Do you believe in God?

[TrdScionxB2]

There is no faith in air or gravity. There are theories however. We can make predictions when it comes to both air and gravity. This allows us to verify what we know about them and gives us the ability to check for error by proving our theories wrong. You can't do that with God.

And as hfs has said, we can also measure air and gravity. Not God.

I was a Christian for over a decade until I stopped believing and considered what it meant to be Christian. The answer was, being an illogical person. The Bible has made no successful predictions and contains no information that is useful in helping us understand the world around us. What it does contains is myths and contradictions. Study the Bible more, and then compare it to reality.

Well sir, wouldn't better to be a Christian & if heaven & hell isn't real I've still lived a good life, but if it is real I'll be heaven bound & won't go to hell.

All of those can and have been demonstrated to a scientific standard of evidence and most importantly can be falsified.

Not a single bit of it requires faith at all, if you are going to try and use example such as this please ensure that you are using them accurately.

Write anything in vague enough terms and wait long enough and they 'will come to pass'. Astrology is based on exactly that, as are the ramblings of Nostradamus.

While the thought is kind please don't, I have zero need for it at all.

Your going to wish for prayers for you when your still down here for Armageddon & the anti Christ, or while your in hell. If your not saved I'm sorry to say your going to hell.

 

[Scaff]

Well. These people scoffing at the Bible are fulfilling prophecies. 2 Peter 3:4 says "In the last day scoffers will come."

Rather vague and not even a prophecy (unless you have proof that its the end of days - a claim that has been being made since the very start of Christianity - in two millennia it still hasn't happened)

Also Israel becoming a nation in one day is in Isaiah 66:8.

The paper proposing the end of British Rule in Palestine and the establishment of a Jewish state was presented to the UN on the 3rd September 1947 and was not actioned (British Rule ended) until 15th May 1948....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel#Independence_and_first_years

....at which point an Arab / Israeli war promptly broke out and lasted for a full year, with Israel becoming a UN member in May 1949.

That's near two years for Israel to become a nation, not one day, please do not be this miss-leading again.

 

[ScouserInExile]

Well. These people scoffing at the Bible are fulfilling prophecies. 2 Peter 3:4 says "In the last day scoffers will come." Also Israel becoming a nation in one day is in Isaiah 66:8.

That people will mock a religion is hardly a far out prediction, is it? It's something that has been happening since religion existed.

I've read a few variations on Isiah 66:8 and I'm struggling to make the leap to it predicting Israel's existence. Even if it straight up said that, would that not be like me saying that I predict that my wife is going to get punched in the face tonight then going home, punching her in the face and declaring myself a prophet? It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy

 

[Scaff]

Stop double posting, we have an edit button, please use it.

Well sir, wouldn't better to be a Christian & if heaven & hell isn't real I've still lived a good life, but if it is real I'll be heaven bound & won't go to hell.

And what if the Norse gods are the real ones? Or the Egyptian's actually had it right or the Hindu's?

You have no more proof of Christianity being right that any of the ones I have mentioned about, as such you are hedging you bets on nothing at all.

Personally I have no intention of submitting to a ridiculous dogma (large amount of which I don't agree with) to go to a place that doesn't exist.

Your going to wish for prayers for you when your still down here for Armageddon & the anti Christ, or while your in hell. If your not saved I'm sorry to say your going to hell.

Your here to debate and discuss not preach. I've asked you politely not to do it.

You do however seem quite certain that I'm off to hell, can you let me know exactly how you know it exists (and the bible say so is not proof).

 

[ScouserInExile]

Well sir, wouldn't better to be a Christian & if heaven & hell isn't real I've still lived a good life, but if it is real I'll be heaven bound & won't go to hell.
.

And this brings me on to my next big problem with religion.

You are saying that you are living a good life because of the reward you will get once it's all over? Right? What a dreadful, selfish reason for being a good person that is. You're only being good to others because of the payoff? Where's the humanity in that? Where's the charity? Why can't you lead a good life just because it benefits others, rather than because you will get something out of it?

 

[Bobalob]

Well sir, wouldn't better to be a Christian & if heaven & hell isn't real I've still lived a good life, but if it is real I'll be heaven bound & won't go to hell.

