- 532
- Canada
I proved with Trying Various mounting methods, Vertical, Horizontal, All feet mounted, Only 2 feet mounted with Isolators and without and in the end the Mini LFE frame Sucks compared to the gamer2 frame Side by side.
SimVibe (SimXperience)
- Thread starter the_greeze
- 934 comments
- 153,745 views
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
Yeah I remember your issue Nick, was driving you mad, though dont recall you sharing much on building a proper isolated frame with good dampening material below the units for your seat, (harder with motion too). As mentioned, I know the clamp makes very good contact and not just on one face/surface. I may be wrong, been wrong before so even if I assume it is more to do with the clamp than the extended arm kinda curious.
My own units are attached to clamps that surround my steel tubing with either double or triple bars (no arm) and also works great. This does not mean you cant get good results the traditional way as @HoiHman and others have done so with metal builds and good isolation. IIRC he even showed with vibration app at the time the improvement it made.
It may be that installing the typical way on one sufrace with some metals yes requires more wattage compared to BK clamp to get similar results.
Would find it fascinating if someone did tests and out of curiosity to replicate what an arm does.
If adding slight up/down possible motion to a unit via small springs or foam/rubber underneath to give a small amount of travel and not just bolt to bare steel/metal is any improvement or not.
This issue also seems less of a factor with people using wood or MDF builds.
My own units are attached to clamps that surround my steel tubing with either double or triple bars (no arm) and also works great. This does not mean you cant get good results the traditional way as @HoiHman and others have done so with metal builds and good isolation. IIRC he even showed with vibration app at the time the improvement it made.
It may be that installing the typical way on one sufrace with some metals yes requires more wattage compared to BK clamp to get similar results.
Would find it fascinating if someone did tests and out of curiosity to replicate what an arm does.
If adding slight up/down possible motion to a unit via small springs or foam/rubber underneath to give a small amount of travel and not just bolt to bare steel/metal is any improvement or not.
This issue also seems less of a factor with people using wood or MDF builds.
- 1,238
- Humboldt / CA
- GT-R_HumboldtEF
@grog, interesting and nice rig....
I have a query as your first method used the upright mount holes of the mini lfe, the main body of the piston was not in contact with the metal surface below the piston.
All 3 feet can be used to transfer the energy. I think that certainly would make a difference with what you have now. Basically, you had a vertical piston transferring its energy via its slim back metal plate attached horizontally.
Your current application does help transmit the energy better and for the energy to pass through where you want it to be felt with fairly good proximity. Yet I'm curious as it still does nothing however to prevent vibrations traveling through the whole frame and not sustained in the seat/pedals.
If you had all feet of the mini lfe getting contact and mounted directly on top/below. This will direct the most energy so have it where you want it to be felt first as its first point of travel. Importantly though if we restrict the platform they are connected too by isolating it as best possible from the rest of the frame then this way you ensure you have:
1) good contact with all feet
2) direct placement for best possible strength
3) dampen slightly with rubber type cushioning to avoid metal pinging
4) isolated platform maintains better/longer the energy by greatly reducing the tactile leaking
Tactile is just like water, it will fill and it will flow. Therefore we can direct this flow and restrict how or where it may go.
Hey thanks Mr Latte.
Unfortunately I dont have any space to mount the LFEs any other way. I have a hunch that mounting all 3 feet and placing it directly above the arm would not change the results much if at all, but i do see what you mean. I feel like that's likely to be overkill since the current configuration seems to transfer every little bit of vibration with only 2 bolts very well. The fronts are mounted directly above the arm and the rears hang off the side of the arm but both seem to feel very similar. The vibrations are directed towards the pedals and seat quite well by the way. The force from the transducers actually moves these arms up and down a tiny bit which translates into much more vibration being transferred.
As for vibration getting lost in the frame, its so powerful now I'm not worried if I lose out a tiny bit, its actually bordering on too strong now.
The whole rig is mounted on big rubber feet (retractable casters, very handy for moving the rig)
I believe the ability to move (think more in terms of flexing) is actually more beneficial to performance than a firm mount. This cant help response time at all but it improves strength greatly.
After I made this change I had to come up with a method for securing my mouse so that it would not vibrate off of its pad, that never happened before. I used a cell phone pad (sticky rubber) meant for holding phones in a car.
Also don't take my response the wrong way either I do appreciate your input, i just wanted to voice my take on things.
- 532
- Canada
I tried isolating the seat itself from the Seat frame itself with big thick ass rubber grommets. different mounting positions, different positions on the seat frame itself, the Side mount Seat adjusters and Nothing helped aside from Literally swapping the Mini LFE shaker into the Gamer 2 shaker's Mount. NIGHT and day difference. No amount of extra wattage fed to the Mini lfe's would solve this problem, they just clipped more and got hot.
Remember my rig is wood base with a CV/U joint on the bottom of my metal seat frame. This isn't a standard static rig, its motion remember.
From my experience, the amount of tactile i got from 2 mini LFE's mounted in a variety of ways was in the range if 1/4 of what a Single Gamer 2 could perform. So this is where i had the major disconnect, thinking a Simulation kit with 2x the shaker's and a bit more wattage should have been an Amazing experience, well it wasn't and required the Gamer mounts for it to be effective in the end. With the single Gamer 2, i could rattle my eye balls so a point of not being able to see properly, the Mini LFE's couldn't even muster a little eye ball shake without the frame swap.
If you haven't tested a Gamer 2 side by side with a Mini LFE.....you have No clue what your missing out on.
I was darn close to making my own Gamer 2 style mounts before Guitammer came up with some older Not sell able gamer 2 frames they found in the warehouse.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
Hi @grog, no worries....
Appreciate yours and indeed @Nick Moxley replies.
You both have experienced what you have, one cant argue with that but I can query about it. So my discussing this is based on curiosity and genuine interest what/why the clamp or if leverage is a factor with this particular unit. I cover much more below, if its of interest please comment in this rather dead thread or if not, well just ignore my ramblings.
I had on/off mulled over the idea of doing either a YT channel or forum/thread in future with various tests and properly comparing and reviewing all tactile units as really nobody has properly done this in detail. Additionally with no sponsered commitments/bias towards any particular brand or product.
My own user experience with many of the products has been of some benefits to seeing what is possible but by no means does this mean I am or indeed want to be viewed as a "know it all" on the subject. If anything I have no problems being corrected and like my views to be challenged. My own odd way of being, often complicates matters more than simplifing them due to my nature of "what if" and often curiosity to tinker. The "dual role idea", the "monitoring of Simvibe channels, its frequencies or db". Improving the immersion connection of "audio/tactile hardware" including usage of marrying "subwoofers" to compliment the tactile with audible bass energy and specific possible inclusion of "Clark Synthesis" for highlighting directional effects over just shaker units. Really in the interest of combining what we see, hear, feel all together.
Going back to this issue...
I do think more emphasis has been put on the improvements this offers being down to the "arm/extension", yet I question, is it more of a contributor than the clamp mechanisim? Ahhh one wonders and this is why I highlight that it does make full body contact with what its connected too. Perhaps both are factors indeed but I am now curious as to what is the main contributor. It hasn't been thouroughly identified really has it?
Before/After
@grog
Originally on your own build you had the units using the side plate which is the worst way to mount them. It is not the preffered choice recommended by BK. I have seen several pictures of peoples builds doing the same on various forums over the years and they use the side plate option when clearly it states in the manual.
"The ButtKicker mini LFE should be attached to all 3 screw holes in the feet. This is the preferred mounting method."
So some of the benefits your feeling would be down to now using the feet and base of the unit, yes? Again we do not know for sure until doing a comparison with what you now have or to my own recomendation of mounting and isolation of the seat or pedal section from the mainframe, which may be better? You are happy with what you have and thats what matters, most people seek a pretty decent tactile sensation they get it, they go on to enjoy it.
People will upgrade wheels/shifters and other factors often before looking to expand on their tactile experience. With respect and I have stated this a few times for it to fall on deaf ears. The "mini lfe is like a G27" if we were talking wheels in what it can bring in immersion. It is what it is and that, is an entry level unit for what it does.
In fairness, you guys really have not experienced proper tactile energy and sensations you can get from some kerbs or effects unless you have the fullsize LFE unit. Even the Advance model while good falls short. Volume or intensity of a small unit at or beyond its peak is a different thing. Im referring to the energy in bone conduction of low bass, that below 35Hz and sub-harmonics down to 10Hz or lower which the mini lfe does not get close to properly delivering and regardless of paper specs.
Vibration / Vision
I seem to also be not prone to "eyeball shaking or bluriness", I see this commented by people with Mini lfe, Aura Pro, ADX even Dayton Pucs and think, gees if you guys think that is strong or deep vibrations how I'd like you to spend 30 mins with my own. Yet I still wouldnt say I have an issue with blurred vision or eye popping so maybe like electrical shocks some people are more prone to it than others?
Very few people on these forums or other places have experience of the fullsize LFE, or using multiple units of them combined due of course to the costs and amplifers they require. So while many are getting enjoyable tactile experiences, it is still quite far off what is possible with higher end hardware. I dont expext people to investment crazily into "Tactile" before a "DD Wheel" or "Motion" but I do know having owned most units what exactly they offer in performance and comparison. Even then I still experimented and combined usage of multiple units as I found limitations in either detail, or low end power with them used individually.
Mini LFE Clamps/Mounts
If we look at SimXperience own clamp/brackets you will notice that it actually uses all 3 feet, the sides and top to make total contact (not just on one surface) with their metal frame cockpits.
