FIA Race Discussion [Archive]

[zzz_pt]

And I thought last year was already a joke. Good I gave up on this whole mess. It's even less fair and transparent this year.


Also EDIT,

2019 Nations Cup Stage 1 Winners:
OC Australia / Nik_Makozi / 7604
AS Japan / Akagi_1942mi / 8990
EM Germany / TRL_LIGHTNING / 9341
NA Canada / Turismo-Deafsun / 8654
SA Brazil / IOF_RACING17 / 7740

Am I reading this correctly? PD now has 5 regions, and the ones that they splitted are the smallest ones?

EMEA, according to kudosprime has around 4.200.000 players (2.000.000 only in the UK, Germany and France). The entire rest of the world has just over 2.500.000 players... but those 2.500.000 are splitted into 4 regions... really?*

The UK alone has probably more players than the whole SA + OC regions combined... I wouldn't be too surprised if british players were the ones who care less about FIA races / live events / sport mode. The same goes for other countries in the EMEA region where the competition is off the charts.

This syetem will only push away people from the EMEA region. People that would, under fair and equal conditions, qualify for live events.


*I know smaller countries with a fraction of a % are not in the kudosprime page and they can add up to a a good number. But they wouldn't change the figures that much imo.

 

[Dodge Lamb]

The only thing I wanna mention with this manufacturer point table is that I won multiple races in this season, and somehow I'm listed as dead last for Alfa Romeo even behind the player in Oceania with 1200 points LMAO

Oh wait I'm not behind Oceania I'm blind but still I feel like I did a little more than 68 points as I'm pretty sure I'm the highest point total out of every region with multiple wins

Oceania can stay down there though, literally last in the entire region even with the gr4 car smh

I had to edit this like 3 times because I'm stupid, welcome to waking up

 

[TheConzio98]

The only thing I wanna mention with this manufacturer point table is that I won multiple races in this season, and somehow I'm listed as dead last for Alfa Romeo even behind the player in Oceania with 1200 points LMAO

Oh wait I'm not behind Oceania I'm blind but still I feel like I did a little more than 68 points as I'm pretty sure I'm the highest point total out of every season with multiple wins

Oceania can stay down there though, literally last in the entire region even with the gr4 car smh

The CSA and NA regions were accidentally switched on the table. Your score is the 198 one

 

[Dodge Lamb]

The CSA and NA regions were accidentally switched on the table. Your score is the 198 one

god I really hope so. Looking at 68 is making me feel like I was trash LMAO

 

[HellzFire]

And I thought last year was already a joke. Good I gave up on this whole mess. It's even less fair and transparent this year.


Also EDIT,



Am I reading this correctly? PD now has 5 regions, and the ones that they splitted are the smallest ones?

EMEA, according to kudosprime has around 4.200.000 players (2.000.000 only in the UK, Germany and France). The entire rest of the world has just over 2.500.000 players... but those 2.500.000 are splitted into 4 regions... really?*

The UK alone has probably more players than the whole SA + OC regions combined... I wouldn't be too surprised if british players were the ones who care less about FIA races / live events / sport mode. The same goes for other countries in the EMEA region where the competition is off the charts.

This syetem will only push away people from the EMEA region. People that would, under fair and equal conditions, qualify for live events.


*I know smaller countries with a fraction of a % are not in the kudosprime page and they can add up to a a good number. But they wouldn't change the figures that much imo.

Those numbers represent little to nothing for FIA races. I would be extremely surprised if more than 5-10k players play the cups in EMEA.

 

[mthomas_95]

Those numbers represent little to nothing for FIA races. I would be extremely surprised if more than 5-10k players play the cups in EMEA.

I've been through every regions Nations Stage 1 result and counted how many scored at least 1 point:

EMEA - 17,039 (67%)
N America - 2,965 (12%)
Asia - 2,938 (12%)
S America - 1,595 (6%)
Oceania - 877 (3%)

As things stand only 17% of competitors at the Manufacturers event will be European, and Oceania 25%. I mean on what planet is this balanced

 

[GT_Alex74]

Wow, this is even worse than what I estimated

 

[HellzFire]

I've been through every regions Nations Stage 1 result and counted how many scored at least 1 point:

EMEA - 17,039 (67%)
N America - 2,965 (12%)
Asia - 2,938 (12%)
S America - 1,595 (6%)
Oceania - 877 (3%)

As things stand only 17% of competitors at the Manufacturers event will be European, and Oceania 25%. I mean on what planet is this balanced

A bit above what I expected. Decent number of players in CSA region compared with Asia and NA.

