A-Spec PP590 German Touring Car Championship

[Dalone]

OK, kids have had their tea and I have had another go here.

Tried 420PP and failed, so dropped mine to 429PP and won $3,484,876....exp 336756. Still the most I think I have ever made in a single race.

This time I added 200kg ballast which brought me up to 304hp @ 1180kg.

However, while I am not calling Adrenaline a liar, I seriously doubt he did it in his claimed 6 minutes, mine are all in the 10 min time frame with best lap 2.04.4.

I would love to see a video of your race Adrenaline if you are prepared to put one up.

Meanwhile I will attempt to go lower, starting at 425PP.

Won @ 425PP $3,550,940.......exp 343,140. 293hp 1180kg. Won by 1.95 secs, after a few tries.

Best lap was 2.05 something I think. Again, over 10 mns.

Anyway, that's enough of this for today, might try tomorrow to go lower.

I would be very happy if Adrenaline would advise exactly what his tune was, anyway.

 

[Calum52]

Cargorat & Dalone.

Go get a room and argue there. this is meant to be a forum about GT5 and all the things it has. It's not a place where you 2 can bitchslap each other and claim 1 is better than the other!!!! I joined this forum about a month ago to find things out about the GAME and not watch 2 "adults" act like 5 year olds!!

On the note this thread is MEANT to be about!!!
I won this first time in my M3 GTR reduced the PP to 470 and blitzed them all by lap 4 with lots of cash to build my balance back up to the 20mill

 

[Dalone]

Hey Calum, 1st post here. Starting at the bottom and going to work your way up, aye?

Tell you what son, why don't you just mind your own business then instead of butting into other peoples?

That's a good lad.

Now when you're ready to try some racing instead of mouthing off about things which don't concern you, how about you try lowering your PP and posting some details.

After all, that's what this thread is all about.

 

[Calum52]

EXACTLY Dalone.

Firstly, I have no intentions of trying to "work my way up"! I came on this Forum to find out about GT5... not be some guy who has "worked his way up" by posting as many times as possible just so I can be noticed!!

If it's your own business, make a page of your own!! Don't put it on a PUBLIC forum where EVERYONE can see it!!

It's about GT5!!! Not about you mouthing off and trying to tell others what they should and shouldn't do!!!

Now run along little boy and give some adults a chance to read about GT5 and not how great you are!!

 

[Dalone]

"""How great you are!!""" Ha ha, is that it?

No matter, 470PP is doing real good for a newcomer.

 

[byegad]

Time to put the handbags away I think.

 

[Dalone]

Well son you're not going to like it much here because posting times etc is the norm.

Just like you posted of winning all the races with 470PP.

Maybe you can do even better?

 

[brianwong]

I honestly do not understand the SRF hate. Sure, it takes away the challenge, but horrible AI does too. I use seasonals for money grinding, if I want a challenge I will do time trials or go online.

 

[ItsAllAboutWins]

Hey Calum, 1st post here. Starting at the bottom and going to work your way up, aye?

Tell you what son, why don't you just mind your own business then instead of butting into other peoples?

That's a good lad.

Now when you're ready to try some racing instead of mouthing off about things which don't concern you, how about you try lowering your PP and posting some details.

After all, that's what this thread is all about.

Hey if you don't mind, can you add me and put a car on share? I reformatted and forgot to back up my save needing to rake up money.

 

[Musolini187]

wow 400 pp? i won with 510 pp but using the shortcut (ds3 player) on the ring. you guys actually beat the races just over 400 pp with no shortcuts? bravo.

 

[Adrenaline]

However, while I am not calling Adrenaline a liar, I seriously doubt he did it in his claimed 6 minutes, mine are all in the 10 min time frame with best lap 2.04.4.

I would be very happy if Adrenaline would advise exactly what his tune was, anyway.

Sorry, you are correct. When I was thinking back on lap times, I thought they were 1:04 lap times, so I just estimated 6 minutes, but clearly they are 2:04 lap times, my mistake.