Really no other unit has people seeking to use extended arms, this is not to say having some movement does not help but I question does some dampening underneath the unit with possibly rubber washers not do similar? It too should allow a few mm of movement of the body of the unit to respond to the motion/energy of the piston. So is an arm necessary or better? I genuinely ask, has it ever been properly looked at and compared, is the clamp and full contact with more than one surface a lesser/greater value?
If we look at other products from BK or from any company. "Earthquake Shell ShoXX" is similar to the gamer with identical clamp. The "Pearl Thumper" is a version of the BK Advance with clamp type method but both of those are designed with drum thrones/stool/office chairs and recently been adapted by cockpit companies.
To give an example the fullsize LFE bracket for a drum throne/stool does not have a clamp or arm. It uses 6mm steel plate (it is rather heavy of course) but is full mounted to the surface. My question is if an arm or bracket is so vital why then are most of the brands not offering such solutuons or even cockpit companies making clamps in such a way? Lets all put tactile on arms like a La Ferrari's mirrors, I jest but you get what Im saying. The Mini lfe is a bit of a mystery in this regard it seems.
Trial & Error
I am a real nerd when it comes to this clearly, most people would find a happy solution after the 1st or 2nd attempt. Below I will show how my own goal has been to not settle with a decent or 1st 2nd attempt but continue (in time) to learn and seek better instalations. So I appreciate all your own input from your individual builds.
Mimicing the BK GAMER clamp. I tried the below last year with this clamp/wood using a central steel tube connected to the uprights of my cockpits seat tubing. This for me with the full size unit did not produce its best performance from an arm and clamp. Like you guys I can only go by what testing proved.
However the same unit has been tested in 3 different ways and placements on my temp build before I found the best working solution. Really I have learned in the benefits of trying to maintain the L/R to stay as pure as possible but also the benefits of preventing leakage and better directing how/where the tactile goes. To deliver the effects better (regardless of how strong) for improved immersion but in future even I want to improve this by better isolation.
Rejected
Individual L/R sections like ladders, overkill?
All below Rejected
Secure and substantial but flawed
Too much energy going to waste....
One of many tests with Clark TST
Side mounted Clarke TST could leak energy down to uprights at same time as reaching seat. LFE energy would transmit energy everywhere and not directed to benefit seat as 1st priority or contain the tactile in a platform that has substantial isolation.
Side mounted contacts into seat branching from a single tube did not produce as much effect as using dual tubes direct into seat runners
Dual tubes with fully surrounding clamp improves energy flow, arms do not budge or have any movement. Testing twin rear TST 429 units (per channel) compared to single unit and also comparing the front and rear positions. Since this my BK LFE has been tested with similar but using triple steel tubes going direct into surrounding clamp directly bolted to the seat runners. My preference has been LFE at front and TST at rear (dual role) on the same channel.
This did work very well and is ideal for enhancing Simvibe engine effects into spine/shoulders via extension mode. For potential performance immprovements, it again delivers its own effects seperated away from other units (maintains channel purity) but still enabling recline functionality of seat with the extended tubing and clamps.
I still seek many improvements but want to focus on benefits of isolation next and put the theory to test myself. Also to make the installation tider/more compact with the units below the seating.
Appreciate yours and indeed @Nick Moxley replies.
You both have experienced what you have, one cant argue with that but I can query about it. So my discussing this is based on curiosity and genuine interest what/why the clamp or if leverage is a factor with this particular unit. I cover much more below, if its of interest please comment in this rather dead thread or if not, well just ignore my ramblings.
I had on/off mulled over the idea of doing either a YT channel or forum/thread in future with various tests and properly comparing and reviewing all tactile units as really nobody has properly done this in detail. Additionally with no sponsered commitments/bias towards any particular brand or product.
My own user experience with many of the products has been of some benefits to seeing what is possible but by no means does this mean I am or indeed want to be viewed as a "know it all" on the subject. If anything I have no problems being corrected and like my views to be challenged. My own odd way of being, often complicates matters more than simplifing them due to my nature of "what if" and often curiosity to tinker. The "dual role idea", the "monitoring of Simvibe channels, its frequencies or db". Improving the immersion connection of "audio/tactile hardware" including usage of marrying "subwoofers" to compliment the tactile with audible bass energy and specific possible inclusion of "Clark Synthesis" for highlighting directional effects over just shaker units. Really in the interest of combining what we see, hear, feel all together.
Going back to this issue...
I do think more emphasis has been put on the improvements this offers being down to the "arm/extension", yet I question, is it more of a contributor than the clamp mechanisim? Ahhh one wonders and this is why I highlight that it does make full body contact with what its connected too. Perhaps both are factors indeed but I am now curious as to what is the main contributor. It hasn't been thouroughly identified really has it?
Before/After
@grog
Originally on your own build you had the units using the side plate which is the worst way to mount them. It is not the preffered choice recommended by BK. I have seen several pictures of peoples builds doing the same on various forums over the years and they use the side plate option when clearly it states in the manual.
"The ButtKicker mini LFE should be attached to all 3 screw holes in the feet. This is the preferred mounting method."
So some of the benefits your feeling would be down to now using the feet and base of the unit, yes? Again we do not know for sure until doing a comparison with what you now have or to my own recomendation of mounting and isolation of the seat or pedal section from the mainframe, which may be better? You are happy with what you have and thats what matters, most people seek a pretty decent tactile sensation they get it, they go on to enjoy it.
People will upgrade wheels/shifters and other factors often before looking to expand on their tactile experience. With respect and I have stated this a few times for it to fall on deaf ears. The "mini lfe is like a G27" if we were talking wheels in what it can bring in immersion. It is what it is and that, is an entry level unit for what it does.
In fairness, you guys really have not experienced proper tactile energy and sensations you can get from some kerbs or effects unless you have the fullsize LFE unit. Even the Advance model while good falls short. Volume or intensity of a small unit at or beyond its peak is a different thing. Im referring to the energy in bone conduction of low bass, that below 35Hz and sub-harmonics down to 10Hz or lower which the mini lfe does not get close to properly delivering and regardless of paper specs.
Vibration / Vision
I seem to also be not prone to "eyeball shaking or bluriness", I see this commented by people with Mini lfe, Aura Pro, ADX even Dayton Pucs and think, gees if you guys think that is strong or deep vibrations how I'd like you to spend 30 mins with my own. Yet I still wouldnt say I have an issue with blurred vision or eye popping so maybe like electrical shocks some people are more prone to it than others?
Very few people on these forums or other places have experience of the fullsize LFE, or using multiple units of them combined due of course to the costs and amplifers they require. So while many are getting enjoyable tactile experiences, it is still quite far off what is possible with higher end hardware. I dont expext people to investment crazily into "Tactile" before a "DD Wheel" or "Motion" but I do know having owned most units what exactly they offer in performance and comparison. Even then I still experimented and combined usage of multiple units as I found limitations in either detail, or low end power with them used individually.
Mini LFE Clamps/Mounts
If we look at SimXperience own clamp/brackets you will notice that it actually uses all 3 feet, the sides and top to make total contact (not just on one surface) with their metal frame cockpits.
Really no other unit has people seeking to use extended arms, this is not to say having some movement does not help but I question does some dampening underneath the unit with possibly rubber washers not do similar? It too should allow a few mm of movement of the body of the unit to respond to the motion/energy of the piston. So is an arm necessary or better? I genuinely ask, has it ever been properly looked at and compared, is the clamp and full contact with more than one surface a lesser/greater value?
If we look at other products from BK or from any company. "Earthquake Shell ShoXX" is similar to the gamer with identical clamp. The "Pearl Thumper" is a version of the BK Advance with clamp type method but both of those are designed with drum thrones/stool/office chairs and recently been adapted by cockpit companies.
To give an example the fullsize LFE bracket for a drum throne/stool does not have a clamp or arm. It uses 6mm steel plate (it is rather heavy of course) but is full mounted to the surface. My question is if an arm or bracket is so vital why then are most of the brands not offering such solutuons or even cockpit companies making clamps in such a way? Lets all put tactile on arms like a La Ferrari's mirrors, I jest but you get what Im saying. The Mini lfe is a bit of a mystery in this regard it seems.
Trial & Error
I am a real nerd when it comes to this clearly, most people would find a happy solution after the 1st or 2nd attempt. Below I will show how my own goal has been to not settle with a decent or 1st 2nd attempt but continue (in time) to learn and seek better instalations. So I appreciate all your own input from your individual builds.
Mimicing the BK GAMER clamp. I tried the below last year with this clamp/wood using a central steel tube connected to the uprights of my cockpits seat tubing. This for me with the full size unit did not produce its best performance from an arm and clamp. Like you guys I can only go by what testing proved.
However the same unit has been tested in 3 different ways and placements on my temp build before I found the best working solution. Really I have learned in the benefits of trying to maintain the L/R to stay as pure as possible but also the benefits of preventing leakage and better directing how/where the tactile goes. To deliver the effects better (regardless of how strong) for improved immersion but in future even I want to improve this by better isolation.
Rejected
Individual L/R sections like ladders, overkill?
All below Rejected
Secure and substantial but flawed
Too much energy going to waste....
One of many tests with Clark TST
Side mounted Clarke TST could leak energy down to uprights at same time as reaching seat. LFE energy would transmit energy everywhere and not directed to benefit seat as 1st priority or contain the tactile in a platform that has substantial isolation.
Side mounted contacts into seat branching from a single tube did not produce as much effect as using dual tubes direct into seat runners
Dual tubes with fully surrounding clamp improves energy flow, arms do not budge or have any movement. Testing twin rear TST 429 units (per channel) compared to single unit and also comparing the front and rear positions. Since this my BK LFE has been tested with similar but using triple steel tubes going direct into surrounding clamp directly bolted to the seat runners. My preference has been LFE at front and TST at rear (dual role) on the same channel.