Your going to wish for prayers for you when your still down here for Armageddon & the anti Christ, or while your in hell. If your not saved I'm sorry to say your going to hell.

You sir, are going to super awesome unicorn hell. Your sickening blasphemy will be punished for eternity.

I will sacrifice 100 xl bacon double cheeseburgers in your name, I can only pray it be enough.

Edit: prayer in solitude has provided a vision! A furthar amount of several big tasty's and a large bucket of chicken may tip the balance in your favour!

Oh and gravy the GOOD gravy, unicorns will be pleased.

 

[TrdScionxB2]

Stop double posting, we have an edit button, please use it.

And what if the Norse gods are the real ones? Or the Egyptian's actually had it right or the Hindu's?

You have no more proof of Christianity being right that any of the ones I have mentioned about, as such you are hedging you bets on nothing at all.

Personally I have no intention of submitting to a ridiculous dogma (large amount of which I don't agree with) to go to a place that doesn't exist.

Your here to debate and discuss not preach. I've asked you politely not to do it.

You do however seem quite certain that I'm off to hell, can you let me know exactly how you know it exists (and the bible say so is not proof).

I'm sorry about the double post. & I don't wish you to go to hell. I know pretty much nothing I say is going to make you believe. Believing in God & Jesus just takes faith. & about heaven & hell. There are books of people that have been to heaven & hell. God still loves you even if you don't.

 

[Brett]

I've been through similiar indoctrination.

You must realise this is a myth,

Here is the GTP Version:
Jordan (Site Founder aka GTP_God) creates GTP,
He allows 2 members to join. Called GTP_Adam & GTP_Eve.
GTP_Eve posts in the Apple sub-forum. Which Jordan hates!

Jordan decides everyone that joins GTP from now on deserves to be banned.
Instead of forgiving GTP_Eve, he waits till his son, GTP_Jesus joins GTP and then bans him.

Now everyone still deserves to be banned but he doesnt have to Ban all the members or future members and all they have to do is PM him with the subject "I love you" .. and some thanks and praise in the message body every now and again.

Would you say it was fair and just to punish GTP_Jesus for GTP_Eve's post in the Apple Subforum?

What about everyone having to PM Jordan telling him they love him?

All hail Jordan, Master and Creator of the Glorious GTPlanet!

 

[Exorcet]

Well sir, wouldn't better to be a Christian & if heaven & hell isn't real I've still lived a good life, but if it is real I'll be heaven bound & won't go to hell.

And if the Vikings are right? Then you will not have a glorious death, as Christianity values all the wrong things, especially down playing the importance of taking pride in yourself and displaying your glory. To be safe you should probably go build a successful business and then purchase many worldly good. If you don't, you will not have lived a good life.

Or what if the real test is that God wants us to realize that reason is the only thing we can rely on, and thus he sends believers to hell and atheists enter heaven.

You're in no safer a position than me, however you're also less likely to give up your current ideas in the face of new evidence, which actually makes your position more dangerous.

 

[Scaff]

I'm sorry about the double post. & I don't wish you to go to hell.

I didn't say you wished me to go to hell, however you did clearly say I was going to hell.

I know pretty much nothing I say is going to make you believe.

Proof to a scientific standard, the very same thing that has proven the existence of everything in the universe.

Believing in God & Jesus just takes faith.

Which I have repeatedly said in this thread I have no issue with, its when that faith is described as proof (without any proof being provided) or used to harm others that I start to object.

There are books of people that have been to heaven & hell.

Fiction doesn't really count and if your referring to Near Death Experiences, we have done that one to death (pun intended).

God still loves you even if you don't.

If I don't love who? I can't love something that doesn't exist and loving myself would be a tad egotistical.

 

[TrdScionxB2]

I didn't say you wished me to go to hell, however you did clearly say I was going to hell.

Proof to a scientific standard, the very same thing that has proven the existence of everything in the universe.

Which I have repeatedly said in this thread I have no issue with, its when that faith is described as proof (without any proof being provided) or used to harm others that I start to object.

Fiction doesn't really count and if your referring to Near Death Experiences, we have done that one to death (pun intended).

If I don't love who? I can't love something that doesn't exist and loving myself would be a tad egotistical.

