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Discussion in 'GT6 Tuning' started by Motor City Hami, Nov 30, 2013.
Go to know about those curbing differences. This thread should be stickied.
Could this be from trail braking and not from the paint? I noticed a bit of extra turn in right at the end of trail braking. Have you tried this test without trail braking?
No Hami, it's not trail braking, it does it under accel post apex too. The white paint let the car inline normaly or no paint at all on certain tracks.....
So exactly opposite of real world. Now if they got more slippery in rain, that would be correct.
Before I post my thoughts, thanks for all the hard work you tuners put in, it is great to read and learn from you all.
Hami you highlighted the suspension differences above, I saw something interesting when I tested a GTR GT3 Base Model - It has a "standard" suspension that may not be changed (similar to the racing soft and racing hard sets) and a fully custom set. The only visible difference being the dampers and roll bars (Std all 1, fully custom 2's & 3's). However the fully custom setup feels completely different, even if using exactly the same numbers. So on the GTR GT3 I feel there is no correlation between the numbers between the "locked" ones (standard susp) and open ones (fully custom susp). This your experience as well?
May I please make a suggestion for this thread? As an example there are a few posts on flat floors, maybe combine all findings in one "summary" post and link to the first page? Further findings on, for example, flat floors can be added by editing the "summary" post.
EDIT: I'm not sure if this is the place to ask but what tracks do you experts normally use to get a "base line" setup going?
Hello people, one more strange thing that i want to share with you all.
First to answer to the question of fpaldrich "what tracks use to get a "base line" setup going?"
Everybody have his favorite track, mine is Suzuka first + some others to finish the test. The most important is to know perfectly the track and to be able to repeat a lap in the same half second on it to valid or not a setting, always with the help of the ghost when you can use it ,offline of course.
Now the strange setting i had to do for my MR2 limited 97 stop spinning , loosing grip , very tail happy when stock setting.
All the other settings are normals, i didn't use ballast this time, but i had to raise the rear of the car passing the everest mount.
Ride height = front 80 rear 150 . ???????????? !!!
It drive like a dream now, but where is the real life physics in this thing. ????
Backward ?? or not Backward ??? That is the question.
This pope would have like to drive my MR2
Those peoples would hate my MR2 ....
Indeed, this problem still exists (as noted in an earlier post).
Is ride height backward or was ride height just too low. I had a similar problem with the front washing out on the Mustang Boss 302. Raised the front ride height then it handled awesome. Again on the NSX '91, rear was washing out so raised rear ride height and found more grip. There seems to be a "too low" point to ride height and it doesn't always seem to be the same on both front/rear.
Found that too on the GT86 "Racing" '13. I had set my ride height low, but not that low, drove for a bit as usual, then added the flat floors. After adding the flat floors I couldn't turn to save my life, and the car just felt really weird. I raised the ride height, not realising this was the issue and it returned to normal.
The LSD seems to work the same as in GT5, with one difference. I am noticing that I am using higher LSD decel. I think I also noticed this in Praiano's tunes? Praiano, are you using more LSD decel in GT6 or did you start doing that at the end of GT5?
Also, LSD is no longer the super tune. It has a strong affect, but it cannot completely cure a car's issues alone. The other tune setting that I am noticing making a large difference is ride height. In GT5 it didn't matter much. I drove slammed tunes that were just as fast as higher tunes. In GT6 though, ride height seems to matter quite a bit. I am finding most of my lap time decreases in LSD and ride height settings. Every other setting just seems a bit vanilla - not much effect.
May just be my poor driving but seems like PD may have overdone the turbulence around cars traveling at speed.
Can have a very planted and easily drivable car suddenly become completely unstable and nearly undrivable when another car gets close. Pulling out of draft to make a pass can have the car suddenly fishtailing wildly, while having a car come up behind you by drafting can make your car suddenly go very "light".
Wondering if it's just me and my lack of skills or if others have noticed simular effects.
I have noticed using much more LSD Decel as well Hami. In GT5 many of my tunes had Decel set at 5, I'd have set it at 0 if we were able to...not the case in GT6. In some cases it is higher than Accel.
Praianos finding about the red & white curbs is also something I've noticed. I hadn't put it together until he mentioned it though.
Yea ride height is backwards from real life and what it says in the game. Lower rear than front loosens a car up. Higher rear than front will tighten a car up. This sucks but this is how the game is!!!!!!!!
No Hami, there was still room for the suspensions working good, i on the way too with my Ferrari GTO and i'm sure the 111R will need some few more rear ride height. MR in general.
I use more LSD accel since a few months. Like my M5 for the shootout. I like safe cars , first i was using a lot of dampers extensions to limit weight transfer. Now,i try to let the car play more with his balance over the springs and dampers.