This did work very well and is ideal for enhancing Simvibe engine effects into spine/shoulders via extension mode. For potential performance immprovements, it again delivers its own effects seperated away from other units (maintains channel purity) but still enabling recline functionality of seat with the extended tubing and clamps.
I still seek many improvements but want to focus on benefits of isolation next and put the theory to test myself. Also to make the installation tider/more compact with the units below the seating.
Last edited:
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
Your Own User Views With Simvibe?
This goes out to anyone reading feel free to share your impressions, good bad whatever...
Building For Multi-Dimension?
For me as a nutty hobbyist, clearly I started (inspired by someone here) the above TEST build in search of taking Simvibe to and beyond its max potential. I think its fair to say even a SimX cockpit had tactile added to it, it was never designed from the ground up for tactile. So what about a build that was and pushed forward to use higher end hardware or creativity? That still is my own main interest with sim racing and gaming in general.
A build that would incorporate independant L/R sides purely for tactile delivery. My thoughts if having a L/R platfrom then only the physical seat and the pedals act as the horizontal bridge that contains both sides together. So my current test build was keeping L/R vibrations to be "non corrupted" in the hope to extend Simvibes directional or what they call "Multi-dimensional Effects" for best possible individual channel clarity. They would not arrive at the seat/pedals already with corruptuion from either side no sir.
This does bring some benefits but if anything it highlights the weakenss of Simvibe in how few effects utilse stereo or feel fully directional. My dissappointment to find only games with "Suspension Effects" contain directional L/R. Lots of fun little games like GRID series are just Mono even if it does deliver various "dimensions" of different effects.
Your Build Issues or Pros/Cons
Id like to here other peoples views and experiences.
Simvibe Updates
New things are coming, some features will help give us more control.
Better control of layers (finally)
Sine / Square / Sawtooth or Triangle?
Where or What is Multi-dimenson?
So, first things first many effects are really good, this isnt me just badgering the software. This term used better represents "multiple effects" all being available and adaptable. It does not seem to relate to being fully "multi-directional" with the delivery of its effects.
From my own testing thus far "several effects" are not clearly detectable to a single quadrant channel or position. So reversing the left rear quarter panel into a pit wall does not result in an appropriate directional impact feeling much stonger. Now wether this is a limiataion of the "physics data" from the actual title or current "Simvibe code" I cant say. It is, what it is but my query is which game/sim offers their very best usage of directional effects. I assume it could be "i-racing" but does even it produce such? I dont really play that and some of you may be able to compare it to Assetto Corsa from a Simvibe perspective?
Differences / Similarities & Combining Them
A user with Dolby Digital / Surround sound can trace objects to individual channels, this is my point, therefore audio tactile can deliver good L/R or F/R effects (dependent on the sound design of title). So I find lack of this (from own testing) in Simvibe a bit mmmmm. Dont get me wrong my Simvibe immersion is rather brill in many ways doing many things "audio tactile cant" but as a tactile hobbyist I seek options/benefits.
This is not a Vs argument, I am looking at options, so if audio tactile can also help to enhance engine characteristics, other cars and increase the L/R directional kerbs as well as surfaces that Simvibe does nothing with. I personally still have an interest in seeking and testing all options or posibilities for immersion. Some may work some may not. I have already began testing with using both Audio & Simvibe combined, with it has to be said, getting good results on my own platform/hardware. So was wondering if we have any people here interested in discussing the pros/cons of each option or joining testing in a new thread sharing each others opinions likes and dislikes?
I would welcome other peoples impressions on some of the best Simvibe titles or experiences from your own opinions. This thread has been dormant for so long as well. Surely some still have an interest in discussing it?
Its upto you guys...
This goes out to anyone reading feel free to share your impressions, good bad whatever...
Building For Multi-Dimension?
For me as a nutty hobbyist, clearly I started (inspired by someone here) the above TEST build in search of taking Simvibe to and beyond its max potential. I think its fair to say even a SimX cockpit had tactile added to it, it was never designed from the ground up for tactile. So what about a build that was and pushed forward to use higher end hardware or creativity? That still is my own main interest with sim racing and gaming in general.
A build that would incorporate independant L/R sides purely for tactile delivery. My thoughts if having a L/R platfrom then only the physical seat and the pedals act as the horizontal bridge that contains both sides together. So my current test build was keeping L/R vibrations to be "non corrupted" in the hope to extend Simvibes directional or what they call "Multi-dimensional Effects" for best possible individual channel clarity. They would not arrive at the seat/pedals already with corruptuion from either side no sir.
This does bring some benefits but if anything it highlights the weakenss of Simvibe in how few effects utilse stereo or feel fully directional. My dissappointment to find only games with "Suspension Effects" contain directional L/R. Lots of fun little games like GRID series are just Mono even if it does deliver various "dimensions" of different effects.
Your Build Issues or Pros/Cons
Id like to here other peoples views and experiences.
Simvibe Updates
New things are coming, some features will help give us more control.
Better control of layers (finally)
Sine / Square / Sawtooth or Triangle?
Where or What is Multi-dimenson?
So, first things first many effects are really good, this isnt me just badgering the software. This term used better represents "multiple effects" all being available and adaptable. It does not seem to relate to being fully "multi-directional" with the delivery of its effects.
From my own testing thus far "several effects" are not clearly detectable to a single quadrant channel or position. So reversing the left rear quarter panel into a pit wall does not result in an appropriate directional impact feeling much stonger. Now wether this is a limiataion of the "physics data" from the actual title or current "Simvibe code" I cant say. It is, what it is but my query is which game/sim offers their very best usage of directional effects. I assume it could be "i-racing" but does even it produce such? I dont really play that and some of you may be able to compare it to Assetto Corsa from a Simvibe perspective?
Differences / Similarities & Combining Them
A user with Dolby Digital / Surround sound can trace objects to individual channels, this is my point, therefore audio tactile can deliver good L/R or F/R effects (dependent on the sound design of title). So I find lack of this (from own testing) in Simvibe a bit mmmmm. Dont get me wrong my Simvibe immersion is rather brill in many ways doing many things "audio tactile cant" but as a tactile hobbyist I seek options/benefits.
This is not a Vs argument, I am looking at options, so if audio tactile can also help to enhance engine characteristics, other cars and increase the L/R directional kerbs as well as surfaces that Simvibe does nothing with. I personally still have an interest in seeking and testing all options or posibilities for immersion. Some may work some may not. I have already began testing with using both Audio & Simvibe combined, with it has to be said, getting good results on my own platform/hardware. So was wondering if we have any people here interested in discussing the pros/cons of each option or joining testing in a new thread sharing each others opinions likes and dislikes?
I would welcome other peoples impressions on some of the best Simvibe titles or experiences from your own opinions. This thread has been dormant for so long as well. Surely some still have an interest in discussing it?
Its upto you guys...
Last edited:
- 1,238
- Humboldt / CA
- GT-R_HumboldtEF
I can think of one simple test I can do to look a little deeper into the lever arms effect. It's very easy to relocate the LFEs on the lever arm setup I have, so I could compare the shortest distance (on the arm) vs longest, and maybe in the middle. I'm not sure if this would be valuable or not as I can already predict the results. Or maybe I should check out side mount vs bottom mount.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
Would be appreciated, the geek in me says go for it and it would help to understand if the leverage is a good factor and what differences you come across. The question is if the leverage is a good contributing factor then whats the ideal length, would for instance even longer give you even greater sensation?
You are still using one length of 80/20 though for this with your approach in comparison. Not sure in future youd feel to do the suggestion below but here it is anyways and somebody may consider doing such in future. While not identical it is along the principles I will apply in my own build.
So my own presumed ideal, would be two lengths per side for the pedals, approx 4-5" wide apart with a steel plate bolted to them and then the mini lfe mounted to the plate. This way each platfrom can be isolated and better avoid blending of the channels.
It also gives 2x the physical structure supplying the tactile force and with having these connected to an isolated platfrom not the main frame. Thats an important factor again from my understanding of maintaining the tactile better in the individual plates/sides.
This could be done with 4x rubber isolators on the main frame, a mdf or steel sheet platform raised from it. Then secondary isolators 4x per side for the L/R plates. A hole cut in the support platform to let the mini lfe hang down. The pedals attached to the topside of the two plates or independant sections.
---------------------------------------------------
Seems toes are very sensitive to bumps felt in the pedal stems/plates but our heels with more bone structure seem to make better detection of the thump/impact. Well thats what I found with testing my dual role config.
I had the full size LFE which has no problems having tactile energy go from the heel right into the calves/legs with good depth of force. It was attached to a heel platfrom for pedals with a TST unit producing very detailed and fast tactile response targeted at the pedal stem/toe sections. Both units were on the same channel but I was using their own frequencies and wattages to better suit their own characteristics.
It really depends on the lengths people want to go to but lets say I have moved on from a Gamepod with an Aura Pro attached to a pedal plate. It may be that with the additional energy of such units I am using perhaps it makes more sense to try and achieve better stereo effects on isolated platforms both in the feet and seat.
Although to be fair I think the principle does have merit for a good tactile experience both in Simvibe and Audio Tactile sources with any quality of units used.
You are still using one length of 80/20 though for this with your approach in comparison. Not sure in future youd feel to do the suggestion below but here it is anyways and somebody may consider doing such in future. While not identical it is along the principles I will apply in my own build.
So my own presumed ideal, would be two lengths per side for the pedals, approx 4-5" wide apart with a steel plate bolted to them and then the mini lfe mounted to the plate. This way each platfrom can be isolated and better avoid blending of the channels.
