So what's new Physics wise?

  • Thread starter Thread starter JakeCourtney
  • 455 comments
  • 46,769 views
CoolColJ
Judging from my experience with the demo, and from what others say how it feels, with a wheel, we finally have that unsteadiness under heavy braking and weight transfer causing spins with trail braking, that has been sorely lacking in all GT games until now







See 1:04
Click to expand...


In GT5 prologue, go into quick tune, turn the ABS off. It hasn't been missing for a years bro
 
WesWelker83
the standard physics in GT5P & GTPSP are a lot like GT4. The pro physics in GTPSP are like GT3. The pro physics in GT5P are like GTPSP pro physics except more complex & accurate. The pro physics in GT5 take it even further & give you the best physics of any sim ever made. I've played iRacing, LFS, GTR Evo, rFactor, & they're awesome beyond belief but as far as pure driving physics GT5 is a lot closer to life. especially in the cars I've raced in game & in real life, there's just no denying it unless you're in denial like that inside sim racing anti console show on youtube
Click to expand...

Read this interview with Stefano Casillo, netKar Pro’s lead programmer, it has given a lot of hope to me:

Question: So how would you rate the competition on a ´realism´ scale?

I wouldn't know without reading their source code. Feeling wise.. I can jump from netKar PRO to iRacing without problems. rFactor ddoesn't give me that kind of immediate feeling but it might just only be the fact that I have DK-physics as part of my background as race simmer. I feel the car pretty well with Live For Speed too - very interesting AI code too! the way they learn. it's a fascinating piece of code! I think it must be the lionhead's heritage... (...)

Question: So when we talk about feeling of the car and about the 3 sims that seem the most connected (to me) Live For Speed, iRacing and and netKar PRO it all comes to tyres. Live For Speed is redoing theirs, iRacing is redoing theirs but if I talk to people, netKar PRO does not need to. What do you think?

Well, actually, I am redoing ours too. I am writing a Kunos Tyre Model.. which isn't based on any previously published approach to tyre modelling. For me, the magic word I try to achieve with my tyre models is "congruence".A tyre needs to behave in a predictable and realistic way in every condition. Real time simulators have the bad habit of putting the tyres into a lot of states that are not covered by standard tyre models literature, like spinning out, burning tyres, going backwards. All these things.. they are cool yes.. but they aren't that interesting for scientist.The typical tyre models available do a very good job of describing the tyre behaviour within some constraints,but they fail when the situation goes extreme.

Comment: There is an ongoing discussion about using fixed tables for the data or real time calculations (not a maths guy, sorry!), like ISI they say.

Personally I don't do that, but I see the advantage of doing it that way. My fear is that this is exactly why I feel disconnected in their sims. Sometimes people ask me what I did to make FF good in netKar PRO. I am clueless.. I think there is a fundamental difference in how FF is calculated in the group netKar PRO, iRacing, Live For Speed, VirtualGP3, even Gran Turismo Academy felt "netKar-ish" to me. I think my FF is, I don't know, 20 lines of code?
Click to expand...
 
WesWelker83
In GT5 prologue, go into quick tune, turn the ABS off. It hasn't been missing for a years bro
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with ABS. The physics in GT5 now have much better weight transfer. Brake and all the weight is shifted to the front wheels, if you turn at the same time, the rear end will move towards the front.

Wait till you play GT5 in pro physics, and you will see for yourself.
It's a bit like Enthusia in this regard
 
Personally I don't do that, but I see the advantage of doing it that way. My fear is that this is exactly why I feel disconnected in their sims. Sometimes people ask me what I did to make FF good in netKar PRO. I am clueless.. I think there is a fundamental difference in how FF is calculated in the group netKar PRO, iRacing, Live For Speed, VirtualGP3, even Gran Turismo Academy felt "netKar-ish" to me. I think my FF is, I don't know, 20 lines of code?
Click to expand...

You know what's funny? I've always said GT5's new physics engine feels a lot like Netkar Pro, and here the programmer even agrees with me :D

This certain solid and tight feeling
 
CoolColJ
You know what's funny? I've always said GT5's new physics engine feels a lot like Netkar Pro, and here the programmer even agrees with me :D

This certain solid and tight feeling
Click to expand...

Haha I've read that comment of yours on lfsforum.net 👍
 
Last edited:
Moeses
How close is GT5p to real life car physics?
Click to expand...

Its not that close. I dont really think any GT games are. When I drive my car, the way it moves, it feels alive. In GT the physics are a bit more stiff and lifeless, Ive felt that in every GT game.

I wont say overall is more realistic bc I dont really know, but the way the cars take turns in Forza does feel more realistic to me. I love the GT games but they feel weird to me.
 
Last edited:
cygnus_zero
Its not that close. I dont really think any GT games are. When I drive my car, the way it movies, it feels alive. In GT the physics are a bit more stiff and lifeless, Ive felt that in every GT game.

I wont say overall is more realistic bc I dont really know, but the way the cars take turns in that game does feel more realistic to me. I love the GT games but they feel weird to me.
Click to expand...


Man I would have to disagree with that attitude toward gt5. It definitely has the potential to be mind blowingly relaistic.

