Kevin Ward

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I never said I thought he did it on purpose, in fact I said:


But, I did say that he hit the gas as he was passing by the guy.

Why did he hit the gas? that is all I want to know.

No what you originally said was that we was doing it to intimidate this guy, which would call for some degree of intent which would probably mean that if the guy died (since he did) that manslaughter should be on the table. He was released the DA has been consulted, surely if they felt that there was something so obvious as "wasn't gonna listen to this little punk a** yell at him so he gunned the motor" they would have held him.

 

[niky]

Driving on dirt isn't at all like driving on tarmac.

Those Sprint Cars are more like powerboats... you need power to change direction. Simply let off the gas or hit the brakes, you've got no bite, you'll go in a straight line.

I've looked over the slow motion replays... what Tony does is get the car pointed left (possibly with the throttle) right before he hits Kevin. Kevin has an "Oh 🤬" moment right before he gets mowed over when he realizes he's run right into Tony's path. If Tony had gunned the throttle before hitting Kevin, he'd be sideways at that point already instead of pointed at him. As it was, it's very likely Tony didn't realize he was there until too late.

-

Scientifically, there's a big reason drivers hit motorcycles. It's because they're very narrow objects. When they're crossing your field of vision, (and, remember, black suit against a dark track), they don't register all that well compared to the cars around them. Many drivers literally cannot see the cyclist until they've hit them (which is why lane-splitting is so dangerous... and why bikers have to "act like cars", staying center-lane, in traffic, so they're in a place where drivers normally look).

Tony has several cars in front of him. A bright blue car has just swerved on the track and Tony is likely wondering why. By the time it becomes clear there's a dark object dancing across the track into his path, he's got very limited options.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's played "guess which way I'm going" coming towards a pedestrian on a dark road. It's terrifying. Now imagine doing that while driving on ice, coming around a bend, with a helmet on. That's pretty much what happened here.

 

[Bo]

Driving on dirt isn't at all like driving on tarmac.

Those Sprint Cars are more like powerboats... you need power to change direction. Simply let off the gas or hit the brakes, you've got no bite, you'll go in a straight line.

I've looked over the slow motion replays... what Tony does is get the car pointed left (possibly with the throttle) right before he hits Kevin. Kevin has an "Oh 🤬" moment right before he gets mowed over when he realizes he's run right into Tony's path. If Tony had gunned the throttle before hitting Kevin, he'd be sideways at that point already instead of pointed at him. As it was, it's very likely Tony didn't realize he was there until too late.

-

Scientifically, there's a big reason drivers hit motorcycles. It's because they're very narrow objects. When they're crossing your field of vision, (and, remember, black suit against a dark track), they don't register all that well compared to the cars around them. Many drivers literally cannot see the cyclist until they've hit them (which is why lane-splitting is so dangerous... and why bikers have to "act like cars", staying center-lane, in traffic, so they're in a place where drivers normally look).

Tony has several cars in front of him. A bright blue car has just swerved on the track and Tony is likely wondering why. By the time it becomes clear there's a dark object dancing across the track into his path, he's got very limited options.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's played "guess which way I'm going" coming towards a pedestrian on a dark road. It's terrifying. Now imagine doing that while driving on ice, coming around a bend, with a helmet on. That's pretty much what happened here.

Perfect summary. Couldn't have ever said it better. 👍

 

[Chrunch Houston]

No what you originally said was that we was doing it to intimidate this guy, which would call for some degree of intent which would probably mean that if the guy died (since he did) that manslaughter should be on the table. He was released the DA has been consulted, surely if they felt that there was something so obvious as "wasn't gonna listen to this little punk a** yell at him so he gunned the motor" they would have held him.

That is why I said I would wait for more evidence. I can not not yet find Stewart free of fault. Though I do want to.

But given the current evidence, I believe had Steward NOT mashed the accelerator the kid would still be alive.

I am not absolving the kid though, he truly was and idiot for running down there.

 

[Bo]

But given the current evidence, I believe had Steward NOT mashed the accelerator the kid would still be alive.

The car probably would've hit him full-on, but with less force, since it was literally just the edge of the wheel that clipped him.

If you don't jam the throttle in winged sprint cars, you may as well have no steering wheel. That's the way they drive.

 

[Rich S]

The car probably would've hit him full-on, but with less force, since it was literally just the edge of the wheel that clipped him.

If you don't jam the throttle in winged sprint cars, you may as well have no steering wheel. That's the way they drive.

Tony was high up on the race track it seems, there was quite a bit of space down low. The blue car was significantly lower down the track than Tony was.