Higher LSD decell help a car that move freely to not upset changing direction. I also use higher ARB than before for the same reason. In GT6 now ,all this suspension travel increase a lot, need to tight some cars more and more. Some others are almost perfect and don't need almost anything .
Need to play a lot more to catch this all.
How do you know a car is "washing out" ?
That end of the car slides then yellow tires and then red tires.
I tell ya, the one feature of GT5 I never thought I would miss and rarely used is the one I would really like to have back: the speed tests. Been trying to do gather some metrics on ride height but there's just no quick way to do it.
So has anyone did any camber testing to find the average optimum angle? It's hard to tell where these tires fall off without having decent data telemetry. I've had a car or two seem to become slower as I added camber. I thought it was weird since the camber was balanced front to back and at a low value. I raised it from 0 degrees to around 1-1.5. I must be missing something here.
I let it very close to 0, more camber increase the sharp high noise... So i put it back again most of the time. Don't know if the noise afraid me or if it stay worth, if yes ,the diff is minimum.
Yeah I'm finding out the majority of my tunes have very little camber. Which I find quite odd. Thanks for the reply
[quote="fpaldrich, post: 9090957, member: 218382"The only visible difference being the dampers and roll bars (Std all 1, fully custom 2's & 3's). However the fully custom setup feels completely different, even if using exactly the same numbers. So on the GTR GT3 I feel there is no correlation between the numbers between the "locked" ones (standard susp) and open ones (fully custom susp). This your experience as well?[/quote]
I don't think F:1/ R:1 are settings inline with the custom suspension because not every single car will use the same setting for shocks. Especially when you consider that you were using a race car, which pretuned would have higher numbers (say 5/4 ext, 5/4 comp)
Also, if you look, some cars have 0/0/0 for stock differential settings.
LSD: I'm finding that the high initial settings I used on my GT5 Vipers is working on a wider range of cars this time around
Ride Height: I don't think I've lowered many cars further than the game has. Most of the time I have had to raise ride height by a massive 5-10 inches (don't know why my ride height is in inches)
I did some testing at Willow Springs on the skid pad with the '89 MX5 Miata. Nothing i did to camber from 0.0 up to 3.5 made any difference in the speed that I could hold around the skid pad. The only difference was the color of the tires. 0.0 showed a bit of yellow. Above 3.5 showed yellow to red. At 2.2 front, the car was easier to drive on the line around the skid pad, but still only able to hit the exact same speed. Rear camber made absolutely zero difference until I got up to 4.0 and above. At these high rear settings, I could get the inside rear tire to turn red. Speed around the skid pad? Same old 47 mph. Tried the same test at Motegi oval and speed was the same at all settings. Just color of tires changed.
Kind of setting camber between 1.5 to 2.5 front and 1.0 to 2.0 rear until I can do more testing.
Have you tried this testing with any other cars?
EDIT: The work you're doing is still great though.
Not yet, but plan to do so. Would like to take some really nasty handling cars there. I think PD is in love with the Miata, so it can do no wrong in the game.
Extracting a conversation from the FITT main thread to here:
I noticed that the 1.02 update made a change to the tires. They're hold heat more than before, when the tries are pushed. Before after a lap or two they would cool down just a little, not anymore. Once my tires got into the yellow danger zone they stayed there for 8 laps until I slowed to a caution pace. Once they cooled I started to push a a little and by the 7 lap they're back in the yellow again. I'm got to make changes in the toe angle to see if that helps. If it does, I'm going digging for some old setup sheet from when I used Tein shocks on my 240. If they work correctly I'll be swinging in asphalt.
-10% power limiter = -1.042 seconds
-20% power limiter = -1.317 seconds
-30% power limiter = -1.955 seconds
1.955/96.613 = 2.02% with 30 points of power limiter
2.02%/3 = 0.67%
My rough estimate was 0.60% for 10PP
Zuels actual results was 0.67% for 10% power limiter.
Either way, you won't get a 5 second lap time difference on any track but the longest version of the Nurb in the slowest cars. Also either way, it still doesn't establish whether or not excessive power limiter use affects performance until you compare it to the same car tuned specifically for a lower PP level vs. one detuned.
I didn't bother to run on the ring due to the number a variables that can be encountered. I didn't want any faults arising, the car was set to a neutral set allowing it to run free without any kinks. I understand why you ran the test at the ring but I believe you'll get better numbers on a shorter track @Johnnypenso, running on the ring to test because of all the variables is fine but it wouldn't give a true number of time just for the reason of all the variables. Plus comparing time to GT5 is pointless due to the major changes to the title, three being KW, Yokohama and the aerodynamic algorithm, and not to forget track temp along with atmosphere changes that Kaz clearly stated that will be in GT6.
I do have question. Are you flipping the transmission? Because that also make a big difference, I don't bother with flipping the transmission. It's a EASY way out of tuning it to me.