Update sucks

[eight6er]

The only thing that sucks for me, is the problem with changing gears with the clutch, it has put an end to any drifting I did. It does not simulate how a manual gear box works any more.

 

[mines_exigeS]

evo10 can't even keep in a straight line in suzuka east (the straight strip before the 1st turn) for drift mode.
No matter how tight i hold my g25, the car still goes left to right, right to left as if it was drunk. When I line up the evo in the straight line in the middle and it's so obvious. I'm sure that even if i my hands were shaking, the movement wouldn't be so exagerated. If tried with the Mine's GTR but it didn't have as much of the problem. I've also tried adjusting the downforce and tire types but the Evo 10 on this drift course still acted as if it was drunk

 

[Adam West]

Exactly. They have pretty much ruined it. I made it a point to set aside time to play a LOT this weekend, and the game isn't even very much fun any more. I raced most of the day yesterday and several hours this morning. I really wanted to "give it a chance". But, let's face it, what we have now for physics is "Arcade: Super-Mega-Ultra-Easy" and "Arcade: Super-Mega-Easy". I took the Art Morrison around Fuji a couple times and didn't even come in dead last! In one of them I came in 1 place behind Div in a Ford GT LM (We both had a bad race though because of a very skilled punter / shortcut runner in a red boxy thing). What a joke. That car handled like crap before the update because a 1960 Vette, even stiffened, slammed, etc. would handle like complete crap. The only way around that would be to fit a completely different suspension under it. Now it takes zero skill whatsoever to get it around Fuji. You can be as clumsy and lead-footed as you like and there just isn't much downside to it.

I've also seen a LOT of terrible driving out there. The kind of driving which before the update would have been a sure sign that the driver didn't stand a chance. But now, crap driving actually seems to be rewarded.

Do this for "fun": Create a new account without a GTP prefix and copy your GT5P save game into it. Go out and drive a couple times around Fuji as cleanly and well as you can (i.e. pretend you still have your GTP tag). Then go race again and be a complete horses-back-side. Use cars to brake, ignore the racing line, drift when you know you shouldn't. Basically, do all the crappy things we all complain about other drivers doing. Suddenly you'll stand a good chance of winning.

Yes, before the update I did have the feeling that things were a little bit too hard, but only a little. Now things are vastly too easy. It makes GT4's physics feel downright perfect. What a joke.

And, before I get royally flamed: I DO understand that many people don't want extreme realism. They just want to have fun. That is why there are two physics modes! One for casual drivers, and one for those who truly want a sim. That's just fine. I'm this way about a lot of games myself - often setting the difficulty to "easy" because I just want to go have some fun, I don't want to spend my valuable time becoming uber-great at shooting a flak-cannon (for example). If that is what you want, then that's great, go have a fantastic time in Standard physics mode.

But please PD, for those of us who want a sim, give us back a driving experience that requires practice and skill and finesse, not this pedal-slamming opponent-ramming crap.

Had to quote the whole post becaue you're absolutely right. I wish i wish i hadn't done the update. First thing i did was get in a Z06. I just couldn't believe what they did to the physics. The car understeers like a submarine and even after turning off every aid it still had an invisible helping hand that prevented the car from putting all its power down.

I couldn't spin the wheels from a standstart and could not break the back end at all. Holy crap, i can't play this anymore.

btw, i was on SIM setting.

 

[Bones Brigade]

there is no "sim" setting. standard and pro. plus i guarantee youre on default tires. put it on N3.

 

[panjandrum]

there is no "sim" setting. standard and pro. plus i guarantee youre on default tires. put it on N3.

The problem isn't the tires. The problem is that the cars are too easy to drive and don't feel "real". I'm running mostly on Daytona Oval currently because Fuji is the biggest punt-fest I've ever seen. I'm running everything on N or S tires around the oval (my Elise 111r currently has N2s on it).

I was just out there on Daytona Oval 600pp for the last 2 and a quarter hours. In every single race except one I was punted, almost always by a driver who didn't appear to be driving very well (the type of drivers I would have, pre-update, passed and then waved bye-bye to in the mirror and never seen again). They shouldn't have been able to keep up with me enough to be a punting threat in the first place. The only reason they were able to ruin the races for me is because actual skill no longer makes nearly enough difference.

