"Daily" Race Discussion [Archive]

[MaxAttack]

Just clean raced La Sarthe in the Hyundai. Felt very vulnerable in straights but super comfy through curves and chicanes. Pretty nice way round to have things. Nice NA car, can get on the throttle pretty early and hard. Went from 8th to 4th, only overtake was right after the rolling start, the rest penalties.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

The only dirty part was your manipulation of the penalty system for your mistake. Because make no doubt about it, intentionally giving him a penalty places you in the wrong. He wasn’t driving dirty and didn’t deserve what you did. And it was a mistake, you misjudged your opponents braking zone.

That's nonsense, you're applying inside corner etiquette to the outer edge of the track. Clearly Sven didn't give the penalty on purpose. What he did do was to put himself in a defensively safe position where the penalty system could protect him with the threat of consequences. This is no different than late braking and riding the outside edge of turn one, on a crowded start, so that you can avoid getting rammed off by threatening an off track penalty on all of the apex hogs.

Am I dirty driver because I retain a half car overlap through a corner on an aggressive driver so that they'll punt themselves to death if they decide to try and slam the door on me? No, I'm a smart defensive driver who is placing himself in a defensively beneficial situation.

 

[Famine]

You specifically noted GTNorthamerica and GTEnglishspeakingcountries, implying that only those who fit that description are guilty of negatively stereotyping others. That is how I read it.

How I mean it is "implying" - and that's notably hard to do in text. How you read it it "inferring" - and that's notably easy to do from text.

As I happen to be an English speaking North American, I find that bias disturbing coming from an administrator who is apparently responsible for moderating said bias.

I'm also an English-speaking person, albeit European (UK). The guy in charge is an English-speaking North American (US). The other administrator is an English-speaking North American (Canada). As you can see, you've chosen to infer a bias from an administrator against themselves and the entire administration team (and most of the moderation team).

That would be quite disturbing, but is patently untrue. It'd have been quite difficult for me to be a site admin for however long it's been (ten years? I don't recall) if I was biased against myself, other staff and the site owner.


My post was a reminder that, despite the person who I was responding to seeming to think GTPlanet had changed its rules to no longer permit the rather casual "people from [nation/region] are dirty/cheats" nonsense which we've never permitted, GTPlanet does not exist solely for the benefit of the overwhelming majority of Anglophonic and North American members (the poster in question being Canadian), rather we count the nations who these posters are choosing to abuse among our readership and membership.

It followed on from this post, in which I reminded users - after deleting such a post from a German member (which, naturally, you can't see) - about this for a second time, linking back to a post from a previous version of this thread in which I reminded users, quoting Austrian and Dutch members (which you can see), not to do this.

The concept that I think only Anglophonic, North American users do this is thus not an apt thing to infer.

 

[sturk0167]

Sorry but in this scenario you deserve the penalty not him.

It's funny how the lousy penalty system makes us discuss who should get the penalty, but realistically, the answer is nobody. Neither car was even dented.

The game needs more tracks with gravel or grass run off. It leaves it less up to the penalty system as theres a natural disincentive to breach track limits.

Right. That's why Willow Springs doesn't need track limits. The desert will punish you for off-track excursions. I like that.

 

[Redsea666]

Only had time for two practice/qualy laps in the C7 last night. Lopped 3 seconds off to 4:05 with lots of room for more. Had a decent race, too- only into the wall once!!! Luckily no salt-on-the-wound 5 second penalty and still finished 7th. I'll probably get the Aston tonight and see how that feels. The 'Vette definitely feels less heavy cornering than the Ford GT, but certainly not as fast. If I had a lot more time I think I'd really learn to like the Ford.

 

[NevilleNobody]

Geeeee the driving in race C is atrocious. I am just relentlessly punted by people who are not racing, they push past, use me to brake, nerf me off ... like guys, what are you doing?? This is mostly SR A too. It was like no one was interested in racing, just driving like I wasn't there.

Crazy thing to say but does anyone else feel the grip in race C is completely random for the first lap or two?? With fresh rubber and all I just got sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much understeer at random corner, like the car WOULD NOT turn in. I was turning better laps on lap 6 than lap 2, made no sense.

