POLL: Will you buy a PS4 for GTS?

[Johnnypenso]

GTS is GT7, they just changed the name according to Kaz. Considering the investment I think it is right for you to wait and see, GTS will need to be amazing to convince anyone to spend that kind of money. The wheel isn't a big issue because you could sell the G27 to help fund a PS4 compatible wheel and any of them are an upgrade from a G27 and will still be compatible with your PC games but after you consider the cost of a PS4 the wheel upgrade and a copy of GTS plus a PS+ account that's a considerable amount of money. On the other hand I recently got the boys PS4's and now that I have played them I'm a convert, I actually prefer gaming on a PS4 to PC and I didn't think I would, even the very slight drop in graphics quality doesn't bother me at all, I think it is too small to care about and when I think about the money I have spent on PC gaming over the last few years I think that is money that may have been better spent on PS4 gaming but then I wouldn't have been able to play iRacing. So now iRacing is the only reason I still have a gaming PC. Now that iRacing has raised their prices and GTS is coming out I'm considering giving up iRacing and PC gaming completely.

That's not what Kaz said. He said based on the amount of work and features they included they could have called it Gran Turismo 7. Emphasis on could have. That's marketing speak for, "I know you guys think this isn't a lot of output for 3 years of development but we worked really hard to ignore the small car and track count like you're used to in all out other games lately and please pay full price for this" Nowhere has Kaz or anyone else connected with the franchise said or even hinted that GTSport is a replacement for GT7.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I've been thinking about this question over the weekend and what would push me towards to wanting to get a PS4 for GT Sport is if PD actually made the presentation of their game at least look somewhat exciting. I brought this up in the general discussion thread, but I want to go into more detail about it here.

Ever since GT5 came out 6 years ago, I've been looking at reasons why the GT games as of late haven't held my interest the same way as the GT games from the PS1 and PS2 era. One crucial factor that I realized that has been neglected are the menus.

Gran Turismo has always had a professional style about it, but the problem is that I think it's become too formal for its own good. Racing is supposed to be an exciting experience, and GT Sport isn't doing a good job of conveying that. I also revisted GT3 and GT4 over the weekend, and looking back, I believe this trend began with GT4, but it was only slight. It didn't become noticable to me until GT5 and beyond.

To illustrate what I mean, here's a video of the track selection menu from GT3.



Notice that the very first thing you see when you enter that track menu, are a group of race cars rushing around a corner on Super Speedway at high speed. It immediately grabs your attention. I said this before and I'll say it again, PD used their renowned camera work here and actually showed various cars racing around each highlighted track, to build anticipation. That's the key. The menu in general was also colorful and bright.

In contrast, here are two videos that shows the selection menu in GT Sport.





First off the whole theme is just dull and uninteresting. It's briefly shown but you can see the track selection menu at the beginning of these videos. When highlighting a track, the game just shows a zooming out shot of your car on that track. And during the loading screen, it then shows your car cruising down the track at 50 mph, by itself, with static camera angles. This is bland to look at. There's no dynamic theme going on or passion like in the GT3 menu. How is this display supposed to get anyone amped up to race in the slightest?

Ask yourself, between GT3 and GT Sport, which game looks more exciting to play based on those menus? Honestly, if GT Sport had a menu style like GT3, that alone would make me more excited for this game instead of feeling apathetic about it. It wouldn't single-handedly make me want to get the game of course. There are things that I need to see addressed like AI. But it still would be a step in the right direction. Having a map style menu like GT1-4 did would also help. I don't know why it was ever abandoned. It was unique and I can't think of any other racing game that had something like it. PD certainly hasn't done anything engaging with these block-style menus that have been around since GT5.

Lastly, the reason why I'm putting so much importance on menu design, is because you are forced to interact with the menus before you even actually play the game. So they can make powerful first impressions.

 

[7HO]

That's not what Kaz said. He said based on the amount of work and features they included they could have called it Gran Turismo 7. Emphasis on could have. That's marketing speak for, "I know you guys think this isn't a lot of output for 3 years of development but we worked really hard to ignore the small car and track count like you're used to in all out other games lately and please pay full price for this" Nowhere has Kaz or anyone else connected with the franchise said or even hinted that GTSport is a replacement for GT7.

I don't think you have watched all the recent interviews with Kaz, he has been saying recently this is not a spin off, it is a new direction for the series and he said the reason they did not call this GT7 and instead called it GTS was because he wanted to draw attention to the sport aspect. He has further clarified this by saying GTS is the next generation in the series, he said GT1 to GT6 was the first generation and GTS is the start of the new generation.

@Master Weasel I didn't like the old menu system and from what I have seen of the GTS menu system I think I prefer it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't think you have watched all the recent interviews with Kaz, he has been saying recently this is not a spin off, it is a new direction for the series and he said the reason they did not call this GT7 and instead called it GTS was because he wanted to draw attention to the sport aspect. He has further clarified this by saying GTS is the next generation in the series, he said GT1 to GT6 was the first generation and GTS is the start of the new generation.

@Master Weasel I didn't like the old menu system and from what I have seen of the GTS menu system I think I prefer it.

Assuming for a moment that you are directly quoting or paraphrasing accurately, none of what you said is an indication that GTSport is GT7. It can be a new direction for the series, not a spin off and also not GT7 at the same time simply by branching out GT into two separate series with different focuses. Has Kaz said anywhere, "GTSport is GT7"?, or, "There will be no GT7 only GTSport"? or words to that effect?

 

[7HO]

Assuming for a moment that you are directly quoting or paraphrasing accurately, none of what you said is an indication that GTSport is GT7. It can be a new direction for the series, not a spin off and also not GT7 at the same time simply by branching out GT into two separate series with different focuses. Has Kaz said anywhere, "GTSport is GT7"?, or, "There will be no GT7 only GTSport"? or words to that effect?

I've seen so much and I'm not going to dig through each and every interview to find the best quotes but even if you just look at his response in the Gamespot and IGN interview I think it is clear when you listen to the entire reply and do not take simple phrases out of context.

So what I am hearing in those interviews is this is a full scale release and was never intended as anything else, that this has as much content (his words) as former numbered releases and that he could have called it GT7 but the reason he didn't is because it is the start of a new generation and he wanted the focus to be on the sport aspect of the game. As I said he has made it clear this is not a spin off, it is the next full release in the regular GT series, it is the next full release after GT6 and that the name was selected because GT6 is the end of an era and this is the start of a new era.

So I can't recall him saying anywhere that there will never be a title called GT7 but I'm sure he is aware that if he brought out GT7 after the comments he has made he will be perceived as a liar because GTS will never be able to be considered a full release sitting in between two numbered titles and the very naming scheme then implies that GT6 wasn't actually the end of a generation.

To me his statements are clear and I can see they are not so clear to you but they are clear to me, the logical conclusion is there can be no GT7 ever because GT6 was the last title in that generation of GT and they have moved away from the direction that the numbered series represents and GTS is the new generation of GT titles.

