Game of Thrones - Caution: contains spoilers & dragonsTV

[mustafur]

I hate talking on here, can't we just have spoilers in the title so we can talk properly, logically you wouldn't go here if you where not caught up in the first place.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

I agree, I just don't want to be the first to do it either!

 

[88GTA]

@Pezzarinho17
Agreed. Varys and Arya must have Fallout fast travel.

 

[Dotini]

A GoT producer has attempted to explain the travel time conundrum this way,

In order to tie up so many loose ends in such a short time there were some liberties taken with time, not only in this finale but during this season as a whole, something that was not lost on fans. It was glaring when characters in one location seemed to go through just a few hours in an episode while other characters elsewhere traversed long distances that would have taken weeks or even months, all in the same episode. It seemed odd for time to tick differently at each location, but it was a necessary storytelling device to push the plot forward.

Bryan Cogman, a story editor and producer on the series, took to Twitter to explain the time differences and why it’s a necessary evil. The explanation was actually quite simple, and makes a ton of sense. As Cogman puts it, it’s better to just skip a ton of the travel time, or have the timelines not necessarily match up than the alternative, which is, as he puts it, “Arya spending four episodes on a boat.”

http://uproxx.com/tv/game-of-thrones-timelines-explained/

In other words, for the purposes of effective storytelling, travel time is sometimes greatly condensed or omitted. The viewer must interpolate that sufficient travel time has elapsed, i.e., "the willing suspension of disbelief".

 

[TheCracker]

*tree'd*

@Pezzarinho17
Agreed. Varys and Arya must have Fallout fast travel.

I think that's one of few things in GoT that isn't depicted well, the passing of time.

Given that The Wall is supposedly 300 miles long, looking at a Westeros map, the distance that Jamie travelled between Riverrun and King's Landing this last episode, was somewhere in the region of 600 miles. On horseback. When Sansa and Jon Snow were visiting the various northern houses, looking for support a few episodes ago, they must have travelled 1000's of miles, yet the show made it feel like a couple of days. The sea journey between Meereen and Sunspear in Doran must be like circumnavigating the globe. Lord Varys accomplished that little trip remarkably quickly!

 

[Pezzarinho17]

...Lord Varys accomplished that little trip remarkably quickly!

Twice!

 

[88GTA]

As @Dotini posted, and I assumed, it was all for the sake of the story. No one wanted to see Arya on a boat for 4 days, of course, but Arya and Varys stood out because they travelled much more quickly than anyone has so far. At least it seems that way.

Varys left Mereen in episode 9(?) was in Dorne by episode 10 and then somewhere else by the end of the episode. At least Dany has dragons for fast travel.

Either way, I'm fine with it. It just stood out more than usual as the writers try to wrap up the series and try to end each story section.

 

[Dotini]

I think that's one of few things in GoT that isn't depicted well, the passing of time.

Agreed - but that isn't the worst of the showrunner's sins. There are plot and character inconsistencies that would make the book reader blanch. But I won't go into them. Yet.


Part of the travel time problem is the scale of Westeros - although it looks a lot like the British Isles, in the fantasy world of George RR Martin it is the size of South America.

 

[TheCracker]

I assume the maps are based on George R. R. Martin's own notes/maps. You'd have thought that he'd have shrunk them down somewhat. The great distances between places make little sense in either the books or the TV show. Only Arya's and maybe Jamie/Brienne's wanderings have needed to be portrayed as lengthy to suit the story.

 

[88GTA]

Part of the travel time problem is the scale of Westeros - although it looks a lot like the British Isles, in the fantasy world of George RR Martin it is the size of South America.

Wait. Just Westeros is the size of South America!?!

 

[Dotini]

Wait. Just Westeros is the size of South America!?!

Well, crudely scaling my world atlas shows a tip-to-tip north-south length of South America to be about 4235 miles. A web search gives 4638, but perhaps that includes offshore possessions(?).

Anyway, I have an officially published set of twelve Game of Thrones maps. Taking the Wall at 300 miles, in the Map of the Known World, Westeros measures out to at least 3780 miles from the southern coast of Dorne to where the Lands of Always Winter disappear and go on north beyond the edge of The Known World.

So yes, Westeros is at least close to the size of South America. It is worth knowing that the Targaryen Dynasty, in uniting the Seven Kingdoms, built a network of roads, notably the Kingsroad, to facilitate travel amongst the realm. Also, both coasts are rich with harbors and rivers, which facilitate travel by ship from kingdom to kingdom. There are no landlocked kingdoms in Westeros.

 

[88GTA]

Aside from the opening credits, I've actually never seen a map of the GOT realm. I'll have to look one up now.

And speaking of maps, my wife just sent me this link about something from the season finale (spoilers). I didn't realize any of it while watching the episode.

 

[Dotini]

Aside from the opening credits, I've actually never seen a map of the GOT realm. I'll have to look one up now.

And speaking of maps, my wife just sent me this link about something from the season finale (spoilers). I didn't realize any of it while watching the episode.

The complexity and history of World of Ice and Fire are like the layers of an onion. And the Maesters of the Citadel, and their hidden agenda(s), are close to the center of it all.

 

[mustafur]

So Essos would be Russia and Asia in one then.

 

[Dotini]

So Essos would be Russia and Asia in one then.

Pretty much so. But we don't know the whole extent of the world - we call it Planetos. It may be that the extreme east of Essos is connected to Westeros over the north pole, but its never been explored in their recorded history. The history, by the way, is kept and dished out by the Maesters, who would seem to tell their own flavor of it. The history includes reports of shattered and vanished civilizations all over the known world, the most recent of which was Valyria, the ancestral origins of House Targaryen.

