New Acura NSX in GT5?

[Beeblebrox237]

Is it just me or do I see what might be a test track?

 

[McLaren]

You seriously think Honda allowed Americans to design the NSX all by themselves?
I think it's gorgeous, by the way.

According to the press release, it was designed here in America & will be built here. Nothing really about Honda's hand in it besides supplying the parts. 💡

 

[djs]

Yes it's long and it appears to be one track but look at that ship...the PDI Line, containers full with new content, yummy.

And the track goes uphill...

 

[CSLACR]

According to the press release, it was designed here in America & will be built here. Nothing really about Honda's hand in it besides supplying the parts. 💡

Depends on how you look at it. Some people will call a Lamborghini an Audi.
Wherever it was designed, it is certainly one gorgeous car. Very surprised to hear Honda didn't have a hand in it, but then I always liked Acura more then Honda.

My, aren't you all kinds of hypersensitive lately.

Dude, his position is that we've seen all kinds of tracks and cars in videos, and haven't seen blade grass or fender of about any of them. As if we've been getting DLC all along now, never mind that the FT-86 did manage to mosy our way. I think someone needs to cut back on the sugar and caffeine or something. Actually, I need to un-cut back on some racing...

It just gets old hearing people respond negatively towards things that were never said in the first place.
He's absolutely spot-on correct, there have been many videos, shots in videos, etc, that have been taken as "proof" something was going to happen. That's very commonly not the case.

Yet somehow you twisted that into "the death of GT5 DLC" out of absolutely nothing. It's downright ridiculous.

You're doing it yet again here.

Dude, his position is that we've seen all kinds of tracks and cars in videos, and haven't seen blade grass or fender of about any of them. As if we've been getting DLC all along now,

At least in what you quoted, he did not say, nor insinuate in any way, shape, or form any of this. Not even a little.
Looking for an argument much?

 

[Griffith500]

According to the press release, it was designed here in America & will be built here. Nothing really about Honda's hand in it besides supplying the parts. 💡

Was it designed and engineered in the US? That's interesting.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

What ever they do I hope they dont allow EA to use this car

 

[Jav]

You're basing your opinion on information that has nothing to do with the car's "soul", which is stupid & ignorant.

Until they review how this car actually drives & how it performs in the real world, nobody knows if it has soul or not.

Well that's my opinion and it still stands. Is there a problem with that?

I have no idea what the K20 has to do with the CR-Z anyway. It's got a special derivative of the L15 engine, the LEA. The L series replaced the D series, so it's a small car / efficient engine, wheras the K is for their larger and / or sportier cars (the K effectively replaced the Bs, Fs and Hs at about the same time the L appeared). Engines are updated during their lifetimes all the time.

I'm really curious about the details of this concept's direct injection V6; i.e. is it the same as the one announced recently? (3.5 litre, ~310 bhp, ~270 lbf.ft)

I guess the benefits of sports hybrids are that you can use these economic engines, and rely on the energy recovery and electric motors for the extra punch, easily 150+ bhp.

There's a tunning shop in Tampa that did the K20 swap and the car actually was getting better mileage than the hybrid car.

 

[pgarratt]

Was it designed and engineered in the US? That's interesting.

Yes, it will have its R&D work done at their Raymond OH facility

 

[Tenacious D]

At least in what you quoted, he did not say, nor insinuate in any way, shape, or form any of this. Not even a little.
Looking for an argument much?

Then perhaps you can explain just what his post is about. How exactly are we going to see El Capitain, this track, or any new track in GT5 at some point in time?

 

[analog]

I thought all Hondas were designed in the USA these days? I'm pretty sure they have a division somewhere that does nothing but churn out designs. I can't remember where I read that, though.

Most modern cars are designed "by committee", of course (mostly because of safety regulations, but also company image concerns... HSV stand up).

EDIT: that's what happened to Toyota's new 86, too...

A lot of big car companies have several design studios located mostly in the US, Europe and in the case of Japanese manufacturers, obviously Japan.
Sometimes it's organized to actually compete each other and see who'll come up with the best design.
I'm pretty certain a lot of Hondas are still designed (or more accurate, styled) in Japan as well though, although you might not be able to tell since all studios no doubt are able to distill the essence of Honda, where they are actually located is probably irrelevant.

The committee you mentioned are probably what's called 'customer clinics' whereby a target group of potential buyers are shown different concepts and which is a safe way to ensure the styling is going to be appreciated by a large demographic.
Or a beancounters way to castrate true creativity and progress, which results in boring 'me too' designs.
In fairness, I feel this practise is slowly dying as consumers these days seem to appreciate more daring design in general and I think it's mostly the Japanese brands which heavily tone down their initial concepts these days, the Toyota 86 being a case in point.

