Do you believe in God?

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Do you believe in god?

  • Of course, without him nothing would exist!

    Votes: 626 30.5%
  • Maybe.

    Votes: 368 17.9%
  • No way!

    Votes: 1,059 51.6%

  • Total voters
    2,052
Edit: guy above my post you wrote that when I was typing this and I am saying the same thing.

Read my post again. You're saying the same thing because you seem unwilling to look into it more yourself.

You're still asking the wrong questions:

No I mean like why does it evolve in the first place? It was made for some reason and than evolves. Why wasn't it just made awesome to begin with? What factors tell it to evolve into a chicken rather than a eagle?

The true importance is the very start of it all. That very first cell. What and why made that?

By asking "why" something becomes a chicken and not an eagle you're misunderstanding evolution at a really fundamental level, so you'll naturally run out of answers pretty quickly and assume that God must have made it that way instead, or helped the process along.

Cells don't just "decide" for a "reason" what to become next. Evolution is a process that for most creatures can take hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions of years. Really, really tiny changes in cells can make one creature different from another and the reason we have the creatures we have today is because they were the breeds that have survived over millions of years of changes.

Please tell me what made a tiny cell take billions of years and eventually evolve into a chicken because I have researched and have no idea.

You really haven't researched. If you'd done any research into it - even wikipedia - then you'd have a deeper understanding of the concept than you're displaying in your posts. And I'm not just saying that to be an arse, it's just very, very apparent.
 
homeforsummer
Read my post again. You're saying the same thing because you seem unwilling to look into it more yourself.

You're still asking the wrong questions:

By asking "why" something becomes a chicken and not an eagle you're misunderstanding evolution at a really fundamental level.

Cells don't just "decide" what to morph into next. Evolution is a process that for most creatures can take hundreds, thousands, hundreds of thousands or millions of years. Really, really tiny changes in cells can make one creature different from another and the reason we have the creatures we have today is because they were the breeds that have survived over millions of years of changes.

Yes I no that. I am saying day one there is a cell that is a small creature. It swims or whatever just living it's life. What makes it than change slightly into something else?

Not now a days changes. Environment, food sources and many other factors can be counted in. We are saying the same thing I am just wording it different. I guess still not clear enough to everyone sorry.
 
Yes I no that. I am saying day one there is a cell that is a small creature. It swims or whatever just living it's life. What makes it than change slightly into something else?

I'd add at this point that the deeper we go into the subject of evolution, the less relevant it becomes to this thread. However, to save me retyping everything:

And evolution happens for no different reason than how we age - cells constantly replace themselves and change subtly as they do so. Some of these changes result in organisms being different from organisms, and since some organisms will then be better adapted to their surroundings they'll last longer and carry that gene forward. Bing, evolution.

This is the bit I wanted you to read again because it's already answered what you're asking. What makes a cell change? The same thing that makes any cell change. Cells don't last forever so they constantly renew themselves. In the process of renewing, they change slightly.

Think of it as making photocopies of photocopies. The more times you photocopy a photocopy of a photocopy, the fainter the picture gets and less of the detail of the original remains.

This is why we age, and it's also why cells can change leading to evolution. Some of those changes in the smallest of cells can result in a different physical attribute that may make a creature better than it's competitor at doing something that's required for survival.
 
homeforsummer
I'd add at this point that the deeper we go into the subject of evolution, the less relevant it becomes to this thread. However, to save me retyping everything:

This is the bit I wanted you to read again because it's already answered what you're asking. What makes a cell change? The same thing that makes any cell change. Cells don't last forever so they constantly renew themselves. In the process of renewing, they change slightly.

Think of it as making photocopies of photocopies. The more times you photocopy a photocopy of a photocopy, the fainter the picture gets and less of the detail of the original remains.

This is why we age, and it's also why cells can change leading to evolution. Some of those changes in the smallest of cells can result in a different physical attribute that may make a creature better than it's competitor at doing something that's required for survival.

Still no your not understanding. I am not asking the process of evolution. I have learned about it in school and read Charles Darwin's book so I'm pretty familiar on how it works. My question is absolute day one who what where when how was the first every cell creature made and why would it's genetic makeup instal a evolution process into it? I'm talking stage one creature not a second form which has already evolved and than continues to evolve to fit its surroundings over millions of years. The complete first. Everything I have said in this thread I am talking day 1.
 
My question is absolute day one who what where when how was the first every cell creature made and why would it's genetic makeup instal a evolution process into it?