As for the tune, I was dead serious when I said I "hacked the suspension into oblivion"
Aero: Max/Min

Suspension
0/5
max/min
max/min
max/min
min/max

1.0/.5
+.10/-.10

LSD 8/20/5

Trans was just default gears, with final increased to make the top speed 140ish.

These are the type of tuning settings that SRF promotes.
Race should be doable at a little less for someone willing to exploit SRF, but I don't like stressing the motor of my wheel that much, and I already capped my credits.

you guys actually beat the races just over 400 pp with no shortcuts? bravo.

"Anything goes" means by any means necessary. If I have to use 1 cheat, I might as well use them all.

 

[crowhop]

Has the PP levels of the DTM cars been discussed?

The Merc 190 E, maxed out at 481 hp with 980 kg and max aero (35 front, 60 rear), only has 516 PP. That's nuts. I'm sure this goes into the discussion about the updated PP, but these numbers are why such low PP levels can win.
Winning all of these with the 516 pp Merc is doable for almost anyone.

 

[Dalone]

Hey if you don't mind, can you add me and put a car on share? I reformatted and forgot to back up my save needing to rake up money.

Firing up the PS as I write. Happy to put my Merc up to loan. Send me a friend request to dlone47

You can try Adrenalins tune although the pretty ordinary one I'm using did it for me.

Car is now on share. Good luck.

And to, Musolini187
wow 400 pp? i won with 510 pp but using the shortcut (ds3 player) on the ring. you guys actually beat the races just over 400 pp with no shortcuts? bravo.

Sorry to disappoint you but one could not win at these PP's without taking some short cuts. I cut across the last big paddock as well as the l/hand corner leading to it. There are other corners which could be cut but not as safely in my opinion.

And thanks for adding your tune Adrenaline. Mine is on loan now but I'll try it later for sure. Sounds weird.

 

[ItsAllAboutWins]

Firing up the PS as I write. Happy to put my Merc up to loan. Send me a friend request to dlone47

You can try Adrenalins tune although the pretty ordinary one I'm using did it for me.

Car is now on share. Good luck.

And to, Musolini187
wow 400 pp? i won with 510 pp but using the shortcut (ds3 player) on the ring. you guys actually beat the races just over 400 pp with no shortcuts? bravo.

Sorry to disappoint you but one could not win at these PP's without taking some short cuts. I cut across the last big paddock as well as the l/hand corner leading to it. There are other corners which could be cut but not as safely in my opinion.

And thanks for adding your tune Adrenaline. Mine is on loan now but I'll try it later for sure. Sounds weird.

Getting on in about 15. Will send a fr ASAP. Thanks!

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

you guys actually beat the races just over 400 pp with no shortcuts? bravo.

Sorry to disappoint you but one could not win at these PP's without taking some short cuts.

I reckon on Cape Ring it could be possible for the best Alien, I might give 410PP a try later on and see if I can do that, as 430PP was no issue at all with a non-optimal setup.

 

[Dalone]

OK, was intrigued by Adrenalin's tune so checked my garage for another car to use, and hey presto, I found I had another Merc 190E '92.
So slapped together roughly what I could remember of my first cars tune, no aero, 200kg LSD around 6-12-6 and height -10/ +7, springs 18.7/16.8, cam 2.1/ 1.2, toe -.05/ -.02. Didn't change the rest, don't understand it.

Had a couple of laps with the above tune for comparison with Adrena's tune next.
Did my fastest lap, 2.02.6 as well as a 2.03.2, not to mention a horrible 2.08.
That was at 429PP 303hp, 1180kg 66.2% power, $3.4mil.

Anyway, now for Adrena's tune.

Had a couple of laps with it (at 429PP) and won without any trouble, best lap was 2.03.4, most low 2.04's.
The turn in is severe and I would drastically lower the front aero as I don't think it's necessary, for my driving style that is.

