RIDOX Replica Garage-In Memory of TurnLeft-GT40,300ZX,F430,TVR,AEM S2000,Cizeta,TransAm Doug Nash

Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by Ridox2JZGTE, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    Thanks @danbojte , glad you liked it, the Corvette's look good no? :cool:

    Thanks @ALB123 , If I ever hit myself on the head hard enough to forget how much time this took :banghead:... or find an easier way of doing this I would be really glad to have you write up some reviews, I always appreciate your reviews :tup:. So for now there's no future plan for this but :crazy: people change their minds :lol:, and if that happens you'll be the first I'll contact :cheers:.
     
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  2. danbojte

    danbojte

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    Especially that. :sly:
     
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  3. ALB123

    ALB123

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    @TurnLeft Sounds good, friend. I just finished reading issue #1. Bravo! Very well done... I particularly liked your idea of having to pay to repair damage done to the car, whether cosmetic or mechanical, I think it would not only add another level of complexity to Gran Turismo, but as you mentioned, it should improve people's driving considerably. I'm sure we are all guilty of dive bombing the AI to get inside a tight turn. Why not? They drive like crap and there is no penalty for scraping the AI cars, even if you downright push them out of the way.

    While reading your thoughts on this matter it occurred to me, do you think it would be possible to also implement a flag system? For those drivers who just ram and push the AI out of the way, wouldn't a black flag seem appropriate? Of course, this could always be a setting that is only enabled if you chose to drive in the higher realism setting. Or maybe it should only be turned off if you're using aids like SRF, so that way the system knows you must be a newbie and it would prevent skilled drivers from shutting the flag system off for races.

    I'm sure this is all just wishful thinking. I can just imagine the furor if someone believes they have been unjustly black flagged during a particularly tight or difficult race. We can't even get PD to properly implement ride height, for God's sake! How would they implement something that is potentially subjective when they can't even implement ride height?
     
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  4. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    @TurnLeft : Finished reading the mag :) What a good read and lots of laugh too :D I really like the ads section :lol: Big thanks for the review features on the replicas, and did I lost my touch ? I'm asking myself too :lol:
    For replica being a rarity in GTP, I would say the replica or real life based build cars are an acquired taste, not many will like it or enjoy it. I think one of main reason is expectation, lots of drivers will expect a tuned car to be what they wanted, no understeer, no oversteer, goes like on rails, brakes in a dime, post lap time so low, people will wonder if you cheat or not :lol: and they don't care if the car itself drive unlike the real car it modeled from.

    It always baffled me when someone rant the car drive unlike the real car but didn't realized that the car in GT6 was pushed much harder than the real car would ever do, expecting it to response like the real car, all while the specs/tune is totally different. GT6 is not perfect, it's full of errors and bugs, but it's up to us to make use of it as well as we can. The Mustang Boss that I have built last year since I did the Tjaarda Mustang Fast & Furious is a car that can be said a good example of PD failing to input the correct stats for the car, except for the gearing and torque figure :lol:
    The ride height also quite unique, unequal height but visually close to the real car stock ground clearance, with front having a few mm off. The ride height glitch didn't actually help or hurt the car, but once I got the suspension sorted ( again not capable of using real car spring rate, have to make do with higher rate but still maintain spring ratio ), and LSD tuned to be more effective, the car shines even at technical track like Tsukuba. This with a weight and distribution closely replicating the real car at over 1650kg and much heavier front.

    The other cars that I found to be special are TRD Celica, R33 GTR, E92 M3, R34 GTR Nur, R35 GTR, and both 350Z + 370Z. The M3 is a testament that PD also modeled the motion ratio, the spring rate arrangement is similar to stock E92 M3, a spring ratio that will make anyone wonder if the car will be nicely balanced like IRL or simply drive like a cart on a oil slick :lol: Picture a very soft front springs and hard as rock rear springs.

    For tuners coming and going, I think it has a lot more to do with interest, time, and motivation to keep going. For me, I simply enjoy driving cars, I could spend half an hour just driving around a car in a track, alone :) I shared my creations as a legacy for anyone who visited GTP, so they can enjoy what I have enjoyed and experience cars closer to real world specs.

    For your 1st avatar, the stewie griffin :p
     
  5. ALB123

    ALB123

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    @Ridox2JZGTE No, you have not lost your touch. If anything, you're getting better and better with each new release. I can't speak for @TurnLeft, but I don't think he feels you've lost your touch either. After all, look at how much time he spends in your garage! :sly:

    I know I've said this before, but I think it bears repeating. I come to your garage looking for the most realistic driving experience I can find on GTP among the various tuning garages. I'm not looking for the fastest tunes or the easiest to drive tunes. I'm hoping that when I build a car from your garage that I will get to experience what it is like to drive that car in real life. Of course, I'm not delusional. Gran Turismo physics, and ALL driving/racing SIMs are far from perfect; some much more so than others. However, I like to believe that you catch the essence of the BMW E92 M3 GTS, Ferrari F40 or Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera better than any other tuner on GTP.

    When I drive a car that you've published I want there to be certain glitches or peculiarities to that car, as long as they represent the same glitches or peculiarities found in the real car. If a car is naturally prone to understeer I expect your replica to understeer. If a car is prone to get unbalanced under hard braking I expect your replica to get unbalanced under hard braking. Please, don't ever remove those characteristics from your tunes. After all, isn't that what a replica is supposed to be?! If the magazines all say the same thing about a particular car that's negative, it should be that way in your build as well. That's what separates you from all the other non-replica tuners.