It's going to take more convincing for me to believe this was an absolute accident on Tony's part. I understand that apparently you need the throttle to turn a sprint car at all (power boat analogy). Seems the blue car in front of Tony was lower on the track and also had less throttle. I would think that under caution running at partial speed an inside line would be easily attainable, considering that racing speeds are what, twice as fast as caution speed? 3 times as fast as caution speed?

I'd like to get an explanation for why Tony steered up the track to the right after making contact with Ward's body.

 

[Bo]

Tony was high up on the race track it seems, there was quite a bit of space down low. The blue car was significantly lower down the track than Tony was.

The widely played camera angle is deceiving. Ward comes down around 60% of the track - if you're even running the middle line, you would've met Ward. That's why the others came so close to hitting him anyway.

I'd like to get an explanation for why Tony steered up the track to the right after making contact with Ward's body.

Because Ward's body knocked it that way?

I would think that under caution running at partial speed an inside line would be easily attainable, considering that racing speeds are what, twice as fast as caution speed? 3 times as fast as caution speed?

It's literally impossible to hold one line:

If you watch a sprint car race under caution, you will see a driver or two pull out of line every corner, move up the race track, hammer on the throttle and turn down the race track to pull back into line.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Tony was high up on the race track it seems, there was quite a bit of space down low. The blue car was significantly lower down the track than Tony was.

It's going to take more convincing for me to believe this was an absolute accident on Tony's part. I understand that apparently you need the throttle to turn a sprint car at all (power boat analogy). Seems the blue car in front of Tony was lower on the track and also had less throttle. I would think that under caution running at partial speed an inside line would be easily attainable, considering that racing speeds are what, twice as fast as caution speed? 3 times as fast as caution speed?

I'd like to get an explanation for why Tony steered up the track to the right after making contact with Ward's body.

So then answer the question I posed to you about the four cars before the blue and white car, and a few cars after Ward was laying on the track that were passing faster? I mean it's quite inane for people to be so myopic that they only see Tony's car as the car going fastest.

 

[lbsf1]

The information/video we can see is pretty small and almost impossible to draw conclusions from. I'm assuming there is an investigation where other racers/marshalls/officials/spectators will be interviewed along with any other video evidence being reviewed by those whose expertise is dirt and oval racing, until the result of that comes out it seems unfair to accuse/defend any blame.

 

[Rich S]

The information/video we can see is pretty small and almost impossible to draw conclusions from. I'm assuming there is an investigation where other racers/marshalls/officials/spectators will be interviewed along with any other video evidence being reviewed by those whose expertise is dirt and oval racing, until the result of that comes out it seems unfair to accuse/defend any blame.

It is difficult to draw conclusions from any racing incident I suppose. I still think all the scenarios should be considered instead of just giving Stewart auto doubt benefit. Is there "reasonable doubt" of malicious intent, absolutely. Could he have had malicious intent, absolutely. This is the scary part, vehicular accidents are an excellent killing method if we put it that way, because proving intent is so difficult.

There are a number of possibilities we could consider the way I see it.

1) Stewart sped up a bit to try and AVOID a confrontation and accidentally ran into Ward due to trying to move quickly by him.

2) Stewart attempted to "scare" or "spray dirt" on Ward and came too close hitting him.

3) Stewart didn't see Ward at all and just ran him over due to it being dark and lack of visibility.

4) Stewart saw Ward but couldn't control his car's line in time to steer around Ward. To me this seems hard to imagine without Ward traveling some considerable distance down the track to plant himself in Stewart's line. To me this doesn't appear to be a "suicide by car" or anything like that. It doesn't appear that Ward attempted to dive in front of Tony's race car.

5.) Stewart deliberately hit Ward. What would it look like if Stewart were to aim at and hit ward on purpose? In my opinion it would look a hell of a lot like it does in the videos!! Especially when one looks at how close Stewart's car comes to Wards sitting car.

 

[Bo]

5.) Stewart deliberately hit Ward. What would it look like if Stewart were to aim at and hit ward on purpose? In my opinion it would look a hell of a lot like it does in the videos!! Especially when one looks at how close Stewart's car comes to Wards sitting car.

Firstly, he would've turned completely the opposite way to do so, and secondly, he and no sane person would deliberately harm a fellow racer. It's a pretty ridiculous proposition.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It is difficult to draw conclusions from any racing incident I suppose. I still think all the scenarios should be considered instead of just giving Stewart auto doubt benefit. Is there "reasonable doubt" of malicious intent, absolutely. Could he have had malicious intent, absolutely. This is the scary part, vehicular accidents are an excellent killing method if we put it that way, because proving intent is so difficult.

There are a number of possibilities we could consider the way I see it.

1) Stewart sped up a bit to try and AVOID a confrontation and accidentally ran into Ward due to trying to move quickly by him.

2) Stewart attempted to "scare" or "spray dirt" on Ward and came too close hitting him.

