2014 United Sports Car Championship

[joetruckv8]

Th

The DTM model is what I would want protecting me. I think the GT cars should be up to a similar standard. The side impact zone is a fatality waiting to happen on some of those cars

There were some Bathurst side impacts that I saw from on boards where the drivers were still being thrown around pretty violently!!! I had no idea how popular and fast Simonsen was until after his death. Then I saw how many car manufactors he raced for Ferrari, Aston Martin, and a few others. Had he been in 1 of those race safety hubs he would probably had been here today. It was hard watching Bathurst 2012 & 2013 and watching him killing it to just miss the win both years, but Craig Lowndes drove his Ferrari Fatory seat to a 1st place finish this pass 2014 Bathurst. Sorry for the spoiler alert to the guys whom haven't seen the race yet. If you are going to watch them, watch them all from atleast 2010,2011 to current. You can see how more & more FIA GT3's are taking up the grid. Mclaren, Aston Martin, Nismo GTR were new to the grid this 2014 round, after the sport being dominated by Audi's 1st, then, Ferrari, Mercedes Benz. Ferrari has always been fast there but this time they converted that speed into a win. It's amazing how fast they fly over the top of the mountain!!!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

The DTM model is what I would want protecting me. I think the GT cars should be up to a similar standard. The side impact zone is a fatality waiting to happen on some of those cars

Sadly that was already the case last year...

EDIT: @joetruckv8 got to it before me.

 

[cnd01]

Sadly that was already the case last year...

EDIT: @joetruckv8 got to it before me.

That was a Simonsen reference. I really hope they take another look. Prototype safety standards are extremely tough. For Westy to survive his vicious roll in testing and then Memo, it shows how far safety has come. The R18 crashes a few years ago also show the safety of the carbon tub

 

[Müle]

Carbon tub safety has improved a lot since the Zanardi accident. In Memo's situation with a carbon tub his legs probably would have been okay, but he would have suffered neck/back injuries (probably a slipped disk) which would put him out for a comparable amount of time.

In a typical high speed crash a carbon tub is safer, but in this specific (very rare) circumstance the tube frame is as safe, if not safer. Overall I would still feel more safe in a carbon tub (or DTM style) as opposed to a tube frame chassis.

IndyCars have had at least one crash where the carbon tub was penetrated in every season since the DW12 became the spec car.





Bordais got lucky and didn't get injured, but Wilson still broke his hip. Granted, they're not completely failing, and we're not seeing anything on the magnitude of Zanardi's crash, but Tubeframes are still that little bit safer.

I agree that the DTM hybrid cell is the best option, though. I'm pretty sure I saw where Scott Elkins is looking at it as a future option.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That was a Simonsen reference. I really hope they take another look. Prototype safety standards are extremely tough. For Westy to survive his vicious roll in testing and then Memo, it shows how far safety has come. The R18 crashes a few years ago also show the safety of the carbon tub

I didn't see any reference, you said "is a fatality waiting to happen" which implies it hasn't happened yet but could...we were just saying it did since from your post you didn't seem aware of it.

Rolls aren't an issue in any of these series even open tops except when they fly into catch fences (e.g. Dario). It's not at all surprising that even the old school tube frame and foam chassis of NASCAR do extremely well in a roll over and the carbon tub does better. It's impact from another car that needs to be looked at more.

I'd gladly take a roll over in one of these than being hit by another car

 

[cnd01]

I didn't see any reference, you said "is a fatality waiting to happen" which implies it hasn't happened yet but could...we were just saying it did since from your post you didn't seem aware of it.

Rolls aren't an issue in any of these series even open tops except when they fly into catch fences (e.g. Dario). It's not at all surprising that even the old school tube frame and foam chassis of NASCAR do extremely well in a roll over and the carbon tub does better. It's impact from another car that needs to be looked at more.