Of course I must present a disclaimer. From what I have seen of Kaz it seems anything he says is possibly completely unreliable, I believe that whatever he says is true to him in that moment but his truth may completely change later so even though I believe in his statements for now I believe they are reliant on GTS performing well, perhaps if it is a flop he will review the situation and decide fans actually want another title in the numbered series and perhaps he will bring out GT7 in the future as a more offline focused game. That is a very real possibility because at this stage no one knows how much of a market there is for this GTS product and no one knows if whatever direction he takes will be the right one, for example just from the off screen driving I have seen from E3 when I compare it to off screen videos of AC at E3 GTS looks like the physics have been very dumbed down. Because I know how realistic AC is when I see from those videos that GTS is so much easier for anyone to drive and especially at the same track the Nordschleife when I see videos of people at E3 easily racing around there on GTS with no serious moments and mistakes only resulting in a minor off into the grass but easily recoverable I am really worried for the direction of the game. You don't need to be an expert to see that the driving and consequences in those videos is completely unrealistic, just watch lots of videos of real life at that track on youtube and it becomes clear which is realistic and which is not. So at the moment it seems like Kaz is more focussed on making the game easy rather than realistic and if that is what is released it remains to be seen how people react to this as the future of Motorsport.

It may pay off and sell well, it may be the element that causes the game to fail or there may just not be a big market for such a title. No one really knows and if it is a flop I'm sure they will re-evaluate and we might even see a GT7, but if this turns out to be successful I very much doubt we will ever see a game called GT7 and future games if there are any will be sequels to this game but I even think the timing of release and the new business model could potentially see every game in the future using the same name. They could very well just ride out the rest of the PS4 cycle selling additional content for GTS, then on the PS5 there would be no reason they couldn't use the same name again and sell the same game essentially with more substantial features. They could potentially turn the game into a subscription game at that point. I'd be surprised if there is another GTS game on the PS4 as it really looks like this game will be pushing the PS4 to its limits and there will be no room for new features like dynamic conditions.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I've seen so much and I'm not going to dig through each and every interview to find the best quotes but even if you just look at his response in the Gamespot and IGN interview I think it is clear when you listen to the entire reply and do not take simple phrases out of context.

So what I am hearing in those interviews is this is a full scale release and was never intended as anything else, that this has as much content (his words) as former numbered releases and that he could have called it GT7 but the reason he didn't is because it is the start of a new generation and he wanted the focus to be on the sport aspect of the game. As I said he has made it clear this is not a spin off, it is the next full release in the regular GT series, it is the next full release after GT6 and that the name was selected because GT6 is the end of an era and this is the start of a new era.

So I can't recall him saying anywhere that there will never be a title called GT7 but I'm sure he is aware that if he brought out GT7 after the comments he has made he will be perceived as a liar because GTS will never be able to be considered a full release sitting in between two numbered titles and the very naming scheme then implies that GT6 wasn't actually the end of a generation.

To me his statements are clear and I can see they are not so clear to you but they are clear to me, the logical conclusion is there can be no GT7 ever because GT6 was the last title in that generation of GT and they have moved away from the direction that the numbered series represents and GTS is the new generation of GT titles.

Of course I must present a disclaimer. From what I have seen of Kaz it seems anything he says is possibly completely unreliable, I believe that whatever he says is true to him in that moment but his truth may completely change later so even though I believe in his statements for now I believe they are reliant on GTS performing well, perhaps if it is a flop he will review the situation and decide fans actually want another title in the numbered series and perhaps he will bring out GT7 in the future as a more offline focused game. That is a very real possibility because at this stage no one knows how much of a market there is for this GTS product and no one knows if whatever direction he takes will be the right one, for example just from the off screen driving I have seen from E3 when I compare it to off screen videos of AC at E3 GTS looks like the physics have been very dumbed down. Because I know how realistic AC is when I see from those videos that GTS is so much easier for anyone to drive and especially at the same track the Nordschleife when I see videos of people at E3 easily racing around there on GTS with no serious moments and mistakes only resulting in a minor off into the grass but easily recoverable I am really worried for the direction of the game. You don't need to be an expert to see that the driving and consequences in those videos is completely unrealistic, just watch lots of videos of real life at that track on youtube and it becomes clear which is realistic and which is not. So at the moment it seems like Kaz is more focussed on making the game easy rather than realistic and if that is what is released it remains to be seen how people react to this as the future of Motorsport.

Once again, "full release", "could have been called GT7" etc. could all be true and it still doesn't preclude a GT7 being released. With no direct evidence or statements to the contrary you're just making a grand assumption from nothing. If you assume instead that GT7 will be released and that GTSport is simply a "Pro Mode" version of the game, all the statements make just as much sense.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

Once again, "full release", "could have been called GT7" etc. could all be true and it still doesn't preclude a GT7 being released. With no direct evidence or statements to the contrary you're just making a grand assumption from nothing. If you assume instead that GT7 will be released and that GTSport is simply a "Pro Mode" version of the game, all the statements make just as much sense.

Tend to agree.
More often than not he mentions the direction of sport with the FIA and esports, or highlighting the new 'Sport mode', as the reasoning behind why he called it 'Sport' and not '7'.
To conclude from that that there will be no more numbered iterations of GT to me is an over-reach.

 

[cocoflowa]

I would say that Kaz's claim that GTS is GT7 is just PR and anything else. Why don't they call it GT7: Sport instead GT Sport if/whether (I don't know) it's GT7? If it's GT7 then must be GT8 or GTS2 after Sport. And GT7 will never come.

 

[7HO]

Once again, "full release", "could have been called GT7" etc. could all be true and it still doesn't preclude a GT7 being released. With no direct evidence or statements to the contrary you're just making a grand assumption from nothing. If you assume instead that GT7 will be released and that GTSport is simply a "Pro Mode" version of the game, all the statements make just as much sense.

Tend to agree.
More often than not he mentions the direction of sport with the FIA and esports, or highlighting the new 'Sport mode', as the reasoning behind why he called it 'Sport' and not '7'.
To conclude from that that there will be no more numbered iterations of GT to me is an over-reach.

You guys really are missing the point and I tend to think you didn't go back and watch both replies in full again. He says Gran Turismo Sport is the next full title in the series, he says it isn't a spin off, he says it is a new direction, this is the full release title after GT6 and he also states that they could have called it GT7 (for those reasons obviously). I find it really hard to see how it isn't clear to you that this is GT7 with a different name. It isn't a prologue, it isn't a spin off, it isn't an in between title, he has made all those things clear but it is a change of direction from the series, that makes it clear that there will not be 2 different branches of GT. I don't understand how it can be made clearer for you.

Obviously he hasn't (that I know of) said outright that there will never be a title called GT7 but it would absolutely not make sense because this is the next full release after GT6 and it isn't a branch it is a change of direction which makes it GT7 which he said he could have called it but didn't because he wanted to make it clear what this game actually is, a change of direction, the start of a new era that focuses on Sport. He also said GT1 to GT6 was the first generation and that GTS is the beginning of the new generation, clearly that implies GT6 is the end of an era and that it will not be followed up with a title that continues that era. Because if he did continue the first era alongside the second era that would make this a spin off and if he released GT7 as a more featured title that includes the Sport mode that would make GTS an in between title that will be accurately perceived as less than a full featured numbered game or comparable to a prologue.