Evolution has no reason to provide origin of the first creature.

Secondly, evolution is not "installed" into genes. It's a logical outcome. Creatures live and die, those that live pass on their genes. The ones with better genes typically live more than those that don't. So good genes are passed on more often.
 
Still no your not understanding.

"Still know you're not understanding? Still, no you're not understanding? Still know, your not understanding? WTH are you saying?

I am not asking the process of evolution. I have learned about it in school and read Charles Darwin's book so I'm pretty familiar on how it works. My question is absolute day one who what where when how was the first every cell creature made and why would it's genetic makeup instal a evolution process into it? I'm talking stage one creature not a second form which has already evolved and than continues to evolve to fit its surroundings over millions of years. The complete first. Everything I have said in this thread I am talking day 1.

What is a "stage one" creature? Evolution didn't take place in stages. It's a series of infinitesimally small changes that result if continuous alterations to a species. As for why it happened, it was all just explained in a very comprehensible manner.
 
I don't understand why Shmogt keeps asking questions to a guy that belitles his education and calls him ignorant. And even the other more AUP abiding members here from the atheist camp cannot conceal how much of a BLIND FAITH you are yourselves experiencing when you reply to someone that asks basically "HOW DID WE EVOLVE TO THIS? WHY DID WE EVOLVE TO THIS?" that Science solves those questions.

Evolution is perfectly fine, I have no problem with it or with anything else science tries to discover. But in the end, many questions remain. And it's easy to call ignaorant to the ones that keep asking them.

I'll quote a text I read following a link High-Test placed in this thread many pages ago. Only a fool would call the writer ignorant, or say that what he writes doesn't make any sense.

All human beings from time immemorial have, based on reason and experience, operated under the principle that highly specified information (i.e. drawings on cave walls, inscriptions in stone, poetry, computer code, etc.), and functional complexity beyond a certain level (bicycle, tape recorder, computers, etc.), are always the result of intelligent purpose and intervention. This principle is not based on what we don’t know; it is based on what we do know and experience about the sources of specified information and functional complexity.
This is the reason why SETI scientists sit and wait for purposeful patterns of radio transmissions from outer space. If these scientists detected a radio transmission from the great spiral galaxy delineating in perfect Morse Code the exact chemical formula of the DNA of a fruit fly, there would only be one of two conclusions: A. We had made contact with ET, or B. Someone at NASA was playing a colossal joke on everyone. The one possibility that would not be considered, at least not by those with a reasonable grasp on reality, is that the transmission was the result of some naturalistic process guided solely by the laws of chemistry and physics that took place over a period of 300 million years, and which clothed the message in an “illusion of design and purpose.” (For those who are familiar with Dawkinspeak: Designoid transmissions)
Illya Prigogine, (Nobel Prize-Chemistry, 1977), once wrote that, “let us have no illusions…[we] are unable to grasp the extreme complexity of the simplest of organisms.” The DNA of a bacterium (the simplest type of living organism known to have existed) contains an encyclopedic amount of pure digitally encoded information that directs the highly sophisticated molecular machinery within the cell membrane.
“The machine code of the genes is uncannily computer-like…DNA characters are copied with an accuracy that rivals anything that modern engineers can do…DNA messages are pure digital code.” (Please forgive me for quoting the well known creationist and proponent of ID, Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden.) The obvious conclusion is that both the code and the sophisticated molecular machinery are the result of intelligent purpose and intervention. In other words, just as the highly specified hypothetical message discussed above is itself the evidence of its intelligent source, the highly specified genetic information and the extraordinarily high level of functional complexity of the bacterium, are themselves the evidence of its Intelligent Designer.
There is nothing even approaching conclusive evidence that any life form “simpler” than a bacterium ever existed. To get a range on the enormous challenges involved in bridging the gaping chasm between non-life and life, consider the following:
“The difference between a mixture of simple chemicals and a bacterium, is much more profound than the gulf between a bacterium and an elephant.” (Dr. Robert Shapiro, Professor Emeritus of Chemistry, NYU)
and distinguished biologist, Dr. Lynn Margulis:
“To go from bacterium to people is less of a step than to go from a mixture of amino acids to a bacterium.”
If you wish to assert that this quantum leap was the result of some as yet unknown, undirected naturalistic process, then demonstrate it conclusively using empirical evidence like any other scientific hypothesis.

And all this, is much simpler words, is what shmogt has been talking about here, and getting insulted for it.
 