I'd gladly take a roll over in one of these than being hit by another car

It's not just the car's job to keep the driver safe. The tracks need to get safer as well. Canada corner is one of the most dangerous spots on any road course in terms of the lack of track safety. I'm glad Le Mans took the time to put a tire barrier up where Simonsen hit the armco/tree

 

[joetruckv8]

Not to change the subject, but does anyone know why we are not racing all the good tracks this year in the Tudor championship. We're not racing The good Canada circuit (F1), Barber Motorsports park, and Mazda Raceway, but we are doing the O so boring Kansas Speedway horse shoe, and mosport park. Those 2 could if been dropped for Canada & Barber or Mazda even!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's not just the car's job to keep the driver safe. The tracks need to get safer as well. Canada corner is one of the most dangerous spots on any road course in terms of the lack of track safety. I'm glad Le Mans took the time to put a tire barrier up where Simonsen hit the armco/tree

Actually it is the car's job to keep the driver safe, if it wasn't then the advancements of safety in racing should not keep going and teams should rely on track implementation of "safety". Both need to be done to the highest standard but only one can keep progressing and that is the car, you can only make a track so safe. The point still stands as @joetruckv8 said, if a better system in the car like the DTM version shown we wouldn't be having this conversation most likely.

 

[RACECAR]

Not yo change the subject, but does anyone know why we are not racing all the good tracks this year in the Tudor championship. We're not racing The good Canada circuit (F1), Barber Motorsports park, and Mazda Raceway, but we are doing the O so boring Kansas Speedway horse shoe, and mosport park. Those 2 could if been dropped for Canada & Barber or Mazda even!

Dude, Laguna Seca is on the schedule.

Not sure why Barber Motorsports Park isn't on the schedule, maybe they couldn't work something out this time around

Also, why do you refer to Montreal as the "The Good Canada Circuit"? Mosport isn't a bad track.

 

[cnd01]

Actually it is the car's job to keep the driver safe, if it wasn't then the advancements of safety in racing should not keep going and teams should rely on track implementation of "safety". Both need to be done to the highest standard but only one can keep progressing and that is the car, you can only make a track so safe. The point still stands as @joetruckv8 said, if a better system in the car like the DTM version shown we wouldn't be having this conversation most likely.

A combination of both is necessary.

Not to change the subject, but does anyone know why we are not racing all the good tracks this year in the Tudor championship. We're not racing The good Canada circuit (F1), Barber Motorsports park, and Mazda Raceway, but we are doing the O so boring Kansas Speedway horse shoe, and mosport park. Those 2 could if been dropped for Canada & Barber or Mazda even!

Laguna is on the schedule. Barber wasn't "prestigious" enough to make the schedule even though crappy tracks like Long Beach, Belle Isle, and Kansas did. Montreal isn't on there for some odd reason. It dropped off the grand am schedule last year, and I don't if or when ALMS raced it. I'm disappointed that Mid-O didn't make the cut the most. I'm fine with Mosport being on the schedule. It's a blast to race on Iracing, and it's got a lot of character

 

[RACECAR]

Laguna is on the schedule. Barber wasn't "prestigious" enough to make the schedule even though crappy tracks like Long Beach, Belle Isle, and Kansas did. Montreal isn't on there for some odd reason. It dropped off the grand am schedule last year, and I don't if or when ALMS raced it. I'm disappointed that Mid-O didn't make the cut the most. I'm fine with Mosport being on the schedule. It's a blast to race on Iracing, and it's got a lot of character

Completely disagree about Long beach (mostly because you seem to hate Street circuits overall). Its is by far one of the few street circuits that doesn't follow the "corner, corner, corner, speeeed, corner, corner" crap that most have (including Belle Isle) and unlike damn near all of them, it has elevation changes (kinda like Monaco, my other favorite street circuit). We all know Penske money is why Belle Isle is there just as NASCAR money is why Kansas is there.

As for Montreal, that was just part of the NASCAR deal with the Nationwide series (just like the Indianapolis race weekend, which should just be dropped and never visited by any of NASCAR's top three series unless its the short track across the way). The ALMS has never raced there in its entire history.

 

[aarror]

@Müle as I said earlier, I was referring to prototype chassis not open wheel chassis. Prototypes do not go as fast as Indy cars, and the chassis is more robust, leading to better performance in a crash. If you doubt the safety of a carbon tub look up "Audi crash lemans" on YouTube and you'll see why people rate them so highly. Personally I think that a DTM hybrid shell is the best option going forward, for both Prototype and GT.