Like I said earlier, pretty much nothing I say is going to change your mind. So I'm going to stop for now. I have other thing I need to do. I'm not being mean, I really have things I need to do right now. So goodbye for now

 

[ScouserInExile]

I notice trdscion has continuously picked and chosen the posts he responds to, in order to get his point across without encountering any inconvenient truths.

Now, a lazy person would draw parallels with organized religions at this point...

 

[homeforsummer]

"In the last day scoffers will come."

People were often hungry in those days, I suspect they expected a rush for the dinner queue.

 

[axletramp]

It's OK, Jesus could knock up some sardine sandwiches in no time!

 

[Scaff]

Like I said earlier, pretty much nothing I say is going to change your mind. So I'm going to stop for now. I have other thing I need to do. I'm not being mean, I really have things I need to do right now. So goodbye for now

Why have you ignored what I clearly said?

One very simple thing will change my mind, proof to a scientific standard, the exact same as would be required to confirm the existence of anything.

 

[Kingland093]

I've been through similiar indoctrination.

You must realise this is a myth,

Here is the GTP Version:
Jordan (Site Founder aka GTP_God) creates GTP,
He allows 2 members to join. Called GTP_Adam & GTP_Eve.
GTP_Eve posts in the Apple sub-forum. Which Jordan hates!

Jordan decides everyone that joins GTP from now on deserves to be banned.
Instead of forgiving GTP_Eve, he waits till his son, GTP_Jesus joins GTP and then bans him.

Now everyone still deserves to be banned but he doesnt have to Ban all the members or future members and all they have to do is PM him with the subject "I love you" .. and some thanks and praise in the message body every now and again.

Would you say it was fair and just to punish GTP_Jesus for GTP_Eve's post in the Apple Subforum?

What about everyone having to PM Jordan telling him they love him?

Thats a creative analogy but there's a few things wrong with it.
First, God sent Jesus and didn't wait for him to turn up
Second, Jesus died in atonement of the sins of the world not as a punishment for Adam and Eve's sin
Thirdly, you are not forced to believe in God and pray to him and praise him. He gave us free will so you can chose not to believe in him

 

[Azuremen]

Thirdly, you are not forced to believe in God and pray to him and praise him. He gave us free will so you can chose not to believe in him

No, but you are encouraged to because of the fire and brimstone

The rest of it is all hear say based on the Bible, which as about a billion versions and translations. And goofy non-sense like the Trinity, which was just kind of based on a verse in John that can't really be found in the Latin or Greek manuscripts.

You're entire argument revolves around "this is true because it is true." You've not even expressed why you feel this way beyond it was revealed to you in the Bible, but which version, and who encouraged you to read it? How were you educated on it and have read differing versions?

 

[Kingland093]

Just because the Trinity can be confusing doesn't mean it's "goofy nonsense"

I'm a believer because I was born and raised Catholic, and I currently go to a Christian school too.
If you're wondering which version I've read, it's the New American Bible and I haven't yet read it in Latin or Greek because I don't know enough Latin to actually read it and accurately translate.

 

[gamerdog6482]

Just because the Trinity can be confusing doesn't mean it's "goofy nonsense"

I'm a believer because I was born and raised Catholic, and I currently go to a Christian school too.
If you're wondering which version I've read, it's the New American Bible and I haven't yet read it in Latin or Greek because I don't know enough Latin to actually read it and accurately translate.

So...still not seeing any proof.
If I believed everything that I was "born and raised" to believe, I would be in an asylum.

 

[Kingland093]

So...still not seeing any proof.
If I believed everything that I was "born and raised" to believe, I would be in an asylum.

I wasn't trying to prove anything in that last post.

 

[gamerdog6482]

I wasn't trying to prove anything in that last post.

I know.

 

[Azuremen]

Just because the Trinity can be confusing doesn't mean it's "goofy nonsense"

I'm a believer because I was born and raised Catholic, and I currently go to a Christian school too.
If you're wondering which version I've read, it's the New American Bible and I haven't yet read it in Latin or Greek because I don't know enough Latin to actually read it and accurately translate.

Oh yes, the Catholic Church. The New American Bible is missing more than I think it should when compared to the New King James version.