I'll try it at 420PP before I leave this race.

Yep, won at 420 with Adrena's tune, by over 2 secs. $3,633,520....exp 351,120.

I think his tune works better at the lower PP, so will try it lower.

Had a go at 415PP but never completed a race, too many mistakes, and sore thumbs. May try later.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

Tried and failed at 410PP on Cape Ring, can get within a second of the leader, but the AI are truly F'ing awful, what the hell happened to PD's programming? So I instead have a 412PP replay saved, and even though that run didn't have as much 'interaction' with the AI as my other runs, you can still see how shockingly ridiculous it is.

I really do think I could manage this at 400PP if the AI didn't go to every gawd forsaken effort to block, brake check, ram and actually swerve left and right across the track as you approach just to cause a time killing collision. Mega thumbs down to Polyphony Digital and their recent antics, I'll think long and hard about buying GT6, I really do feel like the company has taken a large high dump on this franchise 👎👎👎

I'll upload the replay tomorrow, along with the setup.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Mercedes-Benz 190 E 2.5-16 Evolution II Touring Car '92
395hp, 1000kg, 480PP
DS3, FPS Freek stick extenders, ABS 1, SRF forced on in this seasonal, all other aids off.

This car was built for the 590PP German Touring Car Seasonal. These races are far too easy, even at 500PP. I built the tune, so decided to post it. Use this to earn yourself some serious credits.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=8135581#post8135581

 

[IvanOffalich]

It's kinda weird to have to purposely attempt to cripple your car into oblivion just to get a challenge out of this.

Maybe the PP limit was a typo and it's supposed to be 490.

 

[Adrenaline]

OK, was intrigued by Adrenalin's tune

It's really not a tune, just a shot in the dark, to force the car to oversteer, and let SRF take care of the rest. Overdrive every corner entry, pitch the car sideways and slam the gas pedal. That's what SRF allows you to do.

 

[IvanOffalich]

I'll say any posts that use the phrase "too easy" or indicate how many credits or low pp they used are more than a hint. These races seem OK from a challenge level, for regular DS3 users.

DS3 does not cripple someone's gameplay, which is what you seem to be implying. Using a DS3 does not require driving aids or additional "help" from the game to compensate. There is nothing in this game that can't be done with a DS3. I'm unsure of where that myth came from, but I've heard it since the GT3 days.

Call me "superior", but I just tried this event, with my DS3, with a car that is is 55 PP under the limit that I bought from the UCD (didn't even change the oil), and with the exception of the Eifel track, I'm winning them easily on the first attempt. The Eifel one was only because I drove into the grass not knowing the track yet. I was on the bumper of the first place car when he crossed the finish line. Edit to add: I wasn't even driving that well because this Event is far from interesting or challenging. I drove very sloppy laps and still won on the first attempt. I even drove off the road on Nurburgring and still got first place.

There is no challenge in this unless a person seriously and drastically lowers the HP and adds a bunch of weight to the car. People are lowering their cars by over 150 PP, just to get any kind of challenge out of this.

There's something seriously wrong with this event and I'm not sure that it's only the SRF.

 

[Dalone]

A quick couple of points Ivan.

""There is no challenge in this unless a person seriously and drastically lowers the HP and adds a bunch of weight to the car. People are lowering their cars by over 150 PP, just to get any kind of challenge out of this.""

There is little challenge in taking a leisurely stroll over a slight rise, although many simply enjoy doing exactly that.

Those who want a challenge climb ever more difficult mountains. And we would be poorer if those type of people were not amongst us.

In these Seasonals though there is also the money factor, as many have stated. So one can make the challenge as easy or as difficult as one wishes, which is exactly how it was designed.
I came into it with a full bank account but enjoy the lower PP challenges, and as you point out, lowering the PP drastically can present a serious challenge, to, by the way, even the most experienced players.

