[Gran Turismo 5 @ E3 2010] (SEE POST 1!: New Vids, Pics, Interviews!)

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dazzi
Just wanted to ask what is everyone opinion on Forza 4 being at the E3 already this year 0_o, I know its not the full on topic post, but Personally im shocked and I think its more embarrassing than Polyphony taking 5 years :S mainly because it just seems its the new NFS....
http://battlefront3.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/list.jpg
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Don't want to burst your bubble but the list is fake. Mario galaxy 2 is already out anyway.
 
Anyone knows the time of Sony Press Conference. I live in holland. KTHXBAI :)
 
TokyoDrift
Don't flatter yourself, I wouldn't give you the privilege. Seriously, move on and grow up. My post was perfectly balanced and fair and would have read the same regardless of who posted originally.

Move Support: Motion controls in racing game are not novel or a first.
3DTV: Not sure how this redefines the racing genre.
1080p 60 fps 16 cars: WipEout HD runs at 1080p 60fps.
1000 cars: Past GT games have had several hundred cars - I don't see the addition of a few hundred more as genre defining.
Modelled active aero: Meaning animated spoilers etc.? If so, this is not new.
Head Tracking: This is not new technology, nor has it been confirmed.
GPS feature: Right, only if you can afford to buy the GPS unit, put it inside your car, take it to a race track, and race the car on a track that is in the game... Otherwise, it's just a feature to race against ghosts.

I'm not trying to be awkward, I'm just saying that in isolation, none of the things listed are particularly genre defining. However, this does bring me back to my original point that the game is likely going to be special because it is a sum of these parts. If that makes it genre defining, so be it!
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He did say Console game.............
 
analog
Just being the first game to support new hardware isn't genre-defining in my opinion.
It's just being the first to have it implemented, genre-defining has more to do with software ( content to re-define the genre ) instead of just new technical possibilties ( no matter what they actually are or even whether they are significant ) as it would be just a matter of time for the other game titles to implement it as well ( not just by genre, but all genres will have this new hardware compatibility eventually ).
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No46_TheDoctor
He did say Console game.............
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Hes just too quick to come in for arguments sake and not give people a chance...


Some points...

Analog your right it doesnt mean that the hardware will redfine anything.
It has to be a consumer success and when such things are then other games copy or apapt it. Mario as a 3D platformer with analogue control was genre defining but it necessarily wasnt the first game to do such. However it was the one that was an instant hit and the industry copied. The hardware/software and gameplay all have work successfully together to redefine the gaming experience.

GT5 has listed a lot of things that make it unique and combined together they make one heck of a list of features for a video game. What other game is as technically supported? Ive never seen a console game feature such support or innovation to try and set a new benchmark.

Also for comments made about resolution/cars.
Im fully aware of what games offered 16 cars and 1080p hence why I stated "pretty much all firsts". If however its such an important thing to try and argue over then dont forget GT5 Prologue was released almost a year before Wipeout HD.

Regards 3D if its not implemented well then it wont offer much benifit.
If it is then it should create a more immersive effect from several things including the long draw distance the game has. It should heighten the sense of the player being able to feel they are more within a 3D enviroment and feeling better the position of their car on the track. Of course also creating a more realistic depth of field within the cockpit than just having flat objects on screen.

3D for me in a racing game is more about adding to the realisim/immersion not having typical 3D pop out effects that can become tiring. Quite the opposite to suck the player into the game is what hopefully it will achieve with proper playtesting. Maybe thats the problem with 3D comments on the game so far as unlike Wipeout/Motorstorm they are going to have more WOW/AGHH with the heights/jumps and fast paced arcade nature of those games. Likewise guys on AVF in the UK that have purchased Samsungs 3DTVs are already commenting on SuperStardust 3D being an awesome 3D POP OUT experience that totally changes the fun of the game compared to 2D.

We dont know how Move if supported is going to be used so we cant be sure yet if its a new defining tool for virtual garage/photomode or in the game. Like 3D its got potential but might not attract attention of everyone.

The GPS feature has the ability to take real world car times and have them to be used as ghosts for players to race. I think thats a cool feature for real world tracks and particulary how it could of been used with Top Gear track alone. Still it may come to nothing worthwhile in the game for most players.