    Speaking of the other replica tuners on GTP. I honestly don't know much about any of them. I found your garage quite soon after joining GTP, but I was drawn to the other big name tuners because I believed "if they're getting so much praise, they must be the best tuners!" Best is always a subjective term when it comes to things like this. Frankly, I don't want to tune my cars so they all start feeling the same to me - blisteringly fast but lifeless. This is what I encountered when I was new to GTP and GT6. Honestly, I just didn't know any better.

    I can't remember exactly which tune from this garage changed me. Philosophically, I suppose I was destined to end up here. I play GT6 because I have a love for cars and I know I'll never be able to experience 99% of them in real life. Your garage allows me to capture a little bit of what I long for. When I post one of my silly little reviews of your cars and I might mention something negative about the car, please read those words with pride! I know and you know you could tune out the flaws, but then the car wouldn't be a replica of the real thing.

    I've never had any interest in being the fastest guy in Seasonal Event Super Laps and I'm positive I would never be, no matter how much I practiced. Those Aliens are truly amazing drivers. What I do want out of GT6 is to continue having fun with these cars that make me feel like I'm driving a simulation of the real thing. Again, I know that GT6 has a bunch of issues, but since I don't have the real cars to compare them to I'm none the wiser. :lol: As long as the end result is similar to what I read in the magazines I will be quite happy.

    Thank you for sharing your passion with all of us. I seriously believe that if I hadn't gotten hooked on this replica build garage that I would have shelved GT6 long ago. Your garage index is plenty large which should keep me happy for a long, long time. :tup: :D :cheers:
     
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  6. TurnLeft

    TurnLeft

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    Glad you liked it, I made all the adds except the Skype and the glue ones. That was quite fun. Nah you didn't loose your touch, just needed to stir up some attention, and that challenge in the COTM will always be one of my best moments :lol:, I won :lol:.

    We all want PD to make things better, but when I look at other race games out, everyone off them has it's flaws, putting in the wrong car stats :grumpy: is harder to forgive then missing out on replicating real life physics. Even engineers have trouble understanding our physics properly, if they did we wouldn't be where we are now :lol:. On the whole off it I find this game pretty amazing even with all it's flaws, the good thing is that they do listen to what we say and they do try to make it better, programming real life physics is very difficult, companies have been trying wind tunnel emulators, they and governments have spent millions of dollars and yet they still have to test it afterwards in an IRL wind tunnel, and even that doesn't reproduce accurately how it's going to work IRL. The other good thing is that we are still having fun :tup:.

    wrong.jpeg ..:lol:.. when I joined I was a bit more timid in everything that I posted, including my avatar, I went with what I drive everyday but made a big mistake with my PSN name, [ OutbackV6 ], I was sure someone would have pointed it out to me that a Subaru Outback has a H6 boxer engine NOT a V6 :lol:. The only difference with the picture and the IRL car is that the kayaks are red, and right now they're under 2 feet of snow :grumpy:.

    I think that it's a good idea, might be something if you could have different skill levels, as you choose higher skill levels the payoff would be bigger, that way it would be an incentive for people to try getting better driving skills .... me included :dunce:. The idea for the magazine is not dead, just have to find a way of simplifying the work load and archiving the data, so we'll see :scared:.
     
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  7. ALB123

    ALB123

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    I built this car before bed and had to convince myself to save my first laps until today. That wasn't easy. I could tell, just from looking at the specs, that I was going to like this car. My previous review of the Titan AP1 had a small complaint: it needz moar pow3r!!! Well, this Turbo C1 Runner delivered the power and it is awesome!

    Everything I said about the Titan AP1 applies to this car. That shouldn't be a surprise. Weight is nearly identical. Suspension options are the same. The LSD and transmissions are a bit different, no doubt to accommodate the big increase in power in this Turbo C1 Runner. She carves up the Nurburgring GP/D circuit like she was built specifically for that track.

    You'll have lots of fun with this lightweight machine. Peak HP and Torque are very close with this engine. High in the RPM range as I'm sure you can imagine. However, this car doesn't suffer nearly as much if you find yourself in 3rd gear with the tachometer around 4500 RPM. This is a very strong engine and I'm positive it will delight anyone who likes lightweight cars.
     
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  8. KazaMR2

    KazaMR2

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    1,304
    Just a quick update from me - I'll try review all the WMMT cars over my Easter break. I am caught back with work at the moment. I have most of the tunes but barely get to use them for a good enough review time. So hopefully I'll be reviewing next week! :D
     
  9. ALB123

    ALB123

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    So, I happened to notice that the Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera from SP Engineering and the H&R Audi R8 GT were almost identical in PP. The Lambo came in at 552PP and the Audi at 551PP. Well, what do you do when you have two cars, cut from the same cloth (practically), tuned up and rated almost exactly the same in GT6? That's right. You bring them both out to La Sierra with a lot of fresh rubber (CS tires for both cars) and a pile of cash to rent the road for the day.

    I'll come right out and tell you that I'm not going to reveal lap times. You've probably noticed I never do. I don't know why I don't post them. I'm not ashamed of my lap times or anything. I know I'm not super fast, but I'm not the slowest guy on GTP either.