So I think that the reality is he can't bring out a GT7 after making those comments. If he remains true to what he said then the next full release will be a follow up to GTS not GT6 otherwise that would make GTS a branch or a spin off which he said it is not. If he remains true to what he said GTS is the 7th full release in the series so if the next title had a number it would be GT8 and if he was to call the next title GT7 that would confirm to everyone this was either an in between game or a spin off and that Kaz lied.

So logically if he is being honest in those interviews then he told us there can be no GT7 and GTS is actually GT7 but not called GT7 because he just wanted to make it clear what this game was.

Something everyone needs to understand is that does not exclude a future title returning features people missed in this title. But if he brought out a game called GT7 now that he has said the things he has said it would be one of the most remembered wrongs PD has committed

 

[cocoflowa]

You guys really are missing the point and I tend to think you didn't go back and watch both replies in full again. He says Gran Turismo Sport is the next full title in the series, he says it isn't a spin off, he says it is a new direction, this is the full release title after GT6 and he also states that they could have called it GT7 (for those reasons obviously). I find it really hard to see how it isn't clear to you that this is GT7 with a different name. It isn't a prologue, it isn't a spin off, it isn't an in between title, he has made all those things clear but it is a change of direction from the series, that makes it clear that there will not be 2 different branches of GT. I don't understand how it can be made clearer for you.

Obviously he hasn't (that I know of) said outright that there will never be a title called GT7 but it would absolutely not make sense because this is the next full release after GT6 and it isn't a branch it is a change of direction which makes it GT7 which he said he could have called it but didn't because he wanted to make it clear what this game actually is, a change of direction, the start of a new era that focuses on Sport. He also said GT1 to GT6 was the first generation and that GTS is the beginning of the new generation, clearly that implies GT6 is the end of an era and that it will not be followed up with a title that continues that era. Because if he did continue the first era alongside the second era that would make this a spin off and if he released GT7 as a more featured title that includes the Sport mode that would make GTS an in between title that will be accurately perceived as less than a full featured numbered game or comparable to a prologue.

So I think that the reality is he can't bring out a GT7 after making those comments. If he remains true to what he said then the next full release will be a follow up to GTS not GT6 otherwise that would make GTS a branch or a spin off which he said it is not. If he remains true to what he said GTS is the 7th full release in the series so if the next title had a number it would be GT8 and if he was to call the next title GT7 that would confirm to everyone this was either an in between game or a spin off and that Kaz lied.

So logically if he is being honest in those interviews then he told us there can be no GT7 and GTS is actually GT7 but not called GT7 because he just wanted to make it clear what this game was.

Something everyone needs to understand is that does not exclude a future title returning features people missed in this title. But if he brought out a game called GT7 now that he has said the things he has said it would be one of the most remembered wrongs PD has committed

So you want to say GT sport is a new start for GT7,8,9 etc.?

 

[7HO]

So you want to say GT sport is a new start for GT7,8,9 etc.?

No, not exactly. What I am saying is the logical conclusion from what Kaz has said is there can be no GT7 and we have GTS instead. You could easily call this GT7 and it would be accurate to do so as this is the 7th full release title in the Gran Turismo series, even if the official name is not GT7 this is Gran Turismo 7.

 

[cocoflowa]

No, not exactly. What I am saying is the logical conclusion from what Kaz has said is there can be no GT7 and we have GTS instead. You could easily call this GT7 and it would be accurate to do so as this is the 7th full release title in the Gran Turismo series, even if the official name is not GT7 this is Gran Turismo 7.

But before Jim Ryan said GTS is not GT7. We will be cleverer after the release.

 

[Samus]

You guys really are missing the point and I tend to think you didn't go back and watch both replies in full again. He says Gran Turismo Sport is the next full title in the series, he says it isn't a spin off, he says it is a new direction, this is the full release title after GT6 and he also states that they could have called it GT7 (for those reasons obviously). I find it really hard to see how it isn't clear to you that this is GT7 with a different name. It isn't a prologue, it isn't a spin off, it isn't an in between title, he has made all those things clear but it is a change of direction from the series, that makes it clear that there will not be 2 different branches of GT. I don't understand how it can be made clearer for you.

What I don't understand is how you can't fathom that PR talk is a thing and not everything developers say is the absolute truth. They say what needs to be said to market the games. They're wanting to charge $60 for it so of course he's going to come out and say it's a full title, it'd be rather silly to say otherwise even though the simple facts show this has a lot less content than any other 'full' GT game before. Yes I know, it's a new chapter, yada yada, again it's most likely part truth, part PR marketing talk.

By all means, believe everything that is said verbatim and believe that going forward GT Sport is the only format that will exist for GT, a virtually online-only eSports focused title with significantly less content than any other full size GT game. I on the other hand will read between the lines and realise there is no way this is it going forward for the franchise that has sold 70 million copies appealing to the huge casual market.

 

[ribloGT]

Kaz said he COULD have called GTS GT7 cause GTS it's a full Title (130 cars and 19 tracks is a full title)...
Why GTS and non GT7?
Cause this is not a Real GT as we Know but a spinoff that has the GT flavour but it's aimed to a different target (online Racing)...
Like Forza Motorsport has 2 spinoffs called Horizon (track Racing vs freeroaming) and NFS has 3 spinoffs called Prostreet and Shift (clandestine urban Racing vs track Racing)...

This is what i see in Kaz words... So i think there Will be a proper GT7 more focussed on va collecting and offline career...

 

[C_Raccoon23]

EDIT: Delete

 

[7HO]

But before Jim Ryan said GTS is not GT7. We will be cleverer after the release.

Source?

First of all Jim Ryan is not the spokesman for PD so he is not a definitive source of information and can be excused for a mistake. Second all I can find is that Eurogamer interpreted something he said as that but he is not quoted by them as saying that, he is quoted as saying something different “We’re not announcing Gran Turismo 7 at this stage,”. Third to what he actually said we can add that last year Kaz said “The old days, when the games were offline, the experience was defined by what’s on the disc. You had a distinction between a Prologue and a full GT, it was very stark. When the game becomes more of an online connected experience, that distinction blurs. This will be much more than a Prologue type experience.” and this year we can find this “No, I’m quite sure it’s going to be a true GT7 – (correcting self) It’s not called that. But I’m quite sure that it’s really going to be dedicated to eSports because of the FIA partnership.” here https://www.gtplanet.net/could-gran-turismo-sport-be-bumped-to-2017/

What I don't understand is how you can't fathom that PR talk is a thing and not everything developers say is the absolute truth. They say what needs to be said to market the games. They're wanting to charge $60 for it so of course he's going to come out and say it's a full title, it'd be rather silly to say otherwise even though the simple facts show this has a lot less content than any other 'full' GT game before. Yes I know, it's a new chapter, yada yada, again it's most likely part truth, part PR marketing talk.