 

[gtpierre]

The only dirty part was your manipulation of the penalty system for your mistake. Because make no doubt about it, intentionally giving him a penalty places you in the wrong. He wasn’t driving dirty and didn’t deserve what you did. And it was a mistake, you misjudged your opponents braking zone. You are the car attempting to pass, the




It’s not a matter of you braking too late. But you need to anticipate what the driver ahead of you is going to do. His line might be totally different from yours, his braking zone early etc. and he could still set the same lap time despite these differences. It’s your job to find a weakness and get past him cleanly, not complain that his line is different.

For instance Race A this week, I’m a lot less aggressive in turn 1 and the final turn than most, I prefer to brake a little earlier to set the car and carry greater speed. I’m still watching my mirror like a hawk on lap 1-2 when guys are close, but if they make a late attempt, depending on the corner there might not be much I can do.




Sorry but in this scenario you deserve the penalty not him.

I think we both misunderstood what he meant. He didn't actively look for a penalty whilst driving outside, And he didn't recommend doing so. he proposed a strategy to avoid crashing in early braker at Mulsanne based on an example in which it happened to trigger a penalty.


I still don't think the Porsche deserved the penalty as he stuck to the racing line. I guess one could say he could have moved a bit more on his left once he saw Sven on his radar.

 

[watto79]

It's funny how the lousy penalty system makes us discuss who should get the penalty, but realistically, the answer is nobody. Neither car was even dented.

The voice of reason! If this happened in real life nobody would be talking about penalising either driver.

Right. That's why Willow Springs doesn't need track limits. The desert will punish you for off-track excursions. I like that.

I like that too. Brands Hatch and Suzuka are similar in that exceeding track limits is just not an option. This forces much cleaner driving (for the most part) in my opinion. We need more tracks like these.

Geeeee the driving in race C is atrocious. I am just relentlessly punted by people who are not racing, they push past, use me to brake, nerf me off ... like guys, what are you doing?? This is mostly SR A too. It was like no one was interested in racing, just driving like I wasn't there.

Crazy thing to say but does anyone else feel the grip in race C is completely random for the first lap or two?? With fresh rubber and all I just got sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much understeer at random corner, like the car WOULD NOT turn in. I was turning better laps on lap 6 than lap 2, made no sense.

This is likely the dirty air reducing downforce. The first few laps everyone is bunched up and you're normally closely following someone else who will be disrupting your airflow. The SF cars in particular are VERY reliant on downforce for their cornering ability so when this is disrupted the car will understeer. This is particular notable around Autopolis because of the sheer number of corners.

 

[MaxAttack]

Followed up with 2 more race Bs, first off in the GTR which I didn't get along with. Ate wall at tetre rouge and got decimated on the straights, then I went in the gravel and had gone from 4th to about dead last. MAXIMUM ATTACK and le sarthe track limits got me back to 8th. Won't be using the GTR here again, as lovely as the sounds the clutch makes are.

the corvette felt about half the weight afterwards. 2nd on the grid again, f1s everywhere of course. Chap in first disappeared. My first challenger ruined his own race sliding around one of the tight ones. Then spent the second lap having the most glorious battle with an Italian chap in the Porsche. Good manners to the full, we were trading passes all the way with only one minor touch at Porsche which made no difference. Of course, the racing had to be decided by track limits rather than our skill so I was handed a rather dubious .5 through one of the curves. He passed me as I was decelerated at the final chicanes, which I had been navigating very easily in the Corvette. I feel a bit like I deserved my second place but it was a fun one nonetheless.

Probably need a slightly faster f1gtr lap to work from...

 

[Redsea666]

Followed up with 2 more race Bs, first off in the GTR which I didn't get along with. Ate wall at tetre rouge and got decimated on the straights, then I went in the gravel and had gone from 4th to about dead last. MAXIMUM ATTACK and le sarthe track limits got me back to 8th. Won't be using the GTR here again, as lovely as the sounds the clutch makes are.

the corvette felt about half the weight afterwards. 2nd on the grid again, f1s everywhere of course. Chap in first disappeared. My first challenger ruined his own race sliding around one of the tight ones. Then spent the second lap having the most glorious battle with an Italian chap in the Porsche. Good manners to the full, we were trading passes all the way with only one minor touch at Porsche which made no difference. Of course, the racing had to be decided by track limits rather than our skill so I was handed a rather dubious .5 through one of the curves. He passed me as I was decelerated at the final chicanes, which I had been navigating very easily in the Corvette. I feel a bit like I deserved my second place but it was a fun one nonetheless.