    What I will say is that the first drive for each car was ridiculously close. I'm talking a 0.530s difference between the two cars. :eek: I know! :eek: I took the Gallardo out first. I really like the way Ridox's Superleggera replicas drive. I've made both, but chose the SP Engineering because of its PP value and how close it was to the R8 GT. That's it. Anyway, this car was a real pleasure to roar around La Sierra in. It definitely feels faster than the H&R Audi R8.

    The Audi might not have felt as quick as the Lamborghini, but it felt like it took corners better. I think that may be due to the fact that I installed Factory Alignment Base on the Superleggera which has very low camber levels (0.4 / 1.2). You could feel the difference between the two cars on turn in, no doubt.

    Both cars hit exactly 180 MPH on the long straight that's about 1/3 of the way through the course. The Lambo got there a little easier though. As I had no trouble backing off the throttle and downshifting & braking my way smoothly into the right hand uphill turn that follows. Such was not the case with the R8. Perhaps I just didn't get as good a jump to start my road assault toward that straightaway, or maybe the Lambo just does accelerate quicker. Either way, when I finally hit 180 I slammed my foot to the floor and downshifted while holding my breath, praying that I would slow down enough to turn in and head up the hill rather than become a permanent part of the rocks that lay just at the end of the straightaway.

    The Audi R8 brakes did their job and I survived with nothing more than an increased heart rate. Overall, the Audi brakes are much, much better than the Lamborghini brakes. I have the R8 brakes set at (7/8) while the Lambo brakes are set at (6/7). At low/medium speed the Lambo brakes are already causing the wheels to scream a bit and if I try to increase to 7/8, they just don't jive with my driving style. A nice firm press in the Audi and I was confident I would be scrubbing plenty of speed off to make the next turn. I was left guessing many times in the Lamborghini.

    I did have a couple of hiccups with both runs. My Lambo run had 1 small mistake and 1 fairly big mistake - although I didn't hit anything or DQ myself. I just greatly misjudged my entry speed on a turn, locked 'em up and plowed my way to almost a complete stop - luckily saving myself from going off track, but having to go back into 1st gear.

    My first Audi run was going okay until I spun out with about 40 seconds left to my lap!! :banghead: Then I spun on my 2nd attempt with the Audi. My 3rd time was a charm as I made it all the way without spinning, slamming off rocks or DQ'ing myself somehow. Still, there were a couple of hiccups and I think my lap time should have been better than it was.

    I think the only fair thing to do is cool off (this post should suffice), run a lap in the Audi and then run another in the Lamborghini. That way I've definitely been properly "warmed up" to the track and to both cars. But if you've made it this far and you haven't fallen asleep. The R8 was a smidgen quicker. ;) Honestly, I was a little shocked. The Lambo just felt faster, but the Audi did turn in much nicer and allowed me to hold that speed on corner entry. Combined with the ability to brake later. Maybe I shouldn't be so shocked. We shall see how round 2 goes.
     
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  10. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    When I tested both at Red Bull Ring, the Lambo was quicker than the R8 GT, but it maybe due to the track layout :) Both cars are unique, even if they shared similar DNA during developments. People said the Audi is more refined than the Gallardo, that I would agree :p
     
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  11. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    Toyota Celica TRD Sports M ( ZZT231 ) '00
    tuned by MODELLISTA
    Tsukuba Time Attack Lap Record

    Tuned to replicate TRD Sports M Celica
    Comfort Medium


    Willow Springs International Raceway - Big Willow_52.jpg



    CAR : Celica TRD Sports M ( ZZT231 ) '00
    Tire : Comfort Medium


    Specs
    Horsepower: 196 HP / 200 PS at 7500 RPM
    Torque: 138.8 ft-lb at 6500 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 100%
    Weight: 1140 kg
    Ballast : 186 kg
    Ballast Position : -50
    Weight Distribution : 61 / 39
    Performance Points: 409

    Specs 210PS
    Horsepower: 207 HP / 210 PS at 7500 RPM
    Torque: 147.2 ft-lb at 6500 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 99.5%
    Weight: 1140 kg
    Ballast : 186 kg
    Ballast Position : -50
    Weight Distribution : 61 / 39
    Performance Points: 417



    GT AUTO
    NO Oil change
    Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
    Wheels : Standard Size Stock or ENKEI JS+M in Dark Grey
    Car Paint : Blue Metallic



    Tuning Parts Installed :
    Sports Exhaust
    Adjustable LSD
    Intake Tuning - OPTIONAL FOR 210PS Specs
    Fully Customizable Suspension
    Weight Reduction Stage 3
    Carbon Hood ( Body Color )
    Window Weight Reduction


    Willow Springs International Raceway - Big Willow_51.jpg


    Suspension - TRD SuperStrut Sports M Coilover Kit
    Base Alignment

    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 110 140
    Spring Rate: 5.21 8.03
    Dampers (Compression): 3 5
    Dampers (Extension): 5 4
    Anti-Roll Bars: 6 4
    Camber Angle: 1.2 0.4
    Toe Angle: 0.10 0.25

    Alternate Alignment and Ride Height for Track :
    Ride Height: 110 130
    Camber Angle: 1.2 1.9
    Toe Angle: 0.10 -0.25 or 0.00 0.00 ( zero toe )




    LSD TRD 2 Way - BASE
    Initial Torque : 20
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
    Braking Sensitivity: 30

    LSD TRD 1 Way - Alternative
    Initial Torque : 20
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
    Braking Sensitivity: 5

    LSD TRD 1.5 Way - Alternative
    Initial Torque : 20
    Acceleration Sensitivity: 30
    Braking Sensitivity: 15


    5_DSC_1081.jpg


    Brake Balance:
    5/5 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 4/4, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.