By all means, believe everything that is said verbatim and believe that going forward GT Sport is the only format that will exist for GT, a virtually online-only eSports focused title with significantly less content than any other full size GT game. I on the other hand will read between the lines and realise there is no way this is it going forward for the franchise that has sold 70 million copies appealing to the huge casual market.

There is a difference between not the absolute truth and a straight up lie. If a manufacturer says we are making a circle and it in fact turns out to be a triangle that isn't PR speak, that is a lie. You can't claim something as a full release if it is not a full release and it doesn't matter what you think it is or what you think it is missing it doesn't change this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Turismo_(series)#Releases this is what the developers have said, this is their gospel so now the next full release title will be the 8th full release title according to them, in other words this is GT7. If they bring out a tatle named GT7 after this unless they change their position and say this is not a full release then GT7 will be the 8th Gran Turismo so GT7 would be GT8 but called GT7 if that happened. It isn't PR talk, I know everyone desperately wants it to be PR talk, I know everyone wants there to be a GT7 with the features they want but I have already stated why the path they have taken with this title is the obvious path but In a moment I'll recap that because that comment is buried deep in another thread.

You can choose to read what isn't actually between the lines if you want but at this point there is no longer anything hinting at what you want, hey I really thought they would go down that path too, I really thought this was a spin off title and honestly there wouldn't have been an issue if they kept on following through with that, if they had the intention of releasing the GT7 some people want then they could have easily said "we are currently focused on GTS with plans to continue support and adding content as DLC beyond release, we have no plans to announce in regards to releasing a title called GT7 at this stage as we are focused on GTS so people should not expect a numbered release in the near future". If they said something like that it wouldn't hurt GTS sales and it also wouldn't rule out the type of game that some people are hoping for in the future but that is not what they said and as I have shown what they have said does logically exclude a future release of a title called GT7. It can never be written off as PR speak now, it is either true or a lie.

Cause this is not a Real GT as we Know but a spinoff that has the GT flavour but it's aimed to a different target (online Racing)...

No he has said outright that this is not a spin off.

Like Forza Motorsport has 2 spinoffs called Horizon

He also said that he would never do a spin off like Forza have done with Horizon.

@Samus Now to what I said I would talk about earlier.

It is easy to see how Kaz considers this a full release and he has actually said similar to what I will mention here but it is very easy to see why he considers this a fully featured title and worthy to be considered and sold as a fully featured title. First I'll repeat the quote I posted above

“The old days, when the games were offline, the experience was defined by what’s on the disc. You had a distinction between a Prologue and a full GT, it was very stark. When the game becomes more of an online connected experience, that distinction blurs. This will be much more than a Prologue type experience.” Kaz said.

I know you will point out that GT5 and GT6 had an online mode but read again what he said "more of an online connected experience", clearly he thinks GTS is much more than what we have seen before and I agree as I'll explain below. But before we get there just read the opening words and think of this in combination with his comments regarding the old generation and the start of a new generation “The old days, when the games were offline, the experience was defined by what’s on the disc.", I think it is probably time to give up hope of the offline experience you are wishing for.

Now lets look at why this is worthy of being considered a full release.

• A much more complex and fully featured online system than any previous GT release and one that is comparable to the total experience of a much more expensive iRacing.
• Many more stand alone features than iRacing and much more user friendly and well implemented features (I know what you might be thinking but this is an accurate statement even based only on what we currently know)
• A content count comparable to other modern releases.

Lets look at those features

• A more advanced offline mode that trains the driver but also rates the driver for the purpose of multiplayer matchmaking. (more complex and improved over previous games)
• Arcade Mode, offline (standard feature but vital for an online racing game for the purpose testing and practice)
• Livery Editor (new long awaited feature)
• Scapes (new feature that Kaz seems to think is a very substantial feature so possibly complex to implement and something he is clearly very proud of)
• Advanced social function (this one is big for me and it is a feature I am excited for and I hope is popular, it is something I have long wished iRacing could implement well but something I don't think they are capable of delivering anytime soon)
• Standard Online Racing (same as before)
• Improved FFB (okay this one is a stretch and let's not get hung up on it but I'm including it here ((as an educated guess which I have proven I'm very good at)) because the new GT wheel is direct drive and what we know from direct drive owner reports is games other than iRacing actually feel off with direct drive steering so the FFB needs to be good now that people will have DD steering. If you don't want to accept the FFB just file this as DD support instead which is massive on its own)
• Official FIA and Polyphony race series with increased fields running on premium servers with advanced matchmaking (a massively complex project, a substantial service that no one has ever offered on console before, could be a stand alone game with no other features if released by anyone else and would be praised as ground breaking.)
• Virtual Reality. (extremely difficult project due to the hardware and requirements and probably the main reason for having to rebuild tracks and cars which makes this a completely new game)
• Improved Physics (to be taken seriously on the next point potentially a substantial project to come from where they were to where they need to be)
• Considered as a real next gen Motorsport by FIA (potentially the biggest thing to ever happen to Sim racing and potentially a pivotal moment in the history of motor racing. If this pays off no one will remember iRacing as having a go at it earlier, if it pays off Polyphony will be responsible for legitimising sim racing as a real sport and as a legitimate Motorsport. (this was and still is clearly a massive task, it also is something I think no one expected to happen this soon or on console for that matter)

Clearly they still have to make it work and clearly they can so easily get the balance wrong. Clearly they are paving new ground and they can't even be sure if this will pay off for them or if it is even marketable. But this is potentially the biggest moment in sim racing ever and it is a monumental moment if it works. If it is successful you are looking at the beginning of the future of Motorsports so it isn't just a massive moment for sim racing.

Okay last time you all said I was making a lot of assumptions but now those assumptions have been confirmed and now the only thing we need to wait and see is if they can deliver what they have said they will and if it will be popular or unpopular.

Okay now to the part I promised, why did PD leave out that bit you want and why is this still a fully featured title without it? Leaving out the old offline career progression is the right decision to make in this title, everything that is currently in the title has a place leading this to be a complete and well rounded title as long as the features are well implemented and critical sim features like FOV adjustments for people racing on monitors on TV's are also included just to name one. There simply is no place for the old offline mode as it runs the risk of being detrimental to the service they are trying to deliver and would compete with the primary feature of the game. Instead they have made a career out of online play to replace the former offline career.

Now the offline progression will play a vital part to the online career and that is why it is mandatory. Not only will it attempt to shape the attitude of the driver and change our old bad habits but it will rate the driver so they can be accurately placed with similar drivers so everyone no matter what level or attitude can have fun with this game. Kaz has even said it himself, in GTS the wreckers can go play with the wreckers. Rather than take the approach of other online racing services by banning this behaviour PD is catering for everyone, they are essentially saying do whatever you want and have fun your way and we will find others like you to have fun with, why has no one thought of this before? There doesn't need to be a punitive system, instead a nuetral matchmaking system can ensure this is a racing game for anyone and everyone, genius!

Then the arcade mode is essential because it can be used for practice and development through testing.

I am not exactly excited about the implementation of the standard online mode, I think it is a let down as announced and I was hoping to at least hear the ability to pay for premium servers with higher number and features more suitable to serious leagues. Hopefully they will surprise me in the future. However a good online mode is essential to an online racer so another important feature.