Regarding using a hand controller generally, buttons in my case, one is at a serious disadvantage in some areas when compared to wheel users.

Throttle control is one, but the one I often find is the most disadvantageous, is steering.

This occurs during hard and fast cornering when the finger must be lifted from the turn right button and moved across onto the turn left button.

I noticed many times in the last TT (C6) how I could lose control sometimes upon switching from the right button to the left button or vice versa.

With a wheel one could I expect, maintain suitable pressure on the (front) steering wheels constantly, which, as in real life, is absolutely essential for correct driving.

 

[Adrenaline]

Every other week, DoodleMonopoly runs his TT's with the DS3 and finishes top 10-50. Is it easier on a wheel? Probably, but clearly it's achievable on a controller.

Edit: Time Trial No. 55
#1: 8th, 37th, and 39th all on DS3.
#2: 16th, 30th and 34th all on DS3.

Edit2: What's the difference between 'pad' and 'stick', I might be making a fool of myself.

 

[nowayback]

some people are truely gifted with a ds3 but i think on an average the wheel is easier and more accurate. As Dalone said throttle and steering esp. I use ds3, my friend has a wheel, the few times I have used it, I can see the difference. They both need a lot of practice.

 

[Dalone]

Every other week, DoodleMonopoly runs his TT's with the DS3 and finishes top 10-50. Is it easier on a wheel? Probably, but clearly it's achievable on a controller.

Edit: Time Trial No. 55
#1: 8th, 37th, and 39th all on DS3.
#2: 16th, 30th and 34th all on DS3.

Edit2: What's the difference between 'pad' and 'stick', I might be making a fool of myself.

Pad and stick.

I think pad means the controller, DS3 (Dual Shock3) and that stick means the push forward and pull back/and push left push right controls, as against the buttons.

I accept that some people excel using the DS3, but clearly it is better (for the reasons I stated, and there are likely others) to use the wheel.

The fact that the vast majority of top players use them speaks for itself.

And Stotty said something recently which confirmed that, at least in my mind.

Here it is, page 15 NASCAR @ Spa...Feb 12 2013.

Beevster said;
I know i wont gain 2 seconds, but you need to remember I'm using a controller so my consistency for every lap is not as good, I still know when i hook up a good corner/lap and i feel I'm slower on the acceleration out of a corner and top speed on the final straight mainly due to the lack of acceleration from the hairpin.

If you load AMo's ghost you will find exactly this. in fact i would say my setup is very slightly faster in the corner, which gives me a tiny gain for the lack of smoothness i can produce with a control stick. It could just be my smothness into full acceleration with the button that's my downfall and im getting too much wheel slip which can be reduced with a peddle.

Anyway Im happy with my time and set-up its almost perfect for me, i don't think i can improve my time much more, maybe .300/.200 max

Stotty
It was your comment 'I can match the top guys until the hairpin' that made me think you were a wheel user... and quite a fast one if you can hold Amo!

I'll have a look at Amo's lap tonight and see if it is just a lack of raw speed that's holding my car back

I would say have a think about if you are really quicker than Amo in the corners though... if you're quicker on entry that's probably because you're pushing the front a bit too hard... which feels fast, but stops you exiting as quickly. Amo is generally VERY fast everywhere, and it's unusal for all except a handful of the very fastest drivers (and I don't include myself in that group) to have an edge over him anywhere!

 

[Argon]

What's the difference between 'pad' and 'stick'.....

Pad= steering from the controllers D-pad, Stick= steering from the controllers analogue stick.

 

[IvanOffalich]

A quick couple of points Ivan.

""There is no challenge in this unless a person seriously and drastically lowers the HP and adds a bunch of weight to the car. People are lowering their cars by over 150 PP, just to get any kind of challenge out of this.""

There is little challenge in taking a leisurely stroll over a slight rise, although many simply enjoy doing exactly that.

Those who want a challenge climb ever more difficult mountains. And we would be poorer if those type of people were not amongst us.