It also gives 2x the physical structure supplying the tactile force and with having these connected to an isolated platfrom not the main frame. Thats an important factor again from my understanding of maintaining the tactile better in the individual plates/sides.
This could be done with 4x rubber isolators on the main frame, a mdf or steel sheet platform raised from it. Then secondary isolators 4x per side for the L/R plates. A hole cut in the support platform to let the mini lfe hang down. The pedals attached to the topside of the two plates or independant sections.
---------------------------------------------------
Seems toes are very sensitive to bumps felt in the pedal stems/plates but our heels with more bone structure seem to make better detection of the thump/impact. Well thats what I found with testing my dual role config.
I had the full size LFE which has no problems having tactile energy go from the heel right into the calves/legs with good depth of force. It was attached to a heel platfrom for pedals with a TST unit producing very detailed and fast tactile response targeted at the pedal stem/toe sections. Both units were on the same channel but I was using their own frequencies and wattages to better suit their own characteristics.
It really depends on the lengths people want to go to but lets say I have moved on from a Gamepod with an Aura Pro attached to a pedal plate. It may be that with the additional energy of such units I am using perhaps it makes more sense to try and achieve better stereo effects on isolated platforms both in the feet and seat.
Although to be fair I think the principle does have merit for a good tactile experience both in Simvibe and Audio Tactile sources with any quality of units used.
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- 1,238
- Humboldt / CA
- GT-R_HumboldtEF
Alright I'll play around with the length a bit.
I'm trying to come up with a good way to quantify the results, I found an app called VibSensor that should give a decent comparison. I think I'll secure the phone to the pedal plate and unplug the rear so I can isolate just the fronts.
I'm trying to come up with a good way to quantify the results, I found an app called VibSensor that should give a decent comparison. I think I'll secure the phone to the pedal plate and unplug the rear so I can isolate just the fronts.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
Okay appreciate it and yes thick rubber bands can help secure a device with some degree of tension.
IIRC this may of been the one Henk used, not sure if better apps have come since.
When doing the test can you also try to compare not just both units but one L/R shaker at a time to help determine how the left units energy is felt on both the left and the right hand side of the cockpits main frame.
Additionally as another test if you want. While we can never prevent this from happening in the pedals themselves but we can prevent corruption of left/right vibrations mixing prior to direct contact with independant platforms if isolated. This I feel is one area my own preference may help to produce better clarity of each individual unit at their point of impact/contact.
IIRC this may of been the one Henk used, not sure if better apps have come since.
When doing the test can you also try to compare not just both units but one L/R shaker at a time to help determine how the left units energy is felt on both the left and the right hand side of the cockpits main frame.
Additionally as another test if you want. While we can never prevent this from happening in the pedals themselves but we can prevent corruption of left/right vibrations mixing prior to direct contact with independant platforms if isolated. This I feel is one area my own preference may help to produce better clarity of each individual unit at their point of impact/contact.
- 1,166
- The Netherlands
- HoiHman
- HoiHman
Still watching this thread. Reading and learning about tactile is always intresting...
I'm pretty happy with my tactile solution atm, but looking at Rodney's rig i can see there's allways ways for me to improve. Having tactile with a GS-4 seat is different to a normal race seat though. You are basically sitting on four panels which are 4 different tactile zones.
I have some tactile upgrade plans for the future and i still regret that i didn't buy 4 used LFE's when they were offered realy cheap (100bucks) on our "local ebay"
I'm still looking for good transducers for engine rpm, the mini LFE's do a fine job, but i has be a quieter solution because the noise is driving my wife crazy
These are very exciting times for simracers. Just a couple of years ago we were still depend on the audio comming from the game. We already have simvibe, but just around the corner there's "Game Vibe" a new addition to simtools 2.0.
This will give us more options to choose from, but hopefully also better game support.
With all the goodies: Good Tactile, AF, GS4 and Simwind in VR i have had some unbelievable "presence moments" while racing. Really believing i was sitting in car.
Great times for us simracers 👍
@Rodney: I currently looking for a way by using software to boost the level of soundcard that sends out the 4 channel simbive chassis. The audio card needs to be in quadrafonic mode. In this mode currently the output level is too low for my liking. Do you know a programm that has that capability (besides the Inuke sofware)
I'm pretty happy with my tactile solution atm, but looking at Rodney's rig i can see there's allways ways for me to improve. Having tactile with a GS-4 seat is different to a normal race seat though. You are basically sitting on four panels which are 4 different tactile zones.
I have some tactile upgrade plans for the future and i still regret that i didn't buy 4 used LFE's when they were offered realy cheap (100bucks) on our "local ebay"
I'm still looking for good transducers for engine rpm, the mini LFE's do a fine job, but i has be a quieter solution because the noise is driving my wife crazy
These are very exciting times for simracers. Just a couple of years ago we were still depend on the audio comming from the game. We already have simvibe, but just around the corner there's "Game Vibe" a new addition to simtools 2.0.
This will give us more options to choose from, but hopefully also better game support.
With all the goodies: Good Tactile, AF, GS4 and Simwind in VR i have had some unbelievable "presence moments" while racing. Really believing i was sitting in car.
Great times for us simracers 👍
@Rodney: I currently looking for a way by using software to boost the level of soundcard that sends out the 4 channel simbive chassis. The audio card needs to be in quadrafonic mode. In this mode currently the output level is too low for my liking. Do you know a programm that has that capability (besides the Inuke sofware)
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Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
Henk nice to hear from you and see you posting as you can tell I still like to tinker with this topic...
Get what your saying about the seat and it being a metal bucket basically so the effects should be direct but curious why then you want more volume especially with your good wife already complaining lol.
Easily spent over 100 hrs looking/monitoring effects in Assetto Corsa over the summer and getting a better grasp (finally) from actual experience using it. More to do but again the lack of others seemingly seeking to get the most out of it makes me believe most people are happy to settle with autotune or fairly basic profiles. Again my flaws in complicating things, me being an oddball, as things seem fine for most folk as they are.
Anyways thought by now you could have had some better isolation/sound deadening solutions to keep the wife happy. Especially a man with your creativity and skills lol. You never did get that full-size LFE neither and show the wife who's the boss.
Regards getting more output with software I don't know sorry. If the sound-card pre-amp and windows is at max output then you could possibly purchase a small mixer with say 6-8 channels to cover all your units.
Edit
Removed* solution found below
Get what your saying about the seat and it being a metal bucket basically so the effects should be direct but curious why then you want more volume especially with your good wife already complaining lol.
Easily spent over 100 hrs looking/monitoring effects in Assetto Corsa over the summer and getting a better grasp (finally) from actual experience using it. More to do but again the lack of others seemingly seeking to get the most out of it makes me believe most people are happy to settle with autotune or fairly basic profiles. Again my flaws in complicating things, me being an oddball, as things seem fine for most folk as they are.
Anyways thought by now you could have had some better isolation/sound deadening solutions to keep the wife happy. Especially a man with your creativity and skills lol. You never did get that full-size LFE neither and show the wife who's the boss.
Regards getting more output with software I don't know sorry. If the sound-card pre-amp and windows is at max output then you could possibly purchase a small mixer with say 6-8 channels to cover all your units.
Edit
Removed* solution found below
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Hi Mr Latte
Just finishing a new build of the Heusinkveld Engineering GT-Rig and going to use SimVibe/buttkickers for the first time.
Have read myself into circles... so thought I would search out to the experts and ask for help.
Ideally I am trying to get a reasonably high performing setup to avoid multiple amps/sound cards/transducers so are thinking that the following might work:
SimVibe: extensions mode
Seat: Buttkicker Advance
Pedals: Buttkicker Mini
Amp: iNuke 1000DSP or Emotiva
Money not really an issue, am more concerned about a very good experience that is as simple as possible (hence not going chassis mode with 4 transducers).
My questions are:
1. Is a good extensions setup giving up much vs a good chassis setup?
2. Are off the shelf cables for the iNuke available for both the sound card and buttkicker ends? (have never seen/used these neutriks before?)
3. Given money is not an issue, but performance and simplicity are, is there anything you would suggest changing in the above setup? Perhaps Emotiva 5 channel amp for future expansion without adding amps (chassis + seat?)
Thanks.. and great thread
Matt
Kiwi living in the US
Just finishing a new build of the Heusinkveld Engineering GT-Rig and going to use SimVibe/buttkickers for the first time.
Have read myself into circles... so thought I would search out to the experts and ask for help.
Ideally I am trying to get a reasonably high performing setup to avoid multiple amps/sound cards/transducers so are thinking that the following might work:
SimVibe: extensions mode
Seat: Buttkicker Advance
Pedals: Buttkicker Mini
Amp: iNuke 1000DSP or Emotiva
Money not really an issue, am more concerned about a very good experience that is as simple as possible (hence not going chassis mode with 4 transducers).
My questions are:
1. Is a good extensions setup giving up much vs a good chassis setup?
2. Are off the shelf cables for the iNuke available for both the sound card and buttkicker ends? (have never seen/used these neutriks before?)
3. Given money is not an issue, but performance and simplicity are, is there anything you would suggest changing in the above setup? Perhaps Emotiva 5 channel amp for future expansion without adding amps (chassis + seat?)
Thanks.. and great thread
Matt
Kiwi living in the US
- 1,166
- The Netherlands
- HoiHman
- HoiHman
My request was related to a low output volume problem to the rear speakers i had in the chassismode. Today i managed to fix that by switching chassis soundcard from onboard to a PCI-E X-fi. Now my amp runs at half power and is still powerfull enough to run the 4 mini LFE's
I usually start with autotune too and start fine tuning from there. In general my experience with tactile : Less is more (effects per channel). I do have an experiment planned with an alternative mount for the mini LFE's to the GS4
Anyways thought by now you could have had some better isolation/sound deadening solutions to keep the wife happy. Especially a man with your creativity and skills lol. You never did get that full-size LFE neither and show the wife who's the boss.