Social functions. Not only a great additional feature but potentially an important feature in a game that is claiming to be the future of Motorsport. Real Motorsport should include a social platform where people can stand out, promote themselves and a place where a community can thrive and where people can follow personalities and careers they are interested in and where friendships can grown and friends can interact. A community aspect can be an important factor in the success of the service but also an essential promotional platform for what is trying to become a professional and legitimate sport.

Scapes. I must say i have no interest in this at all but I can see the appeal and clearly car porn has a place in a serious title such as this one.

Livery editor. This is a must have feature in a serious Motorsport and clearly something that is long overdue.

Damage. I didn't include it above because we don't know if it is good yet, I'm hoping it is well implemented and good, I'm sure Polyphony understand that to be taken seriously as the future of Motorsport the days of bumpercar racing need to be over.

Improved Physics. Clearly needed again to be taken seriously and now looking more promising after John Sabol's comments.

Virtual Reality. The beginning of the future and now that Playstation has VR this is the perfect marriage for VR. Also if you are competing against the current King of this genre you better come to the table with as many comparable features as possible, VR is essential for this title.

FIA Motorsport. This is what it is all about, this alone makes this a full featured title, this alone makes this the greatest thing ever. Sure the jaded will think of this as another PR stunt but whether this turns out to be a dud feature or truly the future of Motorsports relies very much on the shoulders of the people. There is no reaon for this to be a dud and put it this way, this is the substance of the game and if this is a dud the whole thing is a dud and a complete and utter failure. It will not be a dud unless no one plays it, if no one enjoys and plays it this game will be a monumental failure, either way this game is a game that will be remembered for a very long time, good or bad. But if this delivers we are actually looking at the beginning of the future of Motorsports!

And again I know you probably think this is a bold claim based on my hopes but it isn't that at all, it is the logical progression. If this turns out to be a popular thing then because this is officially considered an official FIA Motorsport what we are looking at here is the biggest Motorsports competition the world has ever seen. This is a significant moment for Motorsports because around the world Motorsports is dying, if this fails it may be a sign that Motorsports is doomed, if it thrives, we are looking at the future.

And how is all this relevant to this thread. I'm sure there will be sceptics but if like me you are a hopeful believer then perhaps you should wait just a bit longer to be a little more sure but if signs continue to look good then a bit closer to release this is absolutely a title that is worth buying a PS4 for. The sceptics may want to wait until after release but if it works out this will be a must buy sim.

I think this is the biggest post I have ever written. I'm expecting a cheque Kaz

 

[ribloGT]

7HO...
You are building a castle on a single sentence Kaz said...
GTS is not GT7 or it would be called GT7... Period... GTS is GTS... PD can male a game called GT7 even Tomorrow...

 

[Samus]

Yeah I'm not reading all that, sorry. All I will say based on the first part is there isn't a dictionary definition of a 'full release' game. Kaz can claim whatever he likes for any game, nobody can call him a liar or prove him wrong. You can still have it be a 'full release' title but not GT7. Forza Horizon (the first one) was a full Forza game but it didn't mean the next numbered game skipped a number to account for it.

I'm sure there are other examples of 'full release' games with different names followed by a return to numbers and they don't skip one.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

*Snip*
monster post

I do have one question for you because I've seen you say this a few times, but I can't recall hearing it myself.
Do you remember where you heard Kaz say this isn't a spin-off?

Anyway.
So let's say the next game from PD has a lot of the old game elements.
Big car numbers - not classified (BoP'd) into groups like Prototype, GT3, GT4 - but just cars.
Tuning shop/Custom parts to add all sorts of goodies - power upgrades, spoilers, wheels, etc.
Old school career with Novice, National A, International A etc.
B-Spec.
Course Maker.
Special Events like Sierra or Goodwood.
etc. etc.

Do you think they would call that game GT Sport 2?
Or do you think they will never make another game like that again?

 

[7HO]

You are building a castle on a single sentence Kaz said...

Which sentence do you think that is? Here's a hint, you're wrong and that is clear to anyone who actually read my posts.

GTS is not GT7

Actually I showed how it is and you can even see it in that link.

or it would be called GT7

No Kaz said why they chose not to call this game GT7 even though it could be called GT7 according to him and he specifically stated why they chose the GTS name instead.

PD can male a game called GT7 even Tomorrow...

I've shown why they can't. Clearly you haven't read my recent posts.

Yeah I'm not reading all that, sorry.

Then that is where your post should have ended because you can't reply unless your willing to try and evaluate what I am actually saying.

Do you remember where you heard Kaz say this isn't a spin-off?

E3 interview I think, I can't remember which one, I'll see if I can find it.

Do you think they would call that game GT Sport 2?

I doubt it but I have no idea, GT8 maybe but I actually doubt we will see another release on the PS4, I know that isn't normal but I can't see how they are going to get any more out of the PS4. If they do release another game the only things I can see them doing is either makes something else completely different or add more content such as a big offline mode of some kind or maybe some other kind of Motorsports or maybe some type of free roam aspect. From what they are saying it doesn't seem like they can add features like dynamic weather or features to the racing part because they seem to be out of headroom.

Big car numbers - not classified (BoP'd) into groups like Prototype, GT3, GT4 - but just cars.

Not in any game that has a sport element, I could be wrong but I can't see how unless the grouping is street cars that are not race able in any series.

That said I expect much bigger car and track numbers to come in the form of DLC and if these are paid then I really doubt a sequel on the PS4.

Tuning shop/Custom parts to add all sorts of goodies - power upgrades, spoilers, wheels, etc.

As above, only if they introduce some type of street car scene or grouping in the future perhaps with a free roam aspect but I do expect wheels to be a customisable setting still in this game.

Old school career with Novice, National A, International A etc.

Well as I said it doesn't fit well with the sport aspect of the game. If they ever do decide to bring this back it must be exceptional. AI need to be of the highest standard, the old AI of Gran Turismo has no place in this generation of games, a marginal improvement is also not good enough, future AI must be among the best but I don't see how AI racing fits in with real life Motorsports other than how it is implemented in this game as a training tool. Also the license scheme of offline vs online adds confusion with 2 different progressions especially considering one is a real challenge of skill and the other better represents how long you have been playing.

I really think that any type of offline mode in the future other than what we have seen in this title needs to be innovative, something we haven't seen in a game before but something that capture the essence and joy of driving, something like Top Gear in game form which I kind of think as legal hooning.

B-Spec.

I really hope not.

Course Maker.

I really hope so, I'd even love to see it as an addition to this game even if we have to pay extra for it. They can charge extra if they add Stadium Trucks and let us build Stunt Tracks. Extra extra if we can build Super Stunt Tracks.

Special Events like Sierra or Goodwood.

I see that as a type of innovation but I think they can get even more creative and I see that as part of a bigger picture. I'm still thinking back to the overly ambitious dreams Kaz has mentioned in the past, there is still some great innovation we could see in the future that no one has really tried or nailed yet. I don't think anyone has come close to building something that matches what I imagined when I read about Kaz's open world dreams for the future. Maybe we will see something like that one day and if we see a bigger game released on PS4 that could be it and that is a game I could see sport live alongside but that still isn't the offline game some might want.