Headtracking has not been used in a GT game before or any of its console competitors. As corrected by others indeed I was referring to consoles. Now who says its not been confirmed, as it was on the list of specs pulled from the Japanese website around GDC and has also been discussed by Sony representatives even featuring on the front page of GTP. I dont recall a statement saying it was dropped however. It may only offer the headtracking via Move, as we dont know if its just being implemented with LED detection or Face detection.
 
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It could be that GT5 will be the first game to succesfully integrate all these new gadgets/hardware and it could be they significantly add to the gameplay.
But to redefine a genre it takes more than that in my opinion, sure 3D could be great if you're planning to purchase a 3D TV, headtracking could be great if you're willing to purchase PS-Eye or Move, etc., etc.

My point is that to be truly redefining a genre, it would have to be a new standard even without all these optional extras.
Right now Prologue is offering a different experience depending on hardware, whether you use a controller or wheel, SD TV or HD TV makes quite a difference ( I use a controller and HD ).
Although it should also be possible to objectively judge the content of these games without the willingness or ability to purchase or upgrade your hardware.

In short, it should be a new definition ( as stated ) even if you're only able to play it on a SD TV without having to rely on new gadgets to fully experience the core of the game.
Sure, having all these gadgets will probably enhance the experience, but it should in my opinion be the game itself that stands out compared to other games, regardless of new hardware/gadgets/technology.
Content as opposed to apparatus.
 
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No46_TheDoctor
He did say Console game.............
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With the exception of head tracking (which has not been confirmed) and this GPS ghost stuff, it has all been seen or done before in some form of racing game on a console.

Analog basically said it in the way I feel - it may well include a few notable things such as "the highest car count", "1080p 60fps", "3D support" etc. in one polished package, but when it comes down to the core gameplay experience, I do not see how any of that is genre defining relative to other great racing games that are out there.
 
TokyoDrift
Sorry, but SONY have already convinced you. The fact that you are on here most days, and admitted yourself right there that you will be getting the game, is proof enough you don't need any more convincing.
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This is pretty much true. But let's pretend that E3 doesn't provide much news. Let's say it only confirmed 1,000 cars, 20 tracks, 70 variations and a release date for July 23rd.

I'm not the type to simply roll over and give in to something/someone. I'd need to see more reasons, because at this point, we still know too little. It's about time Sony reveals some BIG news. Not petty scraps of information. Again, they might have my money at the current time, but I'm not the only person buying the game. They still need to convince people.
 
In reality I only have to wait till Friday the 11th :)

World cup starting, saturday+sunday = le mans, thats 24 hours, making me sleep most of the 14th, and voila... E3 is here.
 
Heath_1
Being able to customize every part of the car and actually showing stuff like Intercoolers and aftermarket exhaust systems on the car will certainly be a first for Gran Turismo. But I have to be honest, when I first found out you could put rear wings on your car in GT4 I instantly thought "There's going to be more than this such as body kits for GT5". And I bet PD will do a far better job of body customization than Electronic Arts done with NFS. But that's all just guessing mostly. This will probably be one of (if not the) best car racing game you'll see until GT6.
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That my friend is just what I would like to hear in E3 :drool:
 
Redefining gaming comes in two forms, what the software does and what the hardware does.

Taking gameplay:
16 cars instead of 8 enchances gameplay
Weather / Night Day races enchances gameplay
Car modifiying / customisation enchances gameplay
Online mdes enchances gameplay


Taking hardware: (Below Not Possible on GT4 PS2)
Broadband enchances online gaming features
HD 1080p visuals enchances graphics
7.1 PCM enchances audio
3D enchances immersion
Headtracking enchances interaction and simulation
Steering wheel with clutch and H shifter enchances interaction and simulation

Headtracking was listed on the official GT Website thats good enough confirmation for me so dont argue over it as all the other features listed on that update are also assumed confirmed and expected in the game.

