Need For Speed Payback General Discussion

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jstef
I can't drive IRL, but I love driving around with the wheel (the other option being the keyboard, on my PC). I couldn't do without force feedback, though I only play this type or arcade games and not "real" simulators.

BTW I managed to get my old Logitech Driving Force Pro perfectly usable.
I was so disappointed when I realized it was unsupported - and was not working at all in game! I can only use the paddles, and not the lever, to switch gear, but still :)
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I recently sold my wheel. The game is not good with a wheel anyway. It was wasted work by Ghost Games that could have been used elsewhere.
 
JR98
Wow the clean driving side bets are the most BS I've ever seen in an NFS game




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True, and god knows why they have them in the escapes, but there are two ways around it (1.5 actually as both involve the same trick, but at different times). Firstly in a straight race, just hang back and avoid traffic. Stay with the pack, but stay behind. Finish the time limit and leg it. In escapes get through the check points asap with as much time. The chasers back off at the end, so slow down and hopefully cruise to the line (stop near it if you have to before crossing it). You can apply the escape solution to races as well but you have to go like hell as the racers don't give up before the end.

P.S hadn't seen the last vid until now. That is ****
 
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Looks like the next abandoned car is out!



EDIT: Players are reporting the car hasn't shown up in game yet. Perhaps it is best to wait for a call from Rav before you go searching.
 
Already know the livery I should go for with it.
latest
 
Hang on, let me catch up to myself here. We got the Amazon last week, and then the 242.. this week? Two cars in just as many weeks? No two week gap between them?

Have Ghost started doing consistent Rockstaring?
 
Dairyworker
Looks that way. I think the xmas break skrewed with the begining of the cycle
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Probably.

If I remember correctly, the RX-7 ended on a wednsday night and all new cars are coming out on monday nights. That's probably what messed up with the cycle, not ending in the day a new car is supposed to appear again.
 
I'm probably late to realise, but when did the "Stay on the road" side bet change to this?
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While they are at it, Ghost better make amendments to the clean driving side bets for the reasons @JR98 posted.
 
cudwieser
From what? It may be an adjustment form when you declined the bet last time or it could just be random.
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It's from "Drift The Block". I know it has changed because I've grinded the event plenty of times and the three side bets that would always appear in a cycle are "Drift for x amount of yards", "Finish the event within x seconds" and "Stay on the road" - I have never seen this side bet appear.

Plus, it appeared on another drift event for the first time I completed somewhere in the Canyons today.
 
That's a simple one:

"Stay on the road" usually means "don't go off the road at all", and yet there was this 2-second safety net.

The criteria are the same, the text is just more representative of what's going on and was changed with the only "real" update the game has had thus far.

Also don't get me started on the "clean driving" ones. Not even bottoming out for three minutes when even a 299-spec car does this 1%-Club-strand event in less than two?
 
Grabbed the 242DL last night.... first abandoned car so far that I escaped on the first attempt. I think the route was easier and also the car is built like a tank.

I'm a little disappointed that they don't allow you to choose the class for the car like you can the derelicts. Every car so far has been classified differently than what I would prefer... I would want the 242 as a runner car given my initial driving impression of it, whereas I will never actually circuit or sprint race with it. I would have probably preferred the RX-7 as a drift car. The Amazon.... I still haven't decided what to do with that cute little turd but I know I don't want it to be off-road :P
 
@CleanCut Exactly, I wish it was like a derelict in the way you could pick which class you want the car to be as soon as you bring it to the garage. I was okay with the RX-7 being race and the Amazon being offroad, But I had to sell the race spec 242DL in favour of an offroad build. It kinda sucks because not only do you have to pay for the car again, you lose out on the enhanced stock parts the abandoned car has.
 
FT-1
Looks like the next abandoned car is out!



