Do you believe in God?

[TheCracker]

And that is the reason for the huge debate in this whole thread. Neither side will admit that there could be a small chance that they are wrong and the other person could be right. There are facts and evidence that could point either way.

There are facts and evidence that could point one way.

tree'd!

 

[TankAss95]

That's not really the problem (nor is it Christian-centric) - you go right ahead and believe what you want, it doesn't matter what anyone else says. The problem is when people-of-faith don't comprehend demonstrable fact, then refuse to because "it's only a theory" or "that's your opinion" and claim that whatever their holy book says that the fact contradicts is true because it's nicer or easier to believe - when belief is immaterial to whether the fact is true or not...

Many people believe that a belief in religion is just false hope. This may very well be right in some circumstances, yet people like me believe in Christianity because they are certain through both personal experiences and the world around us that God (or their religion) is real. If you are suggesting that every believer in any religion believes in it just because it seems nicer or makes them feel special or purposeful is ridiculous.

 

[Strittan]

Many people believe that a belief in religion is just false hope. This may very well be right in some circumstances, yet people like me believe in Christianity because they are certain through both personal experiences and the world around us that God (or their religion) is real.

May I ask you to tell me about one of these experiences? What convinced you?

If you are suggesting that every believer in any religion believes in it just because it seems nicer or makes them feel special or purposeful is ridiculous.

Why is that ridiculous?

I think it's sad how christians take credit away from theirselves. Take Ayrton Senna for example. He is perhaps the best Formula One driver of all time, but he always thanked God for his victories, instead of just appreciating his own incredible talent.

EDIT: This also makes me wonder about God's priorities. Is it more important to help a Formula One driver win races than help a poor and starving child in Africa to get food and water?

 

[Brend]

May I ask you to tell me about one of these experiences? What convinced you?


Why is that ridiculous?

I think it's sad how christians take credit away from theirselves. Take Ayrton Senna for example. He is perhaps the best Formula One driver of all time, but he always thanked God for his victories, instead of just appreciating his own incredible talent.

We don't feel sad about it so you shouldn't waste your time being so. 👍

 

[shmogt]

Really? What facts and evidence are there for anything in any of the religions?

There are facts and evidence that could point one way.

tree'd!

The facts and evidence is all these books and scriptures found all over the world for all major religions. Each written by many eye witnesses and have testimonies providing what they saw back than. If this was a court case and I shot you than 12 people write and book that detailed the events that happened leading up to the murder my ass would be in jail quicker than quick. However these people are just dead wrong absolute lie? There is completely no truth to anything they saw and wrote about and that it's just all made up in their heads? Something had to have happen it doesn't make sense any other way. Now back than pretty much anything you didn't understand was the act of a god or the person was a witch and had to be burned, but all these books and scriptures all over the world filled with multiple events lead me to beileve that something must of happened and a tiny tiny possibility it could all be true. Giving god a plausible theory.

Edit: I was also talking about science and religion. So science says we are right religion says we are right. It can go either way since the true answer has not been found.

 

[huskeR32]

That's the point of life to never really know and just go with it. Religion is the same thing it's a bunch of stuff that they say is right, but could be wrong. There is no real answers. You can't just say there's no god because there's not enough evidence. You have no evidence of who made earth or people or anything really. Science has a bunch of theories as to what may have happened, but know one has any actual proof either way. God is just another scientific theory in a way. Saying its impossible for it to be true makes you just as ignorant who say god is absolute 100% truth.

... I have to recommend you look through the rest of the thread or at least quite a few recent pages, as your points have all been discussed in detail already.

I read the last few pages and that's why I said what I said.

I don't think you did read much of this thread yet. We covered the whole "no evidence either way" thing pretty thoroughly. Are any of them proven? No. Do some of them have more evidence than others? Definitely. To claim that they're all equally unsupported by evidence is just flat wrong.

Can't all the deists & theists in this thread see how much damage they do to their arguments when the willfully and continuously ignore the facts?

 

[Exorcet]

yet people like me believe in Christianity because they are certain through both personal experiences and the world around us that God (or their religion) is real.

That doesn't sound too different from false hope.

It sounds like you experiencing something you can't explain with science happening only because you don't know enough science, and then thinking God did it.

The Earth...its size is perfect.

Which led to life being successful on Earth and not elsewhere. Not proof for God.

Oh and Earth is also perfectly broken up into tectonic plates that caused quakes and waves that kill lots of people.

Water...colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it. Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:

Well, only life as know it needs water to exist, but anyway this is just like the Earth thing. Water led to life because it's good for life. No evidence for design.

By the way, being made of water makes us vulnerable to death in extreme conditions. Conditions that we can find on Earth.