Probably need a slightly faster f1gtr lap to work from...

The Corvette just sails right through the... AHEM... Corvette curves.

 

[Veinz]

Is dirty air actually a thing in GTS? I didn’t think this game accounted for that.

 

[Tea_Leaves]

Geeeee the driving in race C is atrocious. I am just relentlessly punted by people who are not racing, they push past, use me to brake, nerf me off ... like guys, what are you doing?? This is mostly SR A too.

Same for me at SR S. The first race I've quit in months and I'm usually one to stick out races. Unlikely I'll touch it again for the rest of the week.

 

[MortosDer]

Been running race C a lot. I had 25.9 which usually means front row.
Went from 31k Dr to 44.5k, I'll keep spamming that race till a+.
After so much racing I gave quali another shot and this happened:


I managed to bring it down to 25.248 but forgot to save that lap. Top ten is less than three tenths of a second away! SF cars have been kind to me

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I think we both misunderstood what he meant. He didn't actively look for a penalty whilst driving outside, And he didn't recommend doing so. he proposed a strategy to avoid crashing in early braker at Mulsanne based on an example in which it happened to trigger a penalty.

I still don't think the Porsche deserved the penalty as he stuck to the racing line. I guess one could say he could have moved a bit more on his left once he saw Sven on his radar.

It's funny how the lousy penalty system makes us discuss who should get the penalty, but realistically, the answer is nobody. Neither car was even dented.

Right. That's why Willow Springs doesn't need track limits. The desert will punish you for off-track excursions. I like that.

Yep, this is one of those times where the penalty system only throws fuel on the fire. I was surprised he got 5 seconds for that, totally undeserved as it did not affect either of us, only saved me from a 'shortcut' penalty. Pointless penalty as well as I simply draft passed him on the way to Indianapolis which was my plan all along, he simply surprised me by braking so early in the Porsche while having clear road ahead. If he had traffic ahead or was in a McLaren F1 or other crappy brakes car I would have started braking a lot sooner. Overtaking there is pointless with the run to Indianapolis coming up.

The problem is the game not recognizing when using run offs is necessary to avoid contact. And while a track like Big Willow stops people from going outside track limits, early brakers there usually get bumped off. Plus I wonder what trouble a penalty zone is going to cause on Big Willow

Early braking is always a touchy subject. With minimal client to client lag, display lag and avg reaction time of 250ms, say 300ms together, at 275 kph you travel another 23 meters before you can even press the brakes while checking the ahead car's brake lights like a hawk. The only thing you can do is check what the car ahead has ahead of him, what car he is in and predict where he will start braking and brake out of his slipstream. It's only 2 laps so this race doesn't have the luxury to study each driver's behavior, plus he seemed to know his braking at the chicane before. Racing is more about planning ahead than reacting. https://www.humanbenchmark.com/tests/reactiontime

 

[ASH32]

Is dirty air actually a thing in GTS? I didn’t think this game accounted for that.

Yes. Try running from the back in the SF at Autopolis and you'll see. Once you get to the midfield guy who does not drive off the track you can lose at least 2 seconds a lap if you can't get close enough to them to use the overtake button and go past.

Also even ghosted cars still cause this, so even at the front you can catch a back marker and experience it, well before they go off track anyway.

 

[WaikeCU]

Is dirty air actually a thing in GTS? I didn’t think this game accounted for that.

Definitely! SF19 be sure to have wake. Try following around another car through the essess of Suzuka, you'll notice massive understeer.

 

[Veinz]

Definitely! SF19 be sure to have wake. Try following around another car through the essess of Suzuka, you'll notice massive understeer.

Tbh I didn’t think the physics in this game were that advanced. Using your example, I thought it was just the extra speed from the slipstream making the car react differently.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Next week is gonna be fun. Gr. 4 at DT Gardens and Gr. 3 at Monza. I'll be on Race B if anyone needs me.

