Gran Turismo 5 Offers Hard Drive Install, Big Space Required!!!

[Robin]

This is a tweet by mr Kaz himself:

インストールを強くお勧めします。マストと言ってもいいでしょう。

From the translated version I got.

"We strongly recommend the installation, I would say that much."

Yeah, eitherwise ALL the cars will be Standard in disk mode

 

[emotionap1]

So I wonder if it's not the fact that they couldn't put cockpit's in standards but more of a problem of getting it all to fit on the disk?

 

[Seismica]

However, Kaz has said they have nearly filled up the blu-ray disc, and the discs can hold about 25gb for single layer right? (assuming this is a single layer disc) so we would have to install 25gb's of data to our HDD's of course, for people who can spare that amount of space, then it is no problem, but for the older PS3's with smaller HDD's then this could be an issue, but it would be awesome as an option!

It's a part install. To maximise the loading speeds you need to load from the disc and the HDD simultaneously.

A full install is an amateurish solution because usually they do this with the intention of loading everything from the HDD. Most PC games do this for the purpose of not having to insert the disc to play, but on a console, where you need the disc to play, it makes no sense to do a full install when the console is capable of loading both at once. It's far easier to do a full install, using just the disc to verify that it is a signed/licensed copy of the game, but then loading speeds are not maximised.

It sounds to me like the install is optional, because of it's size, not everyone will have the space. It also sounds like it will only be a part install, which is good because it means the console will likely load data from both the HDD and the disc, therefore reducing loading times significantly.

 

[Mr Frappy]

It's a part install. To maximise the loading speeds you need to load from the disc and the HDD simultaneously.

A full install is an amateurish solution because usually they do this with the intention of loading everything from the HDD. Most PC games do this for the purpose of not having to insert the disc to play, but on a console, where you need the disc to play, it makes no sense to do a full install when the console is capable of loading both at once. It's far easier to do a full install, using just the disc to verify that it is a signed/licensed copy of the game, but then loading speeds are not maximised.

It sounds to me like the install is optional, because of it's size, not everyone will have the space. It also sounds like it will only be a part install, which is good because it means the console will likely load data from both the HDD and the disc, therefore reducing loading times significantly.

I think this is being a bit pedantic to be honest. Even if there is a performance gain from having some on the HDD and some on Blu-ray, it's not going to be "significantly faster". Yes, a console needs the disc to validate the copy is genuine, but why would I not do a full install if I had the option and space to do so? It would still be faster compared to being read off the disc alone, and on top of that, it reduces wear on the laser and results in quieter machine operation.

I totally get what you are saying, and I believe it will be a partial install, not to load from both at once necessarily like you say, but to load the most commonly used game elements and assets (like menus and the interface) to the HDD for quicker access, leaving the rest on Blu-ray to be accessed when required.

 

[infamousDee]

So I wonder if it's not the fact that they couldn't put cockpit's in standards but more of a problem of getting it all to fit on the disk?

Standard cars are nothing but models ported from Gran Turismo 4. If they were going to incorporate interiors, they would have done when the game was released six years ago. Space is an entirely unrelated issue.

 

[zod]

Standard cars are nothing but models ported from Gran Turismo 4. If they were going to incorporate interiors, they would have done when the game was released six years ago. Space is an entirely unrelated issue.

Fixed.

 

[Tornado]

Yes, a console needs the disc to validate the copy is genuine, but why would I not do a full install if I had the option and space to do so?

Because a properly optimized partial install would be no slower and would take up (based on what we know so far) 1/5th as much space.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Fixed.

This again?

Take it to the thread dedicated to the issue, so you can at least be wrong there, where it's relevant.

 

[Sureboss]

Also a rather obvious piracy flaw in allowing full install from disc to console HDD, obviously there are methods around that, but that increases costs, etc.