Ok people stop attacking me personally an taking the smallest none important details and forcing me to explain them when they hold no relevance. Seriously relax and stop to think about it before just commenting on how I wrote something.

What, where, when, why, and how (5 questions) did everything start? Ok so what made the universe not just earth. Than why was earth given life? On the first day ever that a creature was made why would it evolve? Think about it. It has no enemies, no food sources, no need for shelter. It had no reason to evolve. Evolution had to be programmed into it from day one. It had to have the genetic makeup to be A-sexual and give birth to others. It had to be so complex in order to do anything and yet it was day one never existed before.

I know this may be tough to wrap your heads around, but please seriously think about it. I am only sharing information and would like to talk with all of you about it and see what your views are. I am not nor have ever tried to get into a debate with anyone so please don't quite this and start telling a bunch of useless stuff that has no relevance to my actual point here. If you think it's crazy or do not understand please simple say I do not get this part etc. and I will elaborate on it.

I am asking the 5 questions to all of this

Edit: thanks guy above you are understanding my true thoughts.
 
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Still no your not understanding. I am not asking the process of evolution. I have learned about it in school and read Charles Darwin's book so I'm pretty familiar on how it works. My question is absolute day one who what where when how was the first every cell creature made and why would it's genetic makeup instal a evolution process into it? I'm talking stage one creature not a second form which has already evolved and than continues to evolve to fit its surroundings over millions of years. The complete first. Everything I have said in this thread I am talking day 1.
1. The early Earth had a chemically reducing atmosphere.
2. This atmosphere, exposed to energy in various forms, produced simple organic compounds ("monomers").
3. These compounds accumulated in a "soup", which may have been concentrated at various locations (shorelines, oceanic vents etc.).
4. By further transformation, more complex organic polymers – and ultimately life – developed in the soup.

Read more here. Wikipedia is perhaps not the best resource, but it's better than nothing. I'm sure there are a good amount of books and documentaries on the matter.

EDIT: And why do you type "know" when you mean "no" and vice versa. Very confusing.
 
Strittan
1. The early Earth had a chemically reducing atmosphere.
2. This atmosphere, exposed to energy in various forms, produced simple organic compounds ("monomers").
3. These compounds accumulated in a "soup", which may have been concentrated at various locations (shorelines, oceanic vents etc.).
4. By further transformation, more complex organic polymers – and ultimately life – developed in the soup.

Read more here. Wikipedia is perhaps not the best resource, but it's better than nothing. I'm sure there are a good amount of books and documentaries on the matter.

EDIT: And why do you type "know" when you mean "no" and vice versa. Very confusing.

This answers nothing of day one it is all after the fact things. What created atmosphere to start this process? Also it is just a theory as to what happens.

The know and no thing is confusing for me too it's my fault as I have to answer so many things and start to get confused. Plus typing on my phone doesn't help. So sorry for any of that.
 
I don't understand why Shmogt keeps asking questions to a guy that belitles his education and calls him ignorant. And even the other more AUP abiding members here from the atheist camp cannot conceal how much of a BLIND FAITH you are yourselves experiencing when you reply to someone that asks basically "HOW DID WE EVOLVE TO THIS? WHY DID WE EVOLVE TO THIS?" that Science solves those questions.

The standard and scientific atheist answer to how did we evolve is evolution. It's blind nothing.

The answer to why is typically there is no why, because there is no evidence of a reason.

What blind faith?

The obvious conclusion is that both the code and the sophisticated molecular machinery are the result of intelligent purpose and intervention.
No, the obvious answer is that this

All human beings from time immemorial have, based on reason and experience, operated under the principle that highly specified information (i.e. drawings on cave walls, inscriptions in stone, poetry, computer code, etc.), and functional complexity beyond a certain level (bicycle, tape recorder, computers, etc.), are always the result of intelligent purpose and intervention.

is misleading because it assumes that nature can't make things that are as complex as computer, bicycles, etc.

We can't make solar system, therefore it is beyond our technology and understanding, therefore it is designed. Sounds a bit silly.

EDIT, well the second part I quoted is not misleading in content (it might be misinterpreted though), it's actually true. People like to assume that things of a certain complexity are designed, but that is not proof. It's an assumption.

On the first day ever that a creature was made why would it evolve? Think about it. It has no enemies, no food sources, no need for shelter.
That's obviously wrong, if it had no food, it would have died and we would not be here.

You may have researched evolution, but it doesn't seem like you understand it.

