Do you believe in God?

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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 627 30.5%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 369 18.0%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,059 51.6%

  • Total voters
    2,054
Actually, they don't have to have a starting point. Something without a starting point is simply incomprehendable to us. The whole idea of start and finish is simply a concept we've come to accept due to the fact that everything we know follows this rule.

That's always been an interesting side of the debate for me. I always find it a little confusing how theists can believe their God has been around for eternity, yet existence of anything before the Big Bang is often passed off as impossible, hence an eternal God must have been there to start it.

Likewise, the "operating on an alternative plane" theory that Joey mentioned. If God operates on that basis, why not the matter of the universe? What part of it is so difficult to believe scientifically, but easy to believe when talking about a higher being?

If these apparently unlikely infinite scenarios make sense from a theist's perspective, why is it so hard for them to believe the - essentially similar - scientific theory? The even weirder aspect is that of the two, we're more likely to find evidence to support the scientific take on it, so that should naturally seem like the option to put your money on.

Me: Do you collect stamps?

You: No.

Me: Ahhh, so not collecting stamps is a hobby of yours!

I enjoyed that, thanks 👍
 
Tic Tach
An atheist is merely a person who doesn't have god belief. An atheist might believe a whole host of things which have no evidence, just not god(s).

An atheist might believe in an afterlife, tarot cards, astrology, or any other sort of thing (although I think you'd be hard pressed to find any), just not god(s).

In addition, any two atheists may have nothing else in common other than their disbelief in god(s).

So much for "atheism being another religion", as the tired old yarn goes.
I find it slightly ironic that critics of atheism often try to brand it as a religion or a belief, as if these are bad things ;)

Me: Do you collect stamps?

You: No.

Me: Ahhh, so not collecting stamps is a hobby of yours!

Brilliant 👍
 
Your answer to my question also remains unsolved... :indiff:

Only Joey gave an honest answer.

You say I only gave my beliefs, not their basis. In fact, my first belief is the basis for all of them. It is funny and interesting that Joey has his own intellectual starting point in the Universe, while I have it within my own spirituality and my inability to comprehend it as just another physical manifestation of whatever I am. So, again, this is not a simple blind conclusion "oh great I got a soul/spirit" :rolleyes: ... the fact that I believe in my own spiritual entity as altogether different from my physical entity (with no proof, but remember, I agree with Famine, with proof it wouldn't be a belief) was achieved after many moments of doubt.

I don't like to go too personal here, but I'll say this. I was brought up within a Catholic family, in a Catholic country. As it so often happens, a time came in my life when I wanted to get rid of all and everything religion-related. I don't think I can say that I ever reached atheism because I did never reach that intellectual stance you guys have of "I won't believe unless I see scientific proof". I always though, even in my most doubt-filled moments, that such a stance leads nowhere but to the BELIEF that there is no God. And I never had that BELIEF, because all I had was DOUBT.

(yes, you guys can protest all you want, but that's how it is even if you won't admit it. If still in doubt I'll recommend a book Tic Tach links every other page, from an author whose thinking he clearly shares ... I think the cover is enough, here:


51dZViWy9zL.jpg



See?)


Anyway, I'm very sorry if you think I didn't give an honest answer. Fact is, in all honesty, I can't answer anything else to the "WHY do you believe?" question.


Are you Christian? If yes, then as a Christian are you not called to spread the Word of God and do you best to convince others to be saved in much the same way as yourself? Maybe your Christian denomination doesn't require you to be outspoken and aggressive in your outreach to non-believers, but given the opportunity, isn't it in your belief-set to try and save others?

This question wasn't directed at me and I'm not sure I grasp the concept of "denomination", must be how in the protestant world people refer to their own different "churches". But I'll say this, as a catholic (guessing that it should be similar for all christians). Jesus Christ asked all his followers to spread His word and the faith in God, but I see no requirement to be outspoken and aggressive in doing so. In any case, and concerning me ... I'm not a role-model Christian. I don't care much (if anything) for other's beliefs. All I want is respect from them, respect that so often militant atheists lack. But anyway, I guess all atheists here don't mind me being a careless Christian :lol:
 
This question wasn't directed at me and I'm not sure I grasp the concept of "denomination", must be how in the protestant world people refer to their own different "churches". But I'll say this, as a catholic (guessing that it should be similar for all christians). Jesus Christ asked all his followers to spread His word and the faith in God

Denominations are things like The Roman Catholic Church, Anglican, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian etc. But yes, they all say that Jesus' followers should spread his word. Some (like Jehovah's Witnesses) are a bit more upfront about about than most. But I only feel you should do it if they listener wants to hear it. You can't force somebody to attend church, they must find it themselves.
 