I took gold in the one clean race hands down.

This isn't about tires. It isn't about wheels vs. controllers. It is about the fact that a very good SIM seems to have suddenly been downgraded to the status of a mere game.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

I was on Suzuka just now, and I was just turning into spoon and got T-boned by some guy thet decided to use me as a brake. Not only did I get the ramminng penalty, but I got a short cut penalty for winding up in the back of the sand trap... Nice one PD - i'm loving it lol.

 

[Rem20]

Why is everybody so upset about the car handling, when the N spec tires remain virtually unchanged since the last update. If S/R spec tires offer too much grip, then simply go down to the N spec.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

Punters couldn't give damn what tyres you've got on your car.

EDIT: If I sound annoyed at the moment, it's because i've had 12 races and been punted 7 times.

 

[Rocket Punch]

The thing is I was good before (won a few online races) but online race is never my thing- I'm more interested in the TT. To me that's where you can tell the good drivers from the bad ones. Time is the best and the most absolute judge. I'm pretty sure by the time the leaderboard is filled up again, I'll find my time to be where it was before. If prior to the update Ihad at top 10 time time with a Nissan GT-R at London Reverse, I will again/still be in the top 10. If you want to challenge yourself- use either an S1 tire or an N3 and see if you can at least get in the top 20 times (with a poular car at a popular track, or course). This, not online racing, is where you're going be able not only challenge your ability but know for sure how good you really are.

I am sure grinding for hours to get 1 fast lap takes a lot of skill. Now that you mention it, driving lap after lap consistently with fast lap times while making quick decisions on the fly to overtake or prevent being overtaken do sound relatively easy! 💡

 

[the Interceptor]

I think there are some things that need to be separated here.

Yes, the tires do have more grip now. As I stated in another thread however, I'd say that the grip is just right. If you put the equivalent tires you'd find on the real car on a vehicle in the game (usually N3 to S1), you get about the performance figures it can do. Therefore, I'm perfectly fine with the tires as they are now.

Then, there's feel. I'm still playing around with the settings of my DFP wheel, but so far I am with you: the feel of the car has been lost. This is not about that the car drives on rails, that's another thing (and not true). It's that I can't feel what the car does through the steering. It was not perfect before the update, but for me with all the settings I have tried now, it got worse. All the indicators I have to see whether the back of my Vette is starting to slide are my view and the sounds. I do not feel anything through the wheel whatsoever, and even if I find the perfect setting, I'm not sure if I ever will.

And finally, there's the racing performance of punters. It has improved. Not because they drive faster, but because the online races on the schedule apply sports or racing tires. As those tires got grippier (which is not neccessarily unrealistic, see above) the punters have an easier time controlling the cars and keeping up. Simple solution: we need the next schedule to have races with N tires only. That'll seperate the wheat from the chaff again.

 

[GT_Fanatic]

I think there are some things that need to be separated here.

Yes, the tires do have more grip now. As I stated in another thread however, I'd say that the grip is just right. If you put the equivalent tires you'd find on the real car on a vehicle in the game (usually N3 to S1), you get about the performance figures it can do. Therefore, I'm perfectly fine with the tires as they are now.

Then, there's feel. I'm still playing around with the settings of my DFP wheel, but so far I am with you: the feel of the car has been lost. This is not about that the car drives on rails, that's another thing (and not true). It's that I can't feel what the car does through the steering. It was not perfect before the update, but for me with all the settings I have tried now, it got worse. All the indicators I have to see whether the back of my Vette is starting to slide are my view and the sounds. I do not feel anything through the wheel whatsoever, and even if I find the perfect setting, I'm not sure if I ever will.

And finally, there's the racing performance of punters. It has improved. Not because they drive faster, but because the online races on the schedule apply sports or racing tires. As those tires got grippier (which is not neccessarily unrealistic, see above) the punters have an easier time controlling the cars and keeping up. Simple solution: we need the next schedule to have races with N tires only. That'll seperate the wheat from the chaff again.

I think that private races will be the ultimate deterant against the punters/noobs. thats what we need to sort out this banger racing element we have now.

