2011 Formula 1 British Grand Prix

Discussion in 'Motorsport' started by Peter., Jul 4, 2011.

  1. Moot

    Moot

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    Maybe this kind of talk will change when Vettel goes to Ferrari, surprising Horner and Red Bull.
    I think it must happen, like how Alonso made it happen for him. It's in no small way the Schumacher effect.Vettel wants another 7 championship wins, but doing it in a Red Bull is 99% satisfying, doing it in a Ferrari would be 100% mission complete.
     
  2. Akira AC

    Akira AC

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    I was thinking about the same,I guess that Hornet didn't want to take any risks,But I will agree that the battle should have take place,the problem is that the "backing" occur in a very late stage,when the race was almost over(in the last lap,after the first sector),so there was no way to know if Vettel would have given away his position,or indeed Webber would pass Vettel(and most importantly) cleanly,this is the sort of thing that they probably consider.
     
  3. F1 fan

    F1 fan Premium

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    But it's not. I'll never be an F1 driver, or a racing driver for that matter. I'll never truly know what it feels like.
     
  4. SaberFire

    SaberFire

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    Vettel, go to Ferrari? I loled :p

    As long as Vettel keeps his form up, and RBR keep churning out storming cars, I see no reason for him to jump ship. In any case, Alonso is pretty much the pefect driver for Ferrari. I actually can't think of anyone else, past or present who suits Ferrari more than that man, regardless of my personal feelings towards him.
     
  5. Moot

    Moot

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    I mean eventually, not next year or so. Might depend on Newey.
     
  6. HippieGiraffe

    HippieGiraffe Premium

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    You reminded me of the Jag's, whom were sponsored by Beck's...

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    A relatively young Mark Webber up top, Eddie Irvine down below. British Racing Green no less!
     
  7. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Premium

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    It may be just down to the fact that he never got a chance to drive this car, which he has never driven before this weekend, in a completely dry session. Accompanied by the fact that it was his very first Grand Prix. I've been following Ricciardo's career on-and-off up to this point, so I'm hoping he can put in a much better performance in the coming rounds. :tup:


    As for the rest of the race, I thoroughly enjoyed it, easily one of my favourite races this year. A few great drives up the field, in particular, Schumacher although he shouldn't have been in that position in the first place. There were some great battles throughout the field, Vettel vs. Hamilton and later on Webber had me on the edge of my seat. I loved the last lap fightback from Hamilton but perhaps McLaren left it a little late to tell Hamilton he could push. I'd also like to mention a nice consistent drive from Perez, he kept himself out of trouble and got himself in the points for the second time this year and first time since his Monaco crash. I'm not a big Ferrari fan but I was glad to see them rake in their first win of the season, Alonso drove a very nice race there.
     
  8. Only_in_f1

    Only_in_f1

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    What annoys me is people have such short memories.

    Red Bull took a MASSIVE risk last season by not letting Webber take the title in Brazil, which they could have engineered. But no they let Vettel take the win and lucked in a little and Vettel took the championship. I'm cool with that their risk.

    When what happened with Ferrari in Germany happened, who rolled in front of the cameras to criticize them? Mr Horner and his 'We let our drivers race' attitude and that Ferrari robbed the fans of a great race.

    During the off-season he declared the rule change would not change this philosophy and that Red Bull would still let their drivers race.

    Middle of the season with Vettel 80 points in the lead they ask a driver to hold off? Don't make me laugh.

    It was fun to see him squirm when being interviewed by Ted after the race, very similar to what Stefano was doing a year ago.

    F1 Fan you might as well change that name to Vettel Fan. Put it this way F1 Fan if it was the other way around you'd probably cry blue murder about how unfair it was. And you could bet your LIFE if it was the other way around position wise there would be no 'orders'. If you think anyone that has spoken out against Red Bull doesn't get why they did it you are wrong. But you can't trott out the 'We make F1 fun' and take the moral high ground when others do this, only to do it yourself.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 11, 2011
  9. niky

    niky Moderator

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    You miss a lot when you have to go to bed... why am I not surprised this has grown several pages in the interim?

    One quick note about team orders... what happened, happened. Even after the radio transmission, Mark didn't seem to back off. In fact, he made one or two attempts after, then seemed to fall back and consider it an undue risk to try to overtake Vettel... I'm not surprised that Mark said he disregarded it.

    "Team orders" like that, I'm fine with. You're telling the drivers not to do anything stupid. Like with Button and Hamilton last time out... fair enough... give the second driver a little bit of time to work something out (which Red Bull did), but if he can't make anything stick, make them calm down, because it's too risky... infinitely preferable to telling the lead driver to basically roll over and play dead...


