends on the corner. Watch some GT3 footage and you'll see just how early they can get fully onto the throttle.
GT's tyre model is very weak but this is a step in the right direction.

 

[meck_rb7]

From my quick session this afternoon, they might drive more 'easily' but for me they drive more realistically. There is less of the skating effect the tyres used to give when in low speed corners, and the tendency for the rear to snap out for lots of cars has gone, replaced by a feeling that you can actually use the throttle now, rather than breathe on it until you have the car absolutely straight.

I agree, accept when braking.. no feeling what so ever... you used to brake in a straight line for best braking and you could feel the car wobble. You could feel the brake point... now when i apply the brakes i FEEL nothing....

 

[CJammer883]

If you’re turning laps 1-2 seconds faster just because of thr update, the same will apply to anyone else. I don’t see how it’s going to bridge the skill gap at all.

because there is now less skill involved in turning a really fast lap time

 

[danardif1]

I agree, accept when braking.. no feeling what so ever... you used to brake in a straight line for best braking and you could feel the car wobble. You could feel the brake point... now when i apply the brakes i FEEL nothing....

To be honest I don't like the ABS system and way cars brake in this game at all, either before the update or after. Maybe with more time I'll see if the new one is any better or worse for me, but I didn't feel that much difference today...

 

[TenderLoins]

because there is now less skill involved in turning a really fast lap time

But everyone gets the same update. The guys already posting faster times will improve their times also.

 

[CJammer883]

GT's tyre model is very weak but this is a step in the right direction.

Are you suggesting that they add even more grip?

But everyone gets the same update. The guys already posting faster times will improve their times also.

You're not understanding what I am saying. I'm sure the fast times will be even faster than they were before, the difference now is that there is gonna be a higher percentage of people now that are capable of running similar lap times because they are easier to drive. Basically people that couldn't quite keep up with someone before this update IMO is going to have an easier time keeping up with them after.

 

[TenderLoins]

You're not understanding what I am saying. I'm sure the fast times will be even faster than they were before, the difference now is that there is gonna be a higher percentage of people now that are capable of running similar lap times because they are easier to drive. Basically people that couldn't quite keep up with someone before this update IMO is going to have an easier time keeping up with them after.

I’m still failing to see any logic to your assumptions.

 

[danardif1]

because there is now less skill involved in turning a really fast lap time

In AC and PCars, it is possible for a moderately skilled driver to achieve laptimes somewhat close to the real life ones. This shows that as long as you get the inputs reasonably correct (and there's a reason why we're playing at home on a PS4 and not in Blancpain etc), the car will behave in a manner that matches its real life version. GT Sport has been nowhere near as close as these two titles to this so far, but this update appears to bring it a little bit closer. Massive work needs doing on the tyre model, brakes and even how downforce works to bring it up to those levels, but I don't think that's their ambition. What I find very strange about the tyre model is that they feel like they are rock solid and there is no scope for adjusting pressures etc, but in race replays there is visual deformation of the tyre that doesn't seem to be translating into the driving experience.

 

[Inzyman]

I hate those fast Meganes Just finished Manufacturers on Dragon Trail and the first guy was constantly hitting 1.45 while the rest of us were on 1.46-7s - I'm not saying that this is due to car (the guy definitely had skills) but compared to my Cayman the Renault seems really really fast - not ranting, just saying - the race was really great everyone had a blue S at the end - I did just one stupid mistake missing the right racing line on the chicane and that cost me a few places

They a little rocket ships, used one at Interlagos and no one got near me as soon as the track opened up, not quite the handling of the beetle but certainly a weapon in the right hands!!

 

[GTWelsh]

In AC and PCars, it is possible for a moderately skilled driver to achieve laptimes somewhat close to the real life ones. This shows that as long as you get the inputs reasonably correct (and there's a reason why we're playing at home on a PS4 and not in Blancpain etc), the car will behave in a manner that matches its real life version. GT Sport has been nowhere near as close as these two titles to this so far, but this update appears to bring it a little bit closer. Massive work needs doing on the tyre model, brakes and even how downforce works to bring it up to those levels, but I don't think that's their ambition. What I find very strange about the tyre model is that they feel like they are rock solid and there is no scope for adjusting pressures etc, but in race replays there is visual deformation of the tyre that doesn't seem to be translating into the driving experience.

You can really separate tyre flex from suspension simulation? I can't, I'm not saying you can't but can you elaborate?

IRL on a bike on track lower pressures feel slower to turn - in, but give more grip if you're not too low on the pressures. Higher make it overly sharp and there is less grip / rear tyre kills itself.

I couldn't tell you about any flex involved at all.

This probably doesn't translate into car world, but just want to elaborate on my end

 

[Inzyman]

because there is now less skill involved in turning a really fast lap time

You will get to that point like we all do and squeezing the extra tenth will be just as hard as it always was. As long as it's a level playing field. I don't think the goal of PD is to get as close to the real thing as possible, I would go so far as to say their target market is not even the same as games like PC2. You need to Run PC2 if you want to head down that total realism track, they are 2 very different games when you get down to the finer points.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Are you suggesting that they add even more grip?

You're not understanding what I am saying. I'm sure the fast times will be even faster than they were before, the difference now is that there is gonna be a higher percentage of people now that are capable of running similar lap times because they are easier to drive. Basically people that couldn't quite keep up with someone before this update IMO is going to have an easier time keeping up with them after.