Feature List

Sept 9th 2009

The point being made is GT5 looks to be very much a genre defining possible title...
If they put this effort into the hardware then we should assume the game goes a bit further in gameplay/simulation/racing modes as well.
 
real_tron
Perhaps some kind of huge online system with races, cups, championships, track holiday events, and Spectator-mode, live streams, rewards for ranks, and tonnes of community features like online auctions, paint-shops, track days, car/driving clubs.

Imo the above sounds like very very wishful thinking
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No, I think most or all - and more - of this is what we'll be getting in an online system. There may even be a Season Mode Online of sorts. Wouldn't that be exciting! And undoubtedly, there will be rewards for participating in online racing.

However, as cool and possibly genre defining as it will be, I'm still going to be spending most of my time racing offline, taking down manufacturer cup races and collecting cars. And if there's a track creator, as well as a livery editor and race mod system, you'll know where I'll be spending a lot of my time.

Gran Turismo is already genre defining to me. You know, I can race a game with a handful of race cars and great physics, or a game with a handful each of race cars, tuners and supercars and nice physics, or a game which is an encyclopedia of cars and great physics. So when it comes out, and I want to race, there won't be any question what game I'll be playing. ;)
 
Mr Latte
Redefining gaming comes in two forms, what the software does and what the hardware does.

Taking gameplay:
16 cars instead of 8 enchances gameplay
Weather / Night Day races enchances gameplay
Car modifiying / customisation enchances gameplay
Online mdes enchances gameplay


Taking hardware: (Below Not Possible on GT4 PS2)
Broadband enchances online gaming features
HD 1080p visuals enchances graphics
7.1 PCM enchances audio
3D enchances immersion
Headtracking enchances interaction and simulation
Steering wheel with clutch and H shifter enchances interaction and simulation
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Yes the software will be compatible with multiple hardware ( some ofcourse better than others ) and new technological abilty will create new gameplay possibilties ( a no brainer, frankly ) but this can be applied to any new game.
But for the game to be redefining its genre it should be doing that regardless of the chosen hardware ( as the PS3 still makes most of the above possible ).

It's about content available to all users, not just those who happen to own a 3D TV.
For example track-editor, if included, would really redefine the racing genre compared to other existing racing-games.
This feature would be enjoyable/usable to all who buy GT5 regardless of their hardware.
If it's compatible with PS-Move and using that device would make this feature even more enjoyable or able to create more fluent movements when using it then so be it, but this feature should still be able to provide fun to those who only going to use a DS3.

My point is and remains that if Kaz claims GT5 to be as groundbreaking as the first GT was it should be through the content of the game first and foremost.
There should be a level playing field for the experience GT5 will offer to anyone with any hardware available to them.
To those able or willing to purchase additional equipment for immersion/gameplay reasons the advantage will be obvious to everyone.

It's like music, if a certain album is groundbreaking in its genre it's obvious even when played on a crappy sound system, it will ofcourse be better when played on a better piece of equipment ( but not more groundbreaking ).
 
Mr Latte
Redefining gaming comes in two forms, what the software does and what the hardware does.

Taking gameplay:
16 cars instead of 8 enchances gameplay
Weather / Night Day races enchances gameplay
Car modifiying / customisation enchances gameplay
Online mdes enchances gameplay


Taking hardware: (Below Not Possible on GT4 PS2)
Broadband enchances online gaming features
HD 1080p visuals enchances graphics
7.1 PCM enchances audio
3D enchances immersion
Headtracking enchances interaction and simulation
Steering wheel with clutch and H shifter enchances interaction and simulation

Headtracking was listed on the official GT Website thats good enough confirmation for me so dont argue over it as all the other features listed on that update are also assumed confirmed and expected in the game.

Feature List

Sept 9th 2009

The point being made is GT5 looks to be very much a genre defining possible title...
If they put this effort into the hardware then we should assume the game goes a bit further in gameplay/simulation/racing modes as well.
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I agree with you and have no idea what TD is talking about.

I would like to ask TD what hes on about when he says "I do not see how any of that is genre defining relative to other great racing games that are out there" May I ask what other great racing games?

Ever since i've owned the PS3&360 what has struck me is the lack of decent racing games. The only decent racing games i've played are PGR3, FM2, GT5P which are all getting very old. If the features you post are in GT5 then it will be genre defining because no racing games on the current consoles can boast such a list.
 
