Gran Turismo 6 Save Data Exposed... Open To Hackers / Modders?

[TorqueWrench]

Dirty V8 in a JDM car?

Typical 'murican ideology...

Oh and sorry to burst your bubble, but you can't engine swap in GT6, PD tied the engine code to the body code, in other words they can't be seperated. Only engine "sound" is swappable, but it will still act and feel like the original engine, because well, it is.

Not exactly. It can be done with CFW only and should be a useable option in the next GT6HE update, also a way may have been found to break the connection with the body, that's still in testing.

There is not going to be the same capabilities modding a save game compared to CFW live game modding. Keep in mind just because CFW can do something doesn't mean it can be done editing a save game.


Side Note

I'll say it again. LS powered RX-7's are Boss. Great engine in great platform, its a sweet union of Japanese cornering meets American Muscle. Like when British Sports Car was introduced to American Muscle and the Shelby or also know as AC Cobra was born

 

[kolio]

Worst thing that could happen to GT6. WIll delay new content as PD will be too busy stopping hackers.

Thanks to all the hackers that screw stuff up ehh?

 

[kolio]

Regarding money and free cars.. Come on , half this community used the Mercedes VGT car glitch to earn money..When it is a "glitch" it is acceptable , but when it is "hacking" it is bad ?

Glitches are fine, hacking is annoying.

It is not our fault that they allowed us to find a hole in the system. However, they cannot control whether something gets hacked or not. Do you think when that when government websites get hacked it was their fault because it was really a glitch. That was a stupid example... Sorry.

SHORT STORY: Yes, hacking is bad. Glitching is fine.

 

[Griffith500]

I sure hope he has enough to cover your lack of it.........

If Amar is around, I'd like to ask a quick question about one of your posts over at neogaf:



What exactly is 2-layer security? Just curious

As far as I understand it, all the savegames on PS3 (and all of the files on the PS3 outright, actually) are encrypted using Sony's keys etc. That was cracked eons ago, thanks to Sony's carelessness; in fact, it's not like hackers broke into the house, more like Sony left the key under a plant-pot nearby.

It was reported shortly after release that the data in the savegames held under Sony's encryption was further encrypted by PD's own method. This was also broken fairly quickly, but it was not shared and so was not taken advantage of. Until someone else appears to have independently broken it.

Additionally, PD added / changed the encryption of update files in one of the updates, the one that introduced the longer / 2-stage update installs (possibly only a coincidence, I don't know details). This has also been broken, but I doubt it's been shared either.

PD has supposedly also always encrypted all the data the game is using in memory; decrypting it on the fly. Given we have public tools for direct memory manipulation, it's safe to say this encryption has also been compromised.

That's 4 distinct encryption systems in the game. And I really don't know the half of it, so take all of that with a grain of salt.

Well, to be fair, the "Ferrari" engine in that 500 is from the Lancia Thema. The engine is technically Ferrari, but it never powered one since it was designed exclusively for the Thema. As you might hear, it sounds like a regular V8 since it has a cross-plane crank instead of what you would expect in a true Ferrari V8. And...

Oh, who cares!!! Someone actually put a freaking Lambo V12 in a 500 for crying out loud!!!!!

I'm pretty sure it's a 308 engine. Same block etc., so the Thema intake and cam covers fit - they were used because it results in a lower profile engine.

The exhaust sound is easily explained if you look at photographs of the exhaust itself; the engine is effectively split in half down the middle to make two V4s, one branch of the exhaust services one V4, the other the other. Each virtual V4 happens to have the same firing intervals as one bank of a cross-plane V8.

E.g. flat-plane V8 is 1-8-3-6-4-5-2-7, a typical cross-plane V8 is 1-3-6-2-7-8-4-5. The colours refer to the two exhaust branch groupings; notice the timings are the same, if rotated slightly.

These are the kinds of cool things you get to find out when synthesising engine sounds!

 

[EF12345678]

Glitches are fine, hacking is annoying.

It is not our fault that they allowed us to find a hole in the system. However, they cannot control whether something gets hacked or not. Do you think when that when government websites get hacked it was their fault because it was really a glitch. That was a stupid example... Sorry.