About the Honda styling in general, in a recent Car Magazine article, Gavin Green told he spoke with a senior Honda CEO (or whatever his important function is named) and about the loss of 'mojo' compared to what Honda is previously known for, and that CEO admitted they were aware of that and working on it.
I kinda hope this car isn't an example of that though (by which I mean the styling).

 

[McLaren]

Was it designed and engineered in the US? That's interesting.

Obviously not if there were continuous spy shots of NSX mules shot in Germany.

But, I'm going by the press release that says the car was designed in the US & will be built in Ohio.

Well that's my opinion and it still stands. Is there a problem with that?

It's not a valid opinion, it's just you spouting nonsense. But if that's how you choose to present yourself as an ignorant person, go for it. You've already shown you don't have the slightest hint at this car anyway.

 

[Jason_B]

This is 2012, if you want the car to look like the 2003 version, then buy the 2003 version. The standards for aerodynamics have changed dramatically from 8 years ago. All super cars and now super hybrids are going to have to follow a base design to save resources. This is what they came up with it's not the end of the world. Personally I like it.

But much like other cars of today, it looks like another brand. The US cars are all taking on new copied looks, the 2013 Fusion looks like a Jaguar, the Dart looks like a Mitsubishi, and so on. And the 86 is also a great example it will badged as 3 different brands.

 

[shirakawaa]

This is 2012, if you want the car to look like the 2003 version, then buy the 2003 version. The standards for aerodynamics have changed dramatically from 8 years ago. All super cars and now super hybrids are going to have to follow a base design to save resources.

The main reason is more likely that cars now have to comply to stricter crash and pedestrian safety regulations.

 

[Griffith500]

...

There's a tunning shop in Tampa that did the K20 swap and the car actually was getting better mileage than the hybrid car.

I bet the L15 could be suitably fettled to give much more fuel economy, too, depending on how you drive it (which is the bigger factor...). Regardless, it's not really comparable if it's been modified! If it's the LHT one you mean, they modified the ECU mapping, which is cheating...

Yes, it will have its R&D work done at their Raymond OH facility

I guess then, other things considered, it's sort of a "team effort" as regards nationalities, which is cool.


@ analog: great stuff, thanks!

 

[Jason_B]

The main reason is more likely that cars now have to comply to stricter crash and pedestrian safety regulations.

By resources I meant electricity, fuel, and rubber. But yes there is a safety standard to this design as well.

 

[Jav]

It's not a valid opinion, it's just you spouting nonsense. But if that's how you choose to present yourself as an ignorant person, go for it. You've already shown you don't have the slightest hint at this car anyway.

Valid for who? You? Trust me I could care less of your existance in this planet. Many others share my opinion and quite frankly you are the big oposition here, so please move on with your campaingn to turn everyone in the world into a little version of you.

I bet the L15 could be suitably fettled to give much more fuel economy, too, depending on how you drive it (which is the bigger factor...). Regardless, it's not really comparable if it's been modified! If it's the LHT one you mean, they modified the ECU mapping, which is cheating...

Lol! Agreed, but a high specific output engine is an efficient engine wich is the basis for economy. Just imagine what the CR-Z could've been if Honda would've chosen to give it this engine plus the hybrid system!

 

[Griffith500]

...

Lol! Agreed, but a high specific output engine is an efficient engine wich is the basis for economy. Just imagine what the CR-Z could've been if Honda would've chosen to give it this engine plus the hybrid system!

Yes, quite; in many engines the peak fuel efficiency is near peak torque; by which I'm referring to brake-specific fuel consumption (i.e. work out / energy in). But if it's absolute lowest consumption you want (which manufacturers do), you need to be putting less fuel in the engine altogether, which means lower displacement. This is why Diesels are so good; there's no real lower limit for leaning out the mixture, at least with the limitations of today's fuel delivery hardware; on the other hand, petrol / gasoline has a tendency to liquefy the pistons when you run lean, which gives rise to all sorts of weird approaches, from semi-pseudo Atkinson cycle engines (late intake valve closure, as found in the Prius) to charge shaping and confinement (fuel stratification, etc.)...

Lightweight construction materials are the only way to improve fuel economy and performance, so I wonder what Honda plan for the NSX in that respect. The original made extensive use of aluminium, which is partly why it remained so good for so long. Supposedly manufacturers are looking again to composites; this time "carbon fibre".