But you will not speak of what your personal evidence actually entails?

And to be honest, I'd rather not do that on the internet. But really, what are you expecting to hear? At this point, I have nothing more to say given the fact that I refuse to go into any detail regarding personal events.

Plus:
I doubt you would consider it evidence since it's technically more along the lines of massive coincidences and judgment.
 
I do believe in him.

wikipedia
Saint Nicholas of Myra is the primary inspiration for the Christian figure of Sinterklaas. He was a 4th century Greek Christian bishop of Myra (now Demre) in Lycia, a province of the Byzantine Anatolia, now in Turkey. Nicholas was famous for his generous gifts to the poor, in particular presenting the three impoverished daughters of a pious Christian with dowries so that they would not have to become prostitutes.[8] He was very religious from an early age and devoted his life entirely to Christianity. In Europe (more precisely the Netherlands, Belgium, Austria and Germany) he is still portrayed as a bearded bishop in canonical robes. In 1087, the Italian city of Bari, wanting to enter the profitable pilgrimage industry of the times, mounted an expedition to locate the tomb of the Christian Saint and procure his remains. The reliquary of St. Nicholas was desecrated by Italian sailors and the spoils, including his relics, taken to Bari[9][10] where they are kept to this day. A basilica was constructed the same year to store the loot and the area became a pilgrimage site for the devout, thus justifying the economic cost of the expedition. Saint Nicholas was later claimed as a patron saint of many diverse groups, from archers, sailors, and children to pawnbrokers.[8][11] He is also the patron saint of both Amsterdam and Moscow.[12]
 
In the same way that parents encourage their children to behave or Santa won't come , is no different from the same parents encouraging their children to behave or they won't go to heaven .

Religion is power & control , however the guise in which it's dressed up is only minutely different . The above link provided is obviously going to skewer all of its conclusions towards ultimate & unquestioning belief in Christianty , it's a Christian site . It's hardly going to want the reader to look outside of the bubble .

For example -
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/unicorns.html
Conclusion
The idea that God is a made-up concept to soothe our fears makes no sense, since we reject the existence of other made-up figures that might, likewise, make us feel better. A comparison between the existence of God (a non-contingent being) and the existence of Santa Claus or invisible pink unicorns (contingent beings) fails on many levels.The idea that there is noevidence to support the existence of God is clearly false.
Says who ? Oh wait , this guy ?
Anthony Flew, a lifelong proponent of atheism became a deist on the basis of evidence for design.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antony_Flew
In a December 2004 interview he said: "I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots, cosmic Saddam Husseins"...In 2007, in an interview with Benjamin Wiker... He also restated that he was not a Christian theist... Following an article in the New York Times magazine alleging that Flew had mentally declined, and that Varghese was the primary author... The article provoked a public outcry, in which atheist PZ Myers called Varghese "a contemptible manipulator."
It's safe to say that this guy was getting close to the end of his life , had lost his mind and his final book was manipulated .

But here he is being used as a tool to manipulate the conclusion on the Christianty website , with the writer basically saying - " Look ! He used to be an Atheist !! And he says God is real now so it's all true !! "

This site is biased Tankass , I said that a few pages ago remember?
 
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I was brought up within a Catholic family, in a Catholic country.

And this THE reason why you're a Catholic. Childhood indoctrination.

Forgive this lengthy quote from A.C. Grayling, but it's gold:

Religions survive mainly because they brainwash the young. Three-quarters of Church of England schools are primary schools; all the faiths currently jostling for our tax money to run their "faith-based" schools know that if they do not proselytize intellectually defenseless three and four-year-olds, their grip will eventually loosen. Inculcating the various competing — competing, note — falsehoods of the major faiths into small children is a form of child abuse, and a scandal. Let us challenge religion to leave children alone until they are adults, whereupon they can be presented with the essentials of religion for mature consideration.