Well there are racers already out that have more than 16 vehicles. Day/night and weather. Online too and customisable options for vehicles, so their not genre defining in my book.
 
Spagetti69
Well there are racers already out that have more than 16 vehicles. Day/night and weather. Online too and customisable options for vehicles, so their not genre defining in my book.
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Well give me a title bro i will go buy it right now 👍
 
Delphic Reason
GTR2 for starters...



;)
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Thats only for CPU right? If so m out of luck i thought we were talking about Xbox or PS3 those computer games Don"t really attract me because i know nothing about computers. I was reading how the better your computer the better those games will run, i cant afford a super computer right now.
 
II IVORBIGUN II
I agree with you and have no idea what TD is talking about.

I would like to ask TD what hes on about when he says "I do not see how any of that is genre defining relative to other great racing games that are out there" May I ask what other great racing games?
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So, there are no great racing games on any console at the moment, period? I'll just have to leave you and Mr Latte to it and agree to disagree. I made my point, and so has analog to a better degree it has to be said. The majority of those benefits/enhancements being mentioned are just a result of the game being on a better console. I would expect it to run at a higher resolution, have more tracks, more cars, more cars on track at once, support 7.1 etc. To me, that's progression, not genre defining, even if some of that has never been done before in any given racer before. Other things like night/day and weather have been done before on consoles, and done well, so what's so novel about that to warrant redefining the genre? Just because GT5 might bring more of these things together in one game as well, to me, does not warrant redefining the genre either.

So as the next consoles come out and let you have higher resolutions, even more cars on track, even more audio channels, and even more intricate ways to play the game, would each one be considered genre defining? For me, something more fundamentally significant has to happen to the core of the game, and it has to be something that benefits everybody, regardless of their setup. If PD were suddenly able to give you the ability to completely model your car from the ground up, including interior, and set the physical parameters, that would be genre defining, at least on the consoles.

I say this generally; there is no need to get all upset if I say I disagree that something is or isn't. There are forums and I'm commenting on statements I see written on a screen - it's nothing personal. If you think GT5 is genre defining, fair enough, it's not like it changes anything anyway!
 
"genre defining" is something Kaz said once. Therefore hardly worth an extensive debate, which I think some people are clearly trying to spark for the sake of it :P

In any case I'm with TD - None of what we know so far is worthy of that kind of acclaim. If a long list of improvements and lets face it, gimmicks *COUGH-gps* shatters the way you think about racing games then so be it, but I just see them as interesting but fairly insignificant little features. Sure they will no doubt add up to a great driving game, maybe the best ever, but it's not revolutionary.
 
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TokyoDrift
So, there are no great racing games on any console at the moment, period? I'll just have to leave you and Mr Latte to it and agree to disagree. !
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In my opinion no their isn't. What we have seen with this generation is some fantastic FPS games i.e COD 4 but unfortunately racing games have been rather poor. I had great hopes for FM3, RacePro, NFS Shift but they all proved disappointing. This is why much of the Forza fanbase have left FM3 and already moved on. The other night only 400 people were playing in the FM3 hoppers! That is a shocking statistic!!

The best racing games have been FM2, GT5P but unfortunately the online options of GT5P were very basic limiting the lifespan of the game. I still don't understand why PD didn't provide an update for private rooms.

P.S if you disagree with my comments about FM3 let me say this. Yesterday I set top 20 laptimes on 20 different tracks within 2hrs of hotlapping. This would never of happened in FM2. Reason being is the LBS aren't competitive because many have left. I will also add that im only playing FM3 because im bored. When GT5 is released its goodbye to the Xbox and Xbox live.
 
real_tron
In any case I'm with TD - None of what we know so far is worthy of that kind of acclaim. If a long list of improvements and lets face it, gimmicks *COUGH-gps* shatters the way you think about racing games then so be it, but I just see them as interesting but fairly insignificant little features. Sure they will no doubt add up to a great driving game, maybe the best ever, but it's not revolutionary.
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Same here. To me, a lot of these things previously mentioned are insignificant. If having better graphics and more cars make a game revolutionary, then the meaning of the word "revolutionary" has been lost.