EDIT: Players are reporting the car hasn't shown up in game yet. Perhaps it is best to wait for a call from Rav before you go searching.
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Thanks for the heads up. Got in last night. Had two Rhinos attack me in the chase back to Rav's which is a first as I believe thats the first time Ive seen two Rhinos in a abandoned car pursuit. Im going to buy another one. Keep one looking totally stock but fully modified and the other as a touring car type replica
 
Bourne15ive, a racing game YouTuber, has released a documentary series comparing NFS 2015 and Payback. You can watch Part 1 and Part 2, but you can save time by watching the third instalment which sums up while how Payback is a better game, 2015 was a more "fun" title primary because of the underground atmosphere, and he has quotes from people who share the same sentiment.


I don't agree about 2015 being the more fun title (the physics are mainly to blame here), but I certainly preferred the Underground vibe over the Hollywood action movie setup.
 
I guess you can consider that element, but I would much rather take a competent game aping off of F&F story set ups then a masturbatory, broken and frustrating hole of a game that has no redeeming value whatsoever.

About the only thing that I really consider 'better' in NFS 2015 is the graphics, and that's it.
 
I dunno guys, the new popular opinion doesn't set right with me, and I don't agree with it. Payback is superior in nearly every aspect sans the graphics. 2015 was a gorgeous game, but that in itself would never convince me to go back to it and actually try to fool myself into thinking that it's the better of the two. Payback is immensely more fun, and I would argue that 2015 was so shallow by comparison in terms of story and events/activities, that IT is the one that felt like it should've been DLC for Payback, not the other way around. What irritates me is the fact that when 2015 was relevant, the majority of people were complaining "Why is it nighttime all the time? We want daytime!! We want more customization!" We want better cop chases!" Payback delivered all of those things, and yet now the same people are saying "We liked nighttime better! We liked 2015 more! Go back to that!" It just illustrates how fickle we gamers are - do we truly even know what we want? If I was a developer I would pull every hair out trying to figure out how to please the majority.
 
CleanCut
I dunno guys, the new popular opinion doesn't set right with me, and I don't agree with it. Payback is superior in nearly every aspect sans the graphics. 2015 was a gorgeous game, but that in itself would never convince me to go back to it and actually try to fool myself into thinking that it's the better of the two. Payback is immensely more fun, and I would argue that 2015 was so shallow by comparison in terms of story and events/activities, that IT is the one that felt like it should've been DLC for Payback, not the other way around. What irritates me is the fact that when 2015 was relevant, the majority of people were complaining "Why is it nighttime all the time? We want daytime!! We want more customization!" We want better cop chases!" Payback delivered all of those things, and yet now the same people are saying "We liked nighttime better! We liked 2015 more! Go back to that!" It just illustrates how fickle we gamers are - do we truly even know what we want? If I was a developer I would pull every hair out trying to figure out how to please the majority.
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It just shows that some people prefer one thing, and others something else. You can't really link two different opinions as if someone said both of those things. You touched on something quite true though, the general and vocal audience that tends to voice out like that on social media tend to be the worst offenders and the most asinine people, and that tends to be for most any game, really.

I'm all for listening to the community, but everything that is said shouldn't be taken in.
 
^^^ You absolutely can link those two differing opinions - there's video evidence on Youtube. I'm not going to dig it up for you because I don't owe it, but be my guest to go searching. The same guys on there right now (mind you some of them I find entertaining, some I can't stand) have said as much. Bourne15, Straight up Hippo are a couple of examples who both claim that 2015 was more fun to them, while they both admit that Payback is the better constructed game. One of the arguing points is the nighttime environment, whereas one of the most common criticisms on 2015 was the lack of daytime. The comments of viewers on their channels also support this notion that 2015 was better.

Look, I don't care if others have the opinion that 2015 is better - fine, more power to them. It's just seems, as I already said, fickle when the primary criticisms of one game are done away with in the sequel, but then those same criticisms are touted as being superior in hindsight.
 