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

So What Kind of hp does everyone think the Drive train will make...

V6 Vtec Motor, alongside 3 Electric Motors.

I can say with all the Elec. Power I bet it will be torque rich.
Also hope it can accelerate with Electricity like jump.

 

[analog]

Supposedly manufacturers are looking again to composites; this time "carbon fibre".

I still hope this idea by BMW (or Bangle and his team) will catch on eventually, can't go much lighter than cloth I suppose and think of all the implications and possibilities.

 

[canieaturchikn]

Here is some food for thought. Acura has admitted that the original powertrain for this NSX was a 3.5L V6 producing 400hp. This is without the electric motors in the tranny and up front. However Honda has scrapped this setup for the NSX and is now going into the next RL because they felt it was not enough for a car like the NSX.
The actual powertrain for the NSX is still unknown but we can speculate. Honda says it will still be a V6 so i would guess that if the 400hp motor isn't enough then 500hp is plausable. This is without the electric motors offcourse. I would say 30-50hp for the front motors and 100 for the tranny motor(talk about getting rid of drivetrain loss).
Electric motors tend to make more torque than gasoline engine and torque tends to be instant. I have no doubt the three electric motor combo will make 300lb-ft with the V6 we can safely say 500lb-ft is plausable. Remember this is all speculation but if what Honda said about the origins of the next RL's powertrain is true then i don't think i'm too far off.
The only thing that really confuses me is Honda said this car is supposed to fuse man and machine or something along those lines so why the 7speed DSG gear box?

 

[McLaren]

Valid for who? You? Trust me I could care less of your existance in this planet. Many others share my opinion and quite frankly you are the big oposition here, so please move on with your campaingn to turn everyone in the world into a little version of you.

1. Only 1 person in this thread shares a similar opinion. 1=many?
2. This part of the forum is full of people like you to begin with, so just because they share your assumption (not opinion), doesn't mean their "opinion" is any more valid.

You present an assumption based on a subject that has not even been released. It's amazing how you know it has no soul when you have never driven this car or have any information at hand to come to such an inclusion. I believe we call that ignorance. It is like me saying the NSX is actually the most soulful car in the world. How could I come to such an opinion without driving it or at least having some sort of information that reports on it will drive.

And I will move on. The less time I spend explaining the issue of your "opinion", the less time I have to read you attempting cute remarks & making silly assumptions. 👍

 

[diegorborges]

I still hope this idea by BMW (or Bangle and his team) will catch on eventually, can't go much lighter than cloth I suppose and think of all the implications and possibilities.

GINA was a genial approach to different materials. It's really interesting to listen to mr. Bangle talk about it. It's a whole different thinking. And in the real world, I believe it would work for Caterhams, Ariel Atoms, etc.

 

[Griffith500]

So What Kind of hp does everyone think the Drive train will make...

V6 Vtec Motor, alongside 3 Electric Motors.

I can say with all the Elec. Power I bet it will be torque rich.
Also hope it can accelerate with Electricity like jump.

I noted earlier that Honda's new DI V6 puts down nearly 310 bhp and 270 lbft (360 Nm), so my guess is that, plus at least 100 bhp from the leccy motors; 400 - 450 bhp in other words, which is fine if they can keep it light.

I still hope this idea by BMW (or Bangle and his team) will catch on eventually, can't go much lighter than cloth I suppose and think of all the implications and possibilities.

[vid]

Man, I'm such a sucker for engineering idealism! It's a fantastic idea; at least until some bugger keys it for you! (It is a BMW...)

 

[analog]

GINA was a genial approach to different materials. It's really interesting to listen to mr. Bangle talk about it. It's a whole different thinking. And in the real world, I believe it would work for Caterhams, Ariel Atoms, etc.

Yes I can't see it happen soon for mainstream cars too but maybe in the (far) future it will become more used.

Man, I'm such a sucker for engineering idealism! It's a fantastic idea; at least until some bugger keys it for you! (It is a BMW...)

Hey, you'll only need one piece of relative cheap cloth to replace it, unlike an expensive repair job on a few metal parts.

 

[Short Bus]

It has 472hp, but can make 672Hp because the hybrid flywheel in it produces 200Hp at the push of a button.

Again, my impression is that they chose a complex solution to get around a very simple "no nitrous" regulation that exists in every road racing organization I know of. The perk is that it's self renewing and possibly aids fuel economy in the process.