Heres the thing, so far I think no game so far compares very well to real life. The physcis in all previous GT games have been fun but not even close to being life like. GT5p did not changes this. Again the physics are just there and enough to get the game by but In other words they are rubbish as far as being realistic goes. Not even close.

I have felt every racing game I have ever tried so far was like this. Even forza and lfs, the were all fun but different in their own way and thus flawed.
The term sim is thrown around just to show at least the game makes an effort to mimmick life like physics, but Imo none were there.

When I tried the GT5 academy time trial, I was blown away at how awesomely real it all felt. I coudlnt get over it, and the demo is now gone and expired and I still cant get over it. To me theres every game released this far and then theres the gt5 academy I tried out.
If you were to compare them in the form of a graph other games would be a house maybe a building and gt5 time trial would be poking into outer space.

If the real game is anything like the academy TT, then we are looking at a VERY serious sim here, perhaps the best released to date. Previous GT games will only be comparably in terms of Graphics Sound and content, as far as physics are concerned GT5 will be entering a new realm compared to the old ones, and its unfair to judge 5 based on anything that came before it.
 
xSNAKEx
Man I would have to disagree with that attitude toward gt5. It definitely has the potential to be mind blowingly relaistic.

Heres the thing, so far I think no game so far compares very well to real life. The physcis in all previous GT games have been fun but not even close to being life like. GT5p did not changes this. Again the physics are just there and enough to get the game by but In other words they are rubbish as far as being realistic goes. Not even close.

I have felt every racing game I have ever tried so far was like this. Even forza and lfs, the were all fun but different in their own way and thus flawed.
The term sim is thrown around just to show at least the game makes an effort to mimmick life like physics, but Imo none were there.

When I tried the GT5 academy time trial, I was blown away at how awesomely real it all felt. I coudlnt get over it, and the demo is now gone and expired and I still cant get over it. To me theres every game released this far and then theres the gt5 academy I tried out.
If you were to compare them in the form of a graph other games would be a house maybe a building and gt5 time trial would be poking into outer space.

If the real game is anything like the academy TT, then we are looking at a VERY serious sim here, perhaps the best released to date. Previous GT games will only be comparably in terms of Graphics Sound and content, as far as physics are concerned GT5 will be entering a new realm compared to the old ones, and its unfair to judge 5 based on anything that came before it.
Click to expand...

I played the GT5 demo and it is better than the TT demo we had before.
 
I think the physics engine in games possibly have a lot to do with how the lead programmer or studio head like Kaz feel when driving cars and how they steer it, throttle it, brake it etc. Me personally, I'm not bothered about being the fastest from A-B and couldn't care less for beating other drivers. As long as I can beat the Ai, then fine. So,in that regard, how I like to drive reflects quite well with Forza's way of doing things. Perhaps I don't like GT4 so much because I'm less bothered with precision and more bothered with skirting around grip and balance without going too far.

I certainly think there's more to it with these sims than whether the physics are simply bad or good, because there's too much variance with what one group of people prefer to another group who like another game.
 
JDMKING13
I played the GT5 demo and it is better than the TT demo we had before.
Click to expand...

Good to hear. Did you notice what was different or just a general feel of imporvement?
Did they take away the excessive tyre screeching at low speed when turning? I felt the TT tyre screech was a bit much at low speed. curious to know what they changed though.

GT5 Sceptic
I certainly think there's more to it with these sims than whether the physics are simply bad or good, because there's too much variance with what one group of people prefer to another group who like another game.
Click to expand...

If the physics is good it doesnt matter what group of people preffer to do or not, as one physics engine will cover all these actitvities nicely, IF the physics engine is good.
For example offering a grip or drift physics selection before a race is an exmaple of bad physics. The cars setup and driving style should cover that within the same physics engine
 
xSNAKEx
Man I would have to disagree with that attitude toward gt5. It definitely has the potential to be mind blowingly relaistic.

Heres the thing, so far I think no game so far compares very well to real life. The physcis in all previous GT games have been fun but not even close to being life like. GT5p did not changes this. Again the physics are just there and enough to get the game by but In other words they are rubbish as far as being realistic goes. Not even close.

I have felt every racing game I have ever tried so far was like this. Even forza and lfs, the were all fun but different in their own way and thus flawed.
The term sim is thrown around just to show at least the game makes an effort to mimmick life like physics, but Imo none were there.

When I tried the GT5 academy time trial, I was blown away at how awesomely real it all felt. I coudlnt get over it, and the demo is now gone and expired and I still cant get over it. To me theres every game released this far and then theres the gt5 academy I tried out.
If you were to compare them in the form of a graph other games would be a house maybe a building and gt5 time trial would be poking into outer space.

If the real game is anything like the academy TT, then we are looking at a VERY serious sim here, perhaps the best released to date. Previous GT games will only be comparably in terms of Graphics Sound and content, as far as physics are concerned GT5 will be entering a new realm compared to the old ones, and its unfair to judge 5 based on anything that came before it.
Click to expand...

Have you played iRacing?
 