The human brain...simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of your keyboard. Your brain holds and processes all your emotions, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.

Evolution. Though brains are pretty easy to trick and prone to error.

The eye

See above

The universe has not always existed. It had a start...what caused that? Scientists have no explanation for the sudden explosion of light and matter.

Addressed in this thread already, but no explanation is OK, we'll just keeping going until there is an answer. Also, what caused God?

3. Does God exist? The universe operates by uniform laws of nature. Why does it?

Didn't someone post that this is potentially not true a few pages ago? Why is it true for religion if it's not for science?

 

[Strittan]

The facts and evidence is all these books and scriptures found all over the world for all major religions. Each written by many eye witnesses and have testimonies providing what they saw back than. If this was a court case and I shot you than 12 people write and book that detailed the events that happened leading up to the murder my ass would be in jail quicker than quick. However these people are just dead wrong absolute lie? There is completely no truth to anything they saw and wrote about and that it's just all made up in their heads? Something had to have happen it doesn't make sense any other way. Now back than pretty much anything you didn't understand was the act of a god or the person was a witch and had to be burned, but all these books and scriptures all over the world filled with multiple events lead me to beileve that something must of happened and a tiny tiny possibility it could all be true. Giving god a plausible theory.

Sorry, but how is a book written several thousand years ago an evidence of anything? Do you believe a person who says he's just seen a ghost? That's an eye witness too you know.

 

[TheCracker]

The facts and evidence is all these books and scriptures found all over the world for all major religions. Each written by many eye witnesses and have testimonies providing what they saw back than. If this was a court case and I shot you than 12 people write and book that detailed the events that happened leading up to the murder my ass would be in jail quicker than quick. However these people are just dead wrong absolute lie? There is completely no truth to anything they saw and wrote about and that it's just all made up in their heads? Something had to have happen it doesn't make sense any other way. Now back than pretty much anything you didn't understand was the act of a god or the person was a witch and had to be burned, but all these books and scriptures all over the world filled with multiple events lead me to beileve that something must of happened and a tiny tiny possibility it could all be true. Giving god a plausible theory.

I've read The Lord of the Rings, but i ain't about to start leading my life according to the words of Gandalf.

An ancient collection of stories that may or may not have been written by eye witness, that's been translated from one language to another over and over again, isn't going to rule the way i live my life.

 

[Tic Tach]

The facts and evidence is all these books and scriptures found all over the world for all major religions. Each written by many eye witnesses and have testimonies providing what they saw back than. If this was a court case and I shot you than 12 people write and book that detailed the events that happened leading up to the murder my ass would be in jail quicker than quick. However these people are just dead wrong absolute lie?

Gah. You really need to watch this.

 

[shmogt]

I don't think you did read much of this thread yet. We covered the whole "no evidence either way" thing pretty thoroughly. Are any of them proven? No. Do some of them have more evidence than others? Definitely. To claim that they're all equally unsupported by evidence is just flat wrong.

Can't all the deists & theists in this thread see how much damage they do to their arguments when the willfully and continuously ignore the facts?

What I said was there is evidence to prove science is right and there is also stuff that proves religion is right. Both sides will argue forever on this, but all the evidence on either side has not come up with a solid truth of how it happened. It's all guesses and some guesses have more support than others. If you don't know the origins you can't tell me how a final product was made. You can only guess using facts or base it on how other things were made, but have no hard proof on yes the world was made like this, simple.

Sorry, but how is a book written several thousand years ago an evidence of anything? Do you believe a person who says he's just seen a ghost? That's an eye witness too you know.

How isn't a book written thousands of years ago not evidence. So it's just the greatest children's book ever made, filled with the most insane stories? Maybe. Also maybe it's all true know one knows for sure. If someone sees a ghost maybe they did. Maybe they saw nothing or maybe it's a burglar that took off when he saw them. You weren't actually there to see for yourself so many possibilities could be the answer. Not saying just because there screaming about how for sure it was a ghost makes it a ghost, but it could of been tons of things. You can't disclose it instantly just because your personal views say there's no way.

 

[Exorcet]

The facts and evidence is all these books and scriptures found all over the world for all major religions. Each written by many eye witnesses and have testimonies providing what they saw back than. If this was a court case and I shot you than 12 people write and book that detailed the events that happened leading up to the murder my ass would be in jail quicker than quick.

Back then people did not have the standards they do today. It was perfectly acceptable for a writer to add a dragon fight out of an action movie to someone's journey of exploration.

 

[TheCracker]

What I said was there is evidence to prove science is right and there is also stuff that proves religion is right.

Where's the evidence to prove religion is right about anything?