Evolution had to be programmed into it from day one.
No because evolution is not programmed into anything.
It had to have the genetic makeup to be A-sexual and give birth to others.
Yes, or it would have gone extinct.

It had to be so complex in order to do anything and yet it was day one never existed before
Realize that before life, there were ever increasing non living chemical reactions taking place. The story of life starts before the first living creature. DNA predates the cell.
 
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What, where, when, why, and how (5 questions) did everything start? Ok so what made the universe not just earth. Than why was earth given life? On the first day ever that a creature was made why would it evolve? Think about it. It has no enemies, no food sources, no need for shelter. It had no reason to evolve. Evolution had to be programmed into it from day one. It had to have the genetic makeup to be A-sexual and give birth to others. It had to be so complex in order to do anything and yet it was day one never existed before.
To understand it all. Well, no one understands it all, but to understand as much of it as possible you need to study tons of physics and chemistry. Then you'll have a much greater understanding about how things work.

It's like you expect anyone on this forum can explain everything, but that's not the case. We are not scientists, but there are good scientists out there, and I suggest you dig into their theories instead of asking us about everything.

This answers nothing of day one it is all after the fact things. What created atmosphere to start this process? Also it is just a theory as to what happens.
Yes, they're all just theories, but they do make sense to a good amount of people (including me).
 
My question is absolute day one who what where when how was the first every cell creature made and why would it's genetic makeup instal a evolution process into it?

Strittan has handled this one pretty well:

1. The early Earth had a chemically reducing atmosphere.
2. This atmosphere, exposed to energy in various forms, produced simple organic compounds ("monomers").
3. These compounds accumulated in a "soup", which may have been concentrated at various locations (shorelines, oceanic vents etc.).
4. By further transformation, more complex organic polymers – and ultimately life – developed in the soup.

Read more here. Wikipedia is perhaps not the best resource, but it's better than nothing. I'm sure there are a good amount of books and documentaries on the matter.

And the article he links to explains it far better than I can! I'd really advise you to read it, slowly, and try and understand it.

The process of replication and metabolism that I described as part of cells continually replacing themselves is what drives evolution. There's no reason for it, it's just what happens because that's how the chemical process works, no differently than any other chemical process has an action and reaction.

This answers nothing of day one it is all after the fact things. What created atmosphere to start this process? Also it is just a theory as to what happens.

Don't make the mistake of using the term "theory" in the way that it's been so often misused already in this thread.

A scientific theory isn't like Miss Marple having a theory about who committed a murder. For a scientific theory to exist it has to have been explored and verified.

All the answers you're looking for are widely available. How did cells first start? How did the environment needed for cells to live first start? How did our planet form to enable an atmosphere that allowed cells to live first start? How did our sun form to enable our planet to form to enable an atmosphere that allowed cells to live first start?

We can keep going back further and further and there are some pretty solid theories to back up most things right the way back to the big bang. If you don't understand them, that's entirely fair enough - they're sometimes quite difficult to understand.

But each time you ask "why?" something happened you get further from the point. "Why?" is a great question but when you're using it in order to try and find a reason for simple scientific processes then you handicap your willingness to understand. As soon as you ask "why are we on this planet?" then you're into the realms of the mystical and that's not something that science can be used to answer.

On the first day ever that a creature was made why would it evolve? Think about it. It has no enemies, no food sources, no need for shelter. It had no reason to evolve. Evolution had to be programmed into it from day one. It had to have the genetic makeup to be A-sexual and give birth to others. It had to be so complex in order to do anything and yet it was day one never existed before.

Again.

You're misunderstanding the processes by which life works.

Things don't evolve for a reason, they evolve as a result of their surroundings. It's not in the genetic makeup to evolve. It's in the genetic makeup to live, so cells replicate and reproduce. This replicating and reproduction doesn't always result in the cell being the same, but some of these mutations have a side-effect of making the cell better suited to its surroundings than another cell, and this is what defines evolution.

For the last time: Evolution doesn't need a "reason". It just happens.

If you need to believe everything has a reason as part of your faith, then go nuts - that's up to you. But you cannot attempt to justify chemical and biological processes with reasoning because that isn't the way the universe works.
 
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KenHam2.jpg


Seek truth. :D
 
What, where, when, why, and how (5 questions) did everything start?Ok so what made the universe not just earth.

See the many posts in this thread about string theory and the findings of particle physics.

Than why was earth given life?