CleanCut
^^^ You absolutely can link those two differing opinions - there's video evidence on Youtube.
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No, you really cant. Unless you have a list of people who said the one opinion, that also said the other opinion. What you're seeing is that the people with the opinion of always night being bad are now satisfied, but now the ones that preferred the pure night are being vocal because they're on the other end of the stick now.
CleanCut
I'm not going to dig it up for you because I don't owe it, but be my guest to go searching.
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I wasn't asking you to.

CleanCut
Bourne15, Straight up Hippo are a couple of examples who both claim that 2015 was more fun to them, while they both admit that Payback is the better constructed game
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So they're the ones that said night was bad, but are now complaining about the day cycle?
 
ImaRobot
So they're the ones that said night was bad, but are now complaining about the day cycle?
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Sort of. They aren't complaining about Payback's day/night cycle, but were critical of 2015 for not having one. Now that Payback gave us a day/night cycle, they are saying that the all-night of 2015 was better.

The overall sentiment of the, as you put it, "most vocal" part of the community seems to currently be saying 'we had more fun with 2015, make another game like that!' Whereas the hate was quite pronounced in 2015 as you'll recall. I can be down with another attempt at making an Underground-type NFS, but it seems rather fickle to hear the vocal majority saying one thing, then the complete opposite after each successive title. At some point I have to wonder if the identity crisis that the NFS series has can be partially attributed to the wishy-washy nature of the fans they are trying to please? That being said, there were definitely decisions made in Payback that no one asked for, like the upgrade system, for example. So it's not like I'm totally on the side of the developer here. But if I were a developer trying to make everyone happy, or even the same customers happy with each successive title, I might liken it to chasing a fly with a swatter.

You're right about one thing for sure - developers can't listen to the suggestions/feedback of everyone, because it's quite chaotic. Sometimes I browse the official forums just for kicks.... pages upon pages of criticisms and people throwing a FIT about stuff.... I'm like, really?

Anyways, you haven't been around the NFS threads for months, do you have Payback? What are your thoughts on it?
 
CleanCut
Sort of. They aren't complaining about Payback's day/night cycle, but were critical of 2015 for not having one. Now that Payback gave us a day/night cycle, they are saying that the all-night of 2015 was better.
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Ah ok, I thought you were making a general statement rather than talking about a specific person. I agree, that is an odd way to go about things. Although, maybe to them, after experiencing Payback, that 2015 was the lesser of two evils? I've not yet tried Payback so I can't really comment on that.

CleanCut
At some point I have to wonder if the identity crisis that the NFS series has can be partially attributed to the wishy-washy nature of the fans they are trying to please? That being said, there were definitely decisions made in Payback that no one asked for, like the upgrade system, for example. So it's not like I'm totally on the side of the developer here. But if I were a developer trying to make everyone happy, or even the same customers happy with each successive title, I might liken it to chasing a fly with a swatter.
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Eh, I myself wouldn't put too much blame on the community outside of their illogical ranting. In the end, it's all how the developers implement new ideas into the game, and if they can't seem to get a general focus, rather than flip flopping, than that's something they need to look at internally. That's why I noted before, I'm all for listening to the community, but I don't think everything said should be taken in, they're making the game after all, so they should draw the line somewhere.

What they need to do is make a base game and expand upon it, instead of making rehash after rehash.

CleanCut
You're right about one thing for sure - developers can't listen to the suggestions/feedback of everyone, because it's quite chaotic. Sometimes I browse the official forums just for kicks.... pages upon pages of criticisms and people throwing a FIT about stuff.... I'm like, really?
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The official forums for any game I've had have been a mess, always. I don't think I've found one that isn't to be honest. That's why I tend to avoid even the Forza official forums, even though thats my most played console-racer.

CleanCut
Anyways, you haven't been around the NFS threads for months, do you have Payback? What are your thoughts on it?
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Im teeter-totting on the idea of purchasing it. I missed my chance with the sales near Christmas time, and that likely would have been the ideal time to buy it. I'm still not sure if I can justify the full price, so I'm waiting for another sale before I pick it up. Me having an Xbox One X, I'm tempted by most any 4k HDR game, so it's definitely on the list, but just not a high priority for me.
 