How isn't a book written thousands of years ago not evidence. So it's just the greatest children's book ever made, filled with the most insane stories? Maybe. Also maybe it's all true know one knows for sure. If someone sees a ghost ]maybe they did. Maybe they saw nothing or maybe it's a burglar that took off when he saw them. You weren't actually there to see for yourself so many possibilities could be the answer. Not saying just because there screaming about how for sure it was a ghost makes it a ghost, but it could of been tons of things. You can't disclose it instantly just because your personal views say there's no way.

You really want to base your life on maybes?

 

[Strittan]

How isn't a book written thousands of years ago not evidence. So it's just the greatest children's book ever made, filled with the most insane stories? Maybe. Also maybe it's all true know one knows for sure.

Because of what you say yourself. No one knows fur sure, which means it proves nothing, and therefore it's not evidence for anything.

You can't disclose it instantly just because your personal views say there's no way.

I have never said there's no way. I've just said there's no evidence. Huge difference.

EDIT: Also, did you ever catch this?:

Structure your posts. You put everything in one huge paragraph which is not the way to do it.

Check your spelling, It only takes a minute and it makes a huge difference. If you do not have a spell checker on browser then copy your post into word, check spelling then put it back in here... then read it again, always triple check your posts.

 

[Hun200kmh]

Are we back to the evidence - no evidence debate ...

Oh and Dan, Gandalf's wise words wouldn't do you harm anyway. Especially those about

"... white shores, and beyond, a far green country, under a swift sunrise ..."

 

[huskeR32]

And I will pose the same question to you that I did to Tic Tac:

If they [deist scientist] believe in God and can manage a groundbreaking discovery that changes the way science thinks then what is the problem? If you some how think these people are inferior I challenge you to tell me what you have done for the advancement of the world lately.

Sorry to bring pack a 5-page old post, but I'm just getting caught up on the last 12 hours or so of posting. Joey, you've brought this up several times now, and it's a ridiculous thing to say.

People needn't have done anything to "advance the world" to engage in a rational debate. That demand is so arrogant.

Finally, let's set this demand of yours against your repeated denouncements in the last few pages of atheists as being "condescending." It just reeks of hypocrisy, doesn't it?

 

[TheCracker]

Oh and Dan, Gandalf's wise words wouldn't do you harm anyway. Especially those about

What, and have him ask me to leave the 'Shire again?

 

[huskeR32]

What I said was there is evidence to prove science is right and there is also stuff that proves religion is right. Both sides will argue forever on this, but all the evidence on either side has not come up with a solid truth of how it happened. It's all guesses and some guesses have more support than others. If you don't know the origins you can't tell me how a final product was made. You can only guess using facts or base it on how other things were made, but have no hard proof on yes the world was made like this, simple.

Such as?

Oh, that's right, you want to hold up the bible as proof. Except then you yourself said this:

How isn't a book written thousands of years ago not evidence. So it's just the greatest children's book ever made, filled with the most insane stories? Maybe. Also maybe it's all true know one knows for sure. If someone sees a ghost maybe they did. Maybe they saw nothing or maybe it's a burglar that took off when he saw them. You weren't actually there to see for yourself so many possibilities could be the answer. Not saying just because there screaming about how for sure it was a ghost makes it a ghost, but it could of been tons of things. You can't disclose it instantly just because your personal views say there's no way.

Again:
No theories are proven. But some of them have an awful lot of evidence, and some have none.

You can't say they're all equally likely just because none of them are proven for sure. From among the pool of theories, some have a lot more weight behind them. I'll give you a hint: none of them are religion.

 

[shmogt]

Gah. You really need to watch this.

I watched this and I will repeat this is not is religion right thread it is do you believe in god thread. There is a big difference. Religion whether you believe in god, Jesus, any other type of god has never been founded by that person. Meaning no books or stories were written by them. It's all ordinary humans who have made these which is why there is so much controversy as to what is fact or fiction.

I never have said Christian beliefs are the only answer or Jewish, Hindu whatever are the logical lives to live. I said the opposite that they are all different because humans are responsible for them however the solid ground for them is all the same in all them. A super powerful created everything, we are allowed to live anyway we want but rules to go by to make life better are provided and that eventually everyone will die. Every religion says the same thing anything else like stories etc are human made which may or may not be true.

I am not debating you should be religious and believe in god as he will save us and give us power. I am saying as a creator of the world and life on it, it is a possibility. Two atoms making it all may also be true, but little atoms just happened to make a earth in which life can live and than just happened to design a brain, eyes, central nervous system all by chance? Lol it sounds even crazier than some of the religions.