And come on @joetruckv8 , Mosport is 1000000x better than Montreal. Stirling Moss helped design it, and the layout hasn't changed since the track opened. It's a classic track, and the elevation change makes it far more challenging than the flat (and somewhat boring) Montreal circuit.

 

[Mac K]

Mosport is WAYYYYYY better than Montreal, just saying.

 

[cnd01]

Completely disagree about Long beach (mostly because you seem to hate Street circuits overall). Its is by far one of the few street circuits that doesn't follow the "corner, corner, corner, speeeed, corner, corner" crap that most have (including Belle Isle) and unlike damn near all of them, it has elevation changes (kinda like Monaco, my other favorite street circuit). We all know Penske money is why Belle Isle is there just as NASCAR money is why Kansas is there.

As for Montreal, that was just part of the NASCAR deal with the Nationwide series (just like the Indianapolis race weekend, which should just be dropped and never visited by any of NASCAR's top three series unless its the short track across the way). The ALMS has never raced there in its entire history.

F1 has Monaco because it's a historic venue that's been on the F1 schedule for years. I get that, and if Long Beach just has to be that way, then whatever. It's pretty obvious why Kansas and Belle Isle are on the schedule like you're saying.

I am very much anti-street course. They aren't safe, 99% of the time the track is the pattern you speak of, it takes for freaking ever to clean up a crash a lot of the time, the racing is that of a 150 mph parade or demolition derby, and the course itself usually has some big problems (chicane/rr tracks at Baltimore, big jump at Houston, etc.)

 

[IforceV8]

With all due respect to Marshall Pruett, BS to dp "safety".I get what he is saying about cockpit intrusion but there is no way in hell the drivers survival cage should be crushed like a beer can.I've seen the pictures from when the wreck happened and Memo is very lucky to be alive.The biggest problem with the dp is the design doesnt have enough front end crash structure to absorb the energy.Other than the LF wheel the drivers cage took the entire force of impact.The only job the cockpit has is to keep the driver safe,and this one failed badly.Replace the Red Dragon with the Mazda Lola in that accident and that driver would most likely be at Sebring.

If anybody wants to see those Red Dragon pics message me and I will give you the link.

 

[cnd01]

With all due respect to Marshall Pruett, BS to dp "safety".I get what he is saying about cockpit intrusion but there is no way in hell the drivers survival cage should be crushed like a beer can.I've seen the pictures from when the wreck happened and Memo is very lucky to be alive.The biggest problem with the dp is the design doesnt have enough front end crash structure to absorb the energy.Other than the LF wheel the drivers cage took the entire force of impact.The only job the cockpit has is to keep the driver safe,and this one failed badly.Replace the Red Dragon with the Mazda Lola in that accident and that driver would most likely be at Sebring.

If anybody wants to see those Red Dragon pics message me and I will give you the link.

I mean the guy MP was interview was only a professional who studied the crash. Don't let facts get in the way of your own opinions...

 

[joetruckv8]

Dude, Laguna Seca is on the schedule.

Not sure why Barber Motorsports Park isn't on the schedule, maybe they couldn't work something out this time around

Also, why do you refer to Montreal as the "The Good Canada Circuit"? Mosport isn't a bad track.

A combination of both is necessary.


Laguna is on the schedule. Barber wasn't "prestigious" enough to make the schedule even though crappy tracks like Long Beach, Belle Isle, and Kansas did. Montreal isn't on there for some odd reason. It dropped off the grand am schedule last year, and I don't if or when ALMS raced it. I'm disappointed that Mid-O didn't make the cut the most. I'm fine with Mosport being on the schedule. It's a blast to race on Iracing, and it's got a lot of character

I was going to say^Hate to burst you guys bubble, and I hope I'm wrong but I checked ISMA app to look at the schedule for 1 of my Irl GT6 series races conflicting that May 4th with WEC @ Spa and to my surprise it stated ONLY "The Continental Series" is racing there. I just checked ISMA app again, but this time went into the Class Entries Section and once again to my surprise I see all the Tudor Racing Divisions are listed there so Thank God 4 that!. I guess it is going down which means I can go ahead and schedule my camp spot ahead of time so I can pitch a tent and do the drunkin all night party that goes down at night there behind "Rainy Curve"

And come on @joetruckv8 , Mosport is 1000000x better than Montreal. Stirling Moss helped design it, and the layout hasn't changed since the track opened. It's a classic track, and the elevation change makes it far more challenging than the flat (and somewhat boring) Montreal circuit.[/quote]

Mosport is WAYYYYYY better than Montreal, just saying.