For example: tell an averagely intelligent adult hitherto free of religious brainwashing that somewhere, invisibly, there is a being somewhat like us, with desires, interests, purposes, memories, and emotions of anger, love, vengefulness, and jealousy, yet with the negation of such other of our failings as mortality, weakness, corporeality, visibility, limited knowledge and insight; and that this god magically impregnates a mortal woman, who then gives birth to a special being who performs various prodigious feats before departing for heaven. Take your pick of which version of this story to tell: let a King of Heaven impregnate — let's see — Danae or Io or Leda or the Virgin Mary (etc., etc.) and let there be resulting heaven-destined progeny (Heracles, Castor and Pollux, Jesus., etc., etc.) — or any of the other forms of exactly such tales in Babylonian, Egyptian, and other mythologies — then ask which of them he wishes to believe. One can guarantee that such a person would say: none of them. (A. C. Grayling)




As it so often happens, a time came in my life when I wanted to get rid of all and everything religion-related.

Why do you suspect this often happens? Is it possible that the cognitive dissonance that many experience with the false beliefs that they have been inculcated with justs gets too loud, and the mind knows that it's not true and screams to be rid of it?




I don't think I can say that I ever reached atheism because I did never reach that intellectual stance you guys have of "I won't believe unless I see scientific proof". I always though, even in my most doubt-filled moments, that such a stance leads nowhere but to the BELIEF that there is no God. And I never had that BELIEF, because all I had was DOUBT.

Oh no, not this again. (weeps). Not having a belief in something is not a belief! If you had doubt, you had the one thing that is the mother of all knowledge. The abandonment of doubt leads to monsters.

Too much doubt is better than too much credulity. (Robert G. Ingersoll)




Anyway, I'm very sorry if you think I didn't give an honest answer. Fact is, in all honesty, I can't answer anything else to the "WHY do you believe?" question.

I don't question your honesty, I do question though your appreciation and awareness for how & why you are a Catholic. If you were born & raised in Japan by Shinto parents, what religious stance do you suspect you'd have?
 
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You say I only gave my beliefs, not their basis. In fact, my first belief is the basis for all of them.

You listed what you believe. I want to know why you have those beliefs and why you feel they are valid. You answer amounts to:

"I believe in God and Spirituality because I believe in God and Spirituality."


Fact is, in all honesty, I can't answer anything else to the "WHY do you believe?" question.

Why is that? Is it because you have never truly attempted to rationalize your thoughts? It seems like you believe what you believe because you just do. Joey believes in God because he hasn't found a better answer to explain the still-existent mysteries of the Universe.




Jesus Christ asked all his followers to spread His word and the faith in God, but I see no requirement to be outspoken and aggressive in doing so. In any case, and concerning me ... I'm not a role-model Christian. I don't care much (if anything) for other's beliefs.

The word denomination is used in respect to which "brand" of Christianity one subscribes to. Catholicism, Church of England, Mormonism, Baptism, etc. Some denominations (evangelical and Calvary come to mind) require their followers to be very proactive in recruiting new members. They believe that they have a better chance of going to Heaven if they "save" more souls by bringing them to Christianity.

All I want is respect from them, respect that so often militant atheists lack. But anyway, I guess all atheists here don't mind me being a careless Christian :lol:

Have I been disrespectful?

And to be honest, I'd rather not do that on the internet.

Why join a discussion if you are unwilling to share?

But really, what are you expecting to hear? At this point, I have nothing more to say given the fact that I refuse to go into any detail regarding personal events.

"I believe in God because I had cancer but it went away and the Doctors could not explain why." "I believe in God because I have faith" "I believe in God because............"

How about some logic? To be honest, I was being hopeful that some theists on here had put some real thought into why they believe in God and would have a strong foundation in their belief.

Honestly, it sounds like you would lose your belief in God tomorrow if you just felt like it. You haven't shown a shred of conviction.
 
Villain
You listed what you believe. I want to know why you have those beliefs and why you feel they are valid. You answer amounts to:

"I believe in God and Spirituality because I believe in God and Spirituality."

Why is that? Is it because you have never truly attempted to rationalize your thoughts? It seems like you believe what you believe because you just do. Joey believes in God because he hasn't found a better answer to explain the still-existent mysteries of the Universe.

The word denomination is used in respect to which "brand" of Christianity one subscribes to. Catholicism, Church of England, Mormonism, Baptism, etc.

Have I been disrespectful?

Why join a discussion if you are unwilling to share?

