I don't know if there is a new movement of some sort in regards to removing, forbidding, or erasing religion from society but to me it all appears simply as communism wearing a new dress. I see this essentially as a political fight more then a discussion of the existence of god. Not to say the entire thread is subject to that statement, but it is an important part of it so I felt compelled to compile and post the following:
The Attitude of the Workers Party towards religion, May, 1909 (Lenon)
Marx said, Religion is the opium of the people and this postulate is the corner stone of the whole philosophy of Marxism with regard to religion. Marxism always regarded all modern religions and churches, and every kind of religious organization as instruments of that bourgeois reaction whose aim is to defend exploitation, stupefying the working class.
Communist Party of the Soviet Union: 1919 programme
to secure the complete break up of the union between the exploiting classes and the organizations for religious propaganda, thus co-operating in the actual deliverance of the working masses from religious prejudices, and organizing the most extensive propaganda of scientific enlightenment and anti-religious conceptions. While doing this, we must carefully avoid anything that can wound the feelings of believers, for such a method can only lead to the strengthening of religious fanaticism.
Nikolai Bukharin & Evgenii Preobrazhensky: The ABC of Communism (1920)
For this reason, the mere fact of the organization and strengthening of the socialist system, will deal religion an irrecoverable blow. THE TRANSITION FROM SOCIALISM TO COMMUNISM, THE TRANSITION FROM THE SOCIETY WHICH MAKES AN END OF CAPITALISM TO THE SOCIETY WHICH IS COMPLETELY FREED FROM ALL TRACES OF CLASS DIVISION AND CLASS STRUGGLE, WILL BRING ABOUT THE NATURAL DEATH OF ALL RELIGION AND ALL SUPERSTITION.
Off course it is well known the church's abuse of power, oppression, and killings of non believers, no one should take those things lightly or pass them off in any way. I don't believe however the answer should have been mass executions, work camps, and prisons as the Russians used for example. This idea of eliminating all religion and belief in god in order to advance society is not a good one nor is it necessary, the idea that capitalism relies heavily on the populous being tricked by religion and held in poverty is false. The political and social struggles for equality are closely intertwined with the role of religion and it will always be that way, but it doesn't mean religion is a major obstacle for any one mans success or the success of a society. As an American believing in both capitalism and god I am of course all for separation of church and state but most importantly the right of man's possession of his conscience. I know I will be slammed for further quoting of the founding fathers but it's important to me, and maybe important to those wanting to understand the mind set of many in this country. I am not alone by any stretch in these maters I can assure everyone. I don't have any direct association with any organized church, I don't actively participate in any political parties, I have no association with any fraternal organizations etc. I'm simply an American who loves his country.
James Madison: Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments (1785)
We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, that Religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the Manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence. The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right. It is unalienable; because the opinions of men, depending only on the evidence contemplated by their own minds, cannot follow the dictates of other men: It is unalienable also; because what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the Creator. It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage, and such only, as he believes to be acceptable to him. This duty is precedent both in order of time and degree of obligation, to the claims of Civil Society. Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governor of the Universe: And if a member of Civil Society, who enters into any subordinate Association, must always do it with a reservation of his duty to the general authority; much more must every man who becomes a member of any particular Civil Society, do it with a saving of his allegiance to the Universal Sovereign. We maintain therefore that in matters of Religion, no mans right is abridged by the institution of Civil Society, and that Religion is wholly exempt from its cognizance. True it is, that no other rule exists, by which any question which may divide a Society, can be ultimately determined, but the will of the majority; but it is also true, that the majority may trespass on the rights of the minority.
In my opinion all these 'modern' assertions that science is gaining so much ground that anyone who considers a higher power or creator or any other meta-physical entity or belief should be labeled insane or a lunatic is completely unwarranted and unwanted by a vast majority of the united states. To infer that a believer of god should be dismissed and not allowed participation in maters of importance to the society should be insulting to everyone. There is no reason or need to pry so deeply into a man's personal life, we can already be denied jobs, housing, freedom, driving privilege etc based on other invasive probes such as accumulated wealth or lack of, what internet sites you visit, who you have done business with in the past and many other things. The fact any troubles one may have had in the past follows him forever regardless whether he paid restitution or other debts to society, batteries of physical tests and known physical illness, abstract I.Q. tests, labels of mental illness, addictions, I could go on and on. Of course some amount of background is required for jobs of sensitivities, leadership, or positions where great dangers are present to the self or others. If we keep denying the self for the better of the whole we'll cease to live meaningful lives.
If science leads to enough fact to make the idea of god ridiculous or unappealing to the populous, then the society will simply stop believing on there own. There is no need for persecution or ridicule as it most certainly does more harm then good to the whole. As far as all the dissection and bashing of the bible is concerned, the book in no way proves any existence of god therefore debunking it achieves nothing scientific, or otherwise.