 

[Timlour]

I've been through every regions Nations Stage 1 result and counted how many scored at least 1 point:

EMEA - 17,039 (67%)
N America - 2,965 (12%)
Asia - 2,938 (12%)
S America - 1,595 (6%)
Oceania - 877 (3%)

As things stand only 17% of competitors at the Manufacturers event will be European, and Oceania 25%. I mean on what planet is this balanced

Not sure I understand these stats. Are they saying that 25% of 877 Oceania players and 17% of 17,039 EMEA players would qualify for a live event? Where's the unbalance?

Not disagreeing with you, I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Just having some difficulty connecting the dots here. For all I know the unbalance is staring me right in the face.

 

[bloodyboyblue]

Not sure I understand these stats. Are they saying that 25% of 877 Oceania players and 17% of 17,039 EMEA players would qualify for a live event? Where's the unbalance?

Not disagreeing with you, I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Just having some difficulty connecting the dots here. For all I know the unbalance is staring me right in the face.

Think he meant those percentages are of the players making the world finals. 17% of the players there would be from Europe, and 25% would be from Oceania, which would be pretty silly.

The only way PD is going to take notice is if every single top player in the world (or even just a region) boycotted the first few races, but that would never happen. So they’ll just assume everything’s peachy.

 

[HellzFire]

Not sure I understand these stats. Are they saying that 25% of 877 Oceania players and 17% of 17,039 EMEA players would qualify for a live event? Where's the unbalance?

Not disagreeing with you, I'm sure you know what you're talking about. Just having some difficulty connecting the dots here. For all I know the unbalance is staring me right in the face.

His point is that EMEA has 67% of the player base that plays FIA events, Oceania have 6, but Oceania is getting 25% of spots and EMEA 17%.

That's a bit misleading, cause EMEA can only have 33% of the spots at best if all their drivers get into the top 3.

Also, EMEA has between 40-50% of the spots for Nations on world tours depending on the place it's hosted. The rest are more or less divided evenly between the 4 regions.

IMO the Nations system without the limit per nation would be almost perfect for every region. The number of spots is more or less fair.

Manu was ok too with 3 regions, now with 5, it's tough to find a great system since PD only wants 3 out of 5 on Lan events.

 

[Cuber Tom]

I've been through every regions Nations Stage 1 result and counted how many scored at least 1 point:

EMEA - 17,039 (67%)
N America - 2,965 (12%)
Asia - 2,938 (12%)
S America - 1,595 (6%)
Oceania - 877 (3%)

As things stand only 17% of competitors at the Manufacturers event will be European, and Oceania 25%. I mean on what planet is this balanced

So the percentage of chance of a players qualifing from each region is:
0.035% from EMEA
0.202% from NA
0.204% from Asia
0.564% from SA
1.026% from Oceania

So it was 30 times easier to qualify for the Nurb WT from Oceania than it was from EMEA

 

[HellzFire]

So the percentage of chance of a players qualifing from each region is:
0.035% from EMEA
0.202% from NA
0.204% from Asia
0.564% from SA
1.026% from Oceania

So it was 30 times easier to qualify for the Nurb WT from Oceania than it was from EMEA

If you consider all players in this list to have the same skill level, yes.

 

[zzz_pt]

If you consider all players in this list to have the same skill level, yes.

Which is probably the truth. Unless you believe some regions have a higher % of aliens or higher % of bad players in their populations.

If you pick 10.000 players from each region, you'll probably get roughly the same average pace between them.

But if you have 17% of the spots for a region with close to 70% of players scoring points in FIA races, it's simply unfair.

No matter how you cut it, EMEA players are being unfairly treated by PD's system.

 

[HellzFire]

Which is probably the true. Unless you believe some regions have a higher % of aliens or higher % of bad players in their populations.

If you pick 10.000 players from each region, you'll probably get roughly the same average pace between them.

But if you have 17% of the spots for a region with close to 70% of players scoring points in FIA races, it's simply unfair.

No matter how you cut it, EMEA players are being unfairly treated by PD's system.

You're probably right. Needed to be more deep on the skill levels to really know it for sure.

I agree with you that for Manufacturers they arent being fairly treated. But, in the system we initally thought it would work out, EMEA still had the most drivers. On this new system, we will have to see how it works out. They might get all the 12 spots, you know. People didnt know how the system would work during the season. I'm 100% sure that Stevegaming would be in if he knew how the rules would work. A lot of drivers just stopped playing when they got their 3 results, which it hurt their chances.

In Nations they definitely arent.

 

[zzz_pt]

You're probably right. Needed to be more deep on the skill levels to really know it for sure.

I agree with you that for Manufacturers they arent being fairly treated. But, in the system we initally thought it would work out, EMEA still had the most drivers. On this new system, we will have to see how it works out. They might get all the 12 spots, you know. People didnt know how the system would work during the season. I'm 100% sure that Stevegaming would be in if he knew how the rules would work. A lot of drivers just stopped playing when they got their 3 results, which it hurt their chances.