In these Seasonals though there is also the money factor, as many have stated. So one can make the challenge as easy or as difficult as one wishes, which is exactly how it was designed.
I came into it with a full bank account but enjoy the lower PP challenges, and as you point out, lowering the PP drastically can present a serious challenge, to, by the way, even the most experienced players.

I never used the word "serious" in conjunction with "challenge", just to be clear. I did use the word "drastically" because it takes much change to even get a little challenge out of this.

To quote the race event description:

"This is an expert level race. . ."

It is not. Even the amateurs are finding this to be simplistic.

It also does not say: "Here is an easy way of making money." Which is kinda what you're claiming it is designed to be. Maybe if the description wasn't so completely and utterly inaccurate, it wouldn't be so irritating. Then again, it probably still would be.

I enjoy quiet walks myself, but when I play games, it's to have a challenge or at least some fun. If I don't want a challenge, I watch a movie or something on TV that I can vicariously enjoy. If a game is too easy, it's boring and repetitive.

As for the DS3 comments, which I snipped for brevity, and since what I am going to say next doesn't really need your quote; I would seriously suggest getting used to driving with the Analog sticks, at least try it for a few days. You'll find that you can get a lot of finesse out of the DS3 with them.

Is it as precise as a gas pedal or a wheel? I doubt it. A pedal would have a much larger degree of register points. The same would apply to the wheel.

I've been using the analog sticks since the original GT game and they work quite well. I'm nowhere near the level of DoodleMonopoly, but I don't feel that I'm missing out on anything really.

I have a wheel, but it's inconvenient to set up near my TV right now. It's much easier just to grab the DS3 and play.

 

[Dalone]

I expect that many of the top players have a dedicated room/area for gaming with a TV etc etc which is always ready to play. Although reading some comments here though show that a lot of good players don't have such luck.

I originally started using the sticks, GT1 (Gran Tourismo) however somewhere along the way changed to the buttons and could/would not consider changing back after all this time.

I think the sticks are more like a wheel than the buttons, as you say, as you do not have to lift your hand off to do anything and there is more travel (positions) for the accelerator movement. But too late for me now even though I sometimes use them when my thumbs get too sore in long races.

And even though one day I might obtain a wheel set up, I, like yourself, enjoy the convenience of the controllers.

 

[Motor City Hami]

It's kinda weird to have to purposely attempt to cripple your car into oblivion just to get a challenge out of this.

Maybe the PP limit was a typo and it's supposed to be 490.

Not a typo. I drove the Red Bull Audi tuned to 550PP in the first event and was way ahead. So I looked for the German Touring Car with the lowest PP level (Merc 190E) and the most narrow wheel width (lower handling) and came back at 500PP. It was still really easy. I only stopped at 480 because that is where the car fell naturally without using turbos or the power limiter. I could run this over and over to try for even lower PP numbers, but what's the point. I had more fun with the Miata 380PP seasonal using 335PP cars.

My absolute favorite set of events in GT4 was the European event, DEUTSCHE TOURING CAR MEISTERSHAFT. Please bring back some form of this event (not all tracks in GT5). This one just doesn't measure up.

 

[Stotty]

For those struggling to find space for a rig…

I don’t have the space for a separate gaming area and TV – though I did get Sky multiroom so my wife has all the channels in our bedroom for those times she’s happy to go and sit up there!

I have a G27 and a wheelstand pro that folds up and is stashed away… or goes in the boot of the car when I’m working away from home. For anyone without the space for a proper rig, I can thoroughly recommend the wheelstand pro… it provides a solid base and stores away neatly when not in use

For over a year I never bothered even setting up my wheel… just picking up the DS3 and quickly ran the seasonal TT and drift trials on a fortnightly basis whilst semi-horizontal on the couch… even now, when I only have 30 mins or I just CBA to get the wheel out I’ll just do a bit of drifting with the DS3.