Gran Turismo Sport Physics Thread (Poll)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by super_gt, Aug 13, 2014.

?

Should we be able to adjust all four corners of the car separately,and tire air pressure?

  1. Yes

    188 vote(s)
    59.5%
  2. No

    13 vote(s)
    4.1%
  3. There are more important things to do for GT7

    115 vote(s)
    36.4%
  1. NLxAROSA

    NLxAROSA Premium

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    @Scaff already mentioned there is a difference between feel/actual driving and what is visualized in the spectator mode.
     
  2. super_gt

    super_gt

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    шведенкруз.png


    Schwedenkreuz
    Go over the curb/grass and you will crash in real life.



    Schwedenkreuz
    Brake too late or lift off in mid corner and your car will oversteer in real life.
    @Aderrrm did you lift off in mid corner?



    Klostertal
    Go over the grass with outside tires in this high speed corner and you will crash in real life.




    Yes,your car was unsettle a slightly,but not enough.
    The same corner in real life:



    https://youtu.be/1NrwhhMvMHw?t=8517


    Adenauer Forstthe
    This cars in GT Sport understeer in this corner.
    In real life if you go too fast in that corner the car will oversteer.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mlB6ENQIHU

    Passing over curb/grass and the car remains completely stable,completely unrealistic.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC6siAx-PI8



     
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  3. hardvibes

    hardvibes

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    In the live stream race I see the same old unrealistic collision physics (collisions between cars and with the guardrail)

    Is it possible that nobody cares about this?
     
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  4. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    What tires did you have on those cars?
     
  5. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    And a totally different car with totally different levels of grip and downforce.



    Neither of these situations are that digital, in that it will be 'this always happens'; in reality a quite frankly absurd number of variables will come into play in both of these situation.

    Plenty of people care, and plenty have already commented that it needs fixing (across a number of threads). Its the same for the movement of the cars on the spectator mode. They move in a completely odd way that isn't seen when you are driving or on single player replays.

    Then again it isn't finished you know......................
     
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  6. finnracer

    finnracer

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    I think the GTI was on CS and the Cup car felt like SH, although I didn't check exactly what it was running on. The MX-5 road car also had a little lift off oversteer when I drove it all aids off on CM's round the 'ring.
     
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  7. JamboGT

    JamboGT

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    This happened in this situation once so this is what should always happen regardless!
     
  8. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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  9. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    Does the racing community even care about this anymore to the extent that they would be put off? I have yet to see any sim racer with a reliable crash system let alone a realistic one.

    Sometimes I wonder how much engineering simulation is being implemented into these games.
     
  10. hardvibes

    hardvibes

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    We keep repeating this since GT5. This sentence always brought nothing but disappointment and you know it better than me.

    How do you think they would magically change the collision system for the release of GT Sport, after they already showed to us with the livestream race that nothing (or little) has changed?

    I'm sure GTR, iRacing, Assetto Corsa & Co. use a WAY better crash system than Gran Turismo.
    I play Forza Motorsport since 2009. Don't you think it has a realistic crash/collision system? If not, would you consider it exaggerated?
     
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  11. MarchingSaint

    MarchingSaint

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    Just my 5 cents here but... in my opinion correct collision phyics is useless without a proper damage representation, maybe they're saving up?
     
  12. hardvibes

    hardvibes

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    This is something for the purist, the elite, or whatever we would like to call them.

    I see nothing wrong with having correct collision physics with mechanical damage turned off, for a fun race....and most of the the players in Forza Motorsport hoppers and private lobbies (for example) would agree.
     
  13. Johnnypenso

    Johnnypenso Premium

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    Actually it's not. Proper collision physics is the base from which the visual representation flows. There is ample reason to have the proper physics and leave out the detailed visual representation as well. Framerates. It's not easy on the hardware to model dozens and dozens of pieces flying off the car in all different directions. If you want VR and/or rock solid framerates it's something you have to consider.
     
  14. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    Quite a difference exists between patching a released title and one that is still in development.

    I'm more that happy to be critical of any developer in regard to a finished released product, but doing so in regard to a development build and assuming it may not change is not the same at all.

    Now if its still the same when its released then yes you will see me be critical of it.

    I don't think anything changes via magic, nor have I said it will change.

    I have simply pointed out that the title is still in development, ergo it may well change for the final release. If it does then Kudos to PD, and if it doesn't then they will be rightly criticised.
     
  15. Spagetti69

    Spagetti69 Premium

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    Replays showing the cars moving differently from the driving perspective makes this impossible to judge.

    I trust those opinions of people who drove at the event so my optimism has risen slightly.

    I would like to see cars become more unsettled when attacking some of the kerbs at the ring. They seemed too stable.
     
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  16. super_gt

    super_gt

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    Sorry,I can't agree.
    I bet that if someone take street car in GT Sport and try the same situation like with Ferrari the end result will be the same(I need only 5 minutes with GT Sport to prove it)



    In reality I have never saw car(street or race car) to understeer in Adenauer Forst and crash.The cars always oversteer and crash,there are thousands of videos with car crash in YouTube for this particular corner.

    About the video with Lucas Ordoñez,do you claim that driving like him is realistic and the car will remain completely stable passing over this giant curbs?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  17. hardvibes

    hardvibes

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    I'm criticising them since the release of GT5 Prologue in 2008.