 

[ribloGT]

7HO...
You are building up a conspiracy theory on a single Kaz word...
I give you an advice... Take the game as it is... You Like it you buy it, you dont Like it you dont buy it...
If you believe that GTS is GT7 you are free to do it but spare yourself of writing wall of text of theories and shenigans to make other people believe the same...

 

[Tornado]

I've shown why they can't. Clearly you haven't read my recent posts.

I'm sure the multi-billion dollar international conglomerate is going to field their future marketing decisions for their seventy million+ selling tentpole game franchise off of some guy's forum posts.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Source?

First of all Jim Ryan is not the spokesman for PD so he is not a definitive source of information and can be excused for a mistake. Second all I can find is that Eurogamer interpreted something he said as that but he is not quoted by them as saying that, he is quoted as saying something different “We’re not announcing Gran Turismo 7 at this stage,”. Third to what he actually said we can add that last year Kaz said “The old days, when the games were offline, the experience was defined by what’s on the disc. You had a distinction between a Prologue and a full GT, it was very stark. When the game becomes more of an online connected experience, that distinction blurs. This will be much more than a Prologue type experience.” and this year we can find this “No, I’m quite sure it’s going to be a true GT7 – (correcting self) It’s not called that. But I’m quite sure that it’s really going to be dedicated to eSports because of the FIA partnership.” here https://www.gtplanet.net/could-gran-turismo-sport-be-bumped-to-2017/



There is a difference between not the absolute truth and a straight up lie. If a manufacturer says we are making a circle and it in fact turns out to be a triangle that isn't PR speak, that is a lie. You can't claim something as a full release if it is not a full release and it doesn't matter what you think it is or what you think it is missing it doesn't change this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Turismo_(series)#Releases this is what the developers have said, this is their gospel so now the next full release title will be the 8th full release title according to them, in other words this is GT7. If they bring out a tatle named GT7 after this unless they change their position and say this is not a full release then GT7 will be the 8th Gran Turismo so GT7 would be GT8 but called GT7 if that happened. It isn't PR talk, I know everyone desperately wants it to be PR talk, I know everyone wants there to be a GT7 with the features they want but I have already stated why the path they have taken with this title is the obvious path but In a moment I'll recap that because that comment is buried deep in another thread.

You can choose to read what isn't actually between the lines if you want but at this point there is no longer anything hinting at what you want, hey I really thought they would go down that path too, I really thought this was a spin off title and honestly there wouldn't have been an issue if they kept on following through with that, if they had the intention of releasing the GT7 some people want then they could have easily said "we are currently focused on GTS with plans to continue support and adding content as DLC beyond release, we have no plans to announce in regards to releasing a title called GT7 at this stage as we are focused on GTS so people should not expect a numbered release in the near future". If they said something like that it wouldn't hurt GTS sales and it also wouldn't rule out the type of game that some people are hoping for in the future but that is not what they said and as I have shown what they have said does logically exclude a future release of a title called GT7. It can never be written off as PR speak now, it is either true or a lie.



No he has said outright that this is not a spin off.



He also said that he would never do a spin off like Forza have done with Horizon.

@Samus Now to what I said I would talk about earlier.

It is easy to see how Kaz considers this a full release and he has actually said similar to what I will mention here but it is very easy to see why he considers this a fully featured title and worthy to be considered and sold as a fully featured title. First I'll repeat the quote I posted above

“The old days, when the games were offline, the experience was defined by what’s on the disc. You had a distinction between a Prologue and a full GT, it was very stark. When the game becomes more of an online connected experience, that distinction blurs. This will be much more than a Prologue type experience.” Kaz said.

I know you will point out that GT5 and GT6 had an online mode but read again what he said "more of an online connected experience", clearly he thinks GTS is much more than what we have seen before and I agree as I'll explain below. But before we get there just read the opening words and think of this in combination with his comments regarding the old generation and the start of a new generation “The old days, when the games were offline, the experience was defined by what’s on the disc.", I think it is probably time to give up hope of the offline experience you are wishing for.

Now lets look at why this is worthy of being considered a full release.

• A much more complex and fully featured online system than any previous GT release and one that is comparable to the total experience of a much more expensive iRacing.
• Many more stand alone features than iRacing and much more user friendly and well implemented features (I know what you might be thinking but this is an accurate statement even based only on what we currently know)
• A content count comparable to other modern releases.

Lets look at those features

• A more advanced offline mode that trains the driver but also rates the driver for the purpose of multiplayer matchmaking. (more complex and improved over previous games)
• Arcade Mode, offline (standard feature but vital for an online racing game for the purpose testing and practice)
• Livery Editor (new long awaited feature)
• Scapes (new feature that Kaz seems to think is a very substantial feature so possibly complex to implement and something he is clearly very proud of)
• Advanced social function (this one is big for me and it is a feature I am excited for and I hope is popular, it is something I have long wished iRacing could implement well but something I don't think they are capable of delivering anytime soon)
• Standard Online Racing (same as before)
• Improved FFB (okay this one is a stretch and let's not get hung up on it but I'm including it here ((as an educated guess which I have proven I'm very good at)) because the new GT wheel is direct drive and what we know from direct drive owner reports is games other than iRacing actually feel off with direct drive steering so the FFB needs to be good now that people will have DD steering. If you don't want to accept the FFB just file this as DD support instead which is massive on its own)
• Official FIA and Polyphony race series with increased fields running on premium servers with advanced matchmaking (a massively complex project, a substantial service that no one has ever offered on console before, could be a stand alone game with no other features if released by anyone else and would be praised as ground breaking.)
• Virtual Reality. (extremely difficult project due to the hardware and requirements and probably the main reason for having to rebuild tracks and cars which makes this a completely new game)
• Improved Physics (to be taken seriously on the next point potentially a substantial project to come from where they were to where they need to be)
• Considered as a real next gen Motorsport by FIA (potentially the biggest thing to ever happen to Sim racing and potentially a pivotal moment in the history of motor racing. If this pays off no one will remember iRacing as having a go at it earlier, if it pays off Polyphony will be responsible for legitimising sim racing as a real sport and as a legitimate Motorsport. (this was and still is clearly a massive task, it also is something I think no one expected to happen this soon or on console for that matter)

Clearly they still have to make it work and clearly they can so easily get the balance wrong. Clearly they are paving new ground and they can't even be sure if this will pay off for them or if it is even marketable. But this is potentially the biggest moment in sim racing ever and it is a monumental moment if it works. If it is successful you are looking at the beginning of the future of Motorsports so it isn't just a massive moment for sim racing.

Okay last time you all said I was making a lot of assumptions but now those assumptions have been confirmed and now the only thing we need to wait and see is if they can deliver what they have said they will and if it will be popular or unpopular.