SHORT STORY: Yes, hacking is bad. Glitching is fine.

Your argument is vague and invalid.
The government is a whole different story. You bought the game, it's yours! (I know people are gonna argue that "You bought the license to play, not the game." I find that rather annoying) You're not hacking into some vital organization stealing their money, you're hacking to have fun, and as I said in my last post, "If you don't have fun, why would you play it?". Furthermore, you didn't elaborate on why glitches are "fine".

 

[HuskyGT]

As far as I understand it, all the savegames on PS3 (and all of the files on the PS3 outright, actually) are encrypted using Sony's keys etc. That was cracked eons ago, thanks to Sony's carelessness; in fact, it's not like hackers broke into the house, more like Sony left the key under a plant-pot nearby.

It was reported shortly after release that the data in the savegames held under Sony's encryption was further encrypted by PD's own method. This was also broken fairly quickly, but it was not shared and so was not taken advantage of. Until someone else appears to have independently broken it.

Additionally, PD added / changed the encryption of update files in one of the updates, the one that introduced the longer / 2-stage update installs (possibly only a coincidence, I don't know details). This has also been broken, but I doubt it's been shared either.

PD has supposedly also always encrypted all the data the game is using in memory; decrypting it on the fly. Given we have public tools for direct memory manipulation, it's safe to say this encryption has also been compromised.

That's 4 distinct encryption systems in the game. And I really don't know the half of it, so take all of that with a grain of salt.


I'm pretty sure it's a 308 engine. Same block etc., so the Thema intake and cam covers fit - they were used because it results in a lower profile engine.

The exhaust sound is easily explained if you look at photographs of the exhaust itself; the engine is effectively split in half down the middle to make two V4s, one branch of the exhaust services one V4, the other the other. Each virtual V4 happens to have the same firing intervals as one bank of a cross-plane V8.

E.g. flat-plane V8 is 1-8-3-6-4-5-2-7, a typical cross-plane V8 is 1-3-6-2-7-8-4-5. The colours refer to the two exhaust branch groupings; notice the timings are the same, if rotated slightly.

These are the kinds of cool things you get to find out when synthesising engine sounds!

Your explanation is pretty awesome, I must say. Car sounds, and the reason why they sound like they do has always fascinated me. That would explain why some tuned Lotus Esprit sound like regular V8's, instead of the regular 4 cylinder-ish sound that they have. And yeah, I just did some research and the engine does power the 308.

 

[Griffith500]

Your explanation is pretty awesome, I must say. Car sounds, and the reason why they sound like they do has always fascinated me. That would explain why some tuned Lotus Esprit sound like regular V8's, instead of the regular 4 cylinder-ish sound that they have. And yeah, I just did some research and the engine does power the 308.

Well, I'm not sure if it's a coincidence, now. There are a couple of sources stating it's an engine out of a Thema (the gearbox / drivetrain certainly is, as it's smaller). They all cite an F105 engine code, which isn't specific enough because it's the same as all the 308 engines; the Thema is F105L.

The Esprit is slightly different, but the same as the McLaren V8 in the 12C / P1 etc., in that the groupings are the normal 4-from-each-bank affair. The specific unequal-ness of the manifolds and the way they're merged into one outlet means the effect is the same: each virtual V-twin is effectively partially isolated in the sound, but they mix together to give that rich V8 roar.

And yes, this "mathematical" approach to the sounds opens up a world of customisation I always assumed was in the realm of trial and error, or the master's art etc. With a few simple tools, we could all be doing this in games.

 

[Giygas]

Maybe in time I can finally make a true Camaro Z/28 replica by using the Z06 C6 engine 👍

 

[HuskyGT]

Well, I'm not sure if it's a coincidence, now. There are a couple of sources stating it's an engine out of a Thema (the gearbox / drivetrain certainly is, as it's smaller). They all cite an F105 engine code, which isn't specific enough because it's the same as all the 308 engines; the Thema is F105L.

