The Grenfell Tower Fire

[TenEightyOne]

Reports from some former residents and residents' groups that power surges were "causing concern" in the block, there are allegations that some of these surges were causing domestic equipment to emit smoke. While such a scenario is unlikely to have exacerbated the spread of the fire such circumstances may be illustrative of the standards of construction/control in the refit. BBC.

 

[MUSC4EVER]

A bunch of victims were identified yesterday, some through dental records, identifying all of them is going to take a very long time...

 

[TenEightyOne]

The cladding was not fit for the specification. The supplier seemingly obfuscated this fact and failed to issue an appropriate product recall. BBC.

 

[Dotini]

The cladding was not fit for the specification. The supplier seemingly obfuscated this fact and failed to issue an appropriate product recall. BBC.

So is that a rarity, one freak happenstance, or is it a more widespread problem?

 

[TenEightyOne]

So is that a rarity, one freak happenstance, or is it a more widespread problem?

Many other buildings with the same/similar cladding were inspected as a matter of urgency in the days and weeks following the Grenfell disaster. A lot of cladding was removed as a result of those inspections... I guess it's to be hoped that all problem cladding has now been removed/replaced. From a systems point of view it's clear that stronger measures must be considered to ensure that certification is cross-checked more thoroughly.

 

[Liquid]

The cynic in me suspects that it was widespread before Grenfell and quietly replaced after Grenfell.

 

[TenEightyOne]

BBC's Panorama alleges that the cladding used on Grenfell Tower had never actually passed the fire safety test required for certification and use.

It's also claimed that the cladding and underpanels were never tested together for any fire-retardant capabilities.

BBC.

 

[Danoff]

BBC's Panorama alleges that the cladding used on Grenfell Tower had never actually passed the fire safety test required for certification and use.

It's also claimed that the cladding and underpanels were never tested together for any fire-retardant capabilities.

BBC.

I think this is all kinda what we suspected in the days after the incident. A cheaper material was substituted and labeled as having met the standards. Everyone down the line from that substitution signs off because it's labeled as being sufficient.

Somebody may be going to jail.

 

[Liquid]

Somebody may be going to jail.

I hope so, if these allegations are true. The entire book, shelf and library should be thrown at everyone responsible for allowing unsafe materials to be passed off as safe.

 

[Dennisch]

I can't help but think that those 72 dead people are just a statistic and apart from a company getting fined and a couple of people losing their job, nothing will happen .

 

[Dotini]

I can't help but think that those 72 dead people are just a statistic and apart from a company getting fined and a couple of people losing their job, nothing will happen .

And is not similar defective cladding yet still in place?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I can't help but think that those 72 dead people are just a statistic and apart from a company getting fined and a couple of people losing their job, nothing will happen .

The police investigation into charges of corporate manslaughter continues but can not be completed in law until the public inquiry is completed. If charges are proven then personal prison time for those "in the know" is almost a certainty.

And is not similar defective cladding yet still in place?

Supposedly not, the days and weeks following the tragedy saw a lot of similar cladding removed from buildings around the country. I'd hesitate to say "definitely not".

 

[Dennisch]

The police investigation into charges of corporate manslaughter continues but can not be completed in law until the public inquiry is completed. If charges are proven then personal prison time for those "in the know" is almost a certainty.

After seeing that 3rd world tragedy happen in a well regulated society, I would remain highly sceptical of any convictions.

 

[Danoff]

After seeing that 3rd world tragedy happen in a well regulated society, I would remain highly sceptical of any convictions.

If someone deliberately substituted a material that lead to a ton of deaths, I think we'll see them get prosecuted at least. If they skate it'll be because tracks were hidden carefully. But I'm guessing someone in the company turns informant for a deal - leading to some successful convictions.

 

[Liquid]

It's been 29 years and there have still been no convictions for the Hillsborough disaster, despite it being known that the police were lying whilst the incident was still happening.

They're different kettles of fish, I know, comparing prosecuting the police and a manufacturer; they shouldn't be but we know that they are. But I'm just saying that if that tragedy, for whatever reason, still hasn't had a judicial action after almost three decades, it's certainly possible that any Grenfell prosecutions could take many, many, many years.

 

[TenEightyOne]

An employee of Celotex testifies that he acted "unethically" in creating the test conditions in which the building's external insulation was certified but that he was new to the industry and thought "that was how it was done". Celotex say that "disciplinary procedures" have led to the removal of some staff. BBC.

 

[Liquid]

To the surprise of nobody and the continued anger of victims and victims' families.