I think anyone who can do the partial install, should do. It'll increase loading times and reduce damage to parts (HDD have a better reliability rate than optical drives). I'd be intrigued to know what bits they'll install to the HDD, my first presumption will be everything audio.

 

[Mr Frappy]

Because a properly optimized partial install would be no slower and would take up (based on what we know so far) 1/5th as much space.

OK, that was intended as a bit of a rhetorical question, but let me put it more clearly in a hypothetical situation:

I have almost 200GB free on my HDD (fact). The options are:

1. Run from Blu-ray
2. Partial install
3. Full install, just needing the disc for verification

Given that option three is going to run faster than option one, give me a quieter machine, and result in less wear on the laser, I'll ask that rhetorical question again: Why would I not do a full install if I had the option and space to do so? This, knowing that I do not have any drive space constraints. As understanding as I am of them, other peoples situations are, in the context of this question, irrelevant.

@Sureboss, the Xbox 360 allows the install of ALL games to the HDD, and the simple answer to piracy on an unmodded 360 is to have the disc left in the drive.

 

[Tornado]

I completely understood what you said. My statement still stands. If PD properly optimized the partial game install in relation to the data on the game disc, the only thing completely copying the game instead of partially copying it would do is waste hard drive space.

 

[Sureboss]

OK, that was intended as a bit of a rhetorical question, but let me put it more clearly in a hypothetical situation:

I have almost 200GB free on my HDD (fact). The options are:

1. Run from Blu-ray
2. Partial install
3. Full install, just needing the disc for verification

Given that option three is going to run faster than option one, give me a quieter machine, and result in less wear on the laser, I'll ask that rhetorical question again: Why would I not do a full install if I had the option and space to do so? This, knowing that I do not have any drive space constraints. As understanding as I am of them, other peoples situations are, in the context of this question, irrelevant.

@Sureboss, the Xbox 360 allows the install of ALL games to the HDD, and the simple answer to piracy on an unmodded 360 is to have the disc left in the drive.

Which negates the main selling point of installing to HDD (Yes, yes, reduced wear, incresed speeds, etc, but that won't be the main selling point to your typical gamer.). Not to mention one massive word in there which I've bolded.

 

[Mr Frappy]

I completely understood what you said. My statement still stands. If PD properly optimized the partial game install in relation to the data on the game disc, the only thing completely copying the game instead of partially copying it would do is waste hard drive space.

Your statement might stand in relation to you proving a point to yourself, but it bears no relation to my question/situation where the use of drive space is a complete non-issue.

Which negates the main selling point of installing to HDD (Yes, yes, reduced wear, incresed speeds, etc, but that won't be the main selling point to your typical gamer.). Not to mention one massive word in there which I've bolded.

What, you think that leaving the disc in negates the main selling point of installing to HDD? I think you guys are arguing just for the sake of it!

On PS3 and Xbox 360, for disc-based games you need to have the disc in the drive, period. Forget modded consoles, those are not catered for in the minds of developers. So, apart from using up drive space as Tornado says, why would you not install if it meant the game loaded faster etc.?

Sorry if I have misunderstood, but I know several people with a 360, and the first thing they all do, if they have the space and like the game enough, is install it to the HDD. Why? Not because they think it saves them a trip off the sofa because it doesn't necessarily. However, they all appreciate the faster loading and quieter machine.

 

[Sureboss]

if they have the space and like the game enough

That's one reason why it's unlikely to be an option from developers as it won't cater for most people. Space is something that always has to be considered with devs, you don't faff about with it if it has a chance of alienating some customers and changing their purchasing decision.

What, you think that leaving the disc in negates the main selling point of installing to HDD? I think you guys are arguing just for the sake of it!

Not having to use a disc is THE main selling point for installing to HDD. My experience (which is of hundreds of thousands of our customers) is that people will use the CD option even if there is an option for digital download, because they like having the CD. Okay, it's slightly different in a console context and in this example, but the majority of people will say "I've installed it to the HDD, but I still have to put the disc in, why?" Regardless of the very good reasons, they don't want the hassle even if it benefits them. Of course you could do on-line verification, but then they'll moan about that. Gamers are finickity.