"I believe in God because I had cancer but it went away and the Doctors could not explain why." "I believe in God because I have faith" "I believe in God because............"

How about some logic? To be honest, I was being hopeful that some theists on here had put some real thought into why they believe in God and would have a strong foundation in their belief.

Honestly, it sounds like you would lose your belief in God tomorrow if you just felt like it. You haven't shown a shred of conviction.

Perhaps I could explain why I believe in God?
I believe that God is real because I find it the only believable way in which we exist.
 
Holy crap. I've not seen such gibberish posing as a rational argument since... oh, right.

I quite liked this paragraph, if only because their last line undid all the good work of the lines before it.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster was an invention of Bobby Henderson in response to the State Board of Education of Kansas's attempt to promote intelligent design. It makes for a very humorous picture, although it provides virtually no analogy to God's character. Spaghetti and meatballs are the physical creation of intelligent beings and could never exist outside of a human domain

In a universe as big as ours, there's every chance spaghetti and meatballs could exist outside of a human domain...

I believe that God is real because I find it the only believable way in which we exist.

Despite all the actual evidence that supports our existence?
 
And this THE reason why you're a Catholic. Childhood indoctrination.

Forgive this lengthy quote from A.C. Grayling, but it's gold:

Religions survive mainly because they brainwash the young. Three-quarters of Church of England schools are primary schools; all the faiths currently jostling for our tax money to run their "faith-based" schools know that if they do not proselytize intellectually defenseless three and four-year-olds, their grip will eventually loosen. Inculcating the various competing — competing, note — falsehoods of the major faiths into small children is a form of child abuse, and a scandal. Let us challenge religion to leave children alone until they are adults, whereupon they can be presented with the essentials of religion for mature consideration.

For example: tell an averagely intelligent adult hitherto free of religious brainwashing that somewhere, invisibly, there is a being somewhat like us, with desires, interests, purposes, memories, and emotions of anger, love, vengefulness, and jealousy, yet with the negation of such other of our failings as mortality, weakness, corporeality, visibility, limited knowledge and insight; and that this god magically impregnates a mortal woman, who then gives birth to a special being who performs various prodigious feats before departing for heaven. Take your pick of which version of this story to tell: let a King of Heaven impregnate — let's see — Danae or Io or Leda or the Virgin Mary (etc., etc.) and let there be resulting heaven-destined progeny (Heracles, Castor and Pollux, Jesus., etc., etc.) — or any of the other forms of exactly such tales in Babylonian, Egyptian, and other mythologies — then ask which of them he wishes to believe. One can guarantee that such a person would say: none of them. (A. C. Grayling)


No Tic Tach, I am Catholic because I chose to be Catholic when I reached the adult age. Did you not read the many people in this thread saying they were raised christians and later became atheists?

I'll tell you this. It is MUCH MORE difficult, in our western "all-you-see-is-all-there-is" society, to keep any kind of faith, than it is to abandon it.

I am a firm believer in the existence of God. And I think I wouldn't be so firm in my belief had I not been able to overcome the "childhood" baby Jesus, had I not been able to confront myself, to confront others, and to be confronted by others, about God and the religious belief. Maybe I would be just another mindless sheep in some kind of flock, but that would be meaningless. One must DOUBT to really believe. Like when we say that there no heroicity without fear, I say there's no faith without an everlasting doubt.

It's also all this doubting, and questioning, and reasoning, and longing for the many absolutes we can conceive and theorize but can never reach that make ever more certain that in me, as in you, there's more to it than what you can see, experiment, taste or measure.

But enough, I'm not here to expand on my own experience of faith, nor am I here to convince anyone. As I said, all I require from others is the same respect I give them.

And this leads me to your quoted text. Time and again, this "1984esque" temptation arises. If you want to take away the kids from parents that don't give a **** about them (very common in our modern societies) we can discuss that. If you want to take away the kids from parents that teach them that killing innocents in the name of a political or a religious claim is good ... please do, I'll vote "Yay" to that also.

Now, if you try to mess with how I educate my children because I tell them God exists, Jesus was His Son and God himself, and I teach them what Jesus preached and tell them that they should lead their lives in accordance with that, I'll only say this: Don't. Raise your children telling them your own non-beliefs at will, that's yours, and theirs, problem, I won't interfere because I respect your own options and the fact you are their father.