I already have sound isolation panels which cover the door, but the wife is very sensative with noises.
Lately though she doesn't complain about the tactile anymore..........The fans from the windsimulator make A LOT more noise.
Sorry mate, i only race in VR with sound comming from headphones in the rift (USB audio). Besides thats i'm now currently using my audio soundcard for the simvibe chassismode. VR is a game changer, you should really try it if you get the chance.
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Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
@matt33w
I think it really depends on what you want to get out of it or expect to get out of it.
For you, such may come down to quality over quantity and keep things simple. So yes extensions will do this with much less hassle and much less stuff to configure but what might you loose if not going with 4xChassis channels?
More the merrier, Really?
Can a cockpit with say 4x Mini LFE offer the better immersion experience than a cockpit with higher end quality tactile/shakers but using only 2 Extension Mode channels?
That I thought, was a good question....
Here's my attempt to cover it but first some info on the units themselves.
Which Units?
As for the BK Advance, the full-size LFE is easily 3-4 times more powerful but it will deliver a full body presence other models just can't manage. My own personal feelings are that for under 50Hz this is the unit to incorporate if you are serious about quality. Few have done similar but in my opinion, a single unit can't fully handle everything in Simvibe with so much going on and covering all frequencies without compromise.
My own recommendation is to use a secondary transducer (not another kicker) to work with the LFE unit. This reduces the workload on the LFE and helps it maintain its composure with only effects using say 50-HZ. So all the best strongest baddass bass basically. The secondary unit is focused for fast detailed response with say it utilising all the frequencies you'd generally be using eg, 20-100+ Hz. A transducer can operate faster than a kicker so it may help produce more detail. Kickers are exactly that, better for punch effect or low-end rumbles. This could help you get a bit more detailing from kerbs or indeed engine revs.
The issue here is many of these mid-priced models like Aura Pro/ADX are reported to commonly feel best from around 40Hz upwards. If you also want a transducer to work down into the stronger low 20HZ then something like a Clark Synthesis 329 GOLD is needed to get nice strong sensation from around 20Hz. Similar say to a BK advance in performance but they are not by any means cheap and these also produce audible sound. Again a feature I think adds to the immersion but some may not want.
See this ongoing thread as an example for a user wanting a good quality experience and seeking to utilise a 2.1 configuration to keep things simple. I hope to get his feedback more in future.
------------------------------------------------
Details to Consider
You would have to consider what benefits Chassis Mode (CM) has over Extensions Mode (EM) and how much they matter to you.
My experience is that many effects operate more like a "Mono" basis emitting similarly over the CM. They are indeed, dynamic in operation, so are not fully identical and constantly changing. What you feel however is very much similar thing in all 4 units. From my own research, I only found "Suspension Effects" to be properly directional between 2 channels at a time. Now I am not finished with my own research (just taking a break) but I think it is fair to say CM may not hold as many advantages over EM as I once or others may have assumed.
From memory with the work, @RW65 showed. I believe only one effect is not supported in EM which is available in CM. This is "Suspension Bump Surges". It seems to be different, IIRC these can operate via the steering wheel input. If you turn the wheel constantly left/right you will get the left/right tactile responding. So I can only assume or speculate with not fully conclusive tests, that in the way this effect operates it may require 2 channels and this perhaps is why it is not available in EM.
So as a brief overview you will loose directionality for on/off track/grass including rumble strips. Any directional presence L/R presented in suspension effects and also the suspension bump surges responding to the steering wheel as described above. I really enjoy having the sensation of feeling for example, two left wheels on the kerbs, but feel them on my left side as well. Some people are happy to have the effect and to feel it with strong intensity but not necessarily require it originating from that actual left position of the cockpit, be it in seat or pedals.
If your aim is, not so much acquire directionally but good strong effects in a mono presentation then yes EM can be used very effectively.
Hope its some help...
I think it really depends on what you want to get out of it or expect to get out of it.
For you, such may come down to quality over quantity and keep things simple. So yes extensions will do this with much less hassle and much less stuff to configure but what might you loose if not going with 4xChassis channels?
More the merrier, Really?
Can a cockpit with say 4x Mini LFE offer the better immersion experience than a cockpit with higher end quality tactile/shakers but using only 2 Extension Mode channels?
That I thought, was a good question....
Here's my attempt to cover it but first some info on the units themselves.
Which Units?
As for the BK Advance, the full-size LFE is easily 3-4 times more powerful but it will deliver a full body presence other models just can't manage. My own personal feelings are that for under 50Hz this is the unit to incorporate if you are serious about quality. Few have done similar but in my opinion, a single unit can't fully handle everything in Simvibe with so much going on and covering all frequencies without compromise.
My own recommendation is to use a secondary transducer (not another kicker) to work with the LFE unit. This reduces the workload on the LFE and helps it maintain its composure with only effects using say 50-HZ. So all the best strongest baddass bass basically. The secondary unit is focused for fast detailed response with say it utilising all the frequencies you'd generally be using eg, 20-100+ Hz. A transducer can operate faster than a kicker so it may help produce more detail. Kickers are exactly that, better for punch effect or low-end rumbles. This could help you get a bit more detailing from kerbs or indeed engine revs.
The issue here is many of these mid-priced models like Aura Pro/ADX are reported to commonly feel best from around 40Hz upwards. If you also want a transducer to work down into the stronger low 20HZ then something like a Clark Synthesis 329 GOLD is needed to get nice strong sensation from around 20Hz. Similar say to a BK advance in performance but they are not by any means cheap and these also produce audible sound. Again a feature I think adds to the immersion but some may not want.
See this ongoing thread as an example for a user wanting a good quality experience and seeking to utilise a 2.1 configuration to keep things simple. I hope to get his feedback more in future.
------------------------------------------------
Details to Consider
You would have to consider what benefits Chassis Mode (CM) has over Extensions Mode (EM) and how much they matter to you.
My experience is that many effects operate more like a "Mono" basis emitting similarly over the CM. They are indeed, dynamic in operation, so are not fully identical and constantly changing. What you feel however is very much similar thing in all 4 units. From my own research, I only found "Suspension Effects" to be properly directional between 2 channels at a time. Now I am not finished with my own research (just taking a break) but I think it is fair to say CM may not hold as many advantages over EM as I once or others may have assumed.
From memory with the work, @RW65 showed. I believe only one effect is not supported in EM which is available in CM. This is "Suspension Bump Surges". It seems to be different, IIRC these can operate via the steering wheel input. If you turn the wheel constantly left/right you will get the left/right tactile responding. So I can only assume or speculate with not fully conclusive tests, that in the way this effect operates it may require 2 channels and this perhaps is why it is not available in EM.
So as a brief overview you will loose directionality for on/off track/grass including rumble strips. Any directional presence L/R presented in suspension effects and also the suspension bump surges responding to the steering wheel as described above. I really enjoy having the sensation of feeling for example, two left wheels on the kerbs, but feel them on my left side as well. Some people are happy to have the effect and to feel it with strong intensity but not necessarily require it originating from that actual left position of the cockpit, be it in seat or pedals.
If your aim is, not so much acquire directionally but good strong effects in a mono presentation then yes EM can be used very effectively.
Hope its some help...
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Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
Good on all the other stuff, you never stated it was only the rear channels to indicate a possible card issue with rears, lol. As for not trying the test, well thank's.
Grrrrrrr, doesnt your CV1 have a 3.5mm out for headphones, you can easily extend this for two via a 3.5mm Y adapter even if it reduces the signal output. Your loss if you don't give it a try and do so by keeping the Simvibe engines in the CM. I feel it pointless sharing such as nobody's bothered anyways but I did want others feedback on it...
I may get a CV1 when 2nd hand value falls, aint got the income dude to splash out. It took me most of the year just to get a decent PC again and trade in consoles etc to even do so.
Your sim hairdryers might be of some use for the wife though.
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- 1,166
- The Netherlands
- HoiHman
- HoiHman
Sorry mate
but i drive a lot of different cars and switch a lot between AC, PCARS, DIRT RALLY and Iracing, audio tactile just isn't worth the extra hassle of additional cables, switches and adjustments.
The corvette does have very good "tactile audio" though, so i do get your point.
but i drive a lot of different cars and switch a lot between AC, PCARS, DIRT RALLY and Iracing, audio tactile just isn't worth the extra hassle of additional cables, switches and adjustments.
The corvette does have very good "tactile audio" though, so i do get your point.
Mr Latte
Thank you very much for the very detailed response!
If I am clear on what you are suggesting, the following would make for a better experience than what I originally proposed:
Simvibe: EM mode
Seat:
Buttkicker LFE (full size) low frequency
Transducer for high frequency
Pedals: Buttkicker mini or transducer
Amp: Emotiva 5 channel
2 channels bridged to power LFE
1 channel for seat transducer
1 channel for pedals transducer
1 channel for future shifter transducer
Questions regarding the combo LFE+transducer on the seat:
1. Would the LFE and smaller transducer need to be mounted on seperate plates to avoid vibrations bleeding into one another?
2. Would they each be driven by the same sound card output: y-cable from the sound card to 2 inputs on the amp?
3. I assume I would need an amp that can support a crossover frequency to split frequency to LFE vs transducer?
4. Sound is a problem for me so can you recommend a quiet transducer for the high frequencies on the seat?
5. Pedals: buttkicker mini or transducer to match the seat?
Thanks again... love this stuff!
matt33w
Thank you very much for the very detailed response!