 

[NevilleNobody]

This is likely the dirty air reducing downforce. The first few laps everyone is bunched up and you're normally closely following someone else who will be disrupting your airflow. The SF cars in particular are VERY reliant on downforce for their cornering ability so when this is disrupted the car will understeer. This is particular notable around Autopolis because of the sheer number of corners.

I suspect you are right, man, so many times i rolled off the track.

 

[O604]

Next week races:
A: Tsukuba Circuit - N300 [I think the Greddy Fugu]
B: Dragon Trail Gardens - Gr. 4
C: Monza - Gr. 3

I like race B and C. These will be my favourites.

Race selection has been good lately. 👍

I hope Race A is a selection like Suzuka East N300 was a few weeks ago.

 

[MaxAttack]

Race selection has been good lately. 👍

I hope Race A is a selection like Suzuka East N300 was a few weeks ago.

I don't wanna get too excited but I hope so... Real Hot Version hours

 

[NevilleNobody]

Tbh I didn’t think the physics in this game were that advanced. Using your example, I thought it was just the extra speed from the slipstream making the car react differently.

It's either lag affecting grip with so many cars in the frame or dirty air because even in slow corners the car just WOULD NOT TURN IN.

And you people doing 25's....jebus. I did a 28.1 and it was hands down the absolute hairiest qualy lap i have even done, just ragged edge stuff.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

The SF is horrible in dirty air but even if you start on pole there is something else, my theory is that it takes a couple of laps to get the tyres to a working temperature. Outlaps feel the same.

 

[JakeJortles]

Had a couple of good fights in Race B, with generally clean and consistent racing.

My quali time is a 3:55.8 with the McLaren, which was enough for 2x P4 & 1x P5, which yielded a P8 (dropped it in the final run through the Ford chicane and got reset despite going very slowly to avoid a penalty and being at most a couple of metres off the track), a P3, and a P4 finish respectively. DR went up by a good 1700 points, which brings me almost back up to my all-time high. I had a couple of good fights with a fellow German in a GT-R, and I noticed that the McLaren basically negated the slipstream speed advantage of the GT-R behind as soon as they pulled out.

I’m very reluctant about trying Race C. As good as I was with the SF19 at Suzuka, I have yet to gel with the SF19/Autopolis combination. Quali time is down to 1:25.6, but unlike my Le Mans time, here I actually feel like I’m not pushing the car to the maximum.

 

[NevilleNobody]

25.6 too slow to race?? You're insane, race already.

 

[Shearzy]

Geeeee the driving in race C is atrocious. I am just relentlessly punted by people who are not racing, they push past, use me to brake, nerf me off ... like guys, what are you doing?? This is mostly SR A too. It was like no one was interested in racing, just driving like I wasn't there.

Crazy thing to say but does anyone else feel the grip in race C is completely random for the first lap or two?? With fresh rubber and all I just got sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much understeer at random corner, like the car WOULD NOT turn in. I was turning better laps on lap 6 than lap 2, made no sense.

Oh for sure!! I was high but I knew something was a foot. Also..right after lap 5, fronts just die

 

[JakeJortles]

25.6 too slow to race?? You're insane, race already.

I guess another part of the problem is that my quota of mistakes is much higher than normal – usually I’m able to churn out laps with little to no problem, but at Autopolis I had to abort at least 50% of my laps. Bloody annoying, and not exactly good for my confidence. I know things are different in a racing situation, but still… not really comfortable. Might do a couple of laps later with the express purpose of finding a good rhythm, rather than ultimate lap time.

 

[Groundfish]

The SF is horrible in dirty air but even if you start on pole there is something else, my theory is that it takes a couple of laps to get the tyres to a working temperature. Outlaps feel the same.

I noticed at Suzuka that if you scrub in the tires most of lap one the grip gets excellent the following laps.

I haven’t been driving it though. I’ve been trying and failing to improve my A q time.
That car is real fun. You can go on a wild ride if you drive it rough or you can smooth it and wind in the torque, but it requires pretty serious Kung fu to nail a whole lap. My idea thus far is risk death and skip it into t1 and pin and pray...gaining time and then just trying to hang in there through the hairpin and next left losing time...this requires perfection of exit speed though on the last bend. That last turn is SICK. You can gain much speed there, but it requires huevos...
The sequence of inputs has to be right in that car to keep it from ‘snapping out’ of traction while cornering hard.
The number one lap is burly. That fella is gooooood.
I’m trying to get my time up, but so far no luck...Gotta keep fighting...