• 
• click to enlarge

 

[DK]

As an aside, this show really sucks at showing the passage of time.

Spoiler

From another site I go to there's some spoilers from some Spanish dude which cover the entire season, was released around episode 2. EXTREMELY accurate. So I already know whats going down...

Spoiler

So, was this guy right for the last two episodes?

 

[bremics]

As an aside, this show really sucks at showing the passage of time.

Spoiler

So, was this guy right for the last two episodes?

Spoiler

Yep.

 

[mustafur]

To be fair who is to say each perspective is at the same time?

 

[daan]

I hate talking on here, can't we just have spoilers in the title so we can talk properly, logically you wouldn't go here if you where not caught up in the first place.

Knock yourselves out.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

Knock yourselves out.

All hail daan, King in the north!

 

[Caz]

The king in the North!

 

[Dotini]

But who is the rightful King in the North? By the rules of inheritance in Westeros, Winterfell should go to Sansa who is true born (or to Bran, were his whereabouts known), and not to the bastard Jon Snow. But because of the wars to come, I suspect Sansa will not object, but plot deviously with Littlefinger and await developments.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

But who is the rightful King in the North? By the rules of inheritance in Westeros, Winterfell should go to Sansa who is true born (or to Bran, were his whereabouts known), and not to the bastard Jon Snow. But because of the wars to come, I suspect Sansa will not object, but plot deviously with Littlefinger and await developments.

The bastard bit has already been addressed. His supporters have stated that they will disregard bloodline for the fact he is Ned's son.

You can bet that Baelish will spend the entirety of season 7 persuading Sansa to push for superiority over her half brother

 

[Dotini]

The bastard bit has already been addressed. His supporters have stated that they will disregard bloodline for the fact he is Ned's son.

You can bet that Baelish will spend the entirety of season 7 persuading Sansa to push for superiority over her half brother

The irony is that he isn't Ned's son at all, but Lyanna's son by Rhaegar Targaryen. If he were legitimized, he would have a strong claim to the Iron Throne!

 

[GranTurismo guy]

The irony is that he isn't Ned's son at all, but Lyanna's son by Rhaegar Targaryen. If he were legitimized, he would have a strong claim to the Iron Throne!

Indeed. I feel that Dany and Jon will merge very quickly, none of the Starks have an actual thirst to rule the country.

Which brings me back to Baelish. I think that his love for Sansa will be his downfall. He will end up dying for her I think.

 

[Dotini]

Indeed. I feel that Dany and Jon will merge very quickly, none of the Starks have an actual thirst to rule the country.

Which brings me back to Baelish. I think that his love for Sansa will be his downfall. He will end up dying for her I think.

Seven protect the realm, should Littlefinger ascend the throne!

 

[Bram Turismo]

Here I was hoping we'd never see Littlefinger again...

 

[GranTurismo guy]

It's interesting how the three main players are characters that would be perceived by other characters as nothing more than in the background. Jon is the disgraced bastard of Ned stark, Dany was an exiled teenager thousands of miles away, and cersei was always just the wife of one ruler then mother of the next.

 

[Dotini]

It's interesting how the three main players are characters that would be perceived by other characters as nothing more than in the background. Jon is the disgraced bastard of Ned stark, Dany was an exiled teenager thousands of miles away, and cersei was always just the wife of one ruler then mother of the next.

"Queen" Cersei has one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave. It wouldn't surprise me if Jaime killed her while making love to her. Death comes to the Mad Queen. She is on Arya's list!

I don't think Jon is disgraced - except for the fact that somehow he is no longer Lord Commander of the Knight's Watch under highly peculiar circumstances so far unaddressed by the lords of Westeros. He is merely illegitimate. But I recall King Robb talking about a decree legitimizing him way back in season 2(?). What became of the decree/raven?

When Dany left Dragonstone into exile, her brother Viserys was the rightful heir to Aerys Targaryen, the murdered Mad King, her eldest brother Rhaegar having been slain on the Trident by the rebel, Robert Baratheon.

What were the words whispered to Ned by Lyanna at the Tower of Joy? Did she name him Jaeherys as some lip readers claim? If Jon Snow were legitimized as Jaeherys (or Jon) Targaryen, he would have a claim to the Iron Throne that would rival or supersede that of Dany. They might have to fight for it!

 

[GranTurismo guy]

"Queen" Cersei has one foot on a banana peel and the other in the grave. It wouldn't surprise me if Jaime killed her while making love to her. Death comes to the Mad Queen. She is on Arya's list!

I don't think Jon is disgraced - except for the fact that somehow he is no longer Lord Commander of the Knight's Watch under highly peculiar circumstances so far unaddressed by the lords of Westeros. He is merely illegitimate. But I recall King Robb talking about a decree legitimizing him way back in season 2(?). What became of the decree/raven?

When Dany left Dragonstone into exile, her brother Viserys was the rightful heir to Aerys Targaryen, the murdered Mad King, her eldest brother Rhaegar having been slain on the Trident by the rebel, Robert Baratheon.

What were the words whispered to Ned by Lyanna at the Tower of Joy? Did she name him Jaeherys as some lip readers claim? If Jon Snow were legitimized as Jaeherys (or Jon) Targaryen, he would have a claim to the Iron Throne that would rival or supersede that of Dany. They might have to fight for it!

By disgraced I meant illegitimacy itself.