If I am clear on what you are suggesting, the following would make for a better experience than what I originally proposed:
Simvibe: EM mode
Seat:
Buttkicker LFE (full size) low frequency
Transducer for high frequency
Pedals: Buttkicker mini or transducer
Amp: Emotiva 5 channel
2 channels bridged to power LFE
1 channel for seat transducer
1 channel for pedals transducer
1 channel for future shifter transducer
Questions regarding the combo LFE+transducer on the seat:
1. Would the LFE and smaller transducer need to be mounted on seperate plates to avoid vibrations bleeding into one another?
2. Would they each be driven by the same sound card output: y-cable from the sound card to 2 inputs on the amp?
3. I assume I would need an amp that can support a crossover frequency to split frequency to LFE vs transducer?
4. Sound is a problem for me so can you recommend a quiet transducer for the high frequencies on the seat?
5. Pedals: buttkicker mini or transducer to match the seat?
Thanks again... love this stuff!
matt33w
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
I doubt the Emotiva would power the LFE fullsize and other units.
It needs 300w just to begin to move the piston due to its weight. They work pretty good with around 700 watts or more, even up to their max 1500watts each is possible. You may need good isolation for your build especially if you are not on concrete flooring but wooden floor etc. The noise from vibrations can be loud and very strong.
I would recommend an inuke DSP 3000 or the DSP 6000 for the LFE. Either model could power 2x LFE although the 6000 has much more wattage. Having feet & body both feeling the low effects synchronised, compared to just one in the seat only will generate a more encapsulated impression. Both from bumps and engine based effects. You can tailor these in Simvibe to have different settings individually.
Simvibe still has no EQ control or crossover features in software as neither do traditional amps. So what, well Simvibe sends out all effects mixed together, combined per channel. It does not (currently) let you reduce from all those effects any specific frequencies or boost other frequencies. Your tactile/shakers work via frequencies, not effects, so you may like to boost or cut certain Hz to your taste and your installation. Additionally the tactile used may have its own characteristics in handling different Hz. It is useful if you want to try and sometimes gain a bit extra punch with specific Hz that works well or feel good on your units, or you can tone down a frequency that is annoying without having to reduce the general volume/output.
Thier are various advantages with the DSP models, I don't want to repeat them all here again.
The crossover feature enables you to set the LFE to only operate with the frequencies you determine regardless of what Simvibe is sending. It does nothing counter-active to Simvibe but enables you to get the most out of the LFE by restricting only low frequencies and removing mid frequencies that are annoying with such high wattages and power.
1. No as its working on the same channel in sync and in phase.
2. Yes you simply buy an AV distribution box with RCA that can create eg. 1-4 outputs for each input.
3. Answered above, part of the inuke DSP feature set.
4. I think your best option is the ADX
5. Recommend purchase 1x fullsize LFE and also test it in the pedals compared to an ADX. The Mini lfe can't handle high volumes with under 35Hz without bottoming. So with it, you don't really get to properly feel the best low Hz possible.
Only you can decide if twin LFE is a good option, test first to see.
You could buy 1x DSP1000 for the ADX, I personally don't think you will need one on the shifter as it may easily get the effects from the seat region. Testing really helps you determine, so I'd first buy the DSP 3000 or DSP 6000 model with 1x LFE and 2 ADX to let you do tests/comparisons and place units where you want them to help figure what you like.
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- 8
- United Kingdom
I recently purchased a pair of ADX transducers and an iNuke NU1000DSP amp to power them.
My initial thought was to place the shakers at the rear left/right positions and run them in chassis mode and then at a later date I could expand by getting another pair for the front.
I installed the shakers on the seat mounts thinking that any vibration will have to pass up those mounts to reach me so why not put them directly on the mounts so I did this:-
Used some pieces cut from a washing machine anti-vibration mat to try and have some isolation between the seat mounts and frame.
First I tested the frequencies using this site:-
http://onlinetonegenerator.com/
I found that the shakers had a sweet spot of about the high 30 Hz range where they were particularly strong and then trailing off to almost nothing around 60 Hz before picking up again around 80/90 Hz but nowhere near as strong as the high 30 Hz region. I took this into account when playing around with Simvibe.
With the stereo effects such as "Suspension Bumps" I could feel the separation depending on if the car went over left or right kerbs, but honestly, I didn't think it was that important that my left leg felt a bit more vibration than my right leg or vice versa. Also in the game I play the most, "Assetto Corsa", I found that "Suspension Texture" was a nicer effect and I think that effect is mono.
At the moment I'm trying extensions mode. I've placed one of the shakers in the pedal area and mounted the other directly to the seat. I'll see how that goes for a while before deciding on final placement but it's unlikely now that I'll purchase another two for chassis mode.
My initial thought was to place the shakers at the rear left/right positions and run them in chassis mode and then at a later date I could expand by getting another pair for the front.
I installed the shakers on the seat mounts thinking that any vibration will have to pass up those mounts to reach me so why not put them directly on the mounts so I did this:-
Used some pieces cut from a washing machine anti-vibration mat to try and have some isolation between the seat mounts and frame.
First I tested the frequencies using this site:-
http://onlinetonegenerator.com/
I found that the shakers had a sweet spot of about the high 30 Hz range where they were particularly strong and then trailing off to almost nothing around 60 Hz before picking up again around 80/90 Hz but nowhere near as strong as the high 30 Hz region. I took this into account when playing around with Simvibe.
With the stereo effects such as "Suspension Bumps" I could feel the separation depending on if the car went over left or right kerbs, but honestly, I didn't think it was that important that my left leg felt a bit more vibration than my right leg or vice versa. Also in the game I play the most, "Assetto Corsa", I found that "Suspension Texture" was a nicer effect and I think that effect is mono.
At the moment I'm trying extensions mode. I've placed one of the shakers in the pedal area and mounted the other directly to the seat. I'll see how that goes for a while before deciding on final placement but it's unlikely now that I'll purchase another two for chassis mode.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,011
- N Ireland
@IRobot Nice looking build, you have good direct contact going on with that. Thanks for sharing and welcome to GTP.
I'd really like to hear back from yourself or anyone, if you ever tried isolating your seat to try and prevent it allowing tactile to flow down into the main frame. Clarke Synthesis T100 or Buttkicker isolators would be ideal. Even a 2 tier set for above/below a steel plate for isolator/metal plate/isolator.
If you'd like also to try this and report back in that other tactile thread. 2 Other users thus far did it in reference to the ADX and its operation. You can also get a free demo of this tone generator with some additional features like setting different tones for L/R here if you want.
Edit:
Suspension Texture in AC can operate in stereo, err but thats not to say it always does.
Not investigated it enough with all its possible settings yet.
Good point on directional effects, maybe units with more power make it more enjoyable but I agree many people will not be that caring.
@Soulfresh_ACV
@HoiHman
My testing with combining both and comparing audio-tactile has highlighted several good feeling effects, not just the "Corvette" or other cars engines. I find it amusing you stating its not worthwhile but not willing to give it a go, (hehe). My rig ideas are different to other peoples as I use mine to enjoy all types of games so "audio-tactile" for me is also used often anyways.
Few will bother, I get it but I am being thorough and finding some advantages by doing so. One main find is that rumble strips work good in Simvibe but the green areas beside them don't seem to do much. When combined with the audio-tactile it really highlights these green sections and what's neat is they have their own unique feel so the overall sensation is much better, for me anyways.
Another fine example is the Nurburgring GP circuit, 2nd corner, big metal rain drains, which again only come alive with audio-tactile as certain parts of track have no "physics data".
For THIS Comparison Example from AC:
Top Meter Overlays are all main effects for chassis/suspension via Simvibe front suspension (no engine etc)
Bottom Meter Overlays are audio-tactile effects, (note only surfaces are active in the game for this test)
The big long horizontal meters represent activity for the last 4 seconds as these scroll right-left. The Peak meters show the strength.
1st Image
Shows how inactive audio is on main tarmac going down a main straight. Simvibe is rather constant with varying bumps.
2nd Image
Highlights kerb action, both active here but audio clearly has on/off detailing of the drrr drrr drrr.
3rd Image
Highlights track regions/surfaces that Simvibe does not do much or anything with but audio it does.
Early Testing Summary
These are a nice addition I feel worth at least trying and NOT highlighted anywhere else by others to my knowledge. This is before even looking into engines when combining both. Yet of course, everyone to their own wants or preferences is understandable. I will always seek to tinker and investigate as thats what I do.
I bring it to peoples attention is all as have seen some people moan about certain surfaces doing nothing in other threads/forums in the past, here is a solution.
I'd really like to hear back from yourself or anyone, if you ever tried isolating your seat to try and prevent it allowing tactile to flow down into the main frame. Clarke Synthesis T100 or Buttkicker isolators would be ideal. Even a 2 tier set for above/below a steel plate for isolator/metal plate/isolator.
If you'd like also to try this and report back in that other tactile thread. 2 Other users thus far did it in reference to the ADX and its operation. You can also get a free demo of this tone generator with some additional features like setting different tones for L/R here if you want.
Edit:
Suspension Texture in AC can operate in stereo, err but thats not to say it always does.
Not investigated it enough with all its possible settings yet.
Good point on directional effects, maybe units with more power make it more enjoyable but I agree many people will not be that caring.
@Soulfresh_ACV
@HoiHman
My testing with combining both and comparing audio-tactile has highlighted several good feeling effects, not just the "Corvette" or other cars engines. I find it amusing you stating its not worthwhile but not willing to give it a go, (hehe). My rig ideas are different to other peoples as I use mine to enjoy all types of games so "audio-tactile" for me is also used often anyways.