Again, has been covered thoroughly in this thread. Because the universe is infinite, there was bound to be a place where all the necessary ingredients for life came together. That place happened to be Earth (and most likely, a few other places as well).

On the first day ever that a creature was made why would it evolve?

Because, (again, this has been covered) cells die off and need to be replaced all the time. These new cells are never exactly the same for a number of reasons, including simply the atmosphere's effect on living cells, and the chemical process of aging. So, the rest of this:

Think about it. It has no enemies, no food sources, no need for shelter. It had no reason to evolve. Evolution had to be programmed into it from day one. It had to have the genetic makeup to be A-sexual and give birth to others. It had to be so complex in order to do anything and yet it was day one never existed before.

is irrelevant. Species will change even if they're not hunted, starving, or whatever.
 
Strittan
To understand it all. Well, no one understands it all, but to understand as much of it as possible you need to study tons of physics and chemistry. Then you'll have a much greater understanding about how things work.

It's like you expect anyone on this forum can explain everything, but that's not the case. We are not scientists, but there are good scientists out there, and I suggest you dig into their theories instead of asking us about everything.

Yes, they're all just theories, but the do make sense to a good amount of people (including me).

I could be one of those super smart scientist just like any of you could be that's why it offends me when instantly no one reads at all what I write and just starts calling me dumb and that school has failed me.

I said I don't want to debate it or ask for answer because for sure no one knows them since every single person in the world is asking the same ones. I just want to see others views on it. Just like a real scientist would do. Comes up with a theory that seems insane and no one has heard of before than discuses it with others.

I really do appreciate that person listing a detailed amount of information and giving references and also think that may be how plants are made, but it doesn't answer how it all started. For atmosphere to do a bunch of things and create a planet what made the atmosphere? What gave it the ability to be able to do that? For every theory that's out there, there is only a million more questions.
 
I could be one of those super smart scientist just like any of you could be that's why it offends me when instantly no one reads at all what I write and just starts calling me dumb and that school has failed me.

I said I don't want to debate it or ask for answer because for sure no one knows them since every single person in the world is asking the same ones. I just want to see others views on it. Just like a real scientist would do. Comes up with a theory that seems insane and no one has heard of before than discuses it with others.

I really do appreciate that person listing a detailed amount of information and giving references and also think that may be how plants are made, but it doesn't answer how it all started. For atmosphere to do a bunch of things and create a planet what made the atmosphere? What gave it the ability to be able to do that? For every theory that's out there, there is only a million more questions.

Many of these questions are answered by physics and chemistry. Can I tell you exactly what all these answers are? No, I'm not a physicist or a chemist. But I realize that those answers have been found. Just because you don't know the answers doesn't mean the questions are unsolvable mysteries that must be divine miracles.
 
huskeR32
Many of these questions are answered by physics and chemistry. Can I tell you exactly what all these answers are? No, I'm not a physicist or a chemist. But I realize that those answers have been found. Just because you don't know the answers doesn't mean the questions are unsolvable mysteries that must be divine miracles.

Lol none of those questions have been answered. We know what chemicals make up certain planets and we know possible theories as to how they are made. We know nothing of what makes the chemicals that make them.

I'm talking deeper than anyone else had mentioned in this thread. Big bang theory, string theory, doesn't matter. They don't answer the true origins they simply give outlines as to what happened after.

If string theory is right and there is multiple universe with many things happening in each of them. Yes it's interesting to think of, but still useless because it doesn't answer how the very first one started. The veeeeerrrry first anything is what I'm talking about. Who made that?
 
I really do appreciate that person listing a detailed amount of information and giving references and also think that may be how plants are made, but it doesn't answer how it all started. For atmosphere to do a bunch of things and create a planet what made the atmosphere? What gave it the ability to be able to do that? For every theory that's out there, there is only a million more questions.

Please go and read my previous post. Your questions are provoking so many answers that you're managing to post a couple of times while I'm trying to respond, so you're missing out on a lot of really key stuff.

Who made that?

Not God.

The second you say "it must have been God" then you have to ask yourself exactly the same question - where did the almighty being come from?

If you can believe God is infinite but not the origins of the universe, then we're wasting our time here.
 
Yes it's interesting to think of, but still useless because it doesn't answer how the very first one started. The veeeeerrrry first anything is what I'm talking about. Who made that?

And if the answer was a deity of some kind, (though there's NO evidence to suggest such a thing), how would that put your mind at ease - for you would still need to apply the same questions to that deity.
 
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