Okay now to the part I promised, why did PD leave out that bit you want and why is this still a fully featured title without it? Leaving out the old offline career progression is the right decision to make in this title, everything that is currently in the title has a place leading this to be a complete and well rounded title as long as the features are well implemented and critical sim features like FOV adjustments for people racing on monitors on TV's are also included just to name one. There simply is no place for the old offline mode as it runs the risk of being detrimental to the service they are trying to deliver and would compete with the primary feature of the game. Instead they have made a career out of online play to replace the former offline career.

Now the offline progression will play a vital part to the online career and that is why it is mandatory. Not only will it attempt to shape the attitude of the driver and change our old bad habits but it will rate the driver so they can be accurately placed with similar drivers so everyone no matter what level or attitude can have fun with this game. Kaz has even said it himself, in GTS the wreckers can go play with the wreckers. Rather than take the approach of other online racing services by banning this behaviour PD is catering for everyone, they are essentially saying do whatever you want and have fun your way and we will find others like you to have fun with, why has no one thought of this before? There doesn't need to be a punitive system, instead a nuetral matchmaking system can ensure this is a racing game for anyone and everyone, genius!

Then the arcade mode is essential because it can be used for practice and development through testing.

I am not exactly excited about the implementation of the standard online mode, I think it is a let down as announced and I was hoping to at least hear the ability to pay for premium servers with higher number and features more suitable to serious leagues. Hopefully they will surprise me in the future. However a good online mode is essential to an online racer so another important feature.

Social functions. Not only a great additional feature but potentially an important feature in a game that is claiming to be the future of Motorsport. Real Motorsport should include a social platform where people can stand out, promote themselves and a place where a community can thrive and where people can follow personalities and careers they are interested in and where friendships can grown and friends can interact. A community aspect can be an important factor in the success of the service but also an essential promotional platform for what is trying to become a professional and legitimate sport.

Scapes. I must say i have no interest in this at all but I can see the appeal and clearly car porn has a place in a serious title such as this one.

Livery editor. This is a must have feature in a serious Motorsport and clearly something that is long overdue.

Damage. I didn't include it above because we don't know if it is good yet, I'm hoping it is well implemented and good, I'm sure Polyphony understand that to be taken seriously as the future of Motorsport the days of bumpercar racing need to be over.

Improved Physics. Clearly needed again to be taken seriously and now looking more promising after John Sabol's comments.

Virtual Reality. The beginning of the future and now that Playstation has VR this is the perfect marriage for VR. Also if you are competing against the current King of this genre you better come to the table with as many comparable features as possible, VR is essential for this title.

FIA Motorsport. This is what it is all about, this alone makes this a full featured title, this alone makes this the greatest thing ever. Sure the jaded will think of this as another PR stunt but whether this turns out to be a dud feature or truly the future of Motorsports relies very much on the shoulders of the people. There is no reaon for this to be a dud and put it this way, this is the substance of the game and if this is a dud the whole thing is a dud and a complete and utter failure. It will not be a dud unless no one plays it, if no one enjoys and plays it this game will be a monumental failure, either way this game is a game that will be remembered for a very long time, good or bad. But if this delivers we are actually looking at the beginning of the future of Motorsports!

And again I know you probably think this is a bold claim based on my hopes but it isn't that at all, it is the logical progression. If this turns out to be a popular thing then because this is officially considered an official FIA Motorsport what we are looking at here is the biggest Motorsports competition the world has ever seen. This is a significant moment for Motorsports because around the world Motorsports is dying, if this fails it may be a sign that Motorsports is doomed, if it thrives, we are looking at the future.

And how is all this relevant to this thread. I'm sure there will be sceptics but if like me you are a hopeful believer then perhaps you should wait just a bit longer to be a little more sure but if signs continue to look good then a bit closer to release this is absolutely a title that is worth buying a PS4 for. The sceptics may want to wait until after release but if it works out this will be a must buy sim.

I think this is the biggest post I have ever written. I'm expecting a cheque Kaz

Third time? Fourth time? Even if all of this unsourced material is true, none of it precludes the next game being GT7 or, if you prefer, a full sized, traditional style, Gran Turismo game.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

@Master Weasel I didn't like the old menu system and from what I have seen of the GTS menu system I think I prefer it.

That's fine. It's a matter of taste at the end of the day. My point was I just want to feel enthusiastic about Gran Turismo again and IMO the older games just did a better job at doing that with their atmosphere.

 

[ribloGT]

Third time? Fourth time? Even if all of this unsourced material is true, none of it precludes the next game being GT7 or, if you prefer, a full sized, traditional style, Gran Turismo game.

And to add to Johnnypenso...
Dont believe all that Kaz says...
He's not new to say empty promises...
Like that one about VGT all into GT6 and now it says that the remaining ones Will be on the next games on PS4...

 

[Godarm]

That said I expect much bigger car and track numbers to come in the form of DLC and if these are paid then I really doubt a sequel on the PS4.

Sorry for diverging from the current discussion, but i just can't help it whenever i see the word -> "DLC" and/or patches
Please pardon me as a GT fan

my thoughts as quoted from another website: Kerr from gtvault [I know the post is old (2010) and he is referring to online patches but i like to extend it also to DLC]

http://www.gtvault.com/gt5/post-view/hp_hpid::173/GTVault-updates-for-GT5-very-unlikely/

Excerpt from Kerr's post:

"From the derivative standpoint, I had much the same feelings about GT4 when it was released, but at least that game was completed by comparison to GT5. The fact that console game developers can now release online patches is a major red herring. On one hand, gamers are given the promise of new features and added functionality. The reality is it gives developers the opportunity to release poorly tested code and incomplete features.

Prior releases of GT did not have this opportunity, and that is largely the reason those games felt much more complete.
It used to be all or nothing when releasing console titles, and the paradigm shift to an online distribution model has forever changed that mentality. Perhaps I will change my view if/when PD completes the game. Regardless, having already spent my hard earned money for a product that is not up to snuff will leave an enduring bad taste in my mouth."

To add on to what he is saying, imo even if players are willing to be exploited (one example $$$) by Sony/PD in DLC for cars etc, can they or Kaz really lived up to the expectations of what they are going to offer and/or what players want?

What I mean is in terms of quantity and quality. I know this is highly subjective - some pple like the dlc, some don't....... it is hard to cater to all players.... but this is my observation from looking and comparing the dlc items offered by PD and other racing games like forza, Assetto Corsa etc........

I am not saying DLC/patches are bad.......however one example is that PD said will give/fix "A" in the end give "B", "C" .......or even create "A1", "A2".......or even worst nothing at all....u get the idea?

To each his own, as of now i am not considering buying PS4 for GT sports (many reasons) but i might buy it for FFXV .......I guess i will stick with GT6 (PS3)...

my 2 cents

 

[7HO]

You are building up a conspiracy theory on a single Kaz word...

Wait before it was a sentence, now it is a single word. You didn't answer my last question because you couldn't and I said you were wrong. I have also posted multiple videos and multiple quotes all from Kaz, clearly I have posted a lot more than a word or a single sentence from Kaz as I have reference multiple quotes from multiple interviews spanning a good period of time.

I give you an advice...

I'll do the same to you, if you don't want to accept that Kaz has actually said this is GT7 but they chose to call it Sport "instead" for reasons you are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe.