    Recommended setting for DS3 user :

    Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/5 brake balance as starting point.


    Notes :

    The TRD Sports M Celica was limited edition build Celica ZZT231 at 1200 cars. Developed by Toyota own tuning firm, Modellista, the TRD Sports M was an amalgam of street and track in one nice package that's easy to live with. Each has unique chassis number plates. The Celica has subtle power / engine tuning with power at modest 200PS.
    Some Sports M received the full engine package with TRD light weight piston ( increased compression ), TRD reprofiled high lift camshafts & lightweight valves. The exhaust system replaced with TRD exhaust manifold & high flow Version S muffler, with these upgrades, power claimed to be up to 210PS. You can get to this level at 207HP/210PS by installing intake tuning and use limiter, the spec has been included as option.

    The real Sports M also received chassis enhancement, TRD stiffened the monocoque chassis with extra spot welds to front strut suspension structural points & all roof pillars, then reducing sound proofing shaving some weight in the process.

    Other upgrades are TRD brake pads, TRD rear chassis brace, TRD wheels with several design, TRD air filter, TRD oil filter, TRD spark plugs, TRD fuel filler cap, TRD Helical LSD, heavy duty clutch, 6 speed Close Ratio gearbox, TRD Full body kit ( including spoiler ), TRD HID headlights, TRD Sportivo Damper, TRD SuperStrut Springs, thicker front anti roll bar, TRD suspension bushes and interior with TRD Sports leather steering wheel, half Alcantara sports seat, and TRD White Face 240kmh + 10,000RPM carbon instruments.

    For this replica, I used an adapted spring rate from TRD SuperStrut Kit ( Front 39.9N/mm, Rear 61.5N/mm ), the value is not possible in GT6, so I used the ratio instead. Damper has been set to give good turn in and exit. Alignment has been set to give tight handling limit when tuned, thus when you set the alternative alignment, the car will free up giving more control and freedom. The ride height is visually set to replicate the real car, this result in less rotation due to the ride height bud, but the suspension has been tuned within that limitation. The Celica TRD Sports M will carve corners like a well tuned FF.

    Gearing is correct from the data I gathered, with weight distribution at 61/39 based on real life Celica ZZT231 data. LSD is set with medium preload and there are several types provided, the base is 2 way, while there are other 2 with 1 way and 1.5 way ( highly recommended if wanted more turn in freedom )

    The TRD Sports M Celica was tuned and tested mainly at Tsukuba, aimed to replicate/beat the real life record set in Best Motoring at 1:11.32. This can be done on comfort medium, with my best lap at 1:10s using base 2 way LSD and base alignment.


    5_DSC_1022.jpg 5_DSC_1050.jpg 5_DSC_1114.jpg 5_DSC_1076.jpg 5_DSC_1075.jpg
    5_DSC_1089.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
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  12. ALB123

    ALB123

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    I know you released this tune quite some time ago, Ridox, but I have a question for you I hope that you can answer. You say that installing the Increased Car Rigidity is optional, but do you happen to remember if YOU installed it on yours? And if so, do you remember the driving characteristics before and after installing this modification.

    I'm always a wee bit nervous when it comes to installing this modification as there is no going back if you find out the car drove much better without the chassis reinforcements. On some cars, I install it no matter what - like when your replicas state that rollcages and such have been installed. In those instances, I feel it doesn't matter what I prefer - the car has those reinforcements, so I have to learn to deal with them.

    When you list the installation of such mods as optional, however, I always become a little apprehensive. Sure, I could always buy a replacement if it mucks the car up - but I'd like to prevent that if I could. Any insight into this tune would be appreciated.

    I just drove the @Highlandor tune of the McLaren F1 street version around La Sierra and marveled at it's laptime. On SM tires that street version means business. Now I'm off to build the LM version from your garage! :D :tup:
     
  13. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    11,660
    The McLaren F1 did have body rigidity installed when I tuned it, like written in the tune post. I wrote optional as I wanted others to try without first, and see if having issue with stability. If they have stability with the car, installing body rigidity might help, depending on the driving style and skill level.

    The tune is quite old, not sure if it still drive good or not on latest version, so it's best to not install the rigidity. I have sold the car long ago :( Try running some camber if possible, 2.2/1.0 for example.
     
    Dietrich likes this.
  14. ALB123

    ALB123

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    Wow. WOW! WOW!!! I just finished a lap around the Nurburgring Nordschleife in my brand new McLaren F1 LM - courtesy of my friends at McLaren and my favorite engineer, Ridox, who made sure this car was tuned properly and ready to go. Oh, it was ready to go alright...

    I was on the telephone for most of the lap. I had a couple of hiccups and drove on a little too much grass for my liking. Surprisingly, I was not DQ'ed so I continued on. With this set of SS tires I achieved a time well below 7 minutes around the north loop. Had I not been on the phone and also avoided those hiccups, I have a feeling I would have knocked a handful of seconds off my already impressive time.

