New F1 Qualifying Format for 2016.

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It seems like a good way to shake up things, but the one thing I'm worried about is if teams find a silly tactic in there somewhere that blows the whole thing to pieces. But then again, hopefully the backroom boys will have the sense to nullify it the instant it comes up.
 
If I have to think up a knockout style, it would go something like this:

- All cars have to be on track at all times, unless you are knocked out
- Start with all cars out, allow every car to do one lap and put in 1 time
- Starting from lap 2, the slowest car will be eliminated
- Lap 3, the second slowest eliminated, and so on
- Eventually, on the final lap you only have the 2 fastest cars remaining for the pole shootout
- Fuel and tyre choice are free to add strategic element (run light and soft and risk losing speed later, or run heavy and hard for consistency, or mix it up?)

The only problem is, since we only have 22 cars, assuming 1 lap takes 1.5 minutes it would take 34.5 minutes to finish the whole quali. I don't think spectators are going to be happy with that. If lap times are 2 minutes it's gonna take a more reasonable 46 minutes, but it's still not enough to fill the hour.
 
C-ZETA
It seems like a good way to shake up things, but the one thing I'm worried about is if teams find a silly tactic in there somewhere that blows the whole thing to pieces. But then again, hopefully the backroom boys will have the sense to nullify it the instant it comes up.
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This is why it's under consideration before being presented to the WMSC; the teams are going to think through all the options for how a session might pan out.
 
The new qualification format has now been delayed to the spanish gp at the earliest.This is due to the new timing software has to be written, then tested and there is not enough time to this before the season starts.
 
shoemaker
The new qualification format has now been delayed to the spanish gp at the earliest.This is due to the new timing software has to be written, then tested and there is not enough time to this before the season starts.
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Whilst I like the idea of Elimination Qualifying sessions I am surprised they aren't bringing it in next year rather than this year.
 
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Dan Hill
Whilst I like the idea of Elimination Qualifying sessions I am surprised they aren't bringing it in next year rather than.
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Apparently the race organisers were the driving force behind it. Which is weird, because the last time organisers pushed for a change to make the sport more interesting, we got double points in Abu Dhabi. Given some of the reactions, it's pretty clear that the drivers weren't consulted.
 
If they are going to overhaul qualifying massively like this elimination system, I am VERY strongly against bringing it into play halfway through the season. Introduce it from the first race or not at all. It's equal to changing the points format halfway through the season to me, and without backdating the system to the races that have already been run. At least the teams and drivers knew about the double points finish in 2014 before the season started...
 
Sorry for double posting, thought this was relevant in it's own right.

Reading the article on Autosport about the delayed introduction of the system and saw Bernie Ecclestones quote:

Bernie Ecclestone
"All I'm trying to do is muddle up the grid so that the guy that is quickest in qualifying doesn't sit on pole and disappear, because why he should be slow in the race if he is quick in qualifying?"

"I wanted a very simple thing. I wanted qualifying to stay as it is, because it is good, and then if a guy is on pole and has won the last race, he gets so many seconds added to his time so he has to fight through the bloody pack to get in the lead, which he would do in the end.

"It would be exciting racing while he is doing it."

But Ecclestone claims it was vetoed by the teams as "they don't want to do reverse grids".
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Interested on what opinion is about this? I know BTCC have the weight ballast system, but I quite like this idea with a simple time penalty. Given how close qualifying can be, whole seconds would be completely unfair, but tenths of a second could work very nicely to level everyone across a season. It would be far less complicated to follow than the elimination system as well I think (without having seen either in the flesh). It doesn't affect the race itself other than mixing up the order at the start, and likewise it isn't just "reverse grid" either since your position is positively affected by how fast your time is still. I'm not sure when I've ever agreed to anything suggested by Bernie Ecclestone before... I might need to go and sit down for a while!
 
Read the idea again, it isn't just reverse grid. Otherwise I agree it would be about who could lap the slowest. Bernie's proposal was to add time to a drivers laptime in qualifying based on previous qualifying performances (and he used race performance as well - I'd prefer to keep that out of this personally). It is similar to the grid penalties we see currently, only they make it impossible to qualify better than the number of grid positions you will lose. Here, it is feasible that a driver could overcome their deficit and still take pole position.
 
Sorry, yes it was a direct reply to your post above it @TenEightyOne

The "driving to a delta" theory only works if it is a direct reversal of the grid, as opposed to adding time to someones time. Thinking again about it, are you meaning drivers would be trying to beat their opponents by the smallest margins in order to rediuce future penalties? I hadn't considered that - so if you snatch pole by 0.5s, your penalty at the next race would be 0.5s? I thought it would simply be qualifying on pole adds 0.25s to your season index, and on a sliding scale down through the top 10. Everyone in Q2 is unaffected, and all out in Q3 get a small amount of time removed from their index.