 

[Lion-Face]

BTW all the people who said the F40 was unrealistic in the handling for a supercar should check the speeds that they race through the corners at in the game and ask themselves if a ferrari with no aid would be able to exit a left hand corner at 140 kph with the foot to the floor in real life???? Not that easy to do I'd think!

I'm not quite sure the point your trying to make here, as previous to the update, the speed you could take the F40 through 130R on S2's was well above the real life speed of the car, yet on N2's it was quite comparable to real life, and after the update on N2's its still near on the mark. N2's are recommended for the most realistic representation of the car on not new tires, while N3 is brand new tires.

Doing a quick google search of F40 lap times for Suzuka, i found this -> http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.ph...1=true&filter2=true&filter3=true&filter4=true website. As you can see, the fastest laptime for the F40@ those spec is 2:25~. I'm currently, on N3 (as recommended by the ingame manual for a 'new set' of tires) racing just over 2:30~ which i know i could break the 2:30 mark but getting down to 2:25 on N2's i dont think will be an easy task. Previous to the update, a good lap with the F40 on S2 tires was 2:21~

 

[unv412]

i think i was trying to portray (not to well it seems, sorry) the real life situation of on the limit racing in a standard supercar isnt just a matter of just "point and shoot" simplicity.

BTW Panjandrum said all that needed to be said.......are you listenig PD!

 

[Rocket Punch]

I'm not quite sure the point your trying to make here, as previous to the update, the speed you could take the F40 through 130R on S2's was well above the real life speed of the car, yet on N2's it was quite comparable to real life, and after the update on N2's its still near on the mark. N2's are recommended for the most realistic representation of the car on not new tires, while N3 is brand new tires.

Doing a quick google search of F40 lap times for Suzuka, i found this -> http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.ph...1=true&filter2=true&filter3=true&filter4=true website. As you can see, the fastest laptime for the F40@ those spec is 2:25~. I'm currently, on N3 (as recommended by the ingame manual for a 'new set' of tires) racing just over 2:30~ which i know i could break the 2:30 mark but getting down to 2:25 on N2's i dont think will be an easy task. Previous to the update, a good lap with the F40 on S2 tires was 2:21~

The specs of the F40 in this game are all wrong. Can't use to compare.

 

[iam220]

Are we playing the same game?

I tried the patch out yesterday, and I love the changes to the handling. GT5p finally feels like the other Sims I've come to play and love. People here seem to think that harder equals more realistic, this is not true of course. I can understand the frustration though, you spent countless hours trying to master a driving model that requires excessive precision and sensitivity then that model drastically changes and the time you invested in mastering it is gone down the drain. It sucks I know, but suck it up and begin mastering the new driving model. It might be a lot easier to casually lap a circuit but it's still hard as hell to drive near or at the limit (with the high powered cars anyways).

 

[LinPark]

This was said previously but I think it is worth restating - they need to add at least 3 Expert level online events that limit tire usage to N series. Wouldn't that make everyone happy?

That seems like something that could be doable very quickly since we only have 12 online events at the moment and only 8 of those are races against other drivers.

 

[ukog-dyer]

Why have they messed around with the bloody clutch on the G25 so anoying.

The only time you should miss a gear is if i have not got the clutch down no matter were the gas padal is doing it seam like they are trying to make it all fair between wheels and between wheels and controllers.

 

[EvoS2i]

I'm quite happy with this patch actually. It allows diversity. Although the GTR is quite impressive I enjoy seeing Standard cars keep up with Tune cars... Before the Patch the grid line up in a 750PP event would be...

Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Amuse S2000
Corvette Tuned

I think you understand where I'm coming from

Oh and the sound is awesome down the first stretch in Fuji 750PP. Nice work GT5 Team!

 

[panjandrum]

Are we playing the same game?

I tried the patch out yesterday, and I love the changes to the handling. GT5p finally feels like the other Sims I've come to play and love. People here seem to think that harder equals more realistic, this is not true of course. I can understand the frustration though, you spent countless hours trying to master a driving model that requires excessive precision and sensitivity then that model drastically changes and the time you invested in mastering it is gone down the drain. It sucks I know, but suck it up and begin mastering the new driving model. It might be a lot easier to casually lap a circuit but it's still hard as hell to drive near or at the limit (with the high powered cars anyways).

Yeah, we are playing the same game. I think you may have hit the nail on the head a bit with this one though, but not necessarily in the way you think.