    The level of grip from this car is stunning. I could probably go down a grade to SM tires and still have decent grip all around. I wouldn't be surprised if 1st and 2nd gears spin the tires a bit more, but that's for me to worry about. The suspension feels really nice too. I was worried that the car might be a little too stiff and bounce around a place like Nordschleife. I was wrong. The few curbs that I ran over didn't upset my car even a little bit. Talk about impressive. My foot could just stay planted to the floor...

    This is going to be one formidable 650PP car in my stable. I can't wait to try it in a race.
     
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  15. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    Wow, you had me worried there :D Happy the car still drives great :p I will post soon the Boss 302 ( including the Laguna Seca edition ) and the original classic Parnelli Jones Boss 302 '70 that won the Laguna Seca race ( it won't be accurate to the tee, but still drives great ) - it managed 1:30s lap at Seca.
    Anyone can guess the car and tire ? The tune might be adaptable to other Mustang in GT6 of the era.

    While, the Boss 302 2013 replica is very nice at Big Willow, able to lap in 1:31s on CM tire :eek:, just as good as the E92 M3 replica at Willow. Also just as good at Laguna Seca, beating the E92 M3 easily. The Boss 302 indeed a league of it's own among the Mustangs, track handling and pretty good speed. It's almost a match for the C5/C6 Vette and Camaro Z/28 replica that won Motortrend Best Drivers Car.
     
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  16. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    My guess for the Parnelli Jones Boss 302 is the black Mustang that won at SEMA. Sorry I can't remember the exact name. As for tyres, considering you're trying to replicate rubber from 45 years ago, I'd say CM :D
     
  17. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    That Mustang is too powerful :( I built a Mach 1 for Jones Boss 302, I know, different front and rear, but it has closer tire tread ( width ), and can get close to the weight and power - 470HP, 2900lbs. CM won't cut it this time, a 430+HP / 1600+kg on CS barely got 1:40s at Seca, 10 seconds lower with 4 speed will require sports soft tires ( the car can only hit 135mph at Seca ) :) Was thinking of Shelby Mustang, but the tires were too skinny :(
     
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  18. Pete05

    Pete05 Premium

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    I went for the SEMA Mustang thinking the power limiter would be the only way to make it possible.
    The Mach 1 shape would've no doubt been used in Trans-Am had the category survived :(
    We have an historic racing category here in Australia for Trans-Am like cars & it's proving to be very popular with the fans. Nothing like 20+ muscle cars racing door handle to door handle to get your attention :) :tup:.

    On another note, have you considered using the Mini Cooper 1.3i '98 to build a 60's Cooper S replica? I can't figure out why PD haven't given us one of these little gems considering their giant-killing performance and the number of trophies it won :irked:
     
  19. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    I tried the Shelby GT350 '65, looks different as well, but it can get closer in engine rpm and closer weight distribution than the Mach 1. Might pair it with Mach 1 :D

    The SEMA Mustang stock weight already too heavy at 1700+kg :( and with limiter, the max RPM limit is too low compared to Mach 1 and Shelby GT350.

    I think I have built Mini Cooper 1275S MK 1 before in GT5, will see what I can do.
     
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  20. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    Ford Mustang BOSS 302 + Laguna Seca 2012/2013
    Car & Driver + MotorTrend
    Laguna Seca and Tsukuba Time Attack
    'E92 M3 Killer'

    Tuned to replicate Ford Mustang BOSS 302
    Comfort Soft to Sports Hard




    Willow Springs International Raceway - Big Willow_72.jpg



    CAR : Ford Mustang BOSS 302 '13
    Tire : Comfort Soft to Sports Hard


    Specs Car & Driver Boss 302 443PS
    Horsepower: 437 HP / 443 PS at 6500 RPM
    Torque: 380.0 ft-lb at 4500 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 98.8%
    Weight: 1663 kg
    Ballast : 198 kg
    Ballast Position : -15
    Weight Distribution : 55 / 45
    Performance Points: 498

    Specs Car & Driver Boss 302 443HP
    Horsepower: 443 HP at 6500 RPM
    Torque: 380.0 ft-lb at 4500 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 100%
    Weight: 1663 kg
    Ballast : 198 kg
    Ballast Position : -15
    Weight Distribution : 55 / 45
    Performance Points: 500


    Specs Car & Driver Boss 302 Laguna Seca 443PS
    Horsepower: 437 HP / 443 PS at 6500 RPM
    Torque: 380.0 ft-lb at 4500 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 98.8%
    Weight: 1652 kg
    Ballast : 187 kg
    Ballast Position : -13
    Weight Distribution : 54.7 / 45.3
    Performance Points: 499

    Specs Car & Driver Boss 302 Laguna Seca 443HP
    Horsepower: 443 HP at 6500 RPM
    Torque: 380.0 ft-lb at 4500 RPM
    Power Limiter at : 100%
    Weight: 1652 kg
    Ballast : 187 kg
    Ballast Position : -13
    Weight Distribution : 54.7 / 45.3
    Performance Points: 500


    GT AUTO
    NO Oil change
    Improve Body Rigidity ( NOT INSTALLED )
    Aero Kits Type A or B ( Optional for Laguna Seca )
    Custom Wing Type A ( Optional for Laguna Seca )
    Wheels : Standard Size Stock or RAYS VoLK TRINITI V in Black or Silver for Laguna Seca
    Car Paint : Monaco Orange or Grabber Blue or Black or Silver.