Yeah so they've stated that they're using it as a test bed for new tech... that's great, but I'm talking about effect, not intent.

It's cute you're also proposing the Horsepower>Everything else idea. Circuit racing isn't about straight out horsepower. Otherwise, there would be straight wins by the 703hp 908 over the 590Hp Audi.

Do you not read anything or do you just skim posts & not use common sense?

You need to calm down and accept that when you say "it's clearly superior" that there might be a person or two who disagree and are willing to vocalize that disagreement. There's no need to break out the snide remarks and resort to the "you don't agree with me so clearly you're just skimming my post" attitude.

As far as horsepower goes.... you're going to tell me that an extra 300 or 400 horsepower wouldn't make a difference on a track with a single straight that's 1 1/3 miles long? ...a track that has several other very long straight power sections? ...in a chassis that's proven to be very competitive with the 911?

Clearly there's more to speed on a road course than raw horsepower, but the focus of most racing regulations is ensuring relative parity when it comes to horsepower to weight ratios, and there's a reason for that.

Why is this "temporary boost to 672 horsepower" technology superior to engine tech that can maintain a steady state 672 horsepower? A *stock* ZR1 makes almost that much horsepower and does so with a *warranty*.

They are not going to produce production cars with an actual nitrous system. Again, learn what KERS is & why it's used. Hint: It's environmentally friendly.

So that's it? Because it's environmentally friendly? If that's why you think it's superior I'll concede and ask that you please be more specific when making "it's better" comments in the future.

The Porsche 911 has come up against more powerful cars at the race, even without the Hybrid technology. The LF-A that enters the VLN produces 560Hp. A Ford GT that has entered produced 550Hp+. The Audi R8 LMS enters with 490Hp.

And yet, for the past 6 years (excluding 2010 when BMW won), a Porsche 911 has won the event. 2010 would have been won as well had the Hybrid not suffered a piston failure in the final hour.

Again, circuit racing is not about all out horsepower, esp. not in endurance racing. Get that mindset out of here.

If the non hybrid 911 is winning then that supports the statement that it's the chassis that's superior and that modifying the car in the way you describe later in your post, to include the Knight Rider-esque "turbo boost" button are increasing the speed of an already fast car.

I gave you the most perfect example of this hybrid car vs. the conventional car.

Porsche 911 GT3R (472Hp) vs. Porsche 911 GT3R Hybrid (472Hp+200Hp Hybrid flywheel). In 2010, before the air restrictor & weight penalties, the GT3R Hybrid lead the race for 8 hours unmatched compared to Manthey. Take note right here that for the majority of the race, the Hybrid is running 472Hp. It can only use the extra 200 horses for 6-8 seconds at most, which means it's used for passing only (as it is in F1). The reason it does so well in addition to is because it's more aerodynamic, lighter, & all-wheel drive.

AHHH, more information is released... better aerodynamics, lighter, and AWD. Oh, and it also has 200 more horsepower at the push of a button.

So what I just learned is that when you add horsepower and grip to an already fast car, and reduce it's weight in the process, the car becomes faster.

It seems to me that it's just a flat out fast car to begin with. You can remove the hybrid tech and add some other way to temporarily increase the horsepower by that amount and it would probably still dominate (as you've said that it does).

 

[McLaren]

You need to calm down and accept that when you say "it's clearly superior" that there might be a person or two who disagree and are willing to vocalize that disagreement. There's no need to break out the snide remarks and resort to the "you don't agree with me so clearly you're just skimming my post" attitude.

Then read what I just posted. I have told you the info, yet you seem to skim over, which in turn, I have to repost the same info again.

As far as horsepower goes.... you're going to tell me that an extra 300 or 400 horsepower wouldn't make a difference on a track with a single straight that's 1 1/3 miles long? ...a track that has several other very long straight power sections? ...in a chassis that's proven to be very competitive with the 911?

It is not the deciding the factor which is what you have constantly been implying. Again, if it was, why is Audi winning races against a more powerful Peugeot?

Why is this "temporary boost to 672 horsepower" technology superior to engine tech that can maintain a steady state 672 horsepower? A *stock* ZR1 makes almost that much horsepower and does so with a *warranty*.

Good god, are you really now comparing a production car to a race car? The GT3R Hybrid is superior to the ZR1 in every way on a race track. That's not more than just fact, it's common sense because the ZR1 isn't built to be a race car.

The GT3R Hybrid has also already run against the ZR1's race car counterpart anyway; the C6R which shares many parts with it. And it beat. From the back of the field. It went from 35th to 10th at Laguna Seca finishing just 1 lap behind the LMPs. It also beat the C6Rs running in Europe as well at the same VLN events.