There are a lot of people here who think the new model is more realistic than the old one because the old one was too hard (much, much too hard). Then there are also a lot of people here who think the new model is a joke because it is unrealistically easy (much, much too easy).

But, while many things in life are quite subjective and may not have a true "correct" answer, I have to say on this one that I think there is a clear correct answer. And that is that the new model is too easy and that people who think it is "better" just don't truly understand how demanding real racing is. I'm not blaming you for this or trying to be insulting. It is just the way it is. I was there once also - at the beginning of GT4, and then to a lesser extent when I started autocrossing, which is much more demanding than I initially supposed. Again, if you aren't all that into racing SIMs then PD had a standard mode for you and that's just fine. But for those of us who wanted this to be a true sim, this update is a disaster.

If it felt in any way more real to me I would be out there having a blast and loving it and putting in a lot of effort learning the new physics. Unfortunately it feels like an arcade game now. It just isn't nearly as enjoyable as before.

Imagine this scenario: You are an excellent golfer. Not professional maybe, but very very good. You've practiced it and put in time to become good. Now imagine that all the golf courses decided that, to attract more players, and because it was perceived as a "hard" game, that golf had to be much easier. They make the holes 3 feet across. Now almost everyone is magically good at golf. They all think they are good golfers. The problem is that they haven't become good. The game has only been ruined for the people who were actually good in the first place. It has become so easy that "good" doesn't matter very much anymore, and for those who really loved the game, the true fanatics, it has been ruined.

If we could find a actual experienced race-car driver to give their opinion of the physics pre and post-update that would be great.

I would also love to see Scaff step in and give his opinion since he has consistently provided a balanced view of the physics.

 

[Ghoa$t]

I'm quite happy with this patch actually. It allows diversity. Although the GTR is quite impressive I enjoy seeing Standard cars keep up with Tune cars... Before the Patch the grid line up in a 750PP event would be...

Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Ford GT Limited Spec II Tuned
Amuse S2000
Corvette Tuned

I think you understand where I'm coming from

Oh and the sound is awesome down the first stretch in Fuji 750PP. Nice work GT5 Team!

Yea why not also make the Tuned cars be able to keep up with the F2007 in the next update 👍

 

[the Interceptor]

@ panjandrum: given I change the tires to the appropriate level, I can't say that handling the cars has gotten much easier.

 

[myke6699]

I am sure grinding for hours to get 1 fast lap takes a lot of skill. Now that you mention it, driving lap after lap consistently with fast lap times while making quick decisions on the fly to overtake or prevent being overtaken do sound relatively easy! 💡

Had the current online races were longer not 3-5 laps sprint and restricted to S tires (not a lot of skill required driving the R tires) and no rubberbanding ( yes, it's still there) and drivers are racing against their peers (skill), then I would say that racing requires much more skill than the TT. But right now, if you're resonably good and you survive the mayhem at the beginning of the race, it requires less skll than to be able to get onto the top of the TT leaderboard. I admit a good driving skills and racing skills are two different things (I was a competitve swimmer and cyclist at one time). But in TT, being able to beat your PB, it becomes both a physcological battle and when you're doing 20-30 laps around a track like Suzuka, it requires an inordinate amount of concentration. Nonetheless, even the best simulation can't barely touch what happen in the real world.

 

[iam220]

Yeah, we are playing the same game. I think you may have hit the nail on the head a bit with this one though, but not necessarily in the way you think.

There are a lot of people here who think the new model is more realistic than the old one because the old one was too hard (much, much too hard). Then there are also a lot of people here who think the new model is a joke because it is unrealistically easy (much, much too easy).

But, while many things in life are quite subjective and may not have a true "correct" answer, I have to say on this one that I think there is a clear correct answer. And that is that the new model is too easy and that people who think it is "better" just don't truly understand how demanding real racing is. I'm not blaming you for this or trying to be insulting. It is just the way it is. I was there once also - at the beginning of GT4, and then to a lesser extent when I started autocrossing, which is much more demanding than I initially supposed. Again, if you aren't all that into racing SIMs then PD had a standard mode for you and that's just fine. But for those of us who wanted this to be a true sim, this update is a disaster.