In my opinion, it was revolutionary to have many, many cars (GT1). Adding hundreds of cars with each subsequent release doesn't make the games more revolutionary, to me.
 
II IVORBIGUN II
In my opinion no their isn't. What we have seen with this generation is some fantastic FPS games i.e COD 4 but unfortunately racing games have been rather poor. I had great hopes for FM3, RacePro, NFS Shift but they all proved disappointing. This is why much of the Forza fanbase have left FM3 and already moved on. The other night only 400 people were playing in the FM3 hoppers! That is a shocking statistic!!

The best racing games have been FM2, GT5P but unfortunately the online options of GT5P were very basic limiting the lifespan of the game. I still don't understand why PD didn't provide an update for private rooms.

P.S if you disagree with my comments about FM3 let me say this. Yesterday I set top 20 laptimes on 20 different tracks within 2hrs of hotlapping. This would never of happened in FM2. Reason being is the LBS aren't competitive because many have left. I will also add that im only playing FM3 because im bored. When GT5 is released its goodbye to the Xbox and Xbox live.
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I think you mean to say there hasn't been any great racing sims. There have been several fantastic arcade-style racing games. :p
 
And that's what it comes down to I suppose, is it revolutionary or evolutionary, is it the new blueprint for every racing game to follow, showing new groundbreaking features/content which the first one did ( like Kaz stated, and yes I know not everything he says should be taken very seriously by now ).
Or is it something we already know, only further evolved due to the possibilities of the PS3, which is something we may reasonably come to expect to be frank.
Either will be a benchmark I suppose, although the difference is the lasting impact it has on the genre as a whole.
A further evolvement will possibly only be the benchmark during its lifespan, the impact the first GT made however still resonates. :)
 
TokyoDrift
With the exception of head tracking (which has not been confirmed) and this GPS ghost stuff, it has all been seen or done before in some form of racing game on a console.

Analog basically said it in the way I feel - it may well include a few notable things such as "the highest car count", "1080p 60fps", "3D support" etc. in one polished package, but when it comes down to the core gameplay experience, I do not see how any of that is genre defining relative to other great racing games that are out there.
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Until we see GT5's gameplay we can't say how genre defining it will or won't be, it will certainly be the only racing game I will still be playing years into the future, until GT6 arrives infact, but that doesn't mean it's genre defining, that just means it's the best of it's kind. We can argue about what constitutes genre defining till the cows come home, but why bother? Seriously, lets just wait until E3 and we hopefully know what we are getting, then start all the dumb argueing about this and that and what means this and this doesn't mean that to me.........................

It seems some people in here should either be lawyers or philosophers, I can't decide which..........
 
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No46_TheDoctor
Until we see GT5's gameplay we can't say how genre defining it will or won't be, it will certainly be the only racing game I will still be playing years into the future
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You accept we can't be certain of things... but you're certain of GT5's status as your go-to racer until GT6 arrives (which, by current trends, is probably around 2020)?

;)

I log back into the planet for the first time in months hoping that maybe there's some leaked info before E3. I see a thread with 84 pages... and it contains absolutely nothing about E3, just people having the same arguments that have been raging for the laughably long 5+ years since GT4's release... what's the point?
 
SlipZtrEm
I log back into the planet for the first time in months hoping that maybe there's some leaked info before E3. I see a thread with 84 pages... and it contains absolutely nothing about E3, just people having the same arguments that have been raging for the laughably long 5+ years since GT4's release... what's the point?
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Never understood why so many mock the lengthy development of GT5. I much prefer quality over quantity. Take Forza 3 for example this was a rushed project because in my opinion (not based on facts) MS & Turn 10 thought GT5 was going to be released in Dec 09 and wanted to get a jump start on Sony/PD.

The way I see it is if you release a game from a franchise on a yearly basis i.e Tiger woods, COD then you only get 1 yr of gameplay. However with GT5 im hoping to get between 3-5yrs of gameplay. You know PD could of probably released a HD version of GT4 very quickly and sold millions of copies but instead decided to start from scratch.
 
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