In Nations they definitely arent.

Are people from countries in NA, SA, AS and OC limited to 2 drivers per country? I'm not very familiar with the current limits overall, but a driver told me yesterday that there are 10 spots for EMEA, limited to 2 drivers per country. Was he talking about some other event?

 

[HellzFire]

Are people from countries in NA, SA, AS and OC limited to 2 drivers per country? I'm not very familiar with the current limits overall, but a driver told me yesterday that there are 10 spots for EMEA, limited to 2 drivers per country. Was he talking about some other event?

Yes.

On top 16 races we arent, but these races don't matter anymore.

For this next world tour, there were 12 spots for EMEA in fact, because the WT is on Europe and the host region always gets 2 more spots.

 

[Timlour]

So the percentage of chance of a players qualifing from each region is:
0.035% from EMEA
0.202% from NA
0.204% from Asia
0.564% from SA
1.026% from Oceania

So it was 30 times easier to qualify for the Nurb WT from Oceania than it was from EMEA

I think I get it now. The majority of EMEA drivers are less likely to qualify because their numbers are so large compared to the other regions, and this issue became more problematic due to the regional split in America and Asia. I can definitely agree that that's not ideal.

 

[Lost Sheltie]

I had a great race in the Nations at Suzuka at the weekend. Managed to qualify in a solid 6th place in my Beetle in a relatively strong (for me) lobby.

Did my normal of trying to take it easy for the 1st lap, which paid off when someone went off at the 1st corner. Then a guy made a mistake going into Dunlop, and I was up to 4th. He dived back on me at the hairpin, but then made a mistake at 130r so I managed to get 4th and hold onto it. The leader was in an Audi, so I was hoping he would pit, which he did at the end of lap 4, so was up to 3rd. Strangely a lot of people pitted on lap 5 so suddenly he was closing in and I thought his strategy was going to work. Thankfully for me he binned it at the Degners just as he was closing in so I could then concentrate on 1st and 2nd.

1st was clearly suffering with their tyres, so it all started closing up so we went into the chicane nose to tail on the penultimate lap, and I managed to mug 2nd coming out of the chicane and down the straight. Put pressure on 1st and he made a slight mistake at Degner 1 and clipped me, but he held it together and I managed to let him back into the lead. Unfortunately for him he braked slightly too late going into spoon and I took the lead, and held it to the end (being hounded by another Porsche all the way) for my first win in about a year. 1965 seems like a lot of points tbh, but I am not going to complain too hard



ps. I tried to do the Picture in Picture thing, but left the info on the replay camera and couldn't be bothered to save the replay again. Will work on it in the future
pps. If you do want to watch the video but can't be bothered to watch the whole thing then just watch the 1st lap and the last lap and a half as that is the good bits

 

[schnick]

The only thing I wanna mention with this manufacturer point table is that I won multiple races in this season, and somehow I'm listed as dead last for Alfa Romeo even behind the player in Oceania with 1200 points LMAO

Oh wait I'm not behind Oceania I'm blind but still I feel like I did a little more than 68 points as I'm pretty sure I'm the highest point total out of every region with multiple wins

Oceania can stay down there though, literally last in the entire region even with the gr4 car smh

I had to edit this like 3 times because I'm stupid, welcome to waking up

Our only decent Alfa driver @JayOTT decided to not contest FIA from the last season

I've been through every regions Nations Stage 1 result and counted how many scored at least 1 point:

EMEA - 17,039 (67%)
N America - 2,965 (12%)
Asia - 2,938 (12%)
S America - 1,595 (6%)
Oceania - 877 (3%)

As things stand only 17% of competitors at the Manufacturers event will be European, and Oceania 25%. I mean on what planet is this balanced

Wow I did not think we would be last in the participation, I've made a terrible assumption but this will only affect the tiebreaker implementation in my spreadsheet. Also surprised how close NA and Asia are.

So the percentage of chance of a players qualifing from each region is:
0.035% from EMEA
0.202% from NA
0.204% from Asia
0.564% from SA
1.026% from Oceania

So it was 30 times easier to qualify for the Nurb WT from Oceania than it was from EMEA

Another way to spin it is I'm in the top 1% of Oceania, or you are in the top x% for your region, but we know manu is not a good measure of overall skill.

Are people from countries in NA, SA, AS and OC limited to 2 drivers per country? I'm not very familiar with the current limits overall, but a driver told me yesterday that there are 10 spots for EMEA, limited to 2 drivers per country. Was he talking about some other event?