    Tuning Parts Installed :
    Adjustable LSD
    Fully Customizable Suspension
    Weight Reduction Stage 1


    Willow Springs International Raceway - Big Willow_66.jpg


    Suspension - BOSS Mustang 302 Springs + Damper ( Track Setting )
    Visual Ride Height

    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 123 103
    Spring Rate: 5.00 6.23
    Dampers (Compression): 4 6
    Dampers (Extension): 5 4
    Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
    Camber Angle: 1.0 0.0
    Toe Angle: 0.20 0.00

    Suspension - BOSS Mustang 302 Springs + Damper ( Track Setting )
    Ride Height based on Ground Clearance Data - Optional

    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 137 110
    Spring Rate: 5.00 6.23
    Dampers (Compression): 4 6
    Dampers (Extension): 5 4
    Anti-Roll Bars: 4 3
    Camber Angle: 1.0 0.0
    Toe Angle: 0.20 0.00

    Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca_3.jpg

    Suspension - BOSS Mustang 302 Laguna Seca Springs + Damper ( Track Setting )
    Visual Ride Height

    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 123 103
    Spring Rate: 4.69 6.55
    Dampers (Compression): 4 6
    Dampers (Extension): 5 3
    Anti-Roll Bars: 4 4
    Camber Angle: 1.1 0.0
    Toe Angle: 0.20 0.00

    Suspension - BOSS Mustang 302 Laguna Seca Springs + Damper ( Track Setting )
    Ride Height based on Ground Clearance Data- Optional

    Front, Rear

    Ride Height: 137 110
    Spring Rate: 4.69 6.55
    Dampers (Compression): 4 6
    Dampers (Extension): 5 3
    Anti-Roll Bars: 4 4
    Camber Angle: 1.1 0.0
    Toe Angle: 0.20 0.00

    Street ( Position 1 to 3 ) Damper
    Boss 302
    Dampers (Compression): 1 2
    Dampers (Extension): 2 1

    Boss 302 Laguna Seca :
    Dampers (Compression): 2 2
    Dampers (Extension): 2 2


    Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca_2.jpg


    LSD Ford Torsen Differential ( Mandatory for Boss 302 Laguna Seca )
    Highly Recommended for Boss 302

    Initial Torque : 15
    Acceleration Sensitiviy: 27
    Braking Sensitivity: 5

    LSD Stock ( OPTIONAL for Boss 302 )


    Aero - Optional Wing
    REAR = 20 ( MAX )


    Willow Springs International Raceway - Big Willow_69.jpg


    Brake Balance:
    5/5 ( personal BB) or for ABS 0 wheel : 4/4, for ABS 1 - feel free to use your preferred brake balance.


    Recommended setting for DS3 user :

    Steering sensitivity at +1 or +2, all aids off, except ABS 1 ( if not comfortable with ABS 0 ) with 5/5 brake balance as starting point.


    Notes :

    The Ford Mustang Boss 302 back in the 1970 was legendary, winning races in Trans Am Championship in the hands of Parnelli Jones. Fast forward a few decades, the Boss 302 was revived, same 5 liter V8 naturally aspirated, same concept, track handling Mustang, but this time Ford the bar higher by building a car that can stay close with the best of FR cars from Europe, the BMW E92 M3. The Boss 302 has received very good reviews from numerous motoring magazines, earning good reputation as a formidable track warrior and daily driver like a Boss :D

    The power figure is a bit confusing from my research, Auto Motor Und Sport stated 443PS / 437HP, US magazines stated 444HP. From real life owners report in forums, some Boss 302 has been dynoed with 410-420HP at the wheels, so the power figure is quite modest by Ford, the actual power could be from 455-470+HP. I have set the lowest figure at 437HP / 443 PS as baseline, and I also provide 443HP stock power as option. The 437HP spec is enough to replicate real life performance.

    For weight and distribution, I used 2012 Car & Driver test report, with 3666 lb or 1663 kg and 55/45 manufacturer claimed distribution. This can be used on both Boss 302 and Laguna Seca Edition, but I also include the Car & Driver Boss 302 Laguna Seca test report weight/distribution at 3641 lb + 54.7/45.3, which should offer better balance.

    The differences to Laguna Seca Edition is mainly on revised springs, damper ( stiffer damper calibration, softer front spring, but slightly harder rear spring than vanilla Boss 302 ), higher rate rear stabilizer and rear seat removal, replaced by cross brace for improved rigidity by 10% as well as Torsen Diff comes as standard ( optional on Boss 302 ). The changes gives more sharper handling, better balance for track driving as the Laguna Seca also comes with R compound sticky Pirelli tires which often said good for at least another second compared to the Pirelli P Zero on the Boss 302 ( at Laguna Seca ). Power and weight are said to be similar.

    For suspension, I have the real car spring rate data, but the values are too low for GT6 Boss, so I have to make do with higher rate and used the spring ratio. I set the Boss 302 with slightly higher front spring rate compared to the Laguna Seca to reflect the real life difference. The Street damper are also slightly different, with Laguna Seca has stiffer damper, while the Track Damper for both are closer to each other.
    The real car has 5 setting level adjustable damper front and rear, with 1 as softest for street and 5 for track. I also adapted the real life alignment for Boss 302 and Laguna Seca, with the only difference is front camber.