    :lol: Too true... but boy is he a fantastic driver. Maybe you should refrain from predicting an Alonso win every single race... then he might win WDC. :D

    Alonso had the pace. Even without Hamiltonian intervention or wheel nuts, Ferrari had the pace and ability to overtake Vettel in the pits.

    Remember... Vettel had to go into fuel saving strategy at the end of the race... Alonso was still sitting pretty. It took all Vettel had just to stay ahead of Webber.


    Schumacher plowed into the back of Kamui Kobayashi from a million miles away. Massa had overtaken Hamilton just at the corner. Hamilton was never obliged to give him more than one car width of room on the corner exit, yet Hamilton gave him half the track. In F1, the overtaking driver has to make the move stick, yet Massa turned in on Hamilton. This is why other people were saying that they hoped the incident would not result in a penalty for Massa. But I'm happy the stewards found no fault with Massa's overtake attempt.

    And mind you... Lewis came off worse in that one... he lost an endplate... Massa didn't get a puncture. On the last corner, Massa went far wide and lost the race by 0.002 seconds. Can't get any more honest and exciting than that.

    The only bit of really questionable driving from Hamilton today was some of his defense on Vettel... He almost seemed to make a double move in some instances, but in those, Vettel was not close enough and Hamilton was apparently aiming to get back on the racing line. If Vettel doesn't complain, I won't.

    ----

    EDIT: I'm surprised nobody's complained about the extra practice and development laps Alonso got of the new circuit in the guise of nostalgic running of what is clearly an F150 disguised as a classic race car. When you're driving the wheels off of the damn thing, that's not a parade lap. :lol:
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  10. F1 fan

    F1 fan Premium

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    You don't think I remember all that? The difference last year was that the two drivers were a lot closer, so both had a chance of winning the championship. Webber has shown so far this year that he is not performing to a high enough level. And as has been said before, another difference is that team orders were infact illegal last season, but they aren't now. Christian's trying to do the best for his team. In that instance, the order was correct. It was too late in the race to take a risk like that.

    Today, I got involved in a huge arguement which included two moderators. One of whom revealed that I apparently get reported quite a lot. May I remind you that whilst I may have been reported before, I have had not so much as a warning from a moderator, so I clearly haven't done anything wrong. As a matter of fact, I am considering raising this issue with another moderator, as I don't think it's appropriate for a mod to be washing dirty laundry in public. Especially when you consider the fact that I haven't done anything wrong. If I had, then surely one of the mods who read the reports about me would have taken some sort of action. As for you, stop making assumptions about me. They're unfounded and immature.
     
  11. Only_in_f1

    Only_in_f1

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    That has nothing to do with the point I'm trying to make. Fact is Red Bull could have lost that title last season, hardly good for the team is it? But they took a risk and it paid off.

    I'm only against they hypocrisy, not the idea.

    ...What the hell does this have to do with anything?
     
  12. F1 fan

    F1 fan Premium

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    Read the last two sentences. It's about you and your unfounded assumptions.
     
  13. Grayfox

    Grayfox

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    Is their any word on the Lewis's contact with Massa?
     
  14. niky

    niky Moderator

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    F1 Fan, Only_in_F1, let's cool it and just agree to disagree for the meantime?

    -

    @Grayfox: Stewards did not see fit to investigate. Both Massa and Hamilton passed the whole thing off as just being a racing incident and were giddy as schoolgirls about the thrill of the fight. No complaints filed either side.

    Okay... maybe not giddy as schoolgirls, but they weren't grumpy about the whole thing. And Lewis Hamilton didn't have to use his Platinum Card to get to the Steward's Table this race.
     
  15. homeforsummer

    homeforsummer Premium

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    They went over this post race. Schumacher was essentially out of control, Massa and Hamilton were not. They were both turning into the corner and came together. Simple as that.

    The stewards had no problem with it, neither driver had a problem with it and Domenicali had no problem with it.

    There was no problem with the incident.

    That, combined with Horner being a massive hypocrite for being so vehemently against team orders when other teams do them, is my problem with what happened. If team orders are legal then so be it, but it's ridiculous to slate the concept and then give your own orders so blatantly, whilst showing zero confidence that your drivers can't race cleanly.

    Webber did appear to back off from around Copse on the last lap - he certainly wasn't as close as he'd been for the previous few laps. Leads me to believe the last transmission between Horner and Webber wasn't the one we heard on TV and there might have been a bit more of an ultimatum. I'd be interested to see the timing from the last few laps to see whether Webber really did back off.

    Which program were you watching? Webber was quoted as saying he had four or five calls to back off and he ignored them. Sounds like disobeying orders to me!
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  16. Robin

    Robin Premium

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    I wonder what would happen if a driver disobeys team orders? Like if Webber won this race then later in the season someone else wins the drivers championship (unlikely) because of it, would he get fired?