 

[Fast_Times_75]

How I mean it is "implying" - and that's notably hard to do in text. How you read it it "inferring" - and that's notably easy to do from text.

I'm also an English-speaking person, albeit European (UK). The guy in charge is an English-speaking North American (US). The other administrator is an English-speaking North American (Canada). As you can see, you've chosen to infer a bias from an administrator against themselves and the entire administration team (and most of the moderation team).

That would be quite disturbing, but is patently untrue. It'd have been quite difficult for me to be a site admin for however long it's been (ten years? I don't recall) if I was biased against myself, other staff and the site owner.


My post was a reminder that, despite the person who I was responding to seeming to think GTPlanet had changed its rules to no longer permit the rather casual "people from [nation/region] are dirty/cheats" nonsense which we've never permitted, GTPlanet does not exist solely for the benefit of the overwhelming majority of Anglophonic and North American members (the poster in question being Canadian), rather we count the nations who these posters are choosing to abuse among our readership and membership.

It followed on from this post, in which I reminded users - after deleting such a post from a German member (which, naturally, you can't see) - about this for a second time, linking back to a post from a previous version of this thread in which I reminded users, quoting Austrian and Dutch members (which you can see), not to do this.

The concept that I think only Anglophonic, North American users do this is thus not an apt thing to infer.

I believe that you believe what you're saying. I also believe your examples of "GTEnglishspeakingcountries" and GTNorthamericans" are insulting to me as you didn't say "GTJapanese" or "GTGermanspeakingpeople", only Englishspeaking/Northamerican. I think it was unnecessary, and this type of thing is exactly what promotes negative stereotyping, in this case directed at English speaking North Americans.

Your own ethnicity has no bearing on your bias, but policies at GTPlanet might.

I've been subject to discrimination and prejudice my whole life due to my race/gender/religion/region/age in the real world. I do not need or want to be subjected to it in pursuit of pleasure from a video game.

Thanks for responding.

 

[Famine]

I believe that you believe what you're saying.

I don't operate on a belief-based system. You can find more on this in the site's Opinions & Current Events forum.

I also believe your examples of "GTEnglishspeakingcountries" and GTNorthamericans" are insulting to me as you didn't say "GTJapanese" or "GTGermanspeakingpeople", only Englishspeaking/Northamerican.

You, as with every other human, are free to take offence at anything, for any reason and at any time. No-one can control what it is that anyone else finds offensive - it's entirely their call. It's also thus not beholden on anyone not to cause offence, because it's impossible. There's certainly a line where something can be written offensively - for instance referring to a person by a pejorative term - but that doesn't need the reader to infer it.

In this instance you've chosen to infer an offensive meaning from something that was not written offensively. That's absolutely your call, but it does not make the initial comment offensive.

I think it was unnecessary, and this type of thing is exactly what promotes negative stereotyping, in this case directed at English speaking North Americans.

You've inferred that meaning where it is not appropriate to do so. Also this site is owned and run by English-speaking North Americans, as I said.

Personally I've been taken as being American on several occasions even on this site where my nationality is literally displayed on every post. That's likely because my contributions to the Opinions & Current Events forum might appear more American than British on topics like gun control and liberty.

Your own ethnicity has no bearing on your bias

Which I don't have...

but policies at GTPlanet might.

... which you can find here: https://www.gtplanet.net/aup/

I've been subject to discrimination and prejudice my whole life due to my race/gender/religion/region/age in the real world.

So has everyone else. It's certainly more prevalent against certain races, genders, religions, ages, regions, sexualities, jobs, classes, castes, hobbies, and so on, but everyone has been discriminated against. You can find more on this in the site's Opinions & Current Events forum too.

I do not need or want to be subjected to it in pursuit of pleasure from a video game.

Nor does anyone, hence the whole point of all three of the posts wherein I remind users not to insult other nationalities or groups.

And the site's Acceptable Use Policy.


I think at this point this thread would be best served if you addressed any further queries or concerns on this topic to my Conversation inbox - or to @Jordan, the (US native) site owner.