Third time? Fourth time? Even if all of this unsourced material is true, none of it precludes the next game being GT7 or, if you prefer, a full sized, traditional style, Gran Turismo game.

I provided a GTPlanet link for the fourth, It seems I got ahead of myself with the third as I forgot the link but you could have easily highlighted it, right clicked and searched with google if you use the only browser worth using. There you would have noticed that it is also even on GTPlanet but the source I got it from listed it as a quote by Kaz and GTP says it is by Jim Ryan, it is posted on multiple sites and some say Kaz said it, others say Jim said it.

And to add to Johnnypenso...
Dont believe all that Kaz says...
He's not new to say empty promises...
Like that one about VGT all into GT6 and now it says that the remaining ones Will be on the next games on PS4...

I'm well aware of his failings, I've also said I believe he really means something when he says it and it is true at the time but his truth can change after time. That said this isn't some promise, he is actually saying that the game can either be called GT7 or GT Sport but they chose to call it Sport instead for reasons provided.

Sorry for diverging from the current discussion, but i just can't help it whenever i see the word -> "DLC" and/or patches
Please pardon me as a GT fan

my thoughts as quoted from another website: Kerr from gtvault [I know the post is old (2010) and he is referring to online patches but i like to extend it also to DLC]

http://www.gtvault.com/gt5/post-view/hp_hpid::173/GTVault-updates-for-GT5-very-unlikely/

Excerpt from Kerr's post:

"From the derivative standpoint, I had much the same feelings about GT4 when it was released, but at least that game was completed by comparison to GT5. The fact that console game developers can now release online patches is a major red herring. On one hand, gamers are given the promise of new features and added functionality. The reality is it gives developers the opportunity to release poorly tested code and incomplete features.

Prior releases of GT did not have this opportunity, and that is largely the reason those games felt much more complete.
It used to be all or nothing when releasing console titles, and the paradigm shift to an online distribution model has forever changed that mentality. Perhaps I will change my view if/when PD completes the game. Regardless, having already spent my hard earned money for a product that is not up to snuff will leave an enduring bad taste in my mouth."

To add on to what he is saying, imo even if players are willing to be exploited (one example $$$) by Sony/PD in DLC for cars etc, can they or Kaz really lived up to the expectations of what they are going to offer and/or what players want?

What I mean is in terms of quantity and quality. I know this is highly subjective - some pple like the dlc, some don't....... it is hard to cater to all players.... but this is my observation from looking and comparing the dlc items offered by PD and other racing games like forza, Assetto Corsa etc........

I am not saying DLC/patches are bad.......however one example is that PD said will give/fix "A" in the end give "B", "C" .......or even create "A1", "A2".......or even worst nothing at all....u get the idea?

To each his own, as of now i am not considering buying PS4 for GT sports (many reasons) but i might buy it for FFXV .......I guess i will stick with GT6 (PS3)...

my 2 cents

It is a fair concern shared by many and actually fitting in this thread I believe because it is a consideration others will also have.

Simply put development for games today and previously are not comparable. The quality that is expected today costs more money to develop, it really is the quantity vs quality argument. When you consdier development time and pricing it really isn't rocket surgery. A game takes so many man hours to complete and there fore costs x amount of dollar that they need to recover before they can make a profit which they are entitled to for their work, there are also other costs involved such as licensing costs for example. The money they make take for that title is determined by the number of copies sold multiplied by the price they sell for, they can also recieve money from advertising. The money they make is determined by subtracting their costs from their takings.

You already knew all that I'm sure but I just wanted you to think about that now because PD have 200 men working on this which is a substantial team and apparently they have been working on this for 3 years. We also have no idea what their licensing costs are or if they have increased in recent years. What we can see is that the content in this game is at least comparable to other similar modern titles, I actually think it is more substantial as I have detailed in another extremely long post. My point here is most modern big name titles have similar development costs and it seems everyone is working to a price. That would be smart business.

Of course we all want more but if we want more we have to pay more otherwise the game might not be profitable. Actually there are some very good articles in recent years regarding the problems with the gaming industry that discuss margins and wages and if you read those you can see how grim it is and how many of the people working on these games are often doing it mostly as a labour of love and working under poor conditions for less money than they could be earning if they took their talents somewhere else.

But because we all want more developers have had to work out ways to provide us more and remain profitable, one way is paid DLC.

But in the case of Gran Turismo Sport I think the pricing model is not the right pricing model and perhaps they have simply chosen this model for fear that the correct one would be too radical at this point to release with such a radical release. So Charging for the game plus DLC is the closest modern acceptable scheme to the one they should be using. GTS should be a subscription game since what it actually is is an online Racing service and on this type of platform what people really want is constant improvements and constant new models.

Here is the thing, if any developer tried to release every possible car and track from scratch for a serious simulation with every feature that people dream a sim would include the development time would not see the sim finished within a consoles lifetime, it could potential cover two consoles lifetimes. To get to the stage iRacing is currently at has taken 10 years from inception and it was already building upon code from the Papyrus days to my knowledge. Then when they completed that there would be all the content released in the 10 years during development that people would also want to be up to date. Could you imagine what such a title would need to sell for?

So if you can bring a product to market that has enough to be desirable and charge a subscription to be profitable and cover all ongoing development costs and keep adding to it to make it better, that would be the perfect model for the future of Motorsport but it is uncertain if the market would accept that at the moment and this is already a title with enough uncertainty because no one knows if this will even take off. Clearly the more palatable pricing model is the familiar pay at launch and pay for additional DLC which is somewhat like an ongoing subscription but gives people the perception they own something even though with this game it becomes as useless as GT5P the day they shut down the servers. Maybe the next one will be a sub.

Regardless perception is a major player in this market, the problem is the perception of gamers is often emotional and driven by circumstance and rarely do they actually consider the reasons for why things are the way they are.

But then you have TF2 and DOTA2, games that simply make money from cosmetic items and taking a cut from a community market for the game and what is the biggest game on PC?

 

[ribloGT]

7HO...
You are clearly hooked on the marketing net of Kaz and PD and you are building castles in air about every single word Kaz says so i let you to your fantasy world of GT sequels called with the most frantic names...

I am not gonna buy GTS and i Will evaluate only a "classic" GT game no matter How it Will be named...

 

[7HO]

7HO...
You are clearly hooked on the marketing net of Kaz and PD and you are building castles in air about every single word Kaz says so i let you to your fantasy world of GT sequels called with the most frantic names...

I am not gonna buy GTS and i Will evaluate only a "classic" GT game no matter How it Will be named...

Now it is every single word, you can't make up your mind can you? You also can't answer questions. But you can make false statements and you are pretty good at ignoring every time a person points out your statements are wrong or asks you to verify them.

 

[ribloGT]

Now it is every single word, you can't make up your mind can you? You also can't answer questions. But you can make false statements and you are pretty good at ignoring every time a person points out your statements are wrong or asks you to verify them.

Ok...
GTS is GT7
Kaz is the god of driving simulators and his words are gold
And your wall of text posts are the Holy Bible
Better now?