    From what I saw he really didn't look like he was listening and was going at it as hard as he could!
     
  17. Anghammarad

    Anghammarad Premium

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    This has not escaped me. My predictions for Germany is that Alonso will break a drive shaft on the installation lap. :dopey:
     
  18. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    Can you predict the lottery? I'd love some number choices, and if I win, I'll cut you in.

    $20 Dollars. Yes, I know, it's redundant.
     
  19. Anghammarad

    Anghammarad Premium

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    Isn't it apparent that my race prediction skills are not very good? :)


    Here is something that I found mildly interesting.

    WDC standings after 9 races 2010:

    1. Lewis Hamilton 127
    2. Jenson Button 121
    3. Sebastian Vettel 115
    4. Mark Webber 103
    5. Fernando Alonso 98

    WDC standings after 9 races 2011:

    1. Sebastian Vettel 204
    2. Mark Webber 124
    3. Fernando Alonso 112
    4. Lewis Hamilton 109
    5. Jenson Button 109

    Alonso actually have more points this season even though the Ferrari has been so uncompetitive. Maybe it hasn't really, it's just that the Red Bull of this years is so much better than last years (well it is, at least from a realiability POV) OTOH Alonso has been better this year, he made a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes in the early part of last season. Anyway, if Ferrari can make a second half of the season similar to last year then we will at least have interesting races even though the championship is already decided.
     
  20. Famine

    Famine Administrator

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    And here's the issue. We were discussing. You were arguing. It's always verbal combat to you, never a conversation. Anyone who's not with you, 100%, is against you and must be battled.

    Notice how few members of staff actually post in the F1 threads? It's not because many of them are American either*, but because they can't be bothered with the hassle of having you - and others - starting up yet another F1 thread rant which will inevitably result in someone having to give out an Infraction, which will inevitably result in a massive, unceasing PM rant about conflict of interest and bias and abusing power because they were wrong. It's simply not worth it - and it makes F1 threads almost exactly as enticing as the GT5 forum is, and we don't like that because we are posting members first (that's why we're here) and staff second. Posting here or in the GT5 forum turns from a ten minute browse of GTPlanet into two hours of moderation.


    And, for clarity, the "we" wasn't two moderators - only one of us (me) is actually a member of staff at all, and I'm an administrator.


    That's not entirely true any more.

    My post-before-last contained some instructions directed at you and, overall, constituted a warning (lower case) that attitudes in these threads will change. And, let's be clear, had you directed those rhetorically-phrased insults at another member and I'd received the report, we'd currently be having this conversation in private messages titled "You have received an Infraction at GTP Forums". Instead we're having it here.

    Attitudes are turning these threads into pitched battles of team/driver fans vs. other team/driver fans, into quasi-racist warzones and into no-go areas for people on this site who just like to talk about the F1 this week - and moderators, who cannot be bothered to waste their time hearing the same complaints in their inboxes.

    That's done as of yesterday. Anyone who cannot discuss a topic on GTPlanet without referring to the personal characteristics of people who don't agree with them has no place here.


    You're most welcome to. However there is only one other "moderator" to whom I answer and there is only one person to whom any moderator on GTPlanet needs to justify their actions. That'll be Jordan.

    That's what's happening right now - only it's not limited to just you, rather everyone who behaves in the manner described above.

    Incidentally, the reason you may have heard the Maldonado story before is because I posted it in May (and March). It was genuinely related to me by an acquaintance of mine (we both moderate another site) who has some interesting hobbies and motoring connections - we can also count a Renault F1 engineer amongst our mutual acquaintances - just as I said it was.


    *Satire
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  21. dhandeh

    dhandeh Premium

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    Shame we didn't have a thread like this during the valencia gp, it would have gone a lot faster and been more enjoyable (not sure enjoyable is the correct term, but it would be said while putting it in ditto's, a bit like 'enjoyable' followed by a winky thing, like this :sly:).

    Anyway, good race, lots of action and the best driver/team combo won on the day. Which is always happens. Whether its Vettel, Alonso , Hamilton etc.
     
  22. Grand Prix

    Grand Prix Premium

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    Great race, like the new layout of Silverstone, I think the placement of the start/finish straight has helped create a great final section for a last lap battle, as shown in the Massa/Hamilton battle.

    Great to see Webber not giving a damn either. :lol: Hilarious to see that coming from Red Bull. He's probably going to get the boot at the end of the season anyways, might as well do it in style.