The Esprit is slightly different, but the same as the McLaren V8 in the 12C / P1 etc., in that the groupings are the normal 4-from-each-bank affair. The specific unequal-ness of the manifolds and the way they're merged into one outlet means the effect is the same: each virtual V-twin is effectively partially isolated in the sound, but they mix together to give that rich V8 roar.

And yes, this "mathematical" approach to the sounds opens up a world of customisation I always assumed was in the realm of trial and error, or the master's art etc. With a few simple tools, we could all be doing this in games.

Interesting. Which makes me understand a bit of what BMW might have done with their S63 engine. When I first heard an F10 M5 I was really surprised by the sound. It has that typical 4 cylinder-ish note that you find in very rare V8 supercars, like Ferrari's, the Lotus Esprit, the mythical TVR Cerbera 4.2/4.5, among others.

 

[Griffith500]

Interesting. Which makes me understand a bit of what BMW might have done with their S63 engine. When I first heard an F10 M5 I was really surprised by the sound. It has that typical 4 cylinder-ish note that you find in very rare V8 supercars, like Ferrari's, the Lotus Esprit, the mythical TVR Cerbera 4.2/4.5, among others.

Aha, well that's an old concept that is basically the reverse of the V4 / V8 I described above. Look up "180 degree headers". Because the exhaust is in the V on BMWs new turbo V8s ("reverse flow heads" or "hot vee"), the cross-linking required is easier to achieve in much less space (also an old idea).

On the earlier twin twin-scroll turbo engines, the branches were equal length so it sounded very much like a standard four-cylinder, but the M5 / M6 allows the exhaust to be a lot like that found on many boxer 4s (see here, scroll down). So that's why the F10 M5 sort of has the boxer sound. This effect also "confirmed" via synthesis.

I've been hoping that hackers can open up some sound modding possibilities, because those V6 Red Bull and Senna cars do a similar thing with the subtleties in the differences in their sounds...

 

[BMWcrazy]

I hate online hackers as much as everyone, but I really love to have the ability to do engine swaps and add turbos on any cars.

I want my 80hp turbocharged Honda Today with nitrous.

 

[Robbks]

Toyota V12 into a 2000 Subaru Legacy (Liberty)

Why not..

 

[ProjectWHaT]

I don't mind the hybrids as long as you don't ruin the Seasonal event leaderboard and make uber unrealistic cars. Back in GT5, hybriding brought the game back to life. There were so much creativity flowing through the community.

 

[kolio]

Your argument is vague and invalid.
The government is a whole different story. You bought the game, it's yours! (I know people are gonna argue that "You bought the license to play, not the game." I find that rather annoying) You're not hacking into some vital organization stealing their money, you're hacking to have fun, and as I said in my last post, "If you don't have fun, why would you play it?". Furthermore, you didn't elaborate on why glitches are "fine".

Ok, the next person to hack unlimited money because they are not good enough and won't take the time to earn it correctly in the game has now possibly stolen money. You can pay for credits via micro transactions and now he does not have to buy credits using his real money.

Glitches are fine because it is PD's fault that they exist. It is not their fault that they get hacked. If you do not agree, please tell me a game or website that a professional hacker cannot hack.

 

[EF12345678]

Ok, the next person to hack unlimited money because they are not good enough and won't take the time to earn it correctly in the game has now possibly stolen money. You can pay for credits via micro transactions and now he does not have to buy credits using his real money.

 

[hardvibes]

And yet I can get one for 3 hours straight. (of course Its a total from my days of playtime)

I know. Before you insult me for having no life, thats why I said its a total. Even I didnt have time for that. So I play it 20minutes a day and now I can buy the 250 GTO among other things.

I'll edit my message at page 7. It wasn't clear enough, that's why some people misunderstood. We tend to jump to conclusions when we see the first part of a message. And me...I was also little bit drunk before going to bed.

I apologize.


Next time it would be better to say immediately "a total of 3 hours", not "3 hours straight"

 

[FoRiZon]

I'll edit my message at page 7. It wasn't clear enough, that's why some people misunderstood. We tend to jump to conclusions when we see the first part of a message. And me...I was also little bit drunk before going to bed.