To the drivers driving the track maybe it is, but Montreal looks way better from a spectator view in my opinion ONLY, not in a general sense. For sure some guys like certain tracks & others don't and this is 1 of those tracks I believe. Hopefully we all can agree Kansas Speedway is a complete waste of time for us, and a waste of time & money for the Teams participating in that round. I didn't noticed Mid Ohio didn't make the cut so that's another blow but with me knowing Mazda is going down now I guess I break even there.

I'm really hoping this is some 1st year politics with this whole which tracks made the schedule and which tracks didn't because this is the best Protoype/GT thing we got going in America and increasing the tracks list would be much appreciated from all. Maybe even if this Herman Tilke Mexico F1 track that's supposedly being built could be part of the schedule too?, It would only make things that much better! 👍[/quote]

 

[Mac K]

It's not in the slightest, I've been to both as a spectator and Mosport is way better for viewing. The berms and hills are where the best seats are and you can get an unobstructed view at any corner around the track. Due to Montreal's long straights, it takes almost an hour to get to your seats at Turn 1/2/3 and the high fences and option only to sit in grandstands doesn't help either. But I think that's for another thread. I do agree with you on Kansas though

 

[joetruckv8]

It's not in the slightest, I've been to both as a spectator and Mosport is way better for viewing. The berms and hills are where the best seats are and you can get an unobstructed view at any corner around the track. Due to Montreal's long straights, it takes almost an hour to get to your seats at Turn 1/2/3 and the high fences and option only to sit in grandstands doesn't help either. But I think that's for another thread. I do agree with you on Kansas though

Lol, sorry I get what you meant there, I meant from a TV spectator view,.

 

[cnd01]

Lol, sorry I get what you meant there, I meant from a TV spectator view,.

I have to disagree on that one. There are no turns Montreal has that are fun to watch. It's chicane, chicane, chicane, chicane, hairpin, chicane, rinse and repeat. More/less a wide street circuit. Mosport has elevation change and unique corners. It's a lot cooler to watch the cars on TV go through a full speed steep downhill left and into a double apex uphill hairpin.

 

[joetruckv8]

I have to disagree on that one. There are no turns Montreal has that are fun to watch. It's chicane, chicane, chicane, chicane, hairpin, chicane, rinse and repeat. More/less a wide street circuit. Mosport has elevation change and unique corners. It's a lot cooler to watch the cars on TV go through a full speed steep downhill left and into a double apex uphill hairpin.

Yea mosport has great hills and all, but that track still looks way over due for an upgrade atleast,.

You know what tho, all & all at least there are a lot of fans of this track. I had not known until I wrote this piece here and witnessed the feedback so that's in their favor. And I will be thinking of you all when I watch that round too. 👍

 

[cnd01]

Yea mosport has great hills and all, but that track still looks way over due for an upgrade atleast,

Millions of dollars have been put into it the last few years. Hence the name change to CanadianTireMotorsportsPark (CTMP). The paddock has been completely redone as well as the bathrooms and spectator areas. I believe there now is grass runoff in turn 2. It's becoming a very modern facility

 

[Furinkazen]

Words fail me




(Magnus 2nd Sportscar video, they've just tweeted they are pulling it to change something then re uploading.)

 

[Mac K]

It's back up, my mind is totally fried now.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

 

[Mac K]

Millions of dollars have been put into it the last few years. Hence the name change to CanadianTireMotorsportsPark (CTMP). The paddock has been completely redone as well as the bathrooms and spectator areas. I believe there now is grass runoff in turn 2. It's becoming a very modern facility

It's an asphalt run off, it was grass before.

 

[RACECAR]

It's back up, my mind is totally fried now.

My brain just 404'd

 

[raven214]

It's back up, my mind is totally fried now.

Video = Fail to compute lol. They'd have a pretty sweet ride if they would just put some color on that car!

 

[Mac K]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

[Hun200kmh]

This car should be called "The Big Lebowski".