If that was the case then people would be a lot closer in laptimes with RS tires and I've never found that to be the case in 5 years of racing online in GT5/6. The skill gap remains constant no matter the tire compound or car. In other words the limits of the car increase but your ability to exploit them doesn't change.

 

[CJammer883]

I’m still failing to see any logic to your assumptions.

It's not a hard concept to understand. Cars that are easier to drive makes it easier for less skilled drivers to turn faster lap times.

In AC and PCars, it is possible for a moderately skilled driver to achieve laptimes somewhat close to the real life ones. This shows that as long as you get the inputs reasonably correct (and there's a reason why we're playing at home on a PS4 and not in Blancpain etc), the car will behave in a manner that matches its real life version. GT Sport has been nowhere near as close as these two titles to this so far, but this update appears to bring it a little bit closer. Massive work needs doing on the tyre model, brakes and even how downforce works to bring it up to those levels, but I don't think that's their ambition. What I find very strange about the tyre model is that they feel like they are rock solid and there is no scope for adjusting pressures etc, but in race replays there is visual deformation of the tyre that doesn't seem to be translating into the driving experience.

I'm really not at all concerned about running similar lap times to real life. There are a lot of variables that go into making that an accurate assessment tool in determining how real or not real a racing game is. The answer is not to just add grip until we run similar lap times to real life, which seems to be what you're advocating for unless I'm misunderstanding you.

 

[Inzyman]

It's not a hard concept to understand. Cars that are easier to drive makes it easier for less skilled drivers to turn faster lap times.

I'm really not at all concerned about running similar lap times to real life. There are a lot of variables that go into making that an accurate assessment tool in determining how real or not real a racing game is. The answer is not to just add grip until we run similar lap times to real life, which seems to be what you're advocating for unless I'm misunderstanding you.

Agreed. Half the time we are driving non existent cars on non existent tracks!

 

[CJammer883]

You will get to that point like we all do and squeezing the extra tenth will be just as hard as it always was. As long as it's a level playing field. I don't think the goal of PD is to get as close to the real thing as possible, I would go so far as to say their target market is not even the same as games like PC2. You need to Run PC2 if you want to head down that total realism track, they are 2 very different games when you get down to the finer points.

No one is saying PD should go balls deep down the simulation path. What I and a couple others seem to be confused about is why they felt the need to "fix" something that wasn't broken IMO. I thought the handling model before was very balanced and was a lot of fun. Sure some things could have been tweaked here and there but they were all minor. This is a pretty big change, and to me it's a lot less balanced and more on the 'casual' side of the pendulum. Which some will argue that GT Sport already was but it's even moreso now.

 

[TenderLoins]

It's not a hard concept to understand. Cars that are easier to drive makes it easier for less skilled drivers to turn faster lap times.

It also makes it easier for the skilled drivers to turn even faster lap times. Skill gap still in tact.

 

[Nuno ferreira]

I hate those fast Meganes Just finished Manufacturers on Dragon Trail and the first guy was constantly hitting 1.45 while the rest of us were on 1.46-7s - I'm not saying that this is due to car (the guy definitely had skills) but compared to my Cayman the Renault seems really really fast - not ranting, just saying - the race was really great everyone had a blue S at the end - I did just one stupid mistake missing the right racing line on the chicane and that cost me a few places

To hit 45 sure it uses super soft Racing types. To Kill a megan buy a viper. Viper hits 44 un dragon trail with super soft racing tyres of course. Hit 45 its easy. Even a gtr beat 45.5xx. Nsx hits 45.200 but thé viper its better. Maybe the lexus can be bettter never try never used but it haves power. Megan scirocco needs track with not a lot of corners. If havé to many corners megane and scirocco sucks. A track like kyoto scirocco its nice to many straights easy corners. A track like dragon interlagos megane and all ff cars are killed instantely.

 

[Baconink]

It is easy to say the game is easier when you are not chasing alien times. I really want to try is and find out for myself.

I’m usually not too far off from the aliens, I often get paired with them and make the top ten board a lot for a little bit of time anyways lol. I was able to get a 2:03 on maggiore with the scirocco which I have previously hated. I did this with in 3 laps also. The biggest difference to me is the handling under braking seems much better. Whatever they did to ABS is much better in my opinion. It does make driving at the limit more intuitive I suppose. Which can also lead to more/bigger mistakes perhaps.

 

[danardif1]

It's not a hard concept to understand. Cars that are easier to drive makes it easier for less skilled drivers to turn faster lap times.

I'm really not at all concerned about running similar lap times to real life. There are a lot of variables that go into making that an accurate assessment tool in determining how real or not real a racing game is. The answer is not to just add grip until we run similar lap times to real life, which seems to be what you're advocating for unless I'm misunderstanding you.

I'm not advocating for just adding 'canned' grip that isn't representative of what cars actually do in real life, I'm saying that the whole unsprung part of the cars needs serious work.

 

[Baconink]

It also makes it easier for the skilled drivers to turn even faster lap times. Skill gap still in tact.

Sorry, I always forget to quote multiple posts. Are you saying they should make it so it’s easier for the slower guys to keep up with the faster ones? I don’t agree with this at all. This is why there is a DR rating. If you can’t keep up then you are not where you belong. Personally I have way more fun when I’m in lobbies with guys faster than myself, it helps me to push myself further than I thought possible and helps me learn. The day PD gives an advantage to slower drivers just to keep them competitive with the faster/skilled drivers will be the day I quit playin GT.