If it felt in any way more real to me I would be out there having a blast and loving it and putting in a lot of effort learning the new physics. Unfortunately it feels like an arcade game now. It just isn't nearly as enjoyable as before.

Imagine this scenario: You are an excellent golfer. Not professional maybe, but very very good. You've practiced it and put in time to become good. Now imagine that all the golf courses decided that, to attract more players, and because it was perceived as a "hard" game, that golf had to be much easier. They make the holes 3 feet across. Now almost everyone is magically good at golf. They all think they are good golfers. The problem is that they haven't become good. The game has only been ruined for the people who were actually good in the first place. It has become so easy that "good" doesn't matter very much anymore, and for those who really loved the game, the true fanatics, it has been ruined.

If we could find a actual experienced race-car driver to give their opinion of the physics pre and post-update that would be great.

I would also love to see Scaff step in and give his opinion since he has consistently provided a balanced view of the physics.

See here is the thing; I never raced in real life and I don't need to race in real life in order to judge the realism in this game. Why you ask? Well, it's because my basis of comparison is on other driving sims (of the pc kind), which I have extensive experience with. All top tier driving sims have a very similar feeling driving model (this is not a coincidence). Before the update, gt5p felt nothing like the mentioned sims, after the update it felt a lot closer to them. To me, it's as simple as that.

Of course you can prove me wrong if you can successfully argue that a pre-release of a full game that is aimed towards a mainstream audience has somehow managed to have had better physics then established sims that are targeted towards a niche.

Edit: So you're saying being "good" doesn't matter much anymore? So does that mean you expect to see every ones top laps to be less then a second away from the leaders? Do you really expect a new player to select pro physics and all aids off and come within 1-2 or even 3 seconds within the world record with minimum amount of practice?

@myke6699: No a lot skill required driving R tyres? So you must be consistently lapping within 1 second of the world record right?

 

[JAGUAR1977]

This all reminds me of the days of GTR on the PC.

Many, like myself, spent umpteen hours perfecting our driving styles to control these 'on ice' GT racecars, it was fun, but some like me believed the cars were far too difficult to control.

When GTR2 was released a hardcore accused Simbin of selling out to the arcade crowd, rather than accepting that modern road and race cars aren't that difficult to drive, hence why 50 year old amateur drivers can race alongside full time pro drivers in the likes of the ALMS, and still put up a decent show, only a second or two off the ultimate pace. Similar accusations were leveled at Simbins Race 06/07, yet a current WTCC and Sim driver stated the cars had too little grip, and locked their wheels too easily. There seems to be a vast underestimation as to just how much grip modern tyres have, look how planted to the road a modern hatchback is, nevermind a slick shod sportscar!

This is 2008, even a 20 year old F40 can still be driven with relative ease, go back another 20 years and I accept you may have dfficulty with a Cobra or GT40, but to suggest a current Ford GT should be a handful on the track doesn't tally, you should be able to press relatively hard before losing control.

 

[iam220]

This all reminds me of the days of GTR on the PC.

Many, like myself, spent umpteen hours perfecting our driving styles to control these 'on ice' GT racecars, it was fun, but some like me believed the cars were far too difficult to control.

When GTR2 was released a hardcore accused Simbin of selling out to the arcade crowd, rather than accepting that modern raod and race cars aren't that difficult to drive, hence why 50 year old amateur drivers can race alongside full time pro drivers in the likes of the ALMS, and still put up a decent show, only a second or two off the ultimate pace.

This is 2008, even a 20 year old F40 can still be driven with relative ease, go back another 20 years and I accept you may have dfficulty with a Cobra or GT40, but to suggest a current Ford GT should be a handful on the track doesn't compute, you should be able to press relatively hard before losing control.

You nailed it! It reminds me of GTR as well, and all the bitching that was present when GTR2 came.

 

[LinPark]

I know I'm going to regret this but here goes.

I never raced in real life and I don't need to race in real life in order to judge the realism in this game. Why you ask? Well, it's because my basis of comparison is on other driving sims (of the pc kind), which I have extensive experience with.

WHAT? So you don't need to experience reality before you can judge how real something is? Instead you want to compare it to something else that "claims" to be real and then expect everyone to agree with your analsis. Dude that is twisted.