Few will bother, I get it but I am being thorough and finding some advantages by doing so. One main find is that rumble strips work good in Simvibe but the green areas beside them don't seem to do much. When combined with the audio-tactile it really highlights these green sections and what's neat is they have their own unique feel so the overall sensation is much better, for me anyways.
Another fine example is the Nurburgring GP circuit, 2nd corner, big metal rain drains, which again only come alive with audio-tactile as certain parts of track have no "physics data".
For THIS Comparison Example from AC:
Top Meter Overlays are all main effects for chassis/suspension via Simvibe front suspension (no engine etc)
Bottom Meter Overlays are audio-tactile effects, (note only surfaces are active in the game for this test)
The big long horizontal meters represent activity for the last 4 seconds as these scroll right-left. The Peak meters show the strength.
1st Image
Shows how inactive audio is on main tarmac going down a main straight. Simvibe is rather constant with varying bumps.
2nd Image
Highlights kerb action, both active here but audio clearly has on/off detailing of the drrr drrr drrr.
3rd Image
Highlights track regions/surfaces that Simvibe does not do much or anything with but audio it does.
Early Testing Summary
These are a nice addition I feel worth at least trying and NOT highlighted anywhere else by others to my knowledge. This is before even looking into engines when combining both. Yet of course, everyone to their own wants or preferences is understandable. I will always seek to tinker and investigate as thats what I do.
I bring it to peoples attention is all as have seen some people moan about certain surfaces doing nothing in other threads/forums in the past, here is a solution.
Last edited:
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- HoiHman
- HoiHman
That's great stuff Rodney 👍
You're tactile solution looks much better, but..... adding an extra cable to the rift is not an option.
It's not a matter of not bothering to try it out, but rather being limited with the current VR limitation. Using the HMD as source for audio tactile would mean that changing the volume of headset also changes the volume of the tactile audio.
I also have CrewChief installed which is a digital race engineer that talks to me during races, which would also transfer to the tactile audio
Racing without VR or VR headphones is not an option either, because that is definately rated above having better tactile than i have right now.
I have a hardware related question for you, since you also took the mini lfe's appart.
What's your view on modding the BK mini LFE? I'm thinking of two possible mods:
Reducing bottoming out: Adding spacers or rings between the center part and top & bottom caps, which gives the piston more space and reduces the changes of it bottoming out
Reducing noise (for rpm only): Increasing (drilling out) the holes on the top and bottom caps to reduce the produced noise from the rpm effects caused by airmovements. Perhaps even removing them completely
I remember you did a noise comparison with the mini LFE & Mini LFE SE
You're tactile solution looks much better, but..... adding an extra cable to the rift is not an option.
It's not a matter of not bothering to try it out, but rather being limited with the current VR limitation. Using the HMD as source for audio tactile would mean that changing the volume of headset also changes the volume of the tactile audio.
I also have CrewChief installed which is a digital race engineer that talks to me during races, which would also transfer to the tactile audio
Racing without VR or VR headphones is not an option either, because that is definately rated above having better tactile than i have right now.
I have a hardware related question for you, since you also took the mini lfe's appart.
What's your view on modding the BK mini LFE? I'm thinking of two possible mods:
Reducing bottoming out: Adding spacers or rings between the center part and top & bottom caps, which gives the piston more space and reduces the changes of it bottoming out
Reducing noise (for rpm only): Increasing (drilling out) the holes on the top and bottom caps to reduce the produced noise from the rpm effects caused by airmovements. Perhaps even removing them completely
I remember you did a noise comparison with the mini LFE & Mini LFE SE
Mr Latte
Premium
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- N Ireland
I understand what your saying and to be fair "audio tactile" has its own issues not to mention it can vary in games.
Assetto Corsa at least allows good control of the various effects and I have not really had time to check out this combined approach with other titles. I think I will mainly though be playing Assetto Corsa regards sims.
--------------------
The Mini LFE SE
I do remember recommending tests or a group of people tackling the issue, don't recall anybody really testing or trying different rubber compounds, foams or even a small gas piston (car boot type) to reduce the piston impact. Yet obviously still not being detrimental to its performance or overheating. I cant say I have ever seen anyone put much effort into it or try to determine any "settings" solution to reduce it.
From the time I criticised the "re-design" (YAY) opening a can of worms in reference to such only being the inclusion of "acoustic foam". Not long after that I got the full-size units and sold or didn't use the smaller ones I had.
Fact or Myth?
I do think, there is a connection with below 35Hz being a factor to the bottoming from testing waay back then. All it would take would be someone here (we have several) with an inuke DSP to set up and compare saved profiles in the inuke DSP with settings using different crossover values.
Control What Hz It Gets
A 20Hz-100HZ / B 35Hz-100Hz / C 50Hz-100Hz using the same Simvibe settings and volume, does it reduce the bottoming? The alternative is to also restrict the top Hz as well / D 35Hz-90Hz and / E 20Hz-80Hz. How does these restricting the Hz alter the vertical motion of the piston and do any of these values make a difference?
If tests were done to help determine when/how it happens then it wouldn't be hard in Simvibe to ensure the Tones used kept within those limits. You could I suppose create a profile in Simvibe reduce the LOW/HIGH tone values and try that but keep volumes and other settings untouched.
I can't say it will make a difference but do feel someone here should attempt such.
As for noise this would also alter with the frequencies used but don't think you can do that much to silence them . Using acoustic materials on the outside may help but this may cause heat issues. Please be sure to share anything if you do future tests attempts at it.
Assetto Corsa at least allows good control of the various effects and I have not really had time to check out this combined approach with other titles. I think I will mainly though be playing Assetto Corsa regards sims.
--------------------
The Mini LFE SE
I do remember recommending tests or a group of people tackling the issue, don't recall anybody really testing or trying different rubber compounds, foams or even a small gas piston (car boot type) to reduce the piston impact. Yet obviously still not being detrimental to its performance or overheating. I cant say I have ever seen anyone put much effort into it or try to determine any "settings" solution to reduce it.
From the time I criticised the "re-design" (YAY) opening a can of worms in reference to such only being the inclusion of "acoustic foam". Not long after that I got the full-size units and sold or didn't use the smaller ones I had.
Fact or Myth?
I do think, there is a connection with below 35Hz being a factor to the bottoming from testing waay back then. All it would take would be someone here (we have several) with an inuke DSP to set up and compare saved profiles in the inuke DSP with settings using different crossover values.
Control What Hz It Gets
A 20Hz-100HZ / B 35Hz-100Hz / C 50Hz-100Hz using the same Simvibe settings and volume, does it reduce the bottoming? The alternative is to also restrict the top Hz as well / D 35Hz-90Hz and / E 20Hz-80Hz. How does these restricting the Hz alter the vertical motion of the piston and do any of these values make a difference?
If tests were done to help determine when/how it happens then it wouldn't be hard in Simvibe to ensure the Tones used kept within those limits. You could I suppose create a profile in Simvibe reduce the LOW/HIGH tone values and try that but keep volumes and other settings untouched.
I can't say it will make a difference but do feel someone here should attempt such.
As for noise this would also alter with the frequencies used but don't think you can do that much to silence them . Using acoustic materials on the outside may help but this may cause heat issues. Please be sure to share anything if you do future tests attempts at it.
Last edited:
Just when I thought I was getting it... you have lost me! I'm not sure I understand how a single 2 channel amp (iNuke 3000DSP) would support the following:
Seat: LFE + ADX (DSP managed crossover)
Pedals: ADX (delivery full frequency range)
I would have guessed that I would either need to:
1. Match the seat and pedals each having LFE + ADX (4 shakers total). Then power the 2xLFE with one amp channel and the 2xADX with the second channel (since the crossover/frequency would need to match). The tradeoff being no ability to lessen the pedals volume relative to the seat, and simplicity lost somewhat with 4 shakers.
or
2. Use an amp with 3+ channels (or 2 amps) to have the pedal ADX cover the fuller frequency range while still allowing the seat LFE+ADX to crossover.
Unless I simply have it wrong in the above (very likely).. how much audible sound do the Clarks make? I use headphones and would prefer little/no audible sound.. but a small amount might be ok if it meant I could simply use a single higher quality transducer on the seat and pedals reducing the complexity?
Thanks again
matt33w
Mr Latte
Premium
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- N Ireland
Hi matt3w
Sorry for the confusion in the way I worded it. I was trying to recommend buying first just one LFE and ADX and use one amp to test (a) seat and then (b) pedal sections at different times. To test with both units operating or just either one before committing to the price of a secondary LFE.
If wanting the "Dual Role" config in both seat & pedals yes you need, either a DSP3000 or DSP6000 for the 2x LFE
and a DSP1000 for the 2x ADX.
The DSP6000 has more watts (they don't list RMS) and will handle twin LFE better but it is a bigger/deeper unit with twin rear fans so is louder than the DSP3000. These amps noise-wise are a bit like a GPU with high-ish fan speeds.
In your situation with headphones a preference, I'd forget about the TST models.
Parts Express Offer a 45 day return according to their website if you were to buy both a DSP 3000/6000 to compare and then return one for the 1000 model to power the ADX.
If you went with just 1xLFE in seat then you could run it with a DSP3000 in bridge mode. Or you could power it to run a shifter based ADX unit and the LFE. Really the biggest decision is deciding 1x LFE or 2 and this is why I think you should test both seat and pedal sections.
Hope this is a bit clearer now.
You never confirmed your flooring or possible required isolation?
Sorry for the confusion in the way I worded it. I was trying to recommend buying first just one LFE and ADX and use one amp to test (a) seat and then (b) pedal sections at different times. To test with both units operating or just either one before committing to the price of a secondary LFE.