I don't like the tyre model in iRacing, and they are redoing it BTW. Netkar Pro, especially the Virtual Ferrari Academy thing by the same coder is the benchmark right now in physics and FFB feel IMO.

Try out the demo for Netkar pro, GT5 feels quite similar to that. Either with a pad or wheel. Netkar Pro plays quite well with a dual stick analog pad. And after trying Richards Burns Rally again, even the gravel physics of GT5 feels more connected than RBR...

 
I tried iRacing a few times at PAX this year and either their settings for maximum turning where set WAYY low and/or Laguna's first turn is far too short and tight. I wasn't impressed with it at all. I asked the rep why they don't just let me buy it for a one time fee since there is such limited cars and tracks. He said that that is how they make money. I replied, "So PD and EA sports don't make more money than you guys?"....no response 👎 I'm confident GT5 physics will be far better than GT5P and the TT Demo.

Jerome
 
hey CoolColJ, How old is that video??

Is iracing redoing their tyre model now? Or have they already implemented it??

Luca
 
JDMKING13
I played the GT5 demo and it is better than the TT demo we had before.
Click to expand...

Much, MUCH better.

There is a much more definite sense of feeling the grip of the tyres, the movement of the treadblocks, the bumps and ripplestrips on the road. On the whole, it is much more engaging than any previous GT game.

Roll on release day!
 
I’ve been going to the Best Buy in Manassas Va. almost every weekend since the demo came out. I’ve drove every car on every track and I must say it has gotten more and more fun to play. I know once I get my copy I’ll be spending hours on the wheel. Now my take on using the DS3 which I believe is the controller with the GT5 Demo it’s a bugger. You have to pay more attention to the line that you’re going to take pending on the speed you’re entering the turn at. On the braking I won’t be able to tell a big difference until I got to game Stop and get a used Play Station and play the older Specs. All in all though I see it’s a major improvement from the others most of all GT5P.
 
I had iRacing for 3 months. I was thinking about it, but since more fun GT5 will be out soon, I will not buy another month or so of iRacing. Its a good sim, but not the most fun. You just get handfull of cars, that rest you have to buy, and the tracks.. online is good, but if you are not racing in a league, there is always someone running people off the track on first turn. GT5 I bet will be 100 times more fun. 1000 cars for 60 bucks, over 100 tracks for 60 bucks, photomode, customizable cars, damage, online, B-spec, dynamic weather and day/night, list goes on and on, and its 60 bucks.. I bet GT5 will be best racing game ever, all for 60 bucks its a damn good deal over iRacing.
 
peter_vod69
Traction control was on in the demo I played. (Sydney Motor Show, FT86@Rome)
Click to expand...

Anyone play in bestbuy or gamestop to see if you can do a burnout?

Also it bothers me in GT5 while at stand still, while one wheel is on grass and other on pavement in FWD car, bot tires still spin when applied gas, most small engine FWD, the wheel on grass should spin.



Im sorry for double post..
 
peter_vod69
Much, MUCH better.

There is a much more definite sense of feeling the grip of the tyres, the movement of the treadblocks, the bumps and ripplestrips on the road. On the whole, it is much more engaging than any previous GT game.

Roll on release day!
Click to expand...

Hearing statements like this really do excite me, as sad as that may be. I thought GT5P has some pretty nice handling, but occasionally it did feel almost unfair how you could lose control so easily and yet (with a DFGT) there was a lot of information not being conveyed either through the wheel or through the visuals. I think graphically representing how the car handles is something we definitely need more of, and from what I've read GT5 is finally putting it all into place. Little things like camera shudder, or slight drifting of the camera angle to represent losing grip, combined with good FFB responses is key in getting the feeling across, not to mention of course good and realistic audio too. From comments like the above that I've read and other more detailed views of the GT5 Demos, I must say I'm confident GT5 really has taken great steps to improve in all of these areas, I can't wait to try it out cos GT5P is really starting to grate on me now, I want to save my next driving session for when I finally get GT5 in my PS3!

I was scared GT5 would end up just being a mass of content strapped onto the GT5P engine and graphics, so I'm very glad they really have upped their game and that GT5P really was just a Prologue to this game.
 
Putting it simply - GT5P is rubbish compared to GT5, if the demos are any indication. They are only comparable in visual style and quality. It's as if Kaz has finally figured out proper vehicle dynamics, steering feel and so on. I wouldn't be surprised if it is in part due to his recent racing experiences.
 

Similar threads

Riky_Sim
Realistic physics mod for WRC Generations [RELEASED]
Replies
2
Views
6K
MrCrynox
MrCrynox
ZEE
Another New Exclusive Lamborghini! Pebble Beach Reveal soon!
Replies
4
Views
1K
MisterWaffles
MisterWaffles
Igano
Mini review from a long time PD critic
Replies
12
Views
3K
pedrocor
pedrocor
gator of kana
Arguments about what's considered a Street Car has gotten very stupid
2
Replies
34
Views
3K
Famine
Famine
AuzKangaroo94
GT 7 Australia & New Zealand Racing Comp
Replies
11
Views
6K
AuzKangaroo94
AuzKangaroo94

Latest Posts

Back