Think of all the oddball applications we could use that logic on:

• Video Games vs Reality
• Watching it on TV vs Being there Live
• Porn vs Real Sex
• Fast Food vs Real Food

If your point of view is that McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, etc. are "real" hamburgers then can you honestly rate all other burgers you eat against that and say its "real" as well as expect everyone to agree with that analysis?

 

[MrKipling43]

Ello chaps.

Bit of a n00b, but I've lurked for some time.

As someone who has had a lot of experience driving fast cars, fast (motoring journo) I can confidently say that the new update for GT is nowhere near as realistic as the preceding version.

You have to remember that, in GT5-P, you're driving very powerful cars right on the ragged edge, which is a very difficult thing to do indeed. It shouldn't be as easy as it is now...

It also seems a bit pointless - why not keep the old model, but slot in this new one between 'Pro' and 'Standard' handling modes?

Elsewhere, the new sounds are top but I've a bit gutted there's no more Suzuka and - despite the fact that you're less likely to get punted off by the idiots - the lack of collisions does take something away from the online.

I think the phrase 'dumbed down' is very apt.

 

[Ghoa$t]

See here is the thing; I never raced in real life and I don't need to race in real life in order to judge the realism in this game.

EPIC FAIL!

Ello chaps.

Bit of a n00b, but I've lurked for some time.

As someone who has had a lot of experience driving fast cars, fast (motoring journo) I can confidently say that the new update for GT is nowhere near as realistic as the preceding version.

You have to remember that, in GT5-P, you're driving very powerful cars right on the ragged edge, which is a very difficult thing to do indeed. It shouldn't be as easy as it is now...

It also seems a bit pointless - why not keep the old model, but slot in this new one between 'Pro' and 'Standard' handling modes?

Elsewhere, the new sounds are top but I've a bit gutted there's no more Suzuka and - despite the fact that you're less likely to get punted off by the idiots - the lack of collisions does take something away from the online.

I think the phrase 'dumbed down' is very apt.

Thank You Sir.

There is now way this can be called a racing sim if you are able to just jump in and drive like you've been driving for years just after playing for a couple of hours (unless you are an experienced racing sim driver). While the old physics had its flaws, this new physics feels like you're driving home from grocery shopping, way too easy.

 

[the Interceptor]

May I just ask, as I'm not sure, whether those who refer to the update as feeling not realistic anymore judge this by the online races mostly? I'm asking because those races have been spoiled by too good tires, so naturally, there will be a lot more grip than before. At the same time, this shouldn't be the benchmark for realism, cause pretty much every car will stick to the road on soft full slicks.

I can only recommend to get into a BMW M3 and try the A-class challenge on Eiger backwards. I did that today because I remembered this was the hardest challenge for me where I didn't even come close to gold in professional mode before the update. Today, I was about four seconds off the gold pace. I'm sure I could get within three seconds in pro mode, but not much more. Now, please try this, then come back here and tell me in all honesty that driving has become easier.

 

[iam220]

I know I'm going to regret this but here goes.



WHAT? So you don't need to experience reality before you can judge how real something is? Instead you want to compare it to something else that "claims" to be real and then expect everyone to agree with your analsis. Dude that is twisted.

Think of all the oddball applications we could use that logic on:

• Video Games vs Reality
• Watching it on TV vs Being there Live
• Porn vs Real Sex
• Fast Food vs Real Food

If your point of view is that McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, etc. are "real" hamburgers then can you honestly rate all other burgers you eat against that and say its "real" as well as expect everyone to agree with that analysis?

Uh, no, you missed my point completely. If you have a set of racing sims that are already considered and established as authentic, and a new racing sim comes out, you do not have to do the difficult comparison of how it performs vs real life. Instead you can do the simple comparison as to how it performs vs established racing sims. It's hard to compare a simulator to real life when it's easy to compare a new simulator to a benchmark simulator(s). The only time this logic fails is when the new racing sim is more authentic then the simulators it's being compared against. In this case the gt5p sans the update would have to have been the best sim around for my comparison to be invalid.

@ drama-kyd: Ok smart guy, if I cannot use other simulators as basis of my comparison, then can you please explain to me why gt5p felt radically different then any other racing simulator before the update?

Edit: just a thought, are you guys using your old set ups for the update?