And, of course, I see no harm done there, as long as you pass on to your kids some fundamental values about living in a human society. With, or without, the belief in God.

You listed what you believe. I want to know why you have those beliefs and why you feel they are valid. You answer amounts to:

"I believe in God and Spirituality because I believe in God and Spirituality."

It amounts to a lot more, you just didn't read properly, or maybe it's all my fault, not being a native English I probably don't know the apropriate words to explain why my own reasoning makes me believe in a spiritual me.

Let's leave at rest then. You think my reply is what is written above ... ok, I can live with that :)
 
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No Tic Tach, I am Catholic because I chose to be Catholic when I reached the adult age.

Hold on a second; first you said that you were raised by Catholic parents in a Catholic country, and now you're saying that you reached the destination of Catholicism all by yourself as a rational adult??? Sorry, the two claims are mutually exclusive.

Please read a post I made some time ago about religious indoctrination being a form of child abuse. You might find it here, but if that link doesn't work, it's post #2130 on this thread.
 
Hold on a second; first you said that you were raised by Catholic parents in a Catholic country, and now you're saying that you reached the destination of Catholicism all by yourself as a rational adult??? Sorry, the two claims are mutually exclusive.

Please read a post I made some time ago about religious indoctrination being a form of child abuse. You might find it here, but if that link doesn't work, it's post #2130 on this thread.

No, they're not mutually exclusive, if you ever come to Portugal tell me and I'll receive you at my home and in your special honour I will invite all my friends that were raised as I was and during youth, or already adults, turned their backs entirely on religion. With adult rational thinking.

Or are you advocating some kind of "original sin" concept, one that makes that any person raised catholic cannot claim that after being out, their return was due to rational adult thinking? Only leaving the church can be classified like that ? :lol:

I think atheist indoctrination is a form of child abuse too, the coins have two sides you know. But we have a difference, I respect the atheist parents' right to educate their kids the way they see fit. The line is only drawn if their education is violent or aims to create anti-social hedonistic intelligent life forms that think anything goes during the short period they walk this Earth. Social and human values must be taught, both by theists and atheists. Anything else ... live and let live.
 
No Tic Tach, I am Catholic because I chose to be Catholic when I reached the adult age. Did you not read the many people in this thread saying they were raised christians and later became atheists?

......

I am a firm believer in the existence of God. And I think I wouldn't be so firm in my belief had I not been able to overcome the "childhood" baby Jesus, had I not been able to confront myself, to confront others, and to be confronted by others, about God and the religious belief. Maybe I would be just another mindless sheep in some kind of flock, but that would be meaningless. One must DOUBT to really believe. Like when we say that there no heroicity without fear, I say there's no faith without an everlasting doubt.

.......

Now, if you try to mess with how I educate my children because I tell them God exists, Jesus was His Son and God himself, and I teach them what Jesus preached and tell them that they should lead their lives in accordance with that, I'll only say this: Don't. Raise your children telling them your own non-beliefs at will, that's yours, and theirs, problem, I won't interfere because I respect your own options and the fact you are their father.

You seem to place value on choosing your own religion as an adult, yet you lob thinly veiled threats at someone who suggests children shouldn't be educated as Christians. So you don't want your kids to enjoy the same opportunity to find their own beliefs as rational thinking adults?

You also extoll the virtues of doubting and analyzing, which somewhat flies in the face of indoctrinating young children in religion. By the time they're old enough to doubt and analyze, there's a good chance that Christianity will already be so ingrained in them, they'll never think to doubt it.

Finally, I find the part in bold to be a little insulting, especially in light of all the cries of disrespect from the theists in here. Why would bringing up a child as a non-theist be a "problem?" And why would anyone need to "interfere" with it? Perhaps it was just a case of some poorly-chosen words, but I think it really reflects the same animosity towards atheists that you claim they're showing you.
 
My daughter is taught anything she wants to know about any religion. I give her information without prejudicing her towards nor away from any religion. But then the scientific approach is the approach of the unprejudiced...

Theists will teach their children about their belief at the expense of others' beliefs. Non-theists will teach their children about their belief (those that believe in no gods) at the expense of others' beliefs. Atheists will not teach their children any belief at the expense of others' beliefs...
 
I would highly recommend any non believer in the existence of God to read the book: Evolution: Fact or Fiction by John Blanchard.
 
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