There is no reason not to push as much as possible like they currently do. If you qualify on pole by 3 seconds, it is still only going to add 0.25s to your time at the next race. And being a known value before qualifying starts would make it very easy to show in live timing.
 
Pezzarinho17
Sorry, yes it was a direct reply to your post above it @TenEightyOne

The "driving to a delta" theory only works if it is a direct reversal of the grid, as opposed to adding time to someones time. Thinking again about it, are you meaning drivers would be trying to beat their opponents by the smallest margins in order to rediuce future penalties? I hadn't considered that - so if you snatch pole by 0.5s, your penalty at the next race would be 0.5s? I thought it would simply be qualifying on pole adds 0.25s to your season index, and on a sliding scale down through the top 10. Everyone in Q2 is unaffected, and all out in Q3 get a small amount of time removed from their index.

There is no reason not to push as much as possible like they currently do. If you qualify on pole by 3 seconds, it is still only going to add 0.25s to your time at the next race. And being a known value before qualifying starts would make it very easy to show in live timing.
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The quote you showed didn't have any of that detail. The logic was that if a driver took pole and had won the previous race then they would receive a penalty. That was the logic that I replied to... drivers would avoid taking pole in those express circumstances.
 
shoemaker
The new qualification format has now been delayed to the spanish gp at the earliest.This is due to the new timing software has to be written, then tested and there is not enough time to this before the season starts.
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Can't be that hard can it? tin foil hat on
 
sems4arsenal
Can't be that hard can it? tin foil hat on
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The testing, perhaps... the best test is in a live scenario and we won't have one of those, however good an idea it might be. Waiting until Spain does seem excessive though.
 
TenEightyOne
The testing, perhaps... the best test is in a live scenario and we won't have one of those, however good an idea it might be. Waiting until Spain does seem excessive though.
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Yeah I'm not buying it, honestly with how much money there is in the sport, software for something that on paper atleast sounds simple seems fishy.
 
sems4arsenal
Yeah I'm not buying it, honestly with how much money there is in the sport, software for something that on paper atleast sounds simple seems fishy.
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A possible explanation is that the teams want to see how their pace stacks up in Australia before committing to a decision... if it turns out that some have made significant gains then they may be unwilling to rock the boat.
 
I'm at odds with this software problem and i'm fairly on the fence about it.

I think it's really stupid that the software wasn't able to be developed/created to ensure it was ready for the start of the start of the season. Surely, it would just literally be an addition of a few lines of code in the existing system.

However, I really really hate the new system and find it pointlessly gimmicky so I thank the FIA's programmers for being slow with the complete implementation of it.

For all we know, the real reason is that the programmers of this are purposefully being slow in order to cause the delay of this new qualifying system. Unlikely though.
 
Romain Grosjean says exactly what I've been saying all along: with the current tire regulations, the new system won't make much of a difference.
"The only consequence is that all the teams will hit the track early in the qualifying to get a laptime and go back to the pits to wait, because we don't have more tyres than before, so we're not going to run more than before"

"If the idea is for cars to run more, we'll need more tyres in qualifying. As you need to get a laptime in the first five minutes, and the worst laptime gets eliminated every 90 seconds, the laptimes will be done in the first three minutes."
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http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/grosjean-says-overhauled-2017-f1-cars-wont-be-sexier-675861/
 
This new rule is child's play to me. Sure it would spice things up, but so would machine guns on the front of the cars. Over complication of a system that wasnt broken before and an utterly ridiculous solution. If they want more running, they need more tyres or better tyres that aren't only good for one or two hard laps.
 
I'd say there's probably an element of arguing over who's going to cover the cost of developing code for this new system of qualifying in this delay. After reading what Grosjean had to say about this, I'm pretty much against the idea now.
 
Dan Hill
Whilst I like the idea of Elimination Qualifying sessions I am surprised they aren't bringing it in next year rather than.
Click to expand...
i think it will be next year....if at all. Bernie has said he does not want this,most driver have said the same so its a case of watch this space
 
DK
After reading what Grosjean had to say about this, I'm pretty much against the idea now.
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I agree with much of what he said there... I still think we'll see more cars running in each session, particularly if the track gains speed. Waiting until the end of a session won't be an option if drivers are eliminated throughout each session.
 
shoemaker
i think it will be next year....if at all. Bernie has said he does not want this,most driver have said the same so its a case of watch this space
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Just file this idea in the same category as random sprinklers on track and North Korea Grand Prix.
 
Ferrari isn't so happy with the new qualification setup.

Marchionne has called on to other teams to rethink the situation.
 
The new format sounds like it just wants cars on track every second, but when you have 21 other cars out there with you trying to go over the knockout zone every 5 minutes or so, it's not so hard to get held up by at least one of them.
 

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