I apologize.


Next time it would be better to say immediately "a total of 3 hours", not "3 hours straight"

Okay. Though what im really mean is that you can get that in 3 hours straight if you want to or cut into sections like me.

 

[John_Marsten]

If I could be bothered to play this game anymore. I would be rorting the GT bank for millions of credits!!!

 

[Stavingo]

well why couldnt they just use the stock parameters that pd allows.if a car only gets 400hp then use the 400.if you are skilled enough hybriding is not needed.

Because some stock parameters are way below what they should be.

So you agree with PD's handling of per say a premium S2000? The car doesn't even go beyond 600hp

Also to more so nitpick your argument, what about people who don't run ARB when they drift? I know of some real life drifters who drift with a crazy high suspension on the front and rear ARB is needed and the lowest setting they can go to is 1.

Hybriding =/= Lack of skill unless you're a troll

Hybriding = A lot of creativity

 

[Quakebass]

Your argument is vague and invalid.
The government is a whole different story. You bought the game, it's yours! (I know people are gonna argue that "You bought the license to play, not the game." I find that rather annoying) You're not hacking into some vital organization stealing their money, you're hacking to have fun, and as I said in my last post, "If you don't have fun, why would you play it?". Furthermore, you didn't elaborate on why glitches are "fine".

Part of it could be the license deals struck between PD and the manufacturers. Remember the F10 and F2007? They could only be driven against each other due to licensing, and if PD had just decided to allow mixed racing, that could put them on bad terms with Ferrari. The same may go for these modifications.

And as for credit hacking - in this iteration, PD set up a system where you can purchase in-game cash as a "time-saver" (I find it poorly implemented), but nonetheless, legally speaking, modding your save to increase your credit count can be seen as "theft", as you are giving yourself "content" that is normally achieved by means of a monetary purchase.

 

[Streeto]

that is normally achieved by means of a monetary purchase.

Well, no, those credits can be "achieved" for free by doing races so...

When people take payed content (of which there is none so far, it's all been free) and/or getting high spots in seasonals by using a hacked car; That's when it becomes a problem for PD.

If people want quick cash that's fine with me, or they wanna show their stanced cars to their friends, why not?

Peaceful modding like that is miles apart from "Destructive" modding.

 

[Downhill Dino]

The only actual issue with modifying beyond what the game allows players to do is if it breaks any license agreements that Polyphony has made. Such as racing the Ferrari F1 cars with other vehicles as said above. I'd take a bet and say that's the primary issue.

 

[JMoney]

I had a 1500 HP F-150 and a 26000 HP Impreza in GT5 before the update that took them away .

As long as the cars aren't being used online, who should care? Other players hacking their cars and money won't affect anyone else.

 

[Streeto]

I had a 1500 HP F-150 and a 26000 HP Impreza in GT5 before the update that took them away .

As long as the cars aren't being used online, who should care? Other players hacking their cars and money won't affect anyone else.

 

[Quakebass]

Well, no, those credits can be "achieved" for free by doing races so...

When people take payed content (of which there is none so far, it's all been free) and/or getting high spots in seasonals by using a hacked car; That's when it becomes a problem for PD.

If people want quick cash that's fine with me, or they wanna show their stanced cars to their friends, why not?

Peaceful modding like that is miles apart from "Destructive" modding.

You can earn your own credits, but it becomes a grey area when the monetization comes in to play. It's technically "lost profits" - speaking from the Sony/PD standpoint . I personally think the system is really screwy, not having events that give decent payouts, almost forcing you to pay to play. It should still be small payouts in the beginning of the career for reasonable/fun progression, but then as you move on to the longer and more difficult races and challenges payouts should grow so that most content can become affordable.

And again, with the "peaceful" modding, despite it being a realistic and harmless performance/visual change, it may still be something not covered in license agreements. I know for a fact that Ferrari is incredibly strict on modifications to their cars in real life; I'd imagine that that would carry over to electronic representations as well.

 

[FoRiZon]

He says not on online. So its up to him.

Besides, thanks to what we found the no wing feature in the first place?