What it boils down to is a simple experience. Majority of gamers are PnP, Arcade, Lounge multi-player, etc. There are very good reasons to want to install it direct to HDD (I do it with anything I can), but it's the negative factors which will have the largest influence.

That all said, I'd happily do a full install of GT5 to my HDD.

 

[Tornado]

Your statement might stand in relation to you proving a point to yourself, but it bears no relation to my question/situation where the use of drive space is a complete non-issue.

No, because the fact of the matter is that all a complete install would do over a properly set up partial install is waste hard drive space. You just don't care whether you are wasting hard drive space or not, but that is still all that would happen if you completely copied the game.

 

[Mr Frappy]

Not having to use a disc is THE main selling point for installing to HDD.

Well not quite, but you have a fair point. To be honest, I know a lot of people with games consoles, and they almost all fully understand the differences between a game on a console and a game on a PC. Maybe it's just because of my background and the friends I have, but still...

No, because the fact of the matter is that all a complete install would do over a properly set up partial install is waste hard drive space. You just don't care whether you are wasting hard drive space or not, but that is still all that would happen if you completely copied the game.

You just made the fundamental error of assuming that I think I am wasting hard drive space when I install something. In such a case, you couldn't be more wrong.

 

[opelgt1969]

That's one reason why it's unlikely to be an option from developers as it won't cater for most people. Space is something that always has to be considered with devs, you don't faff about with it if it has a chance of alienating some customers and changing their purchasing decision.



Not having to use a disc is THE main selling point for installing to HDD. My experience (which is of hundreds of thousands of our customers) is that people will use the CD option even if there is an option for digital download, because they like having the CD. Okay, it's slightly different in a console context and in this example, but the majority of people will say "I've installed it to the HDD, but I still have to put the disc in, why?" Regardless of the very good reasons, they don't want the hassle even if it benefits them. Of course you could do on-line verification, but then they'll moan about that. Gamers are finickity.

What it boils down to is a simple experience. Majority of gamers are PnP, Arcade, Lounge multi-player, etc. There are very good reasons to want to install it direct to HDD (I do it with anything I can), but it's the negative factors which will have the largest influence.

That all said, I'd happily do a full install of GT5 to my HDD.

So in 2 years your going to eat these words when GT5 will be available for download on Playstation Store

 

[Sureboss]

Well not quite, but you have a fair point. To be honest, I know a lot of people with games consoles, and they almost all fully understand the differences between a game on a console and a game on a PC. Maybe it's just because of my background and the friends I have, but still...

I suggest that is the case. The thing is, the difference between the casual gamer and the more hardcore gamer (ie, majority of people on boards like GTP) is huge with regards to things like this. I enjoy, like you do, getting the most out of it, even if it means spending more time, but we are the minority. I was quite surprised when I saw our first sales breakdown between digital download and CD and the ratio was a complete reversal to what I expected. Keep it simple and you'll be able to satisfy everybdoy, start adding complications in and you will start to lose customers. That's true of not only when they buy, but if they need something fixing. We changed our DRM for our last dev cycle and some firewalls/anti-viruses block net access or DEP problems, not too complex changes, bit of faffing with some firewalls, but not too bad. Yet, that removes the PnP element, so even if it is a 5 minute fix, I'd say near half just want the refund. Which defies logic imo, but such is the vast difference between the different types of gamers out there.

 

[Seismica]

OK, that was intended as a bit of a rhetorical question, but let me put it more clearly in a hypothetical situation:

I have almost 200GB free on my HDD (fact). The options are:

1. Run from Blu-ray
2. Partial install
3. Full install, just needing the disc for verification

Given that option three is going to run faster than option one, give me a quieter machine, and result in less wear on the laser, I'll ask that rhetorical question again: Why would I not do a full install if I had the option and space to do so? This, knowing that I do not have any drive space constraints. As understanding as I am of them, other peoples situations are, in the context of this question, irrelevant.