3) Stewart didn't see Ward at all and just ran him over due to it being dark and lack of visibility.

4) Stewart saw Ward but couldn't control his car's line in time to steer around Ward. To me this seems hard to imagine without Ward traveling some considerable distance down the track to plant himself in Stewart's line. To me this doesn't appear to be a "suicide by car" or anything like that. It doesn't appear that Ward attempted to dive in front of Tony's race car.

5.) Stewart deliberately hit Ward. What would it look like if Stewart were to aim at and hit ward on purpose? In my opinion it would look a hell of a lot like it does in the videos!! Especially when one looks at how close Stewart's car comes to Wards sitting car.

No one is giving "auto doubt benefit" as you put it, at least from what I can see, what they are giving is a counter to this act that those who saw the video can tell it was one way or another. They're the ones that are giving an alternative and instead of types who are now trying to prove their argument that it was deliberate in some way are instead saying "well let's just keep an open mind". We're not the ones that came in here with a closed mind in the first place only to slowly absolve it with each passing post.

Points 1, 3 and 4 are very similar not sure why they're separate since any of them would exonerate Stewart from criminal chargers.

Now after seeing you say keep an open mind, you then step in you own way to say that you are in line with number five, and thus pretty much condemning Stewart. Once again I ask how you people have the foresight that these drivers seemed to not have, that a man was out on the track trying to place himself in front of Stewart.

Also the low side of the track argument is a bit silly since many using this also agree that the 45 car nearly hit Ward but was somehow far lower on the track than Stewart. If this is the case and that car was so low on the track it either means Ward traveled far down the track to express himself (since Stewart was behind the 45 car), or Stewart was higher up and seemingly aiming at Ward who didn't travel all that far. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Imari]

5.) Stewart deliberately hit Ward. What would it look like if Stewart were to aim at and hit ward on purpose? In my opinion it would look a hell of a lot like it does in the videos!! Especially when one looks at how close Stewart's car comes to Wards sitting car.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who was so deranged that they would intentionally run someone over, on a race track, in front of dozens of cameras and a whole crowd of people would have made it all the way into their forties without doing so.

While Stewart may have made mistakes in his response to the situation, I doubt any of the thoughts in his mind were "well, I'll just run the guy down". It's one thing to be pissed at a guy, it's another to throw a punch. It's a whole different game altogether to try and kill someone.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I find it hard to believe that anyone who was so deranged that they would intentionally run someone over, on a race track, in front of dozens of cameras and a whole crowd of people would have made it all the way into their forties without doing so.

While Stewart may have made mistakes in his response to the situation, I doubt any of the thoughts in his mind were "well, I'll just run the guy down". It's one thing to be pissed at a guy, it's another to throw a punch. It's a whole different game altogether to try and kill someone.

You don't have to "try" and kill someone to kill someone. Isn't it possible Stewart was trying to "teach the kid a lesson" and send a little dirt shower his way and misjudged?

 

[GTPorsche]

Stewart didn't even know Ward had crashed, so I doubt Stewart was trying to do anything like kick up dirt to scare him or teach him a lesson.

 

[Imari]

You don't have to "try" and kill someone to kill someone. Isn't it possible Stewart was trying to "teach the kid a lesson" and send a little dirt shower his way and misjudged?

See where I said "While Stewart may have made mistakes in his response to the situation"?

I was responding to the point where it's claimed that he may have deliberately hit him. I don't think any racecar driver is unaware of the fact that if you hit someone with a car at above walking pace there's a very real possibility of death, particularly in what's essentially an open wheeler with sharp bits all over it.

I'm giving Tony Stewart the benefit of the doubt and saying he's not a moron until proven otherwise. He may have been trying to spook him or some other wholly inappropriate action, but that still means that the hit wasn't deliberate. Bad judgement is not the same as homicidal urges.

 

[NFSCARBON1]

Going the footage the 'trying to scare him' hypothesis is the one that seems most likely to me. I don't think Stewart would deliberately run him over but I also don't see why he had to accelerate, he'd have easily avoided ward by going in a straight line.

 

[GTPorsche]

Going the footage the 'trying to scare him' hypothesis is the one that seems most likely to me. I don't think Stewart would deliberately run him over but I also don't see why he had to accelerate, he'd have easily avoided ward by going in a straight line.

By going in a straight line.. in a left hand turn... when Ward was on the right.... would've meant avoiding him?

Can you see where the logic is flawed here?

Not to mention this nugget of info...

Stewart didn't even know Ward had crashed, so I doubt Stewart was trying to do anything like kick up dirt to scare him or teach him a lesson.

 

[TheCracker]

It's not inconceivable that whatever handling foibles his car was suffering with on the previous lap that caused him to drift wide had also caused his car to drift wide, and unfortunately hit Kevin Ward Jr, on the next lap.