That aside, you don't need to read about it much to understand the Trinity is based on the verse in John that states that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one and the same. Basically, the statement of the Godhead. The issue is that latter bit, the mention of them being the same, didn't show up for a few hundred years after Christ. But somehow it is the basis for the Trinity, which honestly just baffles me because it means God sacrificed himself (not much of a sacrifice if you ask me then) to absolve us from our sins. I feel the Trinity cheapens the importance of the Crucifixion by lessening the importance of giving up one's only child.

The fact you were born and raised Catholic, and now are being educated at a Christian school (going to guess you're in your teens), tells me that you very much have not explored other aspects of religion or faith. You cling to this dogma the Church has produced because it is what you were raised with, effectively spoon feed from an early age to deny all other things.

There is no reason why Allah is any less valid than God or Elohim. Your claims that your faith is correct and everyone else is wrong is based entirely on your personal and subjective experiences. My personal experiences in life have turned me away from God more and more, to the point I find Him almost cruel if he condemns all those that fail to meet his tests to hell, all while claiming to love all of humanity. The Catholic Church makes this even more shallow by having confession and indulgences to absolve one of sins, and Baptism is more important than belief or deeds I'd say. Then you can pull at the Mary the worship, the Saints, and how the Pope is treated.

I know.

Pointless spam post is pointless.

 

[Kingland093]

You cling to this dogma the Church has produced because it is what you were raised with, effectively spoon feed from an early age to deny all other things.

My personal experiences in life have turned me away from God more and more, to the point I find Him almost cruel if he condemns all those that fail to meet his tests to hell, all while claiming to love all of humanity. The Catholic Church makes this even more shallow by having confession and indulgences to absolve one of sins, and Baptism is more important than belief or deeds I'd say. Then you can pull at the Mary the worship, the Saints, and how the Pope is treated.

Well it's a dogma, so by definition it's infallible so all believers must follow it

God does love all of humanity and never stops trying to draw us to him.

Oh and Catholics don't worship Mary, or the Saints, or the Pope. That's a common misconception

 

[DQuaN]

The thing that gets me (and I don't mean to offend anyone), is how evil god is.

I'm a good person. I give to charity, I help others where I can, I have upstanding morals ( I don't need religion to teach me them either) and I try to live my life right.

However, because I don't worship "God", when I die, he's going to make it so I burn in hell for all eternity?

Nice...

 

[Kingland093]

Well do you believe in God? And that Jesus is your savior and the savior of the world? If so, you'll go to heaven

 

[Touring Mars]

Well do you believe in God? And that Jesus is your savior and the savior of the world? If so, you'll go to heaven

And collect $200 as you pass go.

 

[Azuremen]

Well it's a dogma, so by definition it's infallible so all believers must follow it

Well, a lot of religions have different dogmas, so what makes yours correct versus theirs?

God does love all of humanity and never stops trying to draw us to him.

If he loved us and wanted us saved, he would do so without us appeasing his ego - God is a narcissist, and Christianity mirrors that. I have a post in there I'll dig up on that subject if you want.

Oh and Catholics don't worship Mary, or the Saints, or the Pope. That's a common misconception

No, it isn't. Most people realize they don't hold those figures to the same level as God, but they do worship them in the sense of prayer, Hail Mary's, etc. Then you have all the icons that are prayed to, which goes against the idolatry aspect.

Well do you believe in God? And that Jesus is your savior and the savior of the world? If so, you'll go to heaven

Unless you didn't get baptized correctly. Then you're screwed.

 

[DQuaN]

Well do you believe in God? And that Jesus is your savior and the savior of the world? If so, you'll go to heaven

No.

So am I going to burn in hell for eternity?

 

[Exorcet]

Well it's a dogma, so by definition it's infallible so all believers must follow it

Contradicted by all the other infallible dogmas across the world.

God does love all of humanity and never stops trying to draw us to him.

Purposely inflicting pain, ignorance, and suffering is not love.

Oh and Catholics don't worship Mary, or the Saints, or the Pope. That's a common misconception

God is Zues, the rest of them are Athena, Neptune, and Hercules.

 

[CodeRedR51]

God does love all of humanity and never stops trying to draw us to him.

Then why not physically show himself? None of this faith bullcrap, I want to see this "God" with my own two eyes.