Finally I'm not trying to convert you to anything so I'm not sure why everyone keeps getting so defensive. I am not a religious person telling my ways of life nor am I someone trying to prove anyone wrong. All I am saying is know one on this earth knows the true origins as to why everything was created or the purpose of it and until the answer is found nothing can be ruled out completely.

I really hope I have made it clear to you all as to what my views on this are. As I do not know how to make it more clear after all this.

 

[Tic Tach]

but little atoms just happened to make a earth in which life can live and than just happened to design a brain, eyes, central nervous system all by chance? Lol it sounds even crazier than some of the religions.

I'm sorry that the education system has failed you.

 

[shmogt]

I'm sorry that the education system has failed you.

It must of because I seriously do not know how or why humans are made into such complicated beings. Don't say evolution either because that still doesn't answer what made the very first generation of creatures nor does it answer what made it evolve.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I'm sorry that the education system has failed you.

Speaking into a mirror Tic Tach?

 

[Exorcet]

Don't say evolution either because that still doesn't answer what made the very first generation of creatures

Of course not, it's not supposed to.

nor does it answer what made it evolve.

Yes it does.

Speaking into a mirror Tic Tach?

He's referring to the fact that no one thinks life popped out of nowhere from chance. Life stems from a chain of events that follow from the initial conditions of the universe.

 

[Strittan]

It must of because I seriously do not know how or why humans are made into such complicated beings. Don't say evolution either because that still doesn't answer what made the very first generation of creatures nor does it answer what made it evolve.

In fact it does. It's just that you refuse to try and understand it.

 

[Hun200kmh]

I know very well what he is referring to. And I can tell you about a million ways of getting to your point without making a personal remark of that intensity.

A new low was reached, I would say.

 

[homeforsummer]

All I am saying is know one on this earth knows the true origins as to why everything was created or the purpose of it and until the answer is found nothing can be ruled out completely.

Not quite true, for two reasons.

One, we have some fairly good theories on how everything came to being - they just need to be tested.

Two, because as I mentioned literally a page ago, there doesn't have to be a meaning or a purpose for life. If you keep asking "why" we all exist and looking to God for the answers then you miss the bigger - and frankly much more interesting - picture, which is finding out how we exist.

It must of because I seriously do not know how or why humans are made into such complicated beings. Don't say evolution either because that still doesn't answer what made the very first generation of creatures nor does it answer what made it evolve.

You're looking at everything as if there has to be a reason for something happening. Life started for no more reason than anything else in the world has. It just happened to have the ideal chemicals and conditions to enable proteins to form basic cells.

And evolution happens for no different reason than how we age - cells constantly replace themselves and change subtly as they do so. Some of these changes result in organisms being different from organisms, and since some organisms will then be better adapted to their surroundings they'll last longer and carry that gene forward. Bing, evolution.

This is all really, readily-accessible and consistently proven stuff. You just need to have the will to look for it and attempt to understand it.

 

[shmogt]

In fact it does. It's just that you refuse to try and understand it.

No I mean like why does it evolve in the first place? It was made for some reason and than evolves. Why wasn't it just made awesome to begin with? What factors tell it to evolve into a chicken rather than a eagle?

These are the things that I am wondering about. Screw religions it's not important at all. It is just how you decide to live which is on you.

The true importance is the very start of it all. That very first cell. What and why made that?

Edit: guy above my post you wrote that when I was typing this and I am saying the same thing.

 

[itsbenjibrand]

...If you keep asking "why" we all exist and looking to God for the answers then you miss the bigger - and frankly much more interesting - picture, which is finding out how we exist.

Exactly, why would people wonder why they were in a place when they had no clue how they got there? Your quote makes perfect sense 👍.

 

[Tic Tach]

No I mean like why does it evolve in the first place? It was made for some reason and than evolves. Why wasn't it just made awesome to begin with? What factors tell it to evolve into a chicken rather than a eagle?

STOP!

Your level of ignorance is staggering. You are yet another one of these individuals who, out of your ignorance, regurgitate what seem to be questions, but they aren't really questions at all, they are merely statements that say: "I don't understand so & so, so therefore all possible answers are valid."

Take any of the things you don't understand and do some research!

 

[shmogt]

STOP!

Your level of ignorance is staggering. You are yet another one of these individuals who, out of your ignorance, regurgitate what seem to be questions, but they aren't really questions at all, they are merely statements that say: "I don't understand so & so, so therefore all possible answers are valid."

Take any of the things you don't understand and do some research!

You are obviously a fool. You are not even trying to read and think about what I am saying and just out right attacking me as a person. Please tell me what made a tiny cell take billions of years and eventually evolve into a chicken because I have researched and have no idea.