If wanting the "Dual Role" config in both seat & pedals yes you need, either a DSP3000 or DSP6000 for the 2x LFE
and a DSP1000 for the 2x ADX.
The DSP6000 has more watts (they don't list RMS) and will handle twin LFE better but it is a bigger/deeper unit with twin rear fans so is louder than the DSP3000. These amps noise-wise are a bit like a GPU with high-ish fan speeds.
In your situation with headphones a preference, I'd forget about the TST models.
Parts Express Offer a 45 day return according to their website if you were to buy both a DSP 3000/6000 to compare and then return one for the 1000 model to power the ADX.
If you went with just 1xLFE in seat then you could run it with a DSP3000 in bridge mode. Or you could power it to run a shifter based ADX unit and the LFE. Really the biggest decision is deciding 1x LFE or 2 and this is why I think you should test both seat and pedal sections.
Hope this is a bit clearer now.
You never confirmed your flooring or possible required isolation?
Last edited:
Isolation is definitely important.. wooden floor and apartment neighbors living below!! (and sleeping wife in our adjacent bedroom!)
I have attached a couple of photos that show my current build. I have a few isolation options, but have never used a Buttkicker or transducer so have no idea how much isolation is needed.
My noise isolation options:
1. Heavy duty dense rubber gym mat under the rig (in place now). Really heavy and 1" thick.
2. The entire rig sits on 4 feet. I have some rubber/cork pads to put under the feet (see photo) and can also change the feet for those rubber isolation style feet, though they would be carrying a lot of weight.
3. See photo of the seat mount. I am thinking of inserting a layer of rubber between the seat mounts and the rig where the 2 steel plates meet (though the bolt through the middle may render that useless?). Could possibly do the same with the pedal plate.
Am I right to assume the LFE can be dialed down to provide less vibration or does its size mean the minimum is still quite strong?
If they are very punchy.. perhaps the advance is a better play?
Thinking about all your advice (which has been incredible btw) it almost feels like I should go with a matching ADX+either LFE or Advance on both the seat and pedals. Then I can power it all with a single 2 channel 6000DSP (2 x BK on one channel for low frequency, 2xADX on the other for high freq).
Here are the photos:
matt33w
I have attached a couple of photos that show my current build. I have a few isolation options, but have never used a Buttkicker or transducer so have no idea how much isolation is needed.
My noise isolation options:
1. Heavy duty dense rubber gym mat under the rig (in place now). Really heavy and 1" thick.
2. The entire rig sits on 4 feet. I have some rubber/cork pads to put under the feet (see photo) and can also change the feet for those rubber isolation style feet, though they would be carrying a lot of weight.
3. See photo of the seat mount. I am thinking of inserting a layer of rubber between the seat mounts and the rig where the 2 steel plates meet (though the bolt through the middle may render that useless?). Could possibly do the same with the pedal plate.
Am I right to assume the LFE can be dialed down to provide less vibration or does its size mean the minimum is still quite strong?
If they are very punchy.. perhaps the advance is a better play?
Thinking about all your advice (which has been incredible btw) it almost feels like I should go with a matching ADX+either LFE or Advance on both the seat and pedals. Then I can power it all with a single 2 channel 6000DSP (2 x BK on one channel for low frequency, 2xADX on the other for high freq).
Here are the photos:
matt33w
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- HoiHman
- HoiHman
@matt33 with a wooden floor and neighbors below i fear that the LFE might be too strong. Because of the bigger piston size the minimum vibration is still quite strong.
@Mr Latte at least in my case : bottoming out is not a hz related issue but volume related when different effects are combined. For example: In chassismode i have roadbumps and speed based white noise enabled.
I have the volume set that each effect when applied solo does not cause any bottoming out, however when i run at high speed with both effects enabled i do get some bottoming out because the 2 effect combined put out a bit too much volume occaisionally.
@Mr Latte at least in my case : bottoming out is not a hz related issue but volume related when different effects are combined. For example: In chassismode i have roadbumps and speed based white noise enabled.
I have the volume set that each effect when applied solo does not cause any bottoming out, however when i run at high speed with both effects enabled i do get some bottoming out because the 2 effect combined put out a bit too much volume occaisionally.
Mr Latte
Premium
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- N Ireland
@matt33w nice sir, yes looks sweet. Think you have a major problem on your hands and need to decide what to do. The vibrations from these units can be very strong. I have a similar issue at home with my current test rig, vibrations can travel easily downstairs espically directly below if wooden beams/floor are involved .
I can go into more detail to what I believe is required but have not implemented what I want to do yet even on my own rig. Although do know however that a multilayer isolation solution does reduce what vibrations can escape greatly but I can tell you now a single isolator doesnt stand a chance of maintaining these levels of vibration energy. Not even these as I own them.
Their are industrial options for materials or isolators used in manufacturing or with machinery. Also sound deadening materials too. Really what I think is necessary is have a multi-tier system that comprises of building a base platform and it act as a sink/trap to hold the vibrations within itself. Possibly using top/bottom isolated wooden MDF board and then this itself isolated from the floor. This whole platform idea could end up being approx 5" high.
Example of my own ideas:
I can go into more detail to what I believe is required but have not implemented what I want to do yet even on my own rig. Although do know however that a multilayer isolation solution does reduce what vibrations can escape greatly but I can tell you now a single isolator doesnt stand a chance of maintaining these levels of vibration energy. Not even these as I own them.
Their are industrial options for materials or isolators used in manufacturing or with machinery. Also sound deadening materials too. Really what I think is necessary is have a multi-tier system that comprises of building a base platform and it act as a sink/trap to hold the vibrations within itself. Possibly using top/bottom isolated wooden MDF board and then this itself isolated from the floor. This whole platform idea could end up being approx 5" high.
Example of my own ideas:
- Isolator for seat and pedal sections
- Isolator for under main chassis
- Antivibration rubber material layer top of MDF
- MDF board/platform the size of cockpit length/width
- Antivibration rubber material layer under MDF
- Isolator
- Antivibe matt / rubber floor tiles or rubber wheel/castors (if needing portable)
Last edited:
Mr Latte
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Apologies taking a while to get back, this could be interesting...
First thing to take into account is the amplifier powering the units and the wattage being used.
The below 35Hz issue is a tried and tested factor with high volumes/power. I helped a guy a little several years ago. I found his thread in reference to discussions and videos from him and others, you may of seen before. See post 55 but look through the thread.
I do believe you are also right in that if the unit has a lot to do, when the volume is increased is indeed also a factor. Yet I query if you ran "Roadbumps" only, set them to operate at 10-35Hz with max simvibe volume and sending the unit say 150 watts (still well below its power rating). Would it bottom, you could use the Simvibe clip indicator function as well. I believe the wattage will be a factor and what those guys experienced with home cinema applications.
I see several factors to consider:
- Number of effects used
- Volume setting for each effect
- Tone generation values used (in conjunction with all other effects)
- Type of effect (constant or situation based)
- Simvibe Output Mixer / Master Volume
Do you still only use the Advance for "impacts only", please give a breakdown.
Some obvious points but covered anyways...
"Whitenoise" is a constant effect that you will have kick in at a set speed and increase in Hz with it using probably the widest frequency ranges of any effects. Not sure if your using "Engine" on the CM as it is constant with a varied working range too. "Roadbumps" are another rather busy effect, they also are active with the steering wheel inputs for L/R.
Some effects actually operate from 0 Sensitivity (I think roadbumps is one) but if some are given high sensitivities and mixed with other constant effects then this could be a factor to the tactile being overdriven with so much to do. This then as you refer to making it more likely to also bottom out.
I still think its relevant as to what your lowest/highest Hz are regards how much the tactile has to work to generate the values between each with ALL the effects used on the channel. On top of that with potentially several "constant" effects operating together. Placing "windnoise" onto a EM would reduce the working load of course and lowering sensitivities for individual effects to reduce their activity another option to consider.
Lets take thought, if a bit of sponge foam can increase the response time and detaiing regards the movement of the piston in the SE versions then its relevant how much the piston has to move. The question is how does Hz or Volume determine how the piston operates in vertical movement and speed for lowest/highest Hz values required between all effects?
This in itself could be a good thread on its own experimenting too and regards the piston cap, perhaps a squash ball cut in half with maybe a centre hole drilled?
Just my thoughts friend...
Last edited:
- 1,166
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- HoiHman
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I just checked. This is for Dirt Rally
Speedbased white noise is set at 45
Roadbumps are at 50 (big) and 95 (small)
The Advance is used for vertical surges with a minimun treshold filter set at 827. This makes it kick in exactly right when landing from big jumps (really, really love this effect)
I can turn the overall volume or the specific volume of one effect down in the simvibe mixer to reduce/eliminate the bottoming out, but at cost of tactile performance.
I like your idea of modifying the BK, something to look into. I did do a test today with engine rpm with the topcap removed. Turned out that the mini LFE made more actually noise than with cap back on.
With the top cap removed: Bottoming out means the piston is flying through the air
(happened to me a couple of times)
Speedbased white noise is set at 45
Roadbumps are at 50 (big) and 95 (small)
The Advance is used for vertical surges with a minimun treshold filter set at 827. This makes it kick in exactly right when landing from big jumps (really, really love this effect)
I can turn the overall volume or the specific volume of one effect down in the simvibe mixer to reduce/eliminate the bottoming out, but at cost of tactile performance.
I like your idea of modifying the BK, something to look into. I did do a test today with engine rpm with the topcap removed. Turned out that the mini LFE made more actually noise than with cap back on.
With the top cap removed: Bottoming out means the piston is flying through the air
(happened to me a couple of times)
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