@Sureboss, the Xbox 360 allows the install of ALL games to the HDD, and the simple answer to piracy on an unmodded 360 is to have the disc left in the drive.

Your hard-drive wears out too...? And to be honest, lasers don't wear out that easily. I've played maybe 1500-2000 hours on my 1st gen ps2 and it's only required a periodic clean to keep it working. But hard drives... HDDs are the no. 1 problem when it comes to wear and tear with PCs/Laptops/Computers of any kind.

The fact is, a partial install loading from the HDD and the Disc is faster than a full install loading solely from the HDD.

So because you have a big HDD, you want to be able to install it fully... So that you can save your laser? But you're putting more stress on the HDD, and reducing the loading speeds in the game? I say to PD, why not. If they want their game to load slower, thats fine by me

 

[Tornado]

You just made the fundamental error of assuming that I think I am wasting hard drive space when I install something. In such a case, you couldn't be more wrong.

I'm pretty sure I already mentioned that you don't care. So, yeah.

 

[Robin]

The lasers on the first gen fat PS3 are terrible (single lens), its a fact and Sony has even said to me that they were very overcomplicated in design and made at a time where BR diode production was tight and quality suffered. The guy at Sony centre just told me to buy a slim, which I wont.

This is why I want full game install, I have never had a Hard Drive fail and atleast its cheaper and easier to replace than the laser. All you need is the disk in the drive for inital verification and your done!

Robin.

 

[Mr Frappy]

I suggest that is the case. The thing is, the difference between the casual gamer and the more hardcore gamer (ie, majority of people on boards like GTP) is huge with regards to things like this. I enjoy, like you do, getting the most out of it, even if it means spending more time, but we are the minority. I was quite surprised when I saw our first sales breakdown between digital download and CD and the ratio was a complete reversal to what I expected. Keep it simple and you'll be able to satisfy everybdoy, start adding complications in and you will start to lose customers. That's true of not only when they buy, but if they need something fixing. We changed our DRM for our last dev cycle and some firewalls/anti-viruses block net access or DEP problems, not too complex changes, bit of faffing with some firewalls, but not too bad. Yet, that removes the PnP element, so even if it is a 5 minute fix, I'd say near half just want the refund. Which defies logic imo, but such is the vast difference between the different types of gamers out there.

I totally get what you are saying, but to be fair I think that certainly with the Xbox 360 where games never had any mandatory installs, it's a lot easier for people to see the benefits of a full HDD install despite having to leave the disc in. For a lot of people that equates to a far quieter machine!

With PS3 it's a slightly more confusing situation because it has always had games that install to some degree or another, so the benefits of a full install are less apparent.

Your hard-drive wears out too...? And to be honest, lasers don't wear out that easily. I've played maybe 1500-2000 hours on my 1st gen ps2 and it's only required a periodic clean to keep it working. But hard drives... HDDs are the no. 1 problem when it comes to wear and tear with PCs/Laptops/Computers of any kind.

The fact is, a partial install loading from the HDD and the Disc is faster than a full install loading solely from the HDD.

So because you have a big HDD, you want to be able to install it fully... So that you can save your laser? But you're putting more stress on the HDD, and reducing the loading speeds in the game? I say to PD, why not. If they want their game to load slower, thats fine by me

The laser on my 1st gen PS2 wore out after a year and needed replacing. On the other hand, the hard drive in my desktop lasted over 5 years without any problems whatsoever, and was used for several hours each day, getting switched on and off. So, stats are all well and good, but if they do not reflect my experience they are as good as meaningless in context.