Manufacturer Series World Tour qualification details were released last Thursday.
https://www.gran-turismo.com/au/gtsport/fia2019/detail/

This part was the hardest to interpret at the time (but now makes sense seeing the actual results released):
2) The "Global Manufacturer Ranking" will be created:
The "Manufacturer Ranking Points" from all 5 Regions are totalled to determine the position of a manufacturer in the "Global Manufacturer Ranking"
(If two or more manufacturers have equal amount of points in the "Global Manufacturer Ranking", the selection will be determined following these criteria:
a) the manufacturers with the highest points per Region;
b) the manufacturer with the highest number of affiliation contracts registered at the end of the 2019 Series.
The "Manufacturer Rankings" are not based on an effective point system, but are based on the total amount of points from all Rounds.)

This part was the "easier" part to interpret (took me a few goes):

Competitors Selection
Each of the 12 manufacturers will select their representative drivers following these criteria:

1) The 3 Regions with the highest Manufacturer Ranking Points will be selected;
2) The top players from those 3 Regions are selected as that manufacturer's representatives.
(Note: unlike the Nations Cup, the number of World Tour victories will not be part of the selection criteria.)
(If two or more Regions have equal amount of points, the Region with the highest number of players affiliated to that manufacturer will have priority.
If there are players who forfeit their participation, the next player will be selected following this order of priority:
a) the top player from the Region with the next highest Manufacturer Ranking Points;
b) the player who held the next highest-score from the same Region as the player who forfeited their participation.

Overall thoughts for my 99th post on this forum:
No one would not have thought our manu pick in January would have any bearing for going to Nurburgring, so no one really cared if there were double ups (or even triple ups at the top of the EU table) and @TRL LIGHTNING could try to make McLaren great again (you nearly did). Now we are all in a mad scramble (at least I am) to figure out which manufacturer will give us the best chance of going to any of the remaining world tours if you haven't already signed yet.

I had a spreadsheet which figured out the manu participants by only taking the total scores (best 3 out of 8 per person) and using those to calculate the manufacturer points (the 40, 36, 33, etc. scale) instead of calculating points for every single round and it was reasonably close to the actual final results (McLaren would have made it but instead we have VW RIP). I'm still trying to adjust my spreadsheet to count every round and I think I nearly have it figured out.

In the meantime don't be so surprised that PD kept this a secret, they haven't always revealed selection criteria from the start (2018 Salzburg...) so just be glad that we have an opportunity to take a measured approach for the rest of the year.

 

[anthaliscious]

 

[SAMHAIN85]

Wow ^

 

[Sidawg2]

I think the outcome is skewed somewhat by the counting every round part (completely unprecedented), if people knew every round would count I bet the results would be different.

Will be interesting to see how this next season pans out.

Qualifying for Nations in Oceania is nigh on impossible particularly as one qualifier is actually European so I'm glad this gives people in this region actually a sniff of qualifying.

 

[zzz_pt]

That's ridiculous.

But not surprising unfortunately...

 

[JayOTT]

Regarding region representation in Manufacturers, I believe that PD should for future tours, guarantee the top EMEA player for each of the 12 qualified manufacturers a spot, and only use the points to determine their two small region teammates. That would result in 12 EMEA drivers and an average of 6 from each other region, somewhat closer to the invite ratios used in the Nations/Supra Cup.

 

[05XR8]

200,000 Cr. Thank you!

 

[T_revisio]

The points system has always sucked and now it sucks even worse, there is no fairness, justice or logic in it. So many terrible and strange decisions by the development team. It makes no sense, can anyone explain how this can be a good way to do things? It will just lead to more players leaving the game, out of sheer frustration.

 

[schnick]

100th post *raises the bat* thought it was going to be a good one where I show a screenshot of my glorious spreadsheet calculating all the Manufacturer Series points shedding some light onto any insights, trends and patterns and it would match the official results on the website. However, my assumptions and over simplifications weren't quite accurate enough.

I only gathered the top 200 players overall in each region to reduce manual input and because I thought the top score in every round for every manufacturer would come from a player within the top 200 overall. I found out the hard way that's totally wrong because there are quite a few outliers such as generally fast people using an unpopular manufacturer scoring about 1k-1.5k and doing less than 3 races in the season and just the downright unpopular manufacturers where the "top score" for most rounds were deep down the leaderboard so I had to manually put in a few of those scores. It only worked on Oceania because the player pool is so small compared to the other regions as noted in a previous post.

Nonetheless my "approximation" will be good enough to help me decide what manufacturer to pick for the rest of the year.
(Yes, I still haven't actually signed to a manu I have a shortlist in mind but still can't decide)

They updated one error today, they corrected the Americas regions for Alfa but no other manufacturers...

EDIT: As pointed out by @HellzFire I was wrong about the Americas mixup fix, sorry

 

[05XR8]

.

 

[Adam41]

Finished 2nd overall in EMEA for stage 1 of Nations and I'm taking Manufacturers seriously for the first time in a long time.