^^^ Yep, I agree about official forums for any game. You get more level-headed views and reasonable criticism from off-shoot sites like this one. Official forums are littered with 12 year-olds yelling because they can't log on correctly and other miscellaneous rantings about what-not.

I waited and bought Payback during X-mas sales, and I don't blame you for waiting. I was able to get the deluxe version for 33% off. I paid full price for 2015, and while I enjoyed it for a time and don't regret the purchase, Payback feels so much more like a full AAA game, whereas 2015 almost felt like a demo of a AAA game by comparison.

One thing is for sure, 2015 sure looked a lot more pretty. But looks aren't everything.
 
The problem with all this is that the NFS fanbase can be grouped into two very distinctive subsets: those that think extreme customisation in perma-night cities is the only way to make NFS games, and those that'd argue it's not an NFS game if it's about more than sporty cars and open highways. And no matter what you do to try and appeal to both, at least one of the groups is going to feel underappreciated. I dare to say we wouldn't have had this problem if the Underground games hadn't carried on using the NFS name, but that's a debate for another thread.

But here's the thing: In terms of play style, Payback should - at least to some extent - appeal to both groups. If you want to modify your car visually, there's plenty of options for that. Or you could not - totally up to you, but the options (which are more than in 2015, by the way) are there. You've got an admittedly quite small city *and* ginormous outdoors-y bits to race around. Sometimes it's daytime, and when that's done, you've got nighttime until the cycle starts over again. It should, really, be more along the lines of a win-win situation than any previous NFS games.

Yes, there are points to be made about how 2015 had some cool ideas that all came out as polished as the latest Steam Direct asset flip, and how Payback gets most of its freemode from Burnout Paradise and whether that makes it a NFS game or not and how the microtransactions/tuning system makes Battlefront II look alright in comparison, there's the whole "urban car culture" vs. Fast-And-Furious-Would-Be-Proud aspect, but again, interesting questions as they are, I question their relevance with regards to this particular topic.

The TL;DR version is that, no matter what the next step is, Need for Speed just can't win anymore. There's just too many vocal minorities/majorities/whatever pulling in separate directions more stubbornly than a political party wanting their part of the annual government budget cake for any good to come out of listening to them.

And, truth be told, I'm starting to actually hope this is the point where EA decides enough is enough and stops the series. Some would even argue that ship has long since sailed.

Then I remember this is EA we're talking about and they'll continue making anything as long as it makes their shareholders billions and if something disappoints they turn into their alter ego - Unicronic Arts. Yay optimism!
 
Rally, I don't disagree with any of those points, however I would guess that the NFS fans who disapprove of the moniker being used for Underground-type games are becoming fewer and farther between. Most NFS'ers probably cut their teeth on the Underground series or later. It seems to me that the biggest problem is no longer what truly makes an NFS game, but the fact that gamers have come to expect a massive amount of content to be able to do anything they want, which may not always be possible.

Personally I can enjoy the atmosphere of both 2015 AND Payback, without feeling slighted by one or the other. I think Payback is a very enjoyable game, definitely a step in the right direction, and I would be disappointed if Ghost/EA/whoever pulls the plug now.
 
EA Games could continue making a racing series without the "Need For Speed" moniker and forever have a type of subgroup wishing each title focused on a certain aspect more, but they probably can't, especially in this day and age, because of the equity of the franchise. Alongside Gran Turismo, Need For Speed is the most prolific tag associated with racing games - Even mediocre review scores cannot stop the recent titles remaining in the charts for weeks and reaching millions of sales in their lifetime.

With that said, The birth of Underground could have done without the Need For Speed name and still been a massive success. Demand for racing games back then was high enough that having "Underground Racing" or some similar title would have been able to draw similar sales figures to a game called "Need For Speed Underground", provided the approach to PR and advertising remained the same.
 

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