    Ride height is tricky business for Boss 302 in GT6, the stock height is higher at the front, which only a few cars in GT6 has similar arrangement for stock value. PD might have done something to compensate for the chassis balance, as the higher front visually looks similar to the real car which has slightly raked height / lower front ( Boss 302 has 11mm lower at the front and just 1mm lower at the rear versus the Mustang GT ) I also think that PD might have made mistakes in chassis data input, as the weight distribution is also wrong :)

    After I compared several real life car shots, I lowered the GT6 Boss front height to 123mm, while rear stays at 103mm. This gives much closer look visually compared to Car & Driver test car, but the C&D data also said 5.4 inch ground clearance/ 137mm height, this is also included in the replica suspension, with rear also raised in proportion to 110mm. The base setup is visual ride height with ground clearance height as optional.

    For LSD, the Torsen Diff setup is mandatory for the Laguna Seca Edition, while for Boss 302, you can use the stock LSD if you prefer it. I used the Torsen Diff setup on all version as it offers much better driving experience for me. Gear ratio is correct this time, 6 speed MT-82 with 3.73 rear axle ratio.

    For better performance measure when building this replica, I used real life laps as reference, particularly Laguna Seca lap times. There are several lap times data, but some of them are contradictory, with times that are clashing to each other based on Boss 302 and Laguna Seca expected performance level. Data from fastestlaps.com states, Boss 302 Laguna Seca Edition lap Laguna Seca in 1:39.50, this is reasonable as the LS Edition is generally at least a second quicker ( research hinted the time as done by Road & Track ), while MotorTrend Randy Pobst lap record with Boss 302 LS in 2011 at 1:41.06, is more than a second slower :eek:

    MotorTrend 1st test review on the Boss 302 ( non LS ) is even more surprising, stating that a pro driver who did hot laps posted 1:40s lap time, which is ridiculously quicker than LS driven by Randy Pobst. Not sure if Randy sandbagged the lap or the 1:40s lap time claim were just marketing stunt, but I suspect the Ford provided Boss 302s during the test event was not really stock or the pro driver simply pushed harder, and I have suspicion that the Boss 302 tested has stickier tires as well or it's a typo, should have been 1:41.4 and 1:41.2 ? Who knows :p The typo theory is most plausible for me :lol:

    The under 1:40s claim for Boss 302 LS is correct. The 1:40.2s hot lap record for Boss 302 is a bit hard to believe if done from dealer stock condition Boss 302 and might need real life dyno power figure to be used in GT6 replica ( 410-420 wheel HP or 450-470+HP at the engine / GT6 )

    I used fastestlaps data in the end for reference, 1:39.50 for Laguna Seca Edition and 2011 Boss 302 LS MotorTrend Randy time of 1:41.06 for base line on the Boss 302.

    The R Compound Pirelli P Zero on the Laguna Seca Edition managed very close to 1G lateral grip on 300ft skidpad in Car & Driver test, which should be similar to semi slick performance, this is on hot weather condition that slightly hurt the tire grip when tested as noted by C & D tester which said about greasy feel tire + 0.2s slower in acceleration + lateral G a bit too low. With better condition, the Boss 302 LS would likely to score more than 1G at 300ft skidpad :eek: ( I chose SH in GT6 )

    In my opinion, the CS tire has good traction in straight line, but a bit higher in lateral grip than ideal, while the SH used on the Laguna Seca Edition has the same problem, a bit too much lateral grip overall. If only I can get a tire somewhere in between CS and SH :(

    During my testing, the Boss 302 managed 1:40s at Laguna Seca on CS, 1663kg, 437HP, visual ride height, while the Boss 302 Laguna Seca Ed, managed low 1:39s on SH, 1663kg, 437HP, visual ride height.
    At Tsukuba, the Boss 302 at 443HP, 137/110 ground clearance data height, managed 1:04s on CS tire :crazy:
    While the recent test lap at Big Willow, Boss 302 on 437HP, visual height, 1663kg, CM tire, did 1:31s easily.

    The Boss 302 indeed has been a real contender for the E92 M3, able to perform admirably on various tracks and beating the M3 at Laguna Seca. GT6 stock Boss 302 is not an ideal representation of the real car due to incorrect stats and setup, but with some work ( corrections and tune aimed real life performance ), the Boss 302 indeed can reflect the real car, offering similar driving experience as E92 M3 in GT6.

    I have provided 3 replays of the laps I mentioned above, Tsukuba and Laguna Seca ( Boss 302 and LS Edition ) They are a must watch to witness how the Boss 302 ruled the track :D Use them as a ghost if you wish, and have fun :cheers:



    Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca_4.jpg ford_mustang_boss_302_ls1.jpg

    Randy Pobst Boss 302 LS lap :
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 1, 2015
  21. fla242

    fla242

    Messages:
    33
    Hay, if you can do replic Mitsubishi GTO PitRoadM M-Golden Hayabusa gto ver3 , your replics are very best and profesional,thanks
     
  22. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    I built several Pit Road M GTO in GT5, will need to research again and takes some time to build it, can't promise you when I will post it though.
     