 

[GTPorsche]

It's not inconceivable that whatever handling foibles his car was suffering with on the previous lap that caused him to drift wide had also caused his car to drift wide, and unfortunately hit Kevin Ward Jr, on the next lap.

That's pretty inconceivable.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I think the worst thing Tony could realistically be accused of is not backing down in a game of chicken.

Note: I'm not saying this is what happened, but to me it seems more plausible that Smoke saw him and thought "what's this idiot doing, well he'll get out of my way because he won't want to get run over", rather than, "I'll try a precision manouvere around a moving target, whilst cornering on dirt, at highway speed, with limited visibility"

My general feeling at this stage is by the time Smoke saw him it was too late, simple as that. The movement of Tony's car being not much more than a last second attempt at orientating the car away from Ward.

The bottom line for me personally.. Tony will either know he did everything he could to avoid it, and will have to live with an accidental death caused by someone elses stupidity.... or he will know he did not do everything he could to avoid it, and will have to live with a negligent murder on his conscience.

 

[niky]

Stewart didn't even know Ward had crashed, so I doubt Stewart was trying to do anything like kick up dirt to scare him or teach him a lesson.

This is where the whole "Stewart was burning mad" theory falls down for me. It's obvious from the incident that Kevin took himself out trying to go high on Stewart, only to have Tony understeer into him. And that didn't hurt Tony at all. He didn't lose position. His car was still in one piece.

And if Tony did take Kevin's car out on purpose, why would he be mad? If he were truly a gigantic arse, he'd be happy, having taken the kid out of the race.

Which leaves only one thing: the red hot rage at seeing some guy walking down the road waging his finger. Which Tony would only have been able to see for about ten seconds or so before he hit him... If he actually saw him at all

This is not to say he's undoubtedly innocent. It's just that in terms of manslaughter or even vehicular assault, there's a whole lot of reasonable doubt.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

Horrible story indeed.

I think the bottom line is do NOT EVER get out of your race car and approach other race cars no matter how mad you are.

 

[Bo]

Going the footage the 'trying to scare him' hypothesis is the one that seems most likely to me. I don't think Stewart would deliberately run him over but I also don't see why he had to accelerate, he'd have easily avoided ward by going in a straight line.

Can you just read over the bits of info posted about sprint car handling?

 

[TheCracker]

You only have to watch a short clip of in-car Sprint Car footage to see how little vision the drivers get behind the wheel. Especially with all the dirt being thrown up and the fact that most of a lap is spent looking through the side netting. Add to that the glare from the lights at the edges of the track and the fact that Ward Jr was wearing all black. Even if they were slowing down due to caution flags/lights, a driver is going to be concerned about being hit from behind by a following car that maybe hasn't reacted to the caution as quickly. To me, the cause of this terrible accident is due to hot-headedness, but i've got to say it was on the part of Kevin Ward, not Stewart.

 

[Peasantslayer]

All I know is it's a bad idea to run into the middle of a race track.

 

[Tornado]

All I know is it's a bad idea to run into the middle of a race track.

omg stop blaming the victim

 

[Peasantslayer]

omg stop blaming the victim

In situations like these people would much rather blame it on someone who isn't the victim, we don't know what was going on in Tony's head/car but we do know Kevin should not have been there.

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

It truly is sad about the loss of another human being. However.....

Again, bottom line, DO NOT EVER GET OUT OF YOUR CAR AND WALK INTO THE MIDDLE OF A RACE TRACK. EVER.

 

[IforceV8]

Dan Patrick read a Facebook post on his radio/tv show by a crew member, Mark Tychoniewicz, of the 45 car who was directly ahead of Stewart and that driver said he didnt see Ward until the last second and just missed him.He also said "I have driven these cars, the right sideboard on the top wing will block out an entire car,let alone a person standing there".

My 1st thought when this story broke was somebody forgot to change Tony's diaper again and he was giving that kid a big FU but I now feel this was just a tragic accident.Young people make bad choices,most live to tell the tale in their old age, Kevin Ward didnt.

The culture of NASCAR was a contributing factor in all of this and guys like Tony,Kurt,and many others who run into traffic to get their "revenge" for being disrespected has to stop.Fox,ESPN and all the other tv networks are partly to blame because they broadcast will always go to cover the big "boys have at it" moment.

In the end this NASCAR has a chance to step up and help fix this.If you leave the car and go anywhere near the racing line and wait for the cars to come back around you will be suspended for 1 week and lose points.Use your car as a weapon against another car in the pits and you are gone for a month and you lose your purse money.

I know this attitude is not just NASCAR,I saw a guy walk onto the track and show his disgust during the CTSCC race at Road America Saturday, but they are the biggest series in the US so they have the most influence/exposure.