    Looking forward to the races ahead. :tup:
     
  23. Ardius

    Ardius

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    I have never bought anything because I saw it on an F1 car or involved with F1. I have never bought anything immediately through seeing an advert or sponsorship.
    I have, however, recognised and sometimes bought certain brands because I recognise them, either conciously or not from F1 or otherwise. Thats of course if I already needed/wanted whatever product they sell. I never took up smoking just because of Rothmans, B&H, Marlboro, West or whoever, but as you can see, I recognise and know all of the brands. Perhaps if I ever did take up smoking, I would try one of those brands because I already know of them.
    Maybe I will try new products because of F1 sponsorship because I don't know any better but otherwise I won't buy an inferior product. I will still try and get the best possible deal for me. So it really makes no difference if these brands are involved in "cool battles", but it does make a difference if they win championships and races because I'm much more likely to remember the brand name.

    The key point in this quote is "it made me more aware". Advertising, branding, sponsorship...is not about immediate sales. Its about creating "brand awareness". First of all, Red Bull can pump out thousands of various adverts with the tagline "F1 World Champions" which certanly sounds more special. Secondly, all the major news papers and press generally report who wins the title and who wins the races. Constantly being told Red Bull have won another race quite obviously makes people remember the brand name, even if they don't know what Red Bull is.

    A great overtake or battle at a Grand Prix certainly does go down in history as quite memorable, however, there is a risk it wouldn't. If they let them race and they crashed or Webber got past easily without much of a battle, they've potentially lost the championship (I'm not saying the team orders were correct before anyone jumps on me) and not gained any bonus publicity from a "cool battle". Also it would only ever be mentioned as an aside to whoever won the race by the press. It would never be mentioned much again except by F1 fans.

    You were (and other people) asking why Red Bull felt they needed to secure the championship as opposed to the possible publicity of a "cool battle". The answer is very simple, winning the championship is 100% assured publicity and brand exposure. Letting two drivers have at it is not 100% assured publicity and brand exposure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  24. Moot

    Moot

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    I take on board that point of view, but my other point stands, a most important thing is the colour/logo of the car and if it represents a product that is already known in the marketplace.
    7up got etched into my brain but they didn't win any championships. Could be down to age and profile of viewer also.
    If Ferrari had been sponsored by coca-cola in big letters for a long time it might have had a big effect on revenue, even in a time of poor results. But then if you were used to seeing Ferrari in red before it would be less of an impact and the effect not so great.
    Advertising is about impact that might not always be about winning. Unusual changes can work, like the tie in with Star Wars in the pit lane, this would have instantly created a strong attachment to a lot of young boys watching, and it might make them like the team more than before, whether or not they won or lost.
     
  25. Ardius

    Ardius

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    Of course its not just about winning otherwise why would anyone sponsor Virgin or even Force India and Sauber?!
    But winning is a much more valuable piece of brand awareness than a "cool battle" and especially as in this scenario we are referring to, one option is a higher risk than the other.

    I don't really see what your new point has to do with the original point you were making. You asked why Red Bull did not want the "cool battle" exposure, the answer is that they would like to win the championship because it gives them much better exposure, because they are also a team, not just a sponsor and because the risk of letting their drivers battle is that they don't gain any publicity at all from it (though its not really a consideration for Horner, it was entirely because he thought Webber would crash into Vettel).

    Also, the biggest audience that an F1 sponsor would like to achieve is those that don't watch F1 much or only casually. For this audience, winning the championship is pretty much the only way to get your name out. The average person on the street probably will have heard of Vettel and Red Bull...they probably won't know who Adrian Sutil is or that Kingfisher sponsors an F1 team.
     
  26. Moot

    Moot

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    If Kingfisher was bright pink metallic all over the car. It would be the most recognised current sponsor in F1.
    Or no?
    There needs to be a woman in F1, to have a new looking car, with sponsors for nail varnish and underwear.
     
  27. Ardius

    Ardius

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    We are not talking about Red Bull painting their car pink though are we?
     
  28. Moot

    Moot

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    No, they don't need to, but HRT, Sauber or Williams maybe. They look too boring, who are they trying to impact? Nobody.
     
  29. Pupik

    Pupik Staff Emeritus

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    Well, Sauber and Williams have to "entertain" a raft of sponsors, so the overall color scheme has to be somewhat muted so see each one of them. If they all had their ways with corporate branding policies around the entire car, it would be a mess, I presume.

    Did anyone else think the new pit lane is just a little too narrow? All this money spent on something with a quasi-Frank Gehery roof and a canyon at the end of the strip of boxes...seems a little absurd.

    As one of lone American-F1-&-moderators here, the battles over the trivial and mundane in this forum is boring. Why is that?
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
  30. Hollidog

    Hollidog

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    The pit lane seems to be a huge blunder of this new layout. Its too narrow, like you said, its sunken down at the end so that the people watching cant see what is going on in the pitlane, its shorter than the actual track and the commentators pointed out various other problems to do with setting up the stands on the pit wall and retrieving broken down cars from the grid.

    Did anyone watch any of the support races?