  23. fla242

    fla242

    Messages:
    33
    Ok, very thanks
     
  24. ALB123

    ALB123

    Messages:
    5,162
    Location:
    United States
    Wow...I just finished driving the Boss 302 Laguna Seca on Tsukuba, Mount Panorama and Silverstone. This car is a handful on CS tire. But, I like it. You've really got to be careful coming out of those lower speed corners. It definitely drives well. You've just got to be careful due to its weight - don't come in too hot on those tight turns.

    I've never been a Mustang guy. I grew up in a Chevy family... But, I respect a lot of the Mustangs, including this Boss 302 Laguna Seca Edition. I'm sure a lot of people will like this car. It won't be the fastest 500PP car in your garage, but with a steady hand, you should do just fine.
     
    Pete05 and danbojte like this.
  25. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    The car needs some care on CS tire, even Randy drives smoothly in his 2011 302 LS lap ( on R compound P Zero ) at Seca, and Boss 302 Laguna Seca is on SH tire in GT6 :D

    As a replica the Boss 302 is just as fast if not quicker in lap times against E92 M3 replica on the same comfort tires.

    Have you tried the street damper setup, it's softer and react slower on the track, allowing you to feel the weight more being shifted around.

    When I post the E92 M3, both will be a good match up on the track :D Both hare unique FR car but offers the same level of fun and skill to push on the limit.
     
    danbojte likes this.
  26. ALB123

    ALB123

    Messages:
    5,162
    Location:
    United States
    Yes! I was driving it with the street suspension settings (dampers) around La Sierra for a couple of laps right after I posted. It drives amazingly well with the softer dampers. Granted, I also threw on SH tires. I didn't realize you meant SH tires on the Laguna Seca model standard. It has insane grip with the SH tires -- you can really have a lot of fun on La Sierra with that compound. :tup:
     
    Ridox2JZGTE likes this.
  27. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    This is a good basic level driving tutorial video, I have the video back in 1996, no subtitle then, but I still able to make use of it when I tried the technique on CD9A Lancer GSR :p It's been close to 20 years :D Learned a lot back in the day from Nakaya-san and his driving is still one of the best ( his R33 vs R34 GTR gymkhana test were marvelous )

    With close caption ( english )



    And Randy Pobst lap in Boss 302 LS :

     
  28. danbojte

    danbojte

    Messages:
    3,372
    Location:
    Romania
    A-spec Intermediate Level Non-Racing Car Challenge:
    Eiger Nordwand Short Track / Reverse

    Winners:

    No Aids, No ABS, G27
    PP: 500, HP: 443, Tyres: Sports Hard,
    BB: 6/6
    Rims: Rays 57 Ultimate (my option - the spokes' design is closer to the original) :sly:

    PzlXbOqWjFWoCx4J78_0[1].jpg

    :tup:

    _________________________________________

    No Aids, No ABS, G27
    PP:490, HP: 414, Tyres: Comfort Soft


    aiSMf2SGVPa4xG6Yet_0[1].jpg

    :tup:
    P. S. : I wish I have a capture card...

    ____________________________________________

    Update:

    Toyota VITZ F "RS" Turbo 2012 Silk Road RM/A8 244HP 450PP Comfort Soft to Sports Medium

    No Aids, No ABS, G27, Cockpit view

    PP:450, HP: 231, Tyres: Sports Hard
    RPM gauge added.

    a0lgHn1LJdEcqXgdf_0[1].jpg

    Big pleasure, excellent car! It's a must for everyone. :tup:
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2015
    Thorin Cain and Ridox2JZGTE like this.
  29. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

    Messages:
    11,660
    Have you compared it to other FR car in GT6 ? What do you think is better, the Boss 302 or Camaro SS '10 ( stock ) ?
     
  30. ALB123

    ALB123

    Messages:
    5,162
    Location:
    United States
    Ridox, I have one of my Ferrari F40's setup to your EU Market Autosport Mag specifications (553PP) Would you recommend that I just turn down the power limiter to reach this week's seasonal limit of 550PP?

    I also have your US Spec F40 (543PP), that I don't drive as much, and was wondering if I would be better off just trying to over-power that specific car to reach 550PP for this event. One thing I noticed with the US Spec car is, there is 174 kg added as ballast at position 1. If I removed that ballast, I'm sure it would increase the PP quite substantially. I'm not in front of my PS3 at the moment, but I figured I would ask my favorite GT6 tuning engineer for his advice. :D

    One thing that kills me about GT6 (I haven't played any other version) is they offer these 2 drifting events every other week. I'd be willing to bet my life that participation is substantially less than it is for super laps and A-Spec racing. Yet, they don't have a 1/4 mile drag strip with working christmas tree lights, or a skidpad for testing lateral G forces.

    I bring that up because of the question you asked danbojte. It would be nice to be able to use those two things I mentioned for testing cars. Sure, I can save replay files and export to MoTeC Pro and pull data myself. Do you know how long that takes to do? So, if I'm trying out different gear ratios, for instance, I've got to do a 1/4 mile run (half mile track would be even better, for supercars), remember to save the replay and then export it to MoTeC data on a USB stick. Then put that stick in my laptop and open the data in MoTeC. Analyse the data and then repeat the process all over again with some changes I made to the gear ratios. Rinse and repeat. Rinse and repeat. Now, I could do five different quarter mile runs with different ratios each time in its own saved replay file and export five MoTeC data files onto my USB stick so I can import those 5 runs at the same time. That's still a ridiculously tedious process.
     
    Ridox2JZGTE likes this.