Besides, it doesn't matter what the advantages of one or the other are - we are only talking about a few seconds here and there spread across a gaming session. It's not something I really concern myself too much over, so yes, if the option were there to do a full install I would do. To save the laser? Not really as I play very few games anyway and do not use it as a Blu-ray player. However, it would result in quieter operation, and it would load a bit faster than straight off Blu-ray. Two wins I'm happy to take from an otherwise moot subject.

 

[II IVORBIGUN II]

This is why I want full game install, I have never had a Hard Drive fail and atleast its cheaper and easier to replace than the laser. All you need is the disk in the drive for inital verification and your done!

Robin.

Absolutely spot on and I really cannot understand why some are saying a partial install is the same as a full install. As I kept my original PS3 HDD if my current HDD failed I could swap this HDD and have my PS3 up and running within 5 mins, this certainly isn't the case if my laser failed!

I always install my Xbox 360 games onto the HDD and if GT5 allows a full install then I will do it. The fact is a full install will not only mean faster load times but less stress on my PS3 compared to a partial install. Anyone who says any different has no idea what their on about!

So because you have a big HDD, you want to be able to install it fully... So that you can save your laser? But you're putting more stress on the HDD, and reducing the loading speeds in the game? I say to PD, why not. If they want their game to load slower, thats fine by me

Sorry but that is utter tripe. In all my years of owning PCs & gaming consoles i've never had a HDD fail on me but i've certainly had many lasers that have failed on me. As for faster loading times and I have to say what on earth are you on about. The whole point of installing 360 games on the HDD is to improve loading times. Now considering DVD is faster than Blu ray drives im really puzzled at your statement.

 

[Mr Frappy]

Sorry but that is utter tripe. In all my years of owning PCs & gaming consoles i've never had a HDD fail on me but i've certainly had many lasers that have failed on me. As for faster loading times and I have to say what on earth are you on about. The whole point of installing 360 games on the HDD is to improve loading times. Now considering DVD is faster than Blu ray drives im really puzzled at your statement.

Haha, thanks for saying what I really wanted to! The thing is, some people will argue the toss over anything. I made it perfectly clear why I would do a full install to HDD, but just so they can have their say, people start introducing whole other elements and stats to the debate, often incorrectly or of no relevance to the point being discussed. Crazy.

Anyway, same here, I've never had a hard drive fail on me, but my PS2 laser died and I've had to replace CD/DVD drives in my old desktop PC quite often, but at least that is cheap and easy to do.

 

[Accelerate]

If GT5 had a full install option I would do it before even starting it up, and I have an untouched PS3 slim which I bought just for GT5 so all 250GB are for it. My 360 on the other hand has only 50GB left of its 250GB because I install all of my games to it. It makes a noticeable difference in loading times and usually wipes out fade in that you may get when playing off the disc.

 

[Taiga]

So let me get it clear for myself,
Is the 10GB worth for the albeit, smoother game and faster loading times?

 

[infamousDee]

Fixed.

I'm intrigued now. Why don't you agree with that post? (How do you even cross stuff out like that, by the way?)

I'll quote the post for the sake of convenience.

Standard cars are nothing but models ported from Gran Turismo 4. If they were going to incorporate interiors, they would have done when the game was released six years ago. Space is an entirely unrelated issue.

 

[Jason_Hall]

The install I guess will include all the menus, tracks, and all the manufactures. The cars I am guessing will load off the disc.

 

[Mr Frappy]

So let me get it clear for myself,
Is the 10GB worth for the albeit, smoother game and faster loading times?

Installing to the HDD will result in faster load times, quieter machine operation, and reduced wear on the laser. The extent of these can be debated, and how much value you place on those is up to you.

This bit is not targeted at you, but personally I think it's a no-brainer if you have the space, and find it rather petty to argue against it. It's just drive space, simple as that. You either have it or you don't, and make your decision accordingly.

 

[zork123]

this just tells me the game is going to be awesome. but it will test my patience when installing it tho!!