So that's it? Because it's environmentally friendly? If that's why you think it's superior I'll concede and ask that you please be more specific when making "it's better" comments in the future.

I gave you a hint. If you're not going to research it further, I'm not going to bother bringing it up anymore if all you're going to do is question why it's being chosen by manufacturers.

AHHH, more information is released... better aerodynamics, lighter, and AWD. Oh, and it also has 200 more horsepower at the push of a button.

So what I just learned is that when you add horsepower and grip to an already fast car, and reduce it's weight in the process, the car becomes faster.

All that is possible because of the KERS system. KERS requires it to be AWD. KERS allows it to be more aerodynamic. KERS helps reduces the weight.

If KERS allows for Porsche to do that, it sounds to be that KERS does it allow it become a superior car to the GT3R.

It seems to me that it's just a flat out fast car to begin with. You can remove the hybrid tech and add some other way to temporarily increase the horsepower by that amount and it would probably still dominate (as you've said that it does).

And chances are it would not be able to achieve what KERS does.

 

[Short Bus]

We're going to have to agree to disagree, because I'm bored with this conversation and clearly I'm doing a poor job of narrowing my thoughts down to a simple point.

But one more thing to note, that you either don't know or are trying to gloss over.... the ZR1 your Porsche raced against was down 168 horsepower compared to the version you can buy on the showroom floor. I'm not letting you have your straw-man (even if it wasn't intentional).

Again, taking a fast, competitive car and making it faster doesn't mean the technology you used to make it faster is superior the technology the other guy could have used to make his car faster if he was allowed to use it. That's my bottom line.

 

[McLaren]

But one more thing to note, that you either don't know or are trying to gloss over.... the ZR1 your Porsche raced against was down 168 horsepower compared to the version you can buy on the showroom floor. I'm not letting you have your straw-man (even if it wasn't intentional).

So it was a 470Hp Corvette vs. a 470Hp 911. What am I missing unless you truly believe the 200 extra horses a car can only utilize for 6-8 seconds made the difference? KERS allowed to Porsche to do better for the reasons listed above, not just because it gave it an extra boost when it needed it. The ability to stop in near half the time was a huge plus to the car.

Again, from F1 has shown & the manufacturers decision to use it in production cars is a good indication KERS is a superior technology to whatever other means you can dream up of making the car faster, lighter, & more environmentally friendly. Otherwise, there would easily be an alternative means to regenerative braking technology to convert to power.

 

[Short Bus]

So it was a 470Hp Corvette vs. a 470Hp 911. What am I missing unless you truly believe the 200 extra horses a car can only utilize for 6-8 seconds made the difference? KERS allowed to Porsche to do better for the reasons listed above, not just because it gave it an extra boost when it needed it. The ability to stop in near half the time was a huge plus to the car.

It was a neutered 470 hp Corvette versus a lighter, AWD, aerodynamically enhanced 911 with a KITT turbo boost button worth an on-demand 200 hp.

So maybe instead of racing said Porsche against cars which are restricted by class regulations they should race it against cars that are pushing the envelope of whatever technologies they want to use to expand the performance envelope. .....or maybe they could at least race it against teams which are actually allowed to make their cars faster, rather than have to make them slower because they would dominate everybody if they were allowed to run what they were capable of.

 

[McLaren]

It was a neutered 470 hp Corvette versus a lighter, AWD, aerodynamically enhanced 911 with a KITT turbo boost button worth an on-demand 200 hp.

So maybe instead of racing said Porsche against cars which are restricted by class regulations they should race it against cars that are pushing the envelope of whatever technologies they want to use to expand the performance envelope. .....or maybe they could at least race it against teams which are actually allowed to make their cars faster, rather than have to make them slower because they would dominate everybody if they were allowed to run what they were capable of.

What's funny about your post is that a GT3R that was confined to the same rules the C6R was beat it, too.

And your rule restriction is getting old because it doesn't explain why an open league in Europe where the 2 have competed has ended in the same results.

But, I'm done with this. Now, you keep referring to ALMS when the best viable outcome of 2 equal Porsches, 1 with KERS & 1 without, showed KERS allowed the car to be superior in an open "run what ya brung" race, the one thing you posted before about you needing to see.

So, wait til' 2014 when Porsche, Toyota, Peugeot, & whoever else runs a hybrid race car at LeMans b/c they believe it is future of motorsports & will produce more efficient, faster cars.