    Hoping for a clutch button for controller users. Never brought it.

    Hoping for a 900 degree rotation wheel in cockpit view. Never brought it. And I still remember the early GT5P video of the Ferrari F430 that had it. PD didn't get it completely right but...I liked it, better than nothing.

    Hoping for an immersive and realistic cockpit experience in-race, with all the possible vibrations and sounds of gravel hitting the car, transmission whine. Never got it. And I keep seeing and hearing the same old static and boring stuff.

    Hoping for a hood view. Never got it.

    Hoping for a good graphical damage. Never brought it. And I still remember how they tricked us with the very first GT5 E3 trailer (and the infamous dented STi rally car)

    Hoping for an extensive mechanical damage. Never brought it.

    Hoping for good sounds. Never brought them. We got a few ones for the redbull and senna cars in GT6 and that's it. Now with all these GT Sport video I still don't hear anything remotely close to those details (including what we should hear in the over run)

    Hoping for a livery editor. Never brought it in 9-10 years. We only got to paint our brake calipers and spoilers in 2014. That was, in my opinion, simply pathetic. And I still remember that 2006 Vision Gran Turismo conference held by Kazunori, and the details on screen. Only now we get the livery editor, in 2016.

    Hoping for a simple, fast to access multiplayer race. Never brought it. Too damn complicated and slow process.

    Hoping for tunings setup files to share easily and directly in Gran Turismo with other players. Never got them. Only GTPlanet could help with a section on this website.


    And the list goes on.


    E3, Tokyo Game Show, Gamescom, and other shows of these years. We always had those false hopes. We always thought “yeah yeah they’re keeping this for later”
    Call me pessimistic, but I don’t think they will change their tune, even less now that they already showed us a preview.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  18. Scaff

    Scaff Staff Emeritus

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    I had an hour and a half with GT Sport and that included a good few laps at the 'ring in a street car and no you can't do the same thing at all.

    But feel free to tell me I'm wrong.


    I've not said it was perfectly realistic, no one has. Its also not a finished build at all, something that you seem particularly keen to keep ignoring.

    Almost all areas I have been critical of as well, however none of that changes that it is a title still in development.

    One minor thing that you may like, you do now get gravel pinging the arches when you go off track.
     
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  19. super_gt

    super_gt

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    There are good posts here so if it is possible the moderators can merge both threads.
     
  20. GT6mebe

    GT6mebe

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    Looking at the movement they really don't. I could show you dozens of crashes in iRacing that look hilariously unrealistic.
     
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  21. hardvibes

    hardvibes

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    You mean iRacing or Forza?
     
  22. Tenacious D

    Tenacious D Premium

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    I don't think Forza is what I'd hold up as an example of anything, except an okay damage implementation and a great Livery Editor. It does do some things better than Gran Turismo, and those would be good to massage into GT's physics. But I see it as the same but different. I prefer racing in Gran Turismo. Just about every racing and rally sim is better than GT, Forza and PCARS too.

    If you want to see great collision kinetics, look at Live For Speed. It is amazing. Even as the cars deform like putty or cardboard. :p

    Anyway, I said yes. Why not, as a feature is a feature. But really, that sort of thing should be dead last on the team's To Do list.
     
  23. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    I agree on LFS, it's old, but it has great collision physics, and the tire model is awesome for it's age ( camber works as it should too with temp across tire useful for dialing it )
     
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  24. Saidur_Ali

    Saidur_Ali

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    @super_gt What do you think to this crash by a GT Academy champion?:
     
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  25. Terronium-12

    Terronium-12 Moderator

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    Physics threads have been merged.
     
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  26. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    I hope that is the case. Because there is no point having great FFB if the physics are still out of whack. Having said that it's weird that what is seen on replays are =/= what is seen when driving. You can't really use replays to analyze your driving and improve anymore. Maybe @Scaff can clarify what he means by "different" and whether this is going to be fixed come release day?

    This has never been an issue with any previous GTs, so it's perplexing that driving and replays are suddenly not 1:1.
     
  27. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Replay is not spectator mode. I think it's more to do with the netcode as you watch live online races, it has been issue in GT5/6 with online races when race quality and network causing cars to be shown inaccurately. Each driver own replay recorded after the race has no issue, but other driver may be erratic as it was made from data being sent/received in the network. With spectator mode, one is watching online race live, similar to GT5/6 watch mode, there are some odd car movements depending on the race quality settings, and network performance.

    The London event was on LAN mode, so there should be no lag issue that may reduce the race quality ( data being sent and how other cars being visualized ), the spectator mode is still a WIP, looking at how cars are shown being driven. Maybe GTP staff that do LAN races on GT5/6 can share if such issue at the London event could happen as well on GT5/6 LAN race ?
     
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  28. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    That makes more sense. In that case there's still hope yet. I still don't expect GT to be on the level of PC sims, but at least get rid of the overdamped suspension, unrealistic slip angles and fix high speed aero and it should be good enough.
     
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  29. Ridox2JZGTE

    Ridox2JZGTE

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    Aero is one that @Scaff impressed with when driving the cars, have you read his impression posted on GTS general thread, I think was on page 406.
     
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  30. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    Yeah I've read his impressions. Said so in my first post (quoted at the top of this page). It does look like an improvement, the question is how much and is it enough to compete with the latest sims?