 

[Outeke]

I'm not too worried (never am actually) but decrypting the save has been done 6 months ago already by some amazing skilled software developers.
The real issue here is the re-encrypt it after editing, which I haven't seen any proof of.

Until then...(months? years?) just relax and enjoy GT6 as it is.

 

[azidahaka]

As far as I understand it, all the savegames on PS3 (and all of the files on the PS3 outright, actually) are encrypted using Sony's keys etc. That was cracked eons ago, thanks to Sony's carelessness; in fact, it's not like hackers broke into the house, more like Sony left the key under a plant-pot nearby.

It was reported shortly after release that the data in the savegames held under Sony's encryption was further encrypted by PD's own method. This was also broken fairly quickly, but it was not shared and so was not taken advantage of. Until someone else appears to have independently broken it.

Additionally, PD added / changed the encryption of update files in one of the updates, the one that introduced the longer / 2-stage update installs (possibly only a coincidence, I don't know details). This has also been broken, but I doubt it's been shared either.

PD has supposedly also always encrypted all the data the game is using in memory; decrypting it on the fly. Given we have public tools for direct memory manipulation, it's safe to say this encryption has also been compromised.

That's 4 distinct encryption systems in the game. And I really don't know the half of it, so take all of that with a grain of salt.


I'm pretty sure it's a 308 engine. Same block etc., so the Thema intake and cam covers fit - they were used because it results in a lower profile engine.

The exhaust sound is easily explained if you look at photographs of the exhaust itself; the engine is effectively split in half down the middle to make two V4s, one branch of the exhaust services one V4, the other the other. Each virtual V4 happens to have the same firing intervals as one bank of a cross-plane V8.

E.g. flat-plane V8 is 1-8-3-6-4-5-2-7, a typical cross-plane V8 is 1-3-6-2-7-8-4-5. The colours refer to the two exhaust branch groupings; notice the timings are the same, if rotated slightly.

These are the kinds of cool things you get to find out when synthesising engine sounds!

Sinting not for pd i guess lol

Btw it would be cool if we could get the drivetrain swap back....

 

[dddsprayshop]

Wow, the fiat 500 oldschool with lambo or ferarri engine, One might forget, those cars drive fast but are dangerous on racetracks.Check the youtube clips.RaceDrivers are scared in those fiat's.
Also awesome the 2cv with ferarri 355 engine.

But to get back in this topic.

Grinding? 1,5 year ago i bought the ps3 with GT5, you had to grind to get 20.000.000 fast
or the birthday glitch/cheat to get the '67 '66 car ticket.and hope you get the 20million ferrari p330 or Ford MK?? or the jaguar. But before collecting the ticket, i did online gift to an other account until i had 10 tickets of each.Not possible anymore, no online features for GT5 ( in case you want to try it)

Try to get 20million now in GT5? It's a pain in the boingboing, no online events anymore, no 200% login.
If you bought a 20mil car before may 2014? credits zero, start again with a season events.
But what i miss, more credits if you used less pp then the max allowed for that event.
Why not bring that back?

Ontopic, hacking, the decription of the savegame.
Sure, the scene ( i use scene, i'm oldschool) can limit an editor that it only works for CFW console.
But i have some reasons to have an editor for OFW consoles.
-1. If engine swap is possible? swap the pp also, fiat 500 with x2014 engine? pp=980
-2. Remove the size restriction from wheels, wide rear tires on a tuned '66 beetle looks better then what we can do now (already posted that somewere else).Or is that a wheel swap?
-3. wheels swap on racecars.
-4. unlock all paintchips, why not, we have paid for the game.
-5. No credit editor, or put a max 5mil or 10mil credits change( but i don't support 10mil)
and i mean max, so if you have 2.5 mil? the change gives you 5mil, not 2.5+5=7.5.
This would also include: you have 6mil credits and edit credits? 6mil will change into 5mil, not 6+5=11mil.

I don't mind hacking or modding, i do mind abuse to cheat over other players.

 

[Stephanos82]

This is 2014, modding